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Posted: 11/3/2001 2:53:14 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 11/8/2001 2:29:11 AM EDT by GWIGG]
Before I begin, I am posting this because I want to hear your thoughts, comments, and advice. Friday afternoon someone broke into my house and tried to get in my safe. They were unsuccessful in getting in the safe but demolished the handle and combo dial. Now In the spare bedroom I had 3 junk guns in the closet, in my Master bedroom I had 4 junk guns in the closet. I have no extra storage for them yet. The only one of those stolen was a standard 10-22 with a cheap Simmons scope. Looking at the photo's below, please tell me if you think I could possibly have a new lockset installed. I would hate to have to buy a new gun safe right now. Especially right before Christmas. Whoever did this broke into my house with the sole intention of breaking into my safe. They went in with heavy enough tools to bend the corner of the door, so it definitely was not just a by chance burglary. Nothing else was stolen. Nothing else was even touched for that matter. This is the sight I saw when I first walked in the room. [img]http://wsphotofews.excite.com/009/Ah/OL/Mn/wL74275.jpg[/img] This is the front of the safe where the dial and handle once was. [img]http://wsphotofews.excite.com/009/Ah/OL/Mn/wE23460.jpg[/img] This is the upper left hand corner of the door where they got behind it slightly enough to bend it out about a 1/4" [img]http://wsphotofews.excite.com/008/VH/9x/3y/x044303.jpg[/img] This is the lower right hand hinge. [img]http://wsphotofews.excite.com/017/qq/I4/Hx/wZ56330.jpg[/img] And last but not least a close up of where the combo dial used to be. [img]http://wsphotofews.excite.com/036/Ad/2U/O6/wQ52541.jpg[/img] Now I have the handle, but cannot find the dial or its shroud. I'm not sure why but that makes me paranoid. I swear I've looked everywhere for it, I think they took it with them. But why? Again I would appreciate any comments, advice any of you might have.
Link Posted: 11/3/2001 2:56:24 PM EDT
...look at your receipt. Many safe manufactures provide warranties that cover damages.
Link Posted: 11/3/2001 2:58:30 PM EDT
Link Posted: 11/3/2001 2:59:21 PM EDT
Good Grief man! someone REALLY wanted into your gun safe! Thank god they were too ignorant to do it tho! I can't imagine why they'd want to take the dial either!?! souvenier perhaps? Have you thought about calling a locksmith to see if he could help you out? Or it might have to be returned to the manufacturer to be repaired, but then again you still gotta get the thing open before you could send it back to them. Good luck
Link Posted: 11/3/2001 2:59:44 PM EDT
Link Posted: 11/3/2001 3:03:04 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 11/3/2001 2:56:41 PM EDT by M4Madness]
Link Posted: 11/3/2001 3:03:59 PM EDT
You got really lucky. I know of three gun safes that have been taken in lieu of just breaking them open. The suspect must not have a truck or they would have taken it. BTW: never, ever put your safe against an outside wall.
Link Posted: 11/3/2001 3:04:26 PM EDT
I know who it is and so does the Sheriffs Dept. but its got to be proven. You know how that is.
Link Posted: 11/3/2001 3:08:15 PM EDT
What Brand and model is that safe? Alex
Link Posted: 11/3/2001 3:12:29 PM EDT
I think I would find out if those filthy freaking rat bastards left any fingerprints. If that doesn't pan out you might have to do your own investigating. That's one of the down sides of having a gun collection, you enjoying showing select people your goodies but you never know who else they will tell. Like Winston_Wolf said, check with the safe manufacturer about warranty & repair & then your home owners insurance. Good luck!!! ColtShorty GOA KABA COA JPFO SAF NRA "I won't be wronged, I won't be insulted and I won't be laid a hand on. I don't do these things to other people and I require the same from them."
Link Posted: 11/3/2001 3:13:02 PM EDT
Probably a good idea to email Gwigg ideas on how to get into his safe now (if he hasn't already). Don't want to give "tha thuggs" any ideas. Sorry to hear about this man. I got rippped off once. Luckily no guns where involved.
Link Posted: 11/3/2001 3:13:10 PM EDT
It's a Morgan fort w/fire lining. Had a S&G II combo lock on it. And it's locked up tight, door won't budge. But thats why I paid the bucks for it right!
Link Posted: 11/3/2001 3:17:37 PM EDT
Originally Posted By GWIGG: It's a Morgan fort w/fire lining. Had a S&G II combo lock on it. And it's locked up tight, door won't budge. But thats why I paid the bucks for it right!
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Thanks! After seeing that a determined thief couldn't get that thing open is a testament to the quality of that safe. Alex
Link Posted: 11/3/2001 3:17:42 PM EDT
I think that a new lock set can be installed. The one on my safe was sheared off during delivery in a manner similar to yours. Get a good locksmith, preferably one who specializes in home security items, and he can square you away.
Link Posted: 11/3/2001 3:20:26 PM EDT
That's one of the down sides of having a gun collection, you enjoying showing select people your goodies but you never know who else they will tell.
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As one of my main lines of defense it [b]cannot be repeated often enough.[b/] [b]Don't discuss your weapons collection with anyone you can't trust[/b] BTW, getting ripped off was what really got me into guns/self defense. All they got was a few grand of cds and some knives/swords.
Link Posted: 11/3/2001 3:28:54 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Ghettoblaster:
That's one of the down sides of having a gun collection, you enjoying showing select people your goodies but you never know who else they will tell.
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As one of my main lines of defense it [b]cannot be repeated often enough.[b/] [b]Don't discuss your weapons collection with anyone you can't trust[/b] BTW, getting ripped off was what really got me into guns/self defense. All they got was a few grand of cds and some knives/swords.
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I agree completely. This person was one of my best friends about 11 yrs ago. We parted ways because he helped me get into a lot of trouble. He showed up at my home about 3 weeks ago. He was telling me he was off drugs now, don't get in trouble anymore, and has his own painting business. We were talking about deer hunting and I went to the safe to show him one of my hunting rifles. He saw the contents of my safe then tried to get me to sell him one of my handguns. I refused. And yes I do feel like an idiot now, but I never expected that low life piece of dog shit to do this. You live and you learn.
Link Posted: 11/3/2001 3:39:56 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 11/3/2001 3:34:15 PM EDT by RBAD]
I just called up my insurance agent. He said that my current policy would cover the replacement of the safe AND the opening of it by a qualified safe/locksmith. We have a Chubb Masterpiece plan for the house. It was a bit pricey, but covers alot. Did you check w/ your insurance company yet? Good luck George ! Thank God that the safe stopped that bastard. Also... Do you have a good security system? If not, you should really invest in a good quality (Radionics makes great stuff) MONITORED alarm system. "Scare 'em away before they can do any damage" Oops... forgot to mention: If you are NOT covered for the loss and need to get in quickly, lemme know via e-mail and I'll send you a drill template for the lock and a few carbide bits.
Link Posted: 11/3/2001 3:55:25 PM EDT
Yes, I am "afraid" of most of my step family knowing I have anything except a pistol because most of them are junkies or some sort of drug addict (I HAVE NO CONTROL OVER THIS!!!). I have seen the abyssmal depths that people will reach when doing drugs and will avoid them as much as possible. My "straight" (meaning non "gun nut") relatives call me paranoid, but I tell them the same thing. If you tell a junkie you have guns, you're basically telling them they won the lottery, because weapons are as good as gold to a druggie, sadly. Oh, yeah. When you repair your safe, change the location!
Link Posted: 11/3/2001 4:20:20 PM EDT
Gwigg, I hate to be a Pessimist, but: The thieves know you have a safe, and, because of the cheap guns in the closet, will assume you have "the good stuff" in it. So, there is a strong possibility of one of two things happening-- 1. They will be back to try again when they "figure out" what they did wrong or the right way to open it up. 2. They will (if they are greedy/desperate enough) come to you when you are home and try to get you to open the safe under duress. So, my suggestion to you would be to arm yourself at all times, and have something close even at night, in case of a home invasion. Have a firearm in the car in case you come home to them trying again. Good luck, and I sincerely hope it doesn't happen to you again, but it pays to be careful
Link Posted: 11/3/2001 4:30:14 PM EDT
So, there is a strong possibility of one of two things happening-- 1. They will be back to try again when they "figure out" what they did wrong or the right way to open it up. 2. They will (if they are greedy/desperate enough) come to you when you are home and try to get you to open the safe under duress. So, my suggestion to you would be to arm yourself at all times, and have something close even at night, in case of a home invasion. Have a firearm in the car in case you come home to them trying again. Good luck, and I sincerely hope it doesn't happen to you again, but it pays to be careful
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Sound advice!
Link Posted: 11/3/2001 4:40:51 PM EDT
Maybe its time for a small security system using a pressure switch on the door and the keypad/bypass hidden somewhere (like below the bed or behind the couch). Make sure you get one thats independant of your current system, and that it is setup to call the cops. Kharn
Link Posted: 11/3/2001 5:42:01 PM EDT
Time to buy a big dog for when they come back for round 2!
Link Posted: 11/3/2001 5:53:27 PM EDT
Link Posted: 11/3/2001 5:54:41 PM EDT
Sorry for your loss - hope you get the S.O.B!! Safe did its job - took longer/more effort to enter than bad guy had a stomach for!! Hope that sucker is BOLTED to the floor! Discourages the "take the whole thing" bunch. Mine isn't - but it is over 6000 LB so I am not real concerned they will haul it off!!
Link Posted: 11/3/2001 5:55:10 PM EDT
Link Posted: 11/3/2001 6:14:47 PM EDT
Man I'm so sorry for you, but glad it turned out ok all things considered. I want a Morgan safe now really bad.
Link Posted: 11/3/2001 6:39:15 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 11/3/2001 6:34:25 PM EDT by Ghettoblaster]
Gwigg, given what the POS was after and the time of year (holidays), you can bet he'll be back. Carry a loaded weapon (if legally) in your vehicle. If you can't carry it loaded, carry it to the best of your legal knowledge in your vehicle. Even if unloaded in your trunk and you have to "tact. load" it every night in the drive way before you go inside.
Link Posted: 11/3/2001 6:43:42 PM EDT
Be prepared, for getting robbed is not akin to a lightning strike, you may indeed be struck twice...
Link Posted: 11/3/2001 7:14:44 PM EDT
I can't tell you how glad I am that your safe could stand up. Not just for you,thing of what the antis would say about this. If they sold your guns to somebody and they killed with them the f*ing antis would be on TV for weeks talking about how poeple having gunin the home puts more guns on the street and so on.
Link Posted: 11/3/2001 8:36:26 PM EDT
Yeah, arm yourself and stay armed. I guess there's a lesson in this for me -- I usually keep EVERYTHING locked away unless I am actively carrying or getting ready for the range. If someone broke my safe's lock, I would be disarmed until a locksmith opened it. . . .
Link Posted: 11/3/2001 11:57:29 PM EDT
Well if you want to make sure that they will not get your weapons and be in any condition to use them do this. After you get the safe fixed, put a few pounds of black powder twenty pounds should be just right or even smokeless power might work out. Then if they try to cut their way in with a torch or anything else that causes hot sparks the powder will blow up the safe, and the thieves will never steal anything again. By the way I read somewhere that this has already happened and a couple pieces of dog doo couldn’t get into safe the first time so they took the entire safe the next time and tried to cut into it. Lets just say that they will never do any more crimes and the police were picking up the pieces of their bodies for a while. The only bad thing is the guns were destroyed. And most definitely watch out that they do not return. And don’t let anyone know you had the powder in the safe for that purpose, it would probably be consider a booby trap, but just keeping it in their for safety's sake, nothing wrong or illegal about that. Check your state laws just to be sure.
Link Posted: 11/4/2001 2:41:19 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 11/4/2001 2:39:49 AM EDT by Sodie]
Damn, I've always wondered how well these safes hold up. Your pictures answer that question. I am so glad I have a big ass safe. One thing that I did, primarily for earthquakes, is drill a hole in the back of the safe and run a 3/8" x 5" lug into the wall studs. If they can't break in and can't cart it away, you're guns and valuables will be secure. Oh, I forgot to add... That thief didn't know what he was doing. Attacking those massive hinges won't do squat. Even if you cut them off, there are permanent 3/4" lugs on the inside that fully lock the door when closed and can't be retracted.
Link Posted: 11/4/2001 4:17:38 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 11/4/2001 5:27:54 AM EDT by Hawkeye1]
Link Posted: 11/4/2001 5:11:28 AM EDT
One other little tidbit of advice – Explosive warning stickers... Even if you get somebody with the moxy to drill in the right place, the stickers are going to give him major 'pause'. Why crack it if it's just gonna blow up in your face? [:)]
Link Posted: 11/4/2001 5:28:15 AM EDT
I'll repeat some other advice. Get a safe before you buy anything else. I know they are expensive but why risk it? I'm glad your lose was minimal GWIGG What is Right shall always Triumph!
Link Posted: 11/4/2001 5:29:57 AM EDT
gwigg, i'm glad your safe held up and did its' job! best of luck eith the insurance company, i'm sure they will come thru for you. and i hope the leo's lifted prints to help convict the dirtbag that did this to you. guys, i can't overemphasize the real need all of us have for a proper safe. even those in apartments and trailers can be protected. just go to a local fab shop and have them build you a 3/16" or 1/4" thich sheet steel box sized to your needs. all welded construction, with a hidden internal, full length piano hinge and a set of good weld on hasps. bolt the thing down securely in a closet where pry space/hammer swing room is at a minumum.
Link Posted: 11/4/2001 5:55:38 AM EDT
Let me reiterate that I know the person who did this to me. Him and his brother broke into my house and did this. I can't prove it, but I have absolutely no doubt at all in my mind and in my heart. All the pieces fit together to well, as far as the areas searched and not searched and other evidence. However, the deputy without hard evidence can't bring charges up. Soooooo I have to get into my safe and get the serial numbers for the 10-22 he stole and hopefully track it down. I appreciate all the advice and comments. You know its not all about the fact of the damage and $$$. It's the fact that my home, my refuge, my sanctity has been invaded. That bothers me 10x more than the money. Hell my wife was so upset she cried. And that pissed me off. When my wife don't feel safe in her own house that really fucking pisses me off. But what can you do? I will look into security systems and already have a plan to place a simple bar in the window preventing it from being pried open. (I know if they want in they'll get in) It would make me feel better anyway. I'm just hoping that a locksmith can replace the lock on my safe so I don't have to buy another one right now. I'll go see one Monday morning and see what will happen. Don't the NRA provide some kind of theft insurance for its members? Does anyone know what I'm talking about?
Link Posted: 11/4/2001 5:59:04 AM EDT
Gwigg: The NRA limit is $1000 if you just pay for your NRA membership, you get more if you pay more. Kharn
Link Posted: 11/4/2001 6:00:27 AM EDT
Thanks Kharn.
Link Posted: 11/4/2001 6:09:52 AM EDT
Hey Gwigg. I am not enough of a computer nerd to properly describe this, but I understand that for a few hundred dollars, you can have a computer camera and memory device which will digitally capture the image of anyone coming into the room. Hide this digital computer camera in your safe-room, and just "rewind" it each day the thieves don't come. When the criminals do show up, hand pictures to cops and enjoy.
Link Posted: 11/4/2001 6:32:23 AM EDT
Contact the company that makes your safe, tell them what a happy customer you are and how well their product performed. I'm sure they will be happy to help you with the repair for the great PR. I know how you feel about being "violated". When my wife was pregnent with our first child my car was broken into twice(it was parked in front of our bedroom window). The second call to the police brought a friend of mine to answer the call. I told him that I had wired the car and the house with alarm systems, and that the next time I called him to be sure to bring the coroner along for the ride. I had a good idea about the people that had been braking into my car(I believe it was the people @ the local stereo shop) and I relayed the same message to them. I was suprised to have no more problems. If you know the scumbags that did this, put the fear of god into them!
Link Posted: 11/4/2001 10:57:11 AM EDT
Gwigg, it sounds like you have the right suspects. Having been a Police Officer for over 20 years, with the last 15 years dealing with drug investigations, sounds like a typical burglary done by an acquaintance, or friend. You didn't mention if they brought a tool or tools with them or used something from your house. If they brought the tools with them, the burglars knew the safe was in the house-they had been there before. Most burglars just kick in the door or use some type of prybar-they like to travel light. Some even leave the pry bar or other tools behind (if it cannot be traced to them). Have found suspects near business burglary with prybar and large sum of money. A silicon cast of the pry marks on the door matched up to the prybar-I got a conviction. At any rate sounds like they targeted your safe. Most safe companies will bend over backwards to assist you, but they will probably not tell you how to open your safe, but they will tell a bonded locksmith or the authorized dealer in your area. I have ran accross this recently. Most safe manufactures like to hear about how there product saved your gun collections-good advertising, they also like pictures too. A good safe manufacture also sends the pictures to there R&D dept., but it sounds the safe did exactly what it was supposed to do, keep the burglary out. Some of the safes are rated by UL with a Torch and Tool rating on how many minutes it takes to get in the safe. That's why most people have at least a local burglar alarm which will limit the time a burglar has to open a safe before a neighbor comes over to investigate. The biggest fear of a burglar (besides the fear of being caught or shot) is someone seeing them at the scene of the crime. Hope you are able to get enough evidence to prosecute them. AMOS
Link Posted: 11/4/2001 12:38:38 PM EDT
Call up the safe company. Tell 'em all about what transpired and point them to this thread. They might really like to capitalize on the free publicity and help you out !!
Link Posted: 11/4/2001 12:51:17 PM EDT
Originally Posted By AMOS: Gwigg, it sounds like you have the right suspects. Having been a Police Officer for over 20 years, with the last 15 years dealing with drug investigations, sounds like a typical burglary done by an acquaintance, or friend. You didn't mention if they brought a tool or tools with them or used something from your house. If they brought the tools with them, the burglars knew the safe was in the house-they had been there before. Most burglars just kick in the door or use some type of prybar-they like to travel light. Some even leave the pry bar or other tools behind (if it cannot be traced to them). Have found suspects near business burglary with prybar and large sum of money. A silicon cast of the pry marks on the door matched up to the prybar-I got a conviction. At any rate sounds like they targeted your safe. Most safe companies will bend over backwards to assist you, but they will probably not tell you how to open your safe, but they will tell a bonded locksmith or the authorized dealer in your area. I have ran accross this recently. Most safe manufactures like to hear about how there product saved your gun collections-good advertising, they also like pictures too. A good safe manufacture also sends the pictures to there R&D dept., but it sounds the safe did exactly what it was supposed to do, keep the burglary out. Some of the safes are rated by UL with a Torch and Tool rating on how many minutes it takes to get in the safe. That's why most people have at least a local burglar alarm which will limit the time a burglar has to open a safe before a neighbor comes over to investigate. The biggest fear of a burglar (besides the fear of being caught or shot) is someone seeing them at the scene of the crime. Hope you are able to get enough evidence to prosecute them. AMOS
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He definately brought tools with him. I had nothing at all in the house that would have been strong enough to bend out the upper left hand corner like it was. I will contact the safe co. And also the NRA and see if the insurance will cover at least the 10-22 I lost. Maybe they help with the safe?
Link Posted: 11/4/2001 12:57:52 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 11/4/2001 4:22:30 PM EDT by ARlady]
[blue]i may be overstepping my bounds here, and if i am, i'll add back the text. i've saved it to a word document, just in case i'm wrong. fan, i'm not sure why you would post something along this lines. at the very least it's stupid. and i think it crosses that line of legal/illegal. for these and a few other reasons, i'm editing out your information. --ARlady[/blue]
Link Posted: 11/4/2001 1:29:29 PM EDT
Uh, gee, thanks... I sure gwigg will not sleep better at night knowing that you, on this forum, JUST TOLD THE THEIVES HOW TO GET INTO THE SAFE! What a maroon.
Link Posted: 11/4/2001 3:53:40 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 11/4/2001 7:47:29 PM EDT by WSmac]
gwigg, it might help if you could locate the tools. Depending on the paint from the safe, and what they did with the tools afterwards, there may still be paint from your safe on the tools. The problem is finding the tools with the paint still on them, and being able to prove they are owned by the suspects. Depending on your relationship with them and their level of intelligence, you might ask if you could drop by to borrow a prybar (assuming that's what they used). When you see their's, check for paint but explain that it's not quite the right tool for the job and leave it with them. You could notify police and hope there would be cause to search them (such as if you could trace the 10/22 to them). The best way of course is if the police had a reason to stop their car and the tools were inside with them[;)]. Perhaps you would find a use for the tools after all and have them drop by with them. Gosh, what luck to have a concerned citizen drop a dime from a payphone near their house, to the police about suspicious males in a "______ car heading ______ direction, saw them putting ______ inside the car, maybe the trunk". Aww forget it! Sounds too much like a movie, probably would never work, except for pissed-off neighbors, and ex-spouses. I'm back to tell you to be careful about putting blocks in the window frames, it is a real fire safety issue if you or your family needs to escape. I'd also look into a video security system. If you have the money, buy a seperate vcr and put it in a hidden location. You can buy cameras that work on motion. You can also buy pinhole cameras for about $100-$200. They get pretty hot so be careful where you put them (although I did see one in a teddy once {bear that is}) Check with [url]www.x10.com[/url] for starters, there are other outfits around, do a search on the web. Someone I know uses the x10 in his business and likes it alot. WSmac
Link Posted: 11/4/2001 4:12:10 PM EDT
So AR15fan, are you a profesional thief or do you just like to post on the freakin' internet how to break into the safes that most of us own! I hope you were not thinking, otherwise your a flippin' idiot! edit your post!!!!!!!!
Link Posted: 11/4/2001 4:16:54 PM EDT
Link Posted: 11/4/2001 4:18:04 PM EDT
Gwigg, is there anywhere else you can store your guns for a while. You can be sure he will be back with heavier equipment. I would tell him that since someone broke in you sold all your guns and used the money to make a large payment on his house. NEVER EVER have him back in your home again! I like the dog idea and camera idea as well. He will most likely be back. I would keep a weapon very close to you at all time. The camera is something I will look into. As far as having the safe just taken with the guns, that is why I bought a BIG one, the harder it is to move the better. That is also why I put it in the basement, now the have to move 1500 lbs (and major bulk) upstairs!! Ha ha. Why not put it on an outside wall, will they just pull it throught the wall or something?
Link Posted: 11/4/2001 4:32:14 PM EDT
Thank you ARlady!!!
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