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Posted: 7/18/2008 10:32:09 AM EDT
Heading up to our ranch today, gonna stay for the weekend. My dad got a Raven .25ACP pistol, effectively for free, and I figured I might as well see if the POS will even work. I've tried dry-firing it before and two out of three times it won't cock when I rack the slide and pull the trigger. I think that's mostly because it's so tiny that I have a hard time pulling the slide back all the way and not any mechanical deficiency in the pistol itself.

Anyway, might as well have a throw-down gun that's been fired before, right? I'll take pics and review the little piece of crap's performance, assuming it actually fires and doesn't explode in my hands.

Wish me luck.
Link Posted: 7/18/2008 10:33:40 AM EDT
Dibs on guns.
Link Posted: 7/18/2008 10:33:55 AM EDT
I predict you'll soon be a team member on ravenforum.com and collecting them.
Link Posted: 7/18/2008 10:37:29 AM EDT
Do you have



and a

Link Posted: 7/18/2008 10:39:14 AM EDT
Our example has a nickel finish, a leather holster, and a single 6-rnd magazine.

I've looked at the .25ACP ammo and I'm less than impressed. There's barely room in the back of the cartridge for the primer. And the bullets are just... hee hee.

Anyway, we'll see if it shoots reliably, what sort of general accuracy it gets, etc. I told my dad what a POS it was when he came home with it (he traded his Taurus revolver to a friend who is disabled and can barely afford to feed himself; he wanted a gun for self-protection, so my dad gave him the Taurus. He insisted on a fair trade and gave him two shotguns, including one from the Civil War era, a muzzleloaded pistol, and the Raven.) and recommended that he just get rid of it at the next gun show, and he agreed.

Then later I had to explain to him what a throw-down gun was since it came up in a conversation and now he insists on keeping the Raven. Those two events may be related.
Link Posted: 7/18/2008 10:42:44 AM EDT
25ACP is centerfire 22LR for all practical purposes. Can you imagine handloading those tiny rounds?
Link Posted: 7/18/2008 10:53:29 AM EDT
A raven .25 is an ok gun. I bought one at a gun show for $50.00. Ammos is kind of pricey for a small round.
Fired one box of blazer ammo thought it. 3 ftf out of 50 rounds shot. Sold the gun to a friend the next weekend for $100.
Overall, it was a fun little gun.
Link Posted: 7/18/2008 10:53:59 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 7/18/2008 10:55:20 AM EDT by 1IV]
It will shoot almost exactly 1000 rounds before it breaks.

Ask me how I know......

I had a guy come in with one and he was shooting it until failure. It ate 18 boxes of 25 befor the slide had a visible crack. It never jammed.
Link Posted: 7/18/2008 10:55:35 AM EDT
bring yer kevlar... and a face shield........and some gloves

post pics of your bloody mess please
Link Posted: 7/18/2008 11:03:27 AM EDT

Originally Posted By fsk1290:
bring yer kevlar... and a face shield........and some gloves

post pics of your bloody mess please


+1 Pics of group/results/damage.
Link Posted: 7/18/2008 11:04:50 AM EDT
Has anyone got through a complete magazine without a malfunction?
Link Posted: 7/18/2008 11:05:40 AM EDT
I have a Raven. It is my second one.
The first one I bought was the first handgun I ever bought as an adult. As a kid, I owned handguns since age 9, but I had never purchased one myself. So, on my 21st birthday, I wanted to exercise my right to purchase a handgun. Only problem was, I didn't have any money. However, I had actually been thinking about buying some kind of small handgun like you see on the TV police shows but I didn't know anybody that owned one. So, I showed up to the dealer with something like a hundred bucks and bought a nickel finished Raven.
I didn't know anything about the Raven, or .25 Autos. This was LONG before the internet, so I didn't have anyone telling me it was a POS. I was quite pleased with my purchase. I took the stocks off of it and refinished them. I bought an outside the belt holster for it. And, I shot it quite a bit. Again, nobody was around to tell me it wasn't accurate, nobody was around to tell me the sights were useless, so I shot it and took it seriously. And, since I didn't listen to the internet bullshitters, it shot fine. One day I went out shooting with some other guys from the community college I was going to at the time. I started setting up shotgun shells on a split rail fence to shoot at. One of the guys said, What the hell are you doing ? There is no fucking way you are going to hit those with that POS pistol you got. I'll bet you $20 you can't hit one of them.
I was kind of shocked because the thought of not being able to hit them had never entered my mind. I had run perhaps 500 rounds through my pistol and I knew beyond a shadow of a doubt that I could easily hit them. So, I walked back about 10 yards and hit five out of five after drawing from the holster. I almost could't take the $20 because at the time, I considered that a HUGE amount of money. I could drink draft beer all weekend for $20.
Long story even longer. The Raven I had worked fine. It was reasonably accurate. And, it was one of my first lessons that most people who talk about guns don't know their ass from a hole in the ground.
FWIW: I have never fired the Raven I presently own. I own over 75 handguns and just bought the Raven for nostalgia. I think it was like $30.


While I am on a roll, here's another quick Raven story. I bought a box of ammo in .25 ACP for my Raven. I had read about it in a gun magazine. The bullets were hollow points but they had a ball bearing in the nose of the bullet to make the bullet expand as the BB is driven back into the lead bullet upon impact. The magazine article made this ammo out to be something just short of a nuclear bomb. So, I rushed down to the store and bought a box on payday. That night, about 0200 I was driving home from the bar after last call and came upon a possum crossing the road. They walk accross the road at a very leisurely pace. They are in no hurry at all and don't give a shit that cars are coming. So I stopped, dug under the seat for my Raven loaded with these awsome hollow points. I rested my hands on the rear view mirror, gave just the right amount of lead and shot the possum right behind the front shoulder. The possum didn't flinch. It didn't run or even speed up. It acted like it didn't even care. So I pumped two more rounds in the same place. I know they were good hits because I could see it bleeding. But, it not only didn't kill the possum, it didn't even look like it hurt the possum. I went out there the next day in the light and there was no dead possum to be found. In my almost 30 years of experience as a paramedic, I have learned that this performance is typical of the .25 ACP.
Link Posted: 7/18/2008 11:11:39 AM EDT
I have one and its a good ankle holster gun... But I dont have ankles.
Link Posted: 7/18/2008 11:12:52 AM EDT
Link Posted: 7/18/2008 11:13:13 AM EDT

Originally Posted By 70satvert:
Dibs on guns.


dibs on optics.
Link Posted: 7/18/2008 11:13:36 AM EDT

Originally Posted By 1911greg:
Has anyone got through a complete magazine without a malfunction?


Watched my friend shoot his at the range, my Beretta 21A Minx ran better than the Raven...
Link Posted: 7/18/2008 11:14:09 AM EDT
I remember an article of one growing up.(my mom had one) Bar fight in Spokane someone was shot in the head 7 times and the guy who was shot lived. He was taken to the hospital with multiple concussions..
Link Posted: 7/18/2008 11:14:16 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 7/18/2008 11:15:13 AM EDT by drunkintoaster]

Originally Posted By david_g17:

Originally Posted By 70satvert:
Dibs on guns.


dibs on optics.


dibs on ammo
Link Posted: 7/18/2008 11:14:48 AM EDT
My dad has a Sterling Arms .22 LR pistol. I predict that the Raven will probably be as accurate, reliable, and fun to shoot as his Sterling.

Link Posted: 7/18/2008 11:20:07 AM EDT
My first handgun was also a Raven - Nickle finish with those crappy bare wood grips. I, too, never had any problems with failures to feed, fire, or eject. Some years later, I went on to shoot a local police qualification course with it, and qualified easily. I still had less than 1000 rounds through it, though, when the firing pin broke. I hadn't bought a new firing pin yet, and my house was broken into. The Raven was among the items stolen. I never bought another, so now I'm Raven-less.

Even to this day, I hope fervently that the burglar who stole it never test-fired it, got into a scrape later on, relied on it for self-defense, and came to a bad end when the broken firing pin refused to make it fire...
Link Posted: 7/18/2008 11:20:35 AM EDT

Originally Posted By onthedgeofmyseat:
I remember an article of one growing up.(my mom had one) Bar fight in Spokane someone was shot in the head 7 times and the guy who was shot lived. He was taken to the hospital with multiple concussions..


I remember one of the Arfcom paramedics telling about a black guy who got shot in the arm repeatedly by a wheelchair-bound 88 armed with a .25ACP pistol.

When he removed the guy's sleeve to start taking out bullets, most of them fell out.

I'm taking my leather gloves and gas mask. Probably not going to wear the mask as I can't see shit without my glasses.

And I'm off!
Link Posted: 7/18/2008 11:20:44 AM EDT
When I was in High School, a friend of mine's dad - a cop - had a raven as a backup gun. I was over at his house one day and my friend was being a smart ass "hey want to see my dad's gun?" I thought I'd teach him a lesson.

I can't remember exactly now, but I know that pushing the button to the rear of the slide disassembles the pistol. So I take hold of the thing, rack the slide back, pressing the button and the thing falls apart in my hands. I hold the pieces up to him with a shocked look and said "Oh no! dude it just fell apart!"

I thought he was going to pass out...

It went right back together no problem, I had prior experience with Ravens, but that's the last time he messed with his dad's shit... good thing too, he had no business handling anything dangerous.

Was funny as hell to me at the time...
Link Posted: 7/18/2008 11:32:45 AM EDT
While we laugh at the Raven (rightfully so) I wouldn't sneez at the .25,I just read a book on the Irish mob back in the 80's and all they used was .25's and .32's,mind they were good makes like Barretta's Colt's Etc.

Small guns,yes,but they'll still make you quite dead
Link Posted: 7/18/2008 11:36:29 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Swindle1984:
I'm gonna shoot a Raven .25ACP this weekend


You only think you are.

Please, Prove Me Wrong.
Link Posted: 7/18/2008 11:44:41 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Kronos2720:
While we laugh at the Raven (rightfully so) I wouldn't sneez at the .25,I just read a book on the Irish mob back in the 80's and all they used was .25's and .32's,mind they were good makes like Barretta's Colt's Etc.

Small guns,yes,but they'll still make you quite dead


The only one-shot-stop I've ever actually witnessed came when my two drunk neighbors had a fight at a bar one night. One of them was gonna kick the other one's ass, so the other one pulled out his Raven (speaking of Ravens) and fired one shot into the aggressor's chest. The bullet entered just above and slightly outside the guy's left nipple. It somehow either penetrated through the gap between two ribs, or traveled around the outside of the ribcage, and ended up just under the skin just below his left shoulder blade.

The guy that got shot was 6-foot-tall, 22-year-old drunk,... It didn't kill him, but that one shot was enough to take the fight out of him.
Link Posted: 7/18/2008 11:44:47 AM EDT
Friend of mine got one in a trade along with several other pistols. Since he doesn't know much about guns I told him to bring them over so I could have a look see. Well upon inspection of said raven I found a .25 slug stuck halfway down the barrel, good thing I checked it out first. BTW I can't really say too many good things about the pistol but it does function 100%.
Link Posted: 7/18/2008 11:46:20 AM EDT
don't forget this:

Link Posted: 7/18/2008 11:53:17 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 7/18/2008 11:54:15 AM EDT by JohnOD]
My cat McLovin with Raven protection

John
Link Posted: 7/18/2008 12:05:39 PM EDT

Originally Posted By distributor_of_pain:
don't forget this:

faculty1.coloradocollege.edu/~mdaniels/dqmaria/guantlet.jpg


This would be better:

Link Posted: 7/18/2008 12:13:58 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Swindle1984:

I'm taking my leather gloves and gas mask. Probably not going to wear the mask as I can't see shit without my glasses.


You don't have gas mask inserts?
FAIL.

Link Posted: 7/18/2008 12:21:17 PM EDT

Originally Posted By bytor94:

Originally Posted By distributor_of_pain:
don't forget this:

faculty1.coloradocollege.edu/~mdaniels/dqmaria/guantlet.jpg


This would be better:

i21.photobucket.com/albums/b265/bytor94/welldressedcopy.jpg


Geeze people, it's not like he is going to shoot a Glock
Link Posted: 7/18/2008 12:21:21 PM EDT
Some gun dealer sold my wife a Raven for self protection when she was still single. Nice guy that dealer. Anyway, we still have it and I've shot it, but not much. Didn't make much of an impression on me. It is certainly not as nice as a Beretta in 25ACP that I have shot. Shoot 1000 rounds through it? I can't see doing something like that. I think I keep the Raven and a derringer in .22LR (got it for $20) around just to sort of make fun of, if you know what I mean. We could post pics of our cheapy firearms for laughs...

dvo
Link Posted: 7/19/2008 4:47:48 AM EDT
For what they are they aren't that bad.
They are a bit chunky & large compared to a quality .25 but so far mine (bought used with a box of ammo for $50) has run 100%. Haven't shot it as much as my other pistols, the price of .25acp ammo is just too damn high for it to be a casual plinker.

Practical use? It's a bit unbalanced size/power wise, ie too damn big for such a wimpy popgun round. The safety is a joke, it'd have to carried condition three.
If it was the only gun I had I'd eat ramen noodles/sell plasma/collect aluminum cans/etc until I saved enuff money for something better.
Link Posted: 7/19/2008 11:55:02 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 7/19/2008 12:42:42 PM EDT by Swindle1984]
I'm back. No kabooms, and I didn't bother wearing gloves because I couldn't fit my finger through the trigger guard with them on.


The report: I set up an empty Dr. Pepper can about twenty feet away and let fly with three 6-rnd magazines at it. Evidently, the safest place to be when somebody shoots at you with a Raven is directly in front of it, because 18 rounds were carefully aimed and fired and not a single one hit.

I then moved to a cast-iron swivel target at a distance of about 15 feet. My dad fired two magazines at the largest one and scored a hit once, on the very edge of the plinker. I fired one last magazine and still didn't hit anything.

It jammed a total of three times. All three times, it didn't eject the casing entirely before it closed; I'd call it a stovepipe, but the casing was full horizontal rather than vertical. In all three cases, the slide had to be pulled back and the pistol shaken to eject the round.

Recoil was nonexistent, though it was slightly louder than I was expecting. The entire front of the pistol was covered in soot after firing, though it wiped off easily. The pistol only chambered a round when the safety was off; racking the slide with the safety on wouldn't chamber a round. Didn't test the safety with a round in the chamber.

Summary:

Shots fired: 36
Shots hit: 1
Jams: 3
Kabooms: 0

I'll post some photos when my dad gets 'em off the camera.

ETA: I left out some stuff.

The Raven didn't lock the slide back when the pistol was empty, as I expected. It ejected straight up; good thing I wear a hat all the time, because most of the brass landed on the bill of my cap. One casing bounced off my neck; it didn't hurt, I barely noticed, in fact, but just now when I looked in the mirror there's a nice red burn on my neck where it hit.
Link Posted: 7/19/2008 11:56:41 AM EDT
Sell it and but something nice loke an RG22
Link Posted: 7/19/2008 12:01:30 PM EDT

Originally Posted By 1911greg:
Has anyone got through a complete magazine without a malfunction?


Yes, several actually.
Surprisingly, the Ravens are pretty reliable for a .25 ACP.
Link Posted: 7/19/2008 12:02:46 PM EDT
update pics?
Link Posted: 7/19/2008 12:32:17 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Sturmgewehr-58:

Originally Posted By 1911greg:
Has anyone got through a complete magazine without a malfunction?


Yes, several actually.
Surprisingly, the Ravens are pretty reliable for a .25 ACP.


My first gun ever was a Raven, a present as a kid. I can't recall it ever malfunctioning in any way, though I've rarely fired it. I can't hit anything with it, but I can't hit anything with any other pistol I've ever used either.

I actually still have it:



I did, however, manage to put the firing pin in backwards, and now can't take the slide off, completely disabling the thing. Too bad.

Link Posted: 7/19/2008 12:43:25 PM EDT
Pics inbound.
Link Posted: 7/19/2008 2:02:17 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 7/19/2008 2:03:30 PM EDT by Milquetoast]
The Raven .25 was designed for poor people, who can't afford a Glock or a Kimber.

Some poor people are criminals. Some poor people are just poor, and are not criminals. They have the same constitutional rights to keep and bear arms, and the same right to defend themselves against criminal attack, as people who are not poor.

Did you see the video that somebody posted of some guy in a convenience store who drove off a couple of armed robbers (who I have no doubt would have killed him) by spraying the area with his $50 pistol? No hits, but he scared the crap out of the murderous bastards, and they ran like rats. Good for him!

The First Rule of Gunfighting is to have a gun. Any gun, even a cheap gun, is better than no gun. Let's not fall for the lies of the Bradyites, and demonize poor people's guns. Poor people have rights, too -- isn't that what the leftists claim to believe (but obviously don't)?
Link Posted: 7/19/2008 2:09:35 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Swindle1984:
Our example has a nickel finish, a leather holster, and a single 6-rnd magazine.

I've looked at the .25ACP ammo and I'm less than impressed. There's barely room in the back of the cartridge for the primer. And the bullets are just... hee hee.


Don't laugh too much at 25 ACP. I've killed several possums w/ my Beretta 950.
Link Posted: 7/19/2008 2:10:54 PM EDT
You're going to have to change your name to Swindle1984ScissorHands
Link Posted: 7/19/2008 2:13:53 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Swindle1984:
. . . .

It jammed a total of three times. All three times, it didn't eject the casing entirely before it closed; I'd call it a stovepipe, but the casing was full horizontal rather than vertical. In all three cases, the slide had to be pulled back and the pistol shaken to eject the round.

. . . .

Summary:

Shots fired: 36
Shots hit: 1
Jams: 3
Kabooms: 0
. . . .


I bought a Nighthawk Predator last week for a couple grand. Failed to feed the last round of the magazine every time, out of every magazine I tried. So, I guess we could conclude that Ravens are more reliable than Nighthawks.

I replaced the recoil spring with a Wolff 16#, and it has run 100% since then. (Lots of testing loading three rounds only, and firing Mozambiques on a turning target. Good practice, and convenient way to test the last round in the mag.) It has worked 100% since then.

The Raven probably just needs some minor maintenance -- cleaning, lube, maybe a new magazine or new recoil spring -- to run 100%. Not a gun I would choose for self defense -- because of the underpowered cartridge -- but overall, a pretty good piece of engineering for the price.

Shoot it on paper instead of cans or steel, to see where the bullets are going. I have a Kel-Tec .32 that shot 16" off point of aim at 7 yards. A little filing on the sights, and it's fine now.
Link Posted: 7/19/2008 2:24:01 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Milquetoast:
The Raven .25 was designed for poor people, who can't afford a Glock or a Kimber.

Some poor people are criminals. Some poor people are just poor, and are not criminals. They have the same constitutional rights to keep and bear arms, and the same right to defend themselves against criminal attack, as people who are not poor.

Did you see the video that somebody posted of some guy in a convenience store who drove off a couple of armed robbers (who I have no doubt would have killed him) by spraying the area with his $50 pistol? No hits, but he scared the crap out of the murderous bastards, and they ran like rats. Good for him!

The First Rule of Gunfighting is to have a gun. Any gun, even a cheap gun, is better than no gun. Let's not fall for the lies of the Bradyites, and demonize poor people's guns. Poor people have rights, too -- isn't that what the leftists claim to believe (but obviously don't)?


The gun sucks, can't hit the broad side of a barn from inside, and is a hunk of junk. If it's all you can afford or you just plain want one, go for it. Why should I care?


Firing the Raven, incognito. Note that this was posed afterward, I'm not actually firing it. You can see the welt on my neck where the brass hit me.


World's shiniest turd! Fits in the palm of your hand!
Link Posted: 7/19/2008 2:27:44 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Swindle1984:

Originally Posted By Milquetoast:
The Raven .25 was designed for poor people, who can't afford a Glock or a Kimber.

Some poor people are criminals. Some poor people are just poor, and are not criminals. They have the same constitutional rights to keep and bear arms, and the same right to defend themselves against criminal attack, as people who are not poor.

Did you see the video that somebody posted of some guy in a convenience store who drove off a couple of armed robbers (who I have no doubt would have killed him) by spraying the area with his $50 pistol? No hits, but he scared the crap out of the murderous bastards, and they ran like rats. Good for him!

The First Rule of Gunfighting is to have a gun. Any gun, even a cheap gun, is better than no gun. Let's not fall for the lies of the Bradyites, and demonize poor people's guns. Poor people have rights, too -- isn't that what the leftists claim to believe (but obviously don't)?


The gun sucks, can't hit the broad side of a barn from inside, and is a hunk of junk. If it's all you can afford or you just plain want one, go for it. Why should I care?

img117.imageshack.us/img117/7540/ravenmv3.jpg
Firing the Raven, incognito. Note that this was posed afterward, I'm not actually firing it. You can see the welt on my neck where the brass hit me.

img394.imageshack.us/img394/7223/img9958us2.jpg
World's shiniest turd! Fits in the palm of your hand!
ill give you $35 for it. Mail it straight to my door and il lsend you the $$$$
Link Posted: 7/19/2008 2:30:02 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Swindle1984:
[
The gun sucks, can't hit the broad side of a barn from inside, and is a hunk of junk. If it's all you can afford or you just plain want one, go for it. Why should I care?

img117.imageshack.us/img117/7540/ravenmv3.jpg
Firing the Raven, incognito. Note that this was posed afterward, I'm not actually firing it. You can see the welt on my neck where the brass hit me.

img394.imageshack.us/img394/7223/img9958us2.jpg
World's shiniest turd! Fits in the palm of your hand!



Let me guess, shoots WAY left .

You have alot of finger on the trigger , not very good technique



Link Posted: 7/19/2008 2:35:29 PM EDT

Originally Posted By ARMALITE-FAN:
Sell it and but something nice like an RG22


Ha!
Link Posted: 7/19/2008 2:38:24 PM EDT

Originally Posted By drunkintoaster:

Originally Posted By david_g17:

Originally Posted By 70satvert:
Dibs on guns.


dibs on optics.


dibs on ammo


Dibs on broken Raven parts to sell as scrap metal.
Link Posted: 7/19/2008 2:38:47 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 7/19/2008 2:42:14 PM EDT by Swindle1984]

Originally Posted By ANGST:

Originally Posted By Swindle1984:
[
The gun sucks, can't hit the broad side of a barn from inside, and is a hunk of junk. If it's all you can afford or you just plain want one, go for it. Why should I care?

img117.imageshack.us/img117/7540/ravenmv3.jpg
Firing the Raven, incognito. Note that this was posed afterward, I'm not actually firing it. You can see the welt on my neck where the brass hit me.

img394.imageshack.us/img394/7223/img9958us2.jpg
World's shiniest turd! Fits in the palm of your hand!



Let me guess, shoots WAY left . Don't have any idea WHERE it shoots, it never hit anything that we could determine.

You have alot of finger on the trigger , not very good technique I'm also not shooting it, like I said on the caption. If I were, my entire stance would be different.





ETA: Besides, I had the first joint of my finger on the trigger. Just because I've got long fingers doesn't mean I've got a lot of finger on the trigger.
Link Posted: 7/19/2008 2:41:18 PM EDT

Originally Posted By LoganSackett:

Originally Posted By drunkintoaster:

Originally Posted By david_g17:

Originally Posted By 70satvert:
Dibs on guns.
All six?

dibs on optics.
A single Tasco scope?

dibs on ammo
60 rounds of 7.62x39mm, 8 rounds of 7.62x25mm, two boxes of 20-gauge birdshot, a brick of .22lr, and two boxes of .30-30?

Dibs on broken Raven parts to sell as scrap metal.


All of you guys are aiming really low.
Link Posted: 7/19/2008 2:42:31 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Swindle1984:

Originally Posted By LoganSackett:

Originally Posted By drunkintoaster:

Originally Posted By david_g17:

Originally Posted By 70satvert:
Dibs on guns.
All six?

dibs on optics.
A single Tasco scope?

dibs on ammo
60 rounds of 7.62x39mm, 8 rounds of 7.62x25mm, two boxes of 20-gauge birdshot, a brick of .22lr, and two boxes of .30-30?

Dibs on broken Raven parts to sell as scrap metal.


All of you guys are aiming really low.


Hey, I can sell that scrap metal and buy TWO Ravens with the money.
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