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9/22/2017 12:11:25 AM
Posted: 5/24/2002 4:50:18 PM EDT
I just read the topic about the equipment failures and it brought back something that I've felt was a waste of human life for so long but felt, well heck it's noble. If I'm ever in a fire fight and my ass is toast that's one down. Don't waste one, two or anymore coming to take my toasted ass out. Hey, I'm ether dead or close to it and I'm not going to be in that situation in the first place, to see how many brave buddies I have. Go back to the barracks, raid my locker for any cash and have a party. If you want to give your life for me, send checks to my wife and kids.
Link Posted: 5/24/2002 4:52:02 PM EDT
Link Posted: 5/24/2002 5:01:10 PM EDT
Halfcocked - I am guessing by your post that you have never been part of any sort of combat team, yes? As Doublefeed said, those men are closer than family. Proceeding on my original assumption, let us make a comparison. Are you married? Good relationship? If you aren't or don't, think of the best marriage you have ever personally witnessed. Bring those people about ten times closer, and extend it to about two dozen (or more!) people. Bear in mind that these are intelligent and highly motivated people. Bear also in mind that these are the sort of people who would make each others beneficiaries of their life insurance, while going INTO a hot zone (hey, I had a man under my command who made the WHOLE DAMN UNIT his SGLI beneficiary so we could all have a party! I'm pleased to say we never had to collect...) When you are in combat, you fight for your buddy, because HE fights for YOU. Is there a problem with trying to rescue your buddy? I don't think so - I wouldn't be here if it weren't done. Also, look up "Bright Light" ops in Vietnam for more info. There is a bond among combat men that outsiders cannot hope to comprehend. Even other military people (clerks and jerks, admin weenies, and the like) write us off as "intolerably wierd" and shake their heads at the fact that we can almost read each other's minds. The attitude is different, the mindset is different, and the bonds are like talking to yourself. Besides, there are the "rescues" you don't often hear of, because they went off so well. Military ops in the field are not covered in such detail when they go well - we might want to use that trick again... Suggested reading - "Why Didn't You Get Me Out?" - Frank Anton "Code Name: Bright Light" - George L. Vieth FFZ
Link Posted: 5/24/2002 5:06:37 PM EDT
I was in the Army but never in combat. We had a close team as FO's in the artillery but even aside from that, I can't think that I would ever want someone to compromise the mission by wasting any unnecessary resources to recover my husk of human flesh.
Link Posted: 5/24/2002 5:12:10 PM EDT
Link Posted: 5/24/2002 5:32:52 PM EDT
Originally Posted By FreeFireZone: Halfcocked - I am guessing by your post that you have never been part of any sort of combat team, yes? As Doublefeed said, those men are closer than family. Proceeding on my original assumption, let us make a comparison. Are you married? Good relationship? If you aren't or don't, think of the best marriage you have ever personally witnessed. Bring those people about ten times closer, and extend it to about two dozen (or more!) people. Bear in mind that these are intelligent and highly motivated people. Bear also in mind that these are the sort of people who would make each others beneficiaries of their life insurance, while going INTO a hot zone (hey, I had a man under my command who made the WHOLE DAMN UNIT his SGLI beneficiary so we could all have a party! I'm pleased to say we never had to collect...) When you are in combat, you fight for your buddy, because HE fights for YOU. Is there a problem with trying to rescue your buddy? I don't think so - I wouldn't be here if it weren't done. Also, look up "Bright Light" ops in Vietnam for more info. There is a bond among combat men that outsiders cannot hope to comprehend. Even other military people (clerks and jerks, admin weenies, and the like) write us off as "intolerably wierd" and shake their heads at the fact that we can almost read each other's minds. The attitude is different, the mindset is different, and the bonds are like talking to yourself. Besides, there are the "rescues" you don't often hear of, because they went off so well. Military ops in the field are not covered in such detail when they go well - we might want to use that trick again... Suggested reading - "Why Didn't You Get Me Out?" - Frank Anton "Code Name: Bright Light" - George L. Vieth FFZ
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True. But six killed to drag out a dead body. Where's the logic?
Link Posted: 5/24/2002 5:35:59 PM EDT
I understand what Halfcocked is saying. I told my wife if she buries me in an expensive box I'll come back and haunt her forever.
...the man who will hold his head high and run TOWARDS the gunfire, is a rare treasure indeed.
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I'd like to express my appreciation to all of you that do.
Link Posted: 5/24/2002 5:37:47 PM EDT
Link Posted: 5/24/2002 5:44:07 PM EDT
Originally Posted By DoubleFeed: Do you remember the movie Bat 21? That was the biggest rescue operation of the Vietnam War. 300 people died to rescue a 50-something year old radar operator. Never underestimate the lengths of the loyalty that combat troops to each other - even to people they don't know.
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Again true. But he had special knowledge that if was extracted, could have aided the enemy.
Link Posted: 5/24/2002 5:50:05 PM EDT
Link Posted: 5/24/2002 6:02:57 PM EDT
Halfcocked, I'd have to go after your husk. Hell, being the piss poor, back-slidin' christian that I am, well.........I don't want any guilt when I raid your stash of scotch. [beer] Dave S
Link Posted: 5/24/2002 6:06:17 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 5/24/2002 6:15:16 PM EDT by Halfcocked]
Originally Posted By Halfcocked:
Originally Posted By DoubleFeed: Do you remember the movie Bat 21? That was the biggest rescue operation of the Vietnam War. 300 people died to rescue a 50-something year old radar operator. Never underestimate the lengths of the loyalty that combat troops to each other - even to people they don't know.
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Again true. But he had special knowledge that if was extracted, could have aided the enemy.
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Didn' want to edit so.... But [he was alive and] he had special knowledge that if was extracted, could have aided the enemy.
Link Posted: 5/24/2002 6:10:06 PM EDT
Link Posted: 5/24/2002 6:16:16 PM EDT
Never shall I fail my comrades...... I will never leave a fallen comrade to fall into the hands of the enemy ....... Men live and die by these words and for each other. No flame intended, it's just if you never been there, you could never understand.....ENI Strike Hold [%(]
Link Posted: 5/24/2002 6:17:06 PM EDT
Oh. I thought he was in contact with Danny Glover through the whole ordeal. [;)]
Link Posted: 5/24/2002 6:18:14 PM EDT
Link Posted: 5/24/2002 6:19:24 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 5/24/2002 6:29:35 PM EDT by Halfcocked]
Originally Posted By 504PIR: Never shall I fail my comrades...... I will never leave a fallen comrade to fall into the hands of the enemy ....... Men live and die by these words and for each other. No flame intended, it's just if you never been there, you could never understand.....ENI Strike Hold [%(]
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Well if we are fighting together and I'm dead, go after the basterd that got me, not me.
Link Posted: 5/24/2002 6:19:32 PM EDT
Link Posted: 5/24/2002 6:59:03 PM EDT
Originally Posted By DaveS: Halfcocked, I'd have to go after your husk. Hell, being the piss poor, back-slidin' christian that I am, well.........I don't want any guilt when I raid your stash of scotch. [beer] Dave S
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You go home and take care of your own. I'll be happier knowing that, than I'll have six come home dead, after me.
Link Posted: 5/24/2002 7:50:16 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Halfcocked:
Originally Posted By 504PIR: Never shall I fail my comrades...... I will never leave a fallen comrade to fall into the hands of the enemy ....... Men live and die by these words and for each other. No flame intended, it's just if you never been there, you could never understand.....ENI Strike Hold [%(]
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Well if we are fighting together and I'm dead, go after the basterd that got me, not me.
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I agree.
Link Posted: 5/24/2002 7:54:35 PM EDT
Yer talkin about a SEAL? That's different... A basic tenet of SEAL philosophy (and operating doctrine, BTW) is the simple fact that NEVER, NOT ONCE, has a SEAL been left to the enemy - alive or dead - since their inception in 1963. Period. End of discussion. This goes back to the UDT's in WWII. IIRC, there were NEVER, NOT ONCE, any UDT members left to the emeny, either, since inception in 1942. Period. There is NO WAY ON GOD'S GREEN EARTH you will ever be able to hold a SEAL back from going after his buddy. It don't happen. If you are anywhere near Little Creek, Dam Neck, or Coronado, try mentioning the idea to your local SEAL Team. See if you walk out of the room or get thrown out. My money's on the latter. The part they WON'T tell you is that this principle has a great deal to do with the sky-high morale found in the SEAL Teams. You would be amazed what you can accomplish when you KNOW you will be coming home - one way or the other. FFZ
Link Posted: 5/24/2002 8:08:18 PM EDT
Originally Posted By FreeFireZone: Yer talkin about a SEAL? That's different... A basic tenet of SEAL philosophy (and operating doctrine, BTW) is the simple fact that NEVER, NOT ONCE, has a SEAL been left to the enemy - alive or dead - since their inception in 1963. Period. End of discussion. This goes back to the UDT's in WWII. IIRC, there were NEVER, NOT ONCE, any UDT members left to the emeny, either, since inception in 1942. Period. There is NO WAY ON GOD'S GREEN EARTH you will ever be able to hold a SEAL back from going after his buddy. It don't happen. If you are anywhere near Little Creek, Dam Neck, or Coronado, try mentioning the idea to your local SEAL Team. See if you walk out of the room or get thrown out. My money's on the latter. The part they WON'T tell you is that this principle has a great deal to do with the sky-high morale found in the SEAL Teams. You would be amazed what you can accomplish when you KNOW you will be coming home - one way or the other. FFZ
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Well said!
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