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Posted: 10/3/2011 5:48:11 AM EST
Continuing the ongoing saga of the brakes on my Avalanche, I have to replace the rear pads. Discs also since I'm there and the discs dont' look all that good, anyway.

Tire off - check.
Caliper off - check.
Caliper holder off - check.

Rotor off - NOPE, WTF? It feels like I'm taking off a brake DRUM. I feel something springy holding the rotor on. Look in the back and sure as shit, the parking brake is a drum setup inside the rotor.

Now I'm looking to see if there's some type of adjuster to loosen up the parking brake so the rotor will come off. I'll be searching the internet, but any help would be appreciated in case I can't find what I need.
Link Posted: 10/3/2011 5:49:45 AM EST
Mongo bash ... with a hammer.
Link Posted: 10/3/2011 5:50:50 AM EST
[Last Edit: 10/3/2011 5:52:24 AM EST by M82Assault]
It's the same with all disc brake set ups. Just get a BFH and bang on the center of the 'drum' part until it pops off.

ETA: Bang on it hard. Harder than you'd bang [insert your favorite hot celebrity here].
Link Posted: 10/3/2011 5:50:54 AM EST
back off the adjuster, I had to do that on my excursion as it has drum parking brakes. BTW you did release the parking brake
Link Posted: 10/3/2011 5:51:12 AM EST
Shatner Shoot with phaser
Link Posted: 10/3/2011 5:51:22 AM EST
Link Posted: 10/3/2011 5:51:35 AM EST
Link Posted: 10/3/2011 5:51:51 AM EST
Parking brake released. Just don't want to break anything and make this relatively easy job harder.
Link Posted: 10/3/2011 5:52:13 AM EST
Link Posted: 10/3/2011 5:52:31 AM EST
Originally Posted By Gloftoe:
My '01 Suburban has the same setup. Dad's 99 Explorer too. That's typical for parking brakes on rear-disc vehicles, isn't it?


Yes
Link Posted: 10/3/2011 5:53:05 AM EST
Originally Posted By mongo001:
Continuing the ongoing saga of the brakes on my Avalanche, I have to replace the rear pads. Discs also since I'm there and the discs dont' look all that good, anyway.

Tire off - check.
Caliper off - check.
Caliper holder off - check.

Rotor off - NOPE, WTF? It feels like I'm taking off a brake DRUM. I feel something springy holding the rotor on. Look in the back and sure as shit, the parking brake is a drum setup inside the rotor.

Now I'm looking to see if there's some type of adjuster to loosen up the parking brake so the rotor will come off. I'll be searching the internet, but any help would be appreciated in case I can't find what I need.


I have seen this before
The inside of the rotor acts as the drum for the emergency brake pads.
It's a wonky setup I agree, but its how its done

There should be an adjuster on one of the springs to take tension off the parking brake shoes so you can slide the rotor off. I dont know how to get to it though, i'm sorry

Is it the whole hub assembly you're taking off or just the rotor? I did a front brake job on a Colorado (i think) and it was the whole hub assembly that came off
Link Posted: 10/3/2011 5:53:25 AM EST
Originally Posted By Gloftoe:
My '01 Suburban has the same setup. Dad's 99 Explorer too. That's typical for parking brakes on rear-disc vehicles, isn't it?


yep
Link Posted: 10/3/2011 5:53:56 AM EST
My 2008 Grand Cherokee has the same setup....
Link Posted: 10/3/2011 5:53:57 AM EST
My 2001 Silverado was the same way. I had to pound on the rotors with a dead-blow hammer a bit to get them off. I think you can get to it, but you have to be a contortionist to get to the star adjuster for the parking brakes.

Also, if they still have those backing plates that turn to dust after 3 years, have fun with those.
Link Posted: 10/3/2011 5:54:07 AM EST
Originally Posted By Nutro:
Originally Posted By Gloftoe:
My '01 Suburban has the same setup. Dad's 99 Explorer too. That's typical for parking brakes on rear-disc vehicles, isn't it?


Yes


For trucks and SUV's at least. Not so much on most cars.

Dead-blow is the way to go...
Link Posted: 10/3/2011 5:55:09 AM EST
Heat and a Hammer will get it done. Needed that for the wifes Altima.
Link Posted: 10/3/2011 5:55:40 AM EST
Unless the car is a stick shift I rip all that drum bullshit out.

Link Posted: 10/3/2011 5:55:46 AM EST
Most cars I've done are not like this. Come to think of it, this may very well be the first truck I've owned and worked on that has rear disc brakes.

Learn something new everyday.

Online sources and here both say hammer - hammer it is.

Thanks guys.
Link Posted: 10/3/2011 5:56:52 AM EST
Link Posted: 10/3/2011 5:57:25 AM EST
pop the rubber cover off the back, reach in with a screwdriver and spin the adjuster in till you can get the rotor off. or go buy new rotors then beat the old ones off
Link Posted: 10/3/2011 6:00:01 AM EST
Half-tons had disc from 99 to 04. Due to salt complaints from people way-the-fuck-up-there, they went back to drums on half-tons for 05-07. I believe disc is the order of the day on the T-900 series (current). However, 3/4's and 1-tons have always had disc brakes from 01-current. Weird, huh?

Just an interesting little tidbit. BFH and some PB Blaster or Kroil should loosen that up for you. You could do what I did, and just disable your parking brake all together. It's only a matter of time before your wife goes to drive your truck and leaves it on for a block, and tells you "Your truck was really sluggish when I was driving it..."

^ My wife has tried to drive my Duramax 3 times with the Parking Brake on. 6.6L will push right through that... my e-brake pedal is a dead pedal now.
Link Posted: 10/3/2011 6:00:09 AM EST
[Last Edit: 10/3/2011 6:51:58 AM EST by TinLeg]
The rear discs on my 04 Supercrew F150 are NOT like this.


ETA: I recalled I didn't actually pull the rotors off the rear when i changed the pads - So i really don't know. Carry on.
Link Posted: 10/3/2011 6:04:43 AM EST
Bang with a hammer in between the wheel studs. Don't bang from the back.
Link Posted: 10/3/2011 6:12:08 AM EST
Rotor off. I just pulled it with my hands. Back and forth, back and forth - here it comes.

New rotor on - check.
Caliper holder on - check.

Time for new pads.

Wrong pads.

Thanks Autozone.

Off I go.
Link Posted: 10/3/2011 6:15:31 AM EST
Originally Posted By mongo001:
Continuing the ongoing saga of the brakes on my Avalanche, I have to replace the rear pads. Discs also since I'm there and the discs dont' look all that good, anyway.

Tire off - check.
Caliper off - check.
Caliper holder off - check.

Rotor off - NOPE, WTF? It feels like I'm taking off a brake DRUM. I feel something springy holding the rotor on. Look in the back and sure as shit, the parking brake is a drum setup inside the rotor.

Now I'm looking to see if there's some type of adjuster to loosen up the parking brake so the rotor will come off. I'll be searching the internet, but any help would be appreciated in case I can't find what I need.


I tried changing the rear brakes on my wife's Honda Pilot recently.

Same set-up.

I never got the damn rotor off.

Link Posted: 10/3/2011 6:16:00 AM EST
[Last Edit: 10/3/2011 6:21:35 AM EST by BossMaverick]
Originally Posted By Sev89:
Originally Posted By mongo001:
Continuing the ongoing saga of the brakes on my Avalanche, I have to replace the rear pads. Discs also since I'm there and the discs dont' look all that good, anyway.

Tire off - check.
Caliper off - check.
Caliper holder off - check.

Rotor off - NOPE, WTF? It feels like I'm taking off a brake DRUM. I feel something springy holding the rotor on. Look in the back and sure as shit, the parking brake is a drum setup inside the rotor.

Now I'm looking to see if there's some type of adjuster to loosen up the parking brake so the rotor will come off. I'll be searching the internet, but any help would be appreciated in case I can't find what I need.


I have seen this before
The inside of the rotor acts as the drum for the emergency brake pads.
It's a wonky setup I agree, but its how its done

There should be an adjuster on one of the springs to take tension off the parking brake shoes so you can slide the rotor off. I dont know how to get to it though, i'm sorry

Is it the whole hub assembly you're taking off or just the rotor? I did a front brake job on a Colorado (i think) and it was the whole hub assembly that came off


Actually, it works very good this way. GM tried to incorporated a cable actuated parking brake into its rear disk calipers in the some of the late 80's/early 90's cars. It turned out to be a horrible design. Other car makers tried it as with with generally poor results. The problem with calipers that also serve as parking brakes is that you have to always use the parking brake to adjust the caliper. Since most people don't use the parking brake, the brakes never get adjusted with cause all sorts of caliper problems (including calipers that drag and/or lock up). By using calipers that are simple (like normal front calipers) and a separate parking brake drum, you get the best of both worlds. You get good reliable calipers that adjust on their own and you get the holding power of a brake drum parking brake.

Cue the old NBC "The more you know" end clip please.

ETA: The newer style rear disk brake cars I've worked on has this system (first gen Impala FWD and a couple Dodges). Apparently some makes don't us the disk/drum rear combo and have figured out a way to have a reliable disk parking brake. I prefer the disk/drum combo after owning a late 80's GM with the horrible combo design.
Link Posted: 10/3/2011 6:20:34 AM EST
Besides the difficult time with your brake job, have you guys had any difficult times with the '07+ Checy Avalance, Tahoe, Yukon etc platform? I am interested in picking up one around this time period and just doing some background research.

Thanks,
Bryan
Link Posted: 10/3/2011 6:23:30 AM EST

Originally Posted By fiver:
Unless the car is a stick shift I rip all that drum bullshit out.


Those are your emergency brakes.
Link Posted: 10/3/2011 6:23:58 AM EST
front- you do
rears- take to shop and save headache.
Link Posted: 10/3/2011 6:28:25 AM EST
Originally Posted By Houstons_Problem:

Originally Posted By fiver:
Unless the car is a stick shift I rip all that drum bullshit out.


Those are your emergency brakes.


That and if you only use the parking gear on hills you can shear the teeth off of that bad boy.
Link Posted: 10/3/2011 6:29:49 AM EST



You disassemble your brakes without checking a schematic first, or at least googling what's in there?

Link Posted: 10/3/2011 6:33:10 AM EST
[Last Edit: 10/3/2011 6:35:03 AM EST by mongo001]
Originally Posted By IslandBoy:
Besides the difficult time with your brake job, have you guys had any difficult times with the '07+ Checy Avalance, Tahoe, Yukon etc platform? I am interested in picking up one around this time period and just doing some background research.

Thanks,
Bryan



3 trips to the dealership for various sensor failures. 1 trip to the dealership due to passenger side front door lock failure. Brake design is the biggest POS for northern climates - front and rear rotors and pads had to be replaced @ 28k miles due to pads locking up in the sliders.

All but the rear pads and rotors replaced under warranty. I'm out of warranty and sick and tired of dealing with dealership idiots. It's on me now and this rear brake job is my first after warranty.

Other than that I love the transformer design of this truck. It rides like a car, has plenty of power and tows well if not too heavy.
Link Posted: 10/3/2011 6:33:39 AM EST
My 2004 Lightning is the same way, however a quick couple ways ive solved this....

1: 2lbs sledge hammer, smack the rotor between each lug stud 2-3 times.
2: smack back of rotor with 2lbs sledge till the rust seal breaks
3: remove rotor by hand
4: before replacing new rotor use a little antisieze on the axle face where the rotor touchs (not the E-Brake face!)
5: put it back together and never have another issue.

Now instead of using a sledge hammer you can also use 2 grade 8 bolt (a long sum-bitch) 8-12 washers and 4 nuts.

1: Take a washer and but it against the head of the bolt.
2: slide bolt thru caliper mounting hole
3: on the hole closest to the rotor face slide 2-3+ washers against the hole
4: thread on nut against washers
5: thread nut to end of bolt and then tighten til nut is against rotor face
6: tighten bolt while holding nut perfectly still against caliper hole/ear
7: keep tightening each set of bolts till rotors pops off.

you can youtube this same trick :)
Link Posted: 10/3/2011 6:34:03 AM EST
Originally Posted By Phil_A_Steen:



You disassemble your brakes without checking a schematic first, or at least googling what's in there?

http://www.myautorepairadvice.com/images/bad_mechanic_with_part.jpg




Sorry, this is only my 50th brake job in my life. I figured I had things covered.

Link Posted: 10/3/2011 6:54:07 AM EST
I have the same arrangement on my 02 Yukon XL 2500.
Its a BITCH.

The passenger (IIRC) brake's adjustment hole is right next to the leaf spring, so you're hunched over the rotor, head banging on the wheel well, using a mirror and a flashlight trying to see wtf is going on in the little hole and if you made it click over or not.

Kharn
Link Posted: 10/3/2011 6:57:08 AM EST
Link Posted: 10/3/2011 6:58:01 AM EST
I would avoid using a hammer, although it works in some cases, you'll just wind up cracking the pads to the parking brake. Ask me how I know There is an adjustment nut on the caliper somewhere. The truck I worked on was a silverado 1500, but I'm sure it's the same for your Avalanche.
Link Posted: 10/3/2011 7:24:41 AM EST
Originally Posted By mongo001:
Originally Posted By Phil_A_Steen:



You disassemble your brakes without checking a schematic first, or at least googling what's in there?

http://www.myautorepairadvice.com/images/bad_mechanic_with_part.jpg




Sorry, this is only my 50th brake job in my life. I figured I had things covered.



I only ever do one side at a time - that way if I get confused I have the other side to look at.
Link Posted: 10/3/2011 7:37:10 AM EST
Porsche 924/944's had this setup. The shoes were the exact size as those on a VW Beetle.
Link Posted: 10/3/2011 7:55:59 AM EST
Just be glad you don't have to repack the pads for legitimate rear drums.

I did that on the rear drums of my 92 Cherokee. Once. Between two full grown men we invented at least a dozen new swear words.
Link Posted: 10/3/2011 8:08:54 AM EST
I have never, ever used an emergency brake in an actual emergency in my life. I've never lost main brakes.

Parking with a manual, and e-brake grabs to do donuts are the only real use mine have gotten.
Link Posted: 10/3/2011 10:02:02 AM EST
[Last Edit: 10/3/2011 10:06:19 AM EST by mongo001]
Originally Posted By Rogue-Sasquatch:
Just be glad you don't have to repack the pads for legitimate rear drums.

I did that on the rear drums of my 92 Cherokee. Once. Between two full grown men we invented at least a dozen new swear words.



When I was in the Nav', I did numerous rescue calls for guys who tried to do their own drum brakes. Back then, I was a certified auto mechanic. The training and experience was fresh in my mind. I also had, and still have, all the tools needed to properly do drum brakes with minimal use of cuss words.

Rule of thumb is to take one side apart at a time.

Anyway:

Job's done. Pads float freely in the clips now, unlike how I found them EVEN AFTER THE DEALERSHIP "FIXED" THEM.

It's almost a relief that my warranty is out. Now it's all me. I don't have to worry about some nonthinking parts changer fucking up my vehicle again.
Link Posted: 10/3/2011 10:19:12 AM EST

Originally Posted By Houstons_Problem:

Originally Posted By fiver:
Unless the car is a stick shift I rip all that drum bullshit out.


Those are your emergency brakes.

I know what they are.

They are fucking parking brakes.

When was the last time you had a master cylinder failure? I rip that shit out and don't look back. I don't go out of my way to do it or anything, but if I'm in there fucking around replacing stuff, it goes. Unless it's a standard transmission.
Link Posted: 10/3/2011 10:21:38 AM EST

Originally Posted By rbrooks:
I have never, ever used an emergency brake in an actual emergency in my life. I've never lost main brakes.

Parking with a manual, and e-brake grabs to do donuts are the only real use mine have gotten.

The day a rubber hose breaks is the day you need your emergency brakes. Happened to my dad once. Of course, hoses are generally made well these days, but one day a little animal nawed several ignition wires on my car. It didn't start. If it had been my brake hose and the little bastard didn't naw all the way through, guess what could have happened the first time I stepped on my brakes hard.

For what's it's worth, I have never used an airbag, but I don't think it is wise to pull the fuse.
Link Posted: 10/3/2011 10:23:42 AM EST
[Last Edit: 10/3/2011 10:24:17 AM EST by Houstons_Problem]

Link Posted: 10/3/2011 10:25:49 AM EST

Originally Posted By fiver:

Originally Posted By Houstons_Problem:

Originally Posted By fiver:
Unless the car is a stick shift I rip all that drum bullshit out.


Those are your emergency brakes.

I know what they are.

They are fucking parking brakes.

When was the last time you had a master cylinder failure? I rip that shit out and don't look back. I don't go out of my way to do it or anything, but if I'm in there fucking around replacing stuff, it goes. Unless it's a standard transmission.

I don't even use the parking brake on my manual transmission cars, unless I'm on a pretty steep hill (not many of those here in Ohio...).

I just leave it in gear.
Link Posted: 10/3/2011 10:32:15 AM EST
Originally Posted By mongo001:
Originally Posted By Rogue-Sasquatch:
Just be glad you don't have to repack the pads for legitimate rear drums.

I did that on the rear drums of my 92 Cherokee. Once. Between two full grown men we invented at least a dozen new swear words.



When I was in the Nav', I did numerous rescue calls for guys who tried to do their own drum brakes. Back then, I was a certified auto mechanic. The training and experience was fresh in my mind. I also had, and still have, all the tools needed to properly do drum brakes with minimal use of cuss words.

Rule of thumb is to take one side apart at a time.

Anyway:

Job's done. Pads float freely in the clips now, unlike how I found them EVEN AFTER THE DEALERSHIP "FIXED" THEM.

It's almost a relief that my warranty is out. Now it's all me. I don't have to worry about some nonthinking parts changer fucking up my vehicle again.


This, both the one side at a time and doing it myself. If it's MY ass or my kids or wife it is GOING to be done right, and I don't trust anyone who gets paid flat rate for that kind of thing. Nothing personal to the mechanics on here - I'm fine with you guys on almost any other system on the car. But not the brakes.
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