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Posted: 12/8/2013 2:56:33 PM EDT
I don't even know how to make sense of what I saw. One and one half million.
They were murdered by men. Men born of women; who were raised by mothers and fathers who loved them. Men who had wives and little girls of their own. They killed one and one half million- People they did't hate. People they didn't even know... Because they were told to. Then they went home. They ate dinner with their families. They tucked their children into bed and told them, "Daddy loves you". Then they woke up the next day and did it again. I stood in a room that had a ton or human hair- shorn from the heads of women about to die. Shorn from their heads to make fabric. My head is so fucked right now. It doesn't even make sense. Sorry. CSB. 
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Posted: 12/8/2013 2:58:32 PM EDT
[#1]
damn
they were just following orders is the bullshit excuse that people try to justify for what happened 
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Posted: 12/8/2013 3:00:29 PM EDT
[#2]
That shit happened right under the noses of German citizens... Some even seeing the freight cars loaded up with Hitlers victims... And looked the other way.... This seems familiar somehow....
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Posted: 12/8/2013 3:02:13 PM EDT
[#3]
And another thing: I've "done" "war". Three time OIF, one time OEf. I "get" war. This was an entirely different thing. Not even close to war. The place was "heavy". I don't know how else to explain it. Only other place I've ever been to that was even a shadow of that cursed land was Gettysberg, but that can't even really compare.
I'll post picture when go return stateside. |
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Posted: 12/8/2013 3:02:49 PM EDT
[#4]
I can shed tears just imagining that. Any worthy man would.
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Posted: 12/8/2013 3:03:41 PM EDT
[#5]
Tag
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Posted: 12/8/2013 3:03:43 PM EDT
[#6]
Frightening, isn't it?
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Posted: 12/8/2013 3:03:48 PM EDT
[#7]
It can happen here too.
"Enemies of the 99%! Send them to the gas chamber." |
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Posted: 12/8/2013 3:04:10 PM EDT
[#8]
Dude at work showed up with a Hitler mustache today.
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Posted: 12/8/2013 3:04:25 PM EDT
[#9]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
damn they were just following orders is the bullshit excuse that people try to justify for what happened Certainly not defending them, but I think a lot of it was do this or be shot in the head. Me personally, I'd take a bullet anyway before I slaughter people for no reason. |
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Posted: 12/8/2013 3:05:30 PM EDT
[#10]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
That shit happened right under the noses of German citizens... Some even seeing the freight cars loaded up with Hitlers victims... And looked the other way.... This seems familiar somehow.... Dude! Auschwitz and Auschwitz II-Birkenau were RIGHT in the city. Any poles suspected of helping/resisting- hanged- right in the main thoroughfare. With a complicit media and a convenient "enemy", there is no limit to the horrors government can perpetrate. OWN GUNS. |
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Posted: 12/8/2013 3:06:42 PM EDT
[#11]
I remember when I was in the 3rd grade (I went to a nice private school) we learned for the first time about the concentration camps. I didn't sleep that whole week, I got sick to my stomach and couldn't stop asking my parents about it.
Some of the others in the class were a little bit affected, I was affected so badly my mom had to visit with the teacher. Not to scold the teacher but to just let her know I was struggling with it. |
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Posted: 12/8/2013 3:06:43 PM EDT
[#12]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
And another thing: I've "done" "war". Three time OIF, one time OEf. I "get" war. This was an entirely different thing. Not even close to war. The place was "heavy". I don't know how else to explain it. Only other place I've ever been to that was even a shadow of that cursed land was Gettysberg, but that can't even really compare. I'll post picture when go return stateside. One day I'll get there and visit. I'm a huge WW2 history buff and at is one aspect of the war I think people can't fully understand. Millions died not on a battlefield, but in a camp simply for being born Jewish. |
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Posted: 12/8/2013 3:06:57 PM EDT
[#13]
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Posted: 12/8/2013 3:08:46 PM EDT
[#14]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Dude at work showed up with a Hitler mustache today. It's time to take it back...kill the stigma. 
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Posted: 12/8/2013 3:08:48 PM EDT
[#15]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
It can happen here too. "Enemies of the 99%! Send them to the gas chamber." Read The Stanley Milgram Experiments. Anyone will kill another innocent under the right circumstances. |
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Posted: 12/8/2013 3:09:32 PM EDT
[#16]
I visited Sachsenhausen 10 years ago. It was a creepy place.
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Posted: 12/8/2013 3:10:13 PM EDT
[#17]
Quote HistoryQuoted: It can happen here too. "Enemies of the 99%! Send them to the gas chamber." And sadly, we have had people suggest doing it to them before they can do it. Humans can talk themselves into being monsters and justify it.
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Posted: 12/8/2013 3:11:06 PM EDT
[#18]
The Imperial War Museum here in London has a room sized model of the whole Auschwitz facility with descriptions of every part of the process.
It's harrowing enough just to walk around that and see the scale of it, never mind seeing the real thing
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Posted: 12/8/2013 3:13:58 PM EDT
[#19]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Certainly not defending them, but I think a lot of it was do this or be shot in the head. Me personally, I'd take a bullet anyway before I slaughter people for no reason. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
damn they were just following orders is the bullshit excuse that people try to justify for what happened Certainly not defending them, but I think a lot of it was do this or be shot in the head. Me personally, I'd take a bullet anyway before I slaughter people for no reason. You SAY that. And I believe you actually BELIEVE that... But... You never know. Research would tend to suggest that you would. You'd shoot babies if the gut, then Toss them into a mass grave, still howling. I'd like to think the same about myself... But who the fuck knows. Those were not ordinary times. Power and fear eat away at Man 's soul. God help us. |
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Posted: 12/8/2013 3:14:49 PM EDT
[#20]
I think what's so mind boggling is that it was perpetrated by people from a modern, progressive and urbane European nation in the middle of the Twentieth Century.
Germany may have lost WW1 and suffered the word wide economic depression, but it was still a modern democratic nation with a somewhat functioning "liberal" government and constitution. Until the Nazis took over. Some of what happened in the Soviet Union was understandable. That nation was a mess, mostly agrarian, dirt poor and suffering under the boot of Communism. But the Germans? WTF happened that allowed them to turn on their own neighbors and countrymen? I think this is what undermined whatever faith I may have had in government and authority. If it could happen in a modern and advanced nation and culture like Germany in the not so distant past, it could happen anywhere. Anytime. |
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Posted: 12/8/2013 3:15:46 PM EDT
[#21]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Dude at work showed up with a Hitler mustache today. You work with Taxman? |
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Posted: 12/8/2013 3:16:57 PM EDT
[#22]
Quote HistoryQuoted: It's time to take it back...kill the stigma. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Dude at work showed up with a Hitler mustache today. It's time to take it back...kill the stigma. As soon as I saw him, I thew my right arm straight up, and waved, from the wrist. Just to say hello. |
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Posted: 12/8/2013 3:17:02 PM EDT
[#23]
http://www.amazon.com/Ordinary-Men-Reserve-Battalion-Solution/dp/0060995068
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Posted: 12/8/2013 3:18:01 PM EDT
[#24]
Quoted:
I don't even know how to make sense of what I saw. One and one half million. They were murdered by men. Men born of women; who were raised by mothers and fathers who loved them. Men who had wives and little girls of their own. They killed one and one half million- People they did't hate. People they didn't even know... Because they were told to. Then they went home. They ate dinner with their families. They tucked their children into bed and told them, "Daddy loves you". Then they woke up the next day and did it again. I stood in a room that had a ton or human hair- shorn from the heads of women about to die. Shorn from their heads to make fabric. My head is so fucked right now. It doesn't even make sense. Sorry. CSB. Fuck Nazis. |
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Posted: 12/8/2013 3:18:16 PM EDT
[#25]
The Nazi warcrimes are astonishing.
I was reading the other day about Oskar Dirlewanger. I had never heard of the man or his unit before -- and I simply can't fathom the atrocities they are charged with. |
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Posted: 12/8/2013 3:19:21 PM EDT
[#26]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I think what's so mind boggling is that it was perpetrated by people from a modern, progressive and urbane European nation in the middle of the Twentieth Century. Germany may have lost WW1 and suffered the word wide economic depression, but it was still a modern democratic nation with a somewhat functioning "liberal" government and constitution. Until the Nazis took over. Some of what happened in the Soviet Union was understandable. That nation was a mess, mostly agrarian, dirt poor and suffering under the boot of Communism. But the Germans? WTF happened that allowed them to turn on their own neighbors and countrymen? I think this is what undermined whatever faith I may have had in government and authority. If it could happen in a modern and advanced nation and culture like Germany in the not so distant past, it could happen anywhere. Anytime. Our own sheets are stained with the blood of Africans, Cherokee, Sioux, and a myriad is others in our dark past, only whispered about in hushed voices. Imagine what Himmler could have accomplished with the combined resources of the NSA ,FBI, and CIA??? |
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Posted: 12/8/2013 3:19:24 PM EDT
[#27]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Fuck Nazis. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: I don't even know how to make sense of what I saw. One and one half million. They were murdered by men. Men born of women; who were raised by mothers and fathers who loved them. Men who had wives and little girls of their own. They killed one and one half million- People they did't hate. People they didn't even know... Because they were told to. Then they went home. They ate dinner with their families. They tucked their children into bed and told them, "Daddy loves you". Then they woke up the next day and did it again. I stood in a room that had a ton or human hair- shorn from the heads of women about to die. Shorn from their heads to make fabric. My head is so fucked right now. It doesn't even make sense. Sorry. CSB. Fuck Nazis. The Nazis were amateurs compared to the Russians.
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Posted: 12/8/2013 3:19:40 PM EDT
[#28]
There is a whole series from the BBC on Netflix on it I watched recently. A really fucked up place run by an even more fucked up man who lived just outside of the camp with his family.
It pretty much became more or less a contest of who could come up with the most efficient way of killing people. Then they started using death vans (had the exhaust routed thru the box part) and then they discovered how well Zyklon B worked. One thing that sticks in my mind after watching that series, is that Zyklon B was by no way a humane way of ending life. The SS would rev up motorcycles they had parked outside the gas chamber to help sound out the screams that still came out of 2' thick concrete walls. And that would last up to 30 minutes. Just think about that. 30 fucking minutes to die an agonizing death. ETA: And the SS got so damned proficient at killing Jews, they ran into another problem. How dispose of the bodies. After the ovens got over taxed, they used very large outdoor pit style crematoriums. Gas, layer of wood, bodies, layer of wood, bodies, and so on. And it never went out until the Allies rolled up. |
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Posted: 12/8/2013 3:20:51 PM EDT
[#29]
Going to tour the Gulags in and see where 50 million + men, women and children died?
Fun fact: If you don't put people in death camps via a few, short categories, and instead, put ANYONE in (millions more), you get a pass. Communism (whom we have president now) killed more people than that guy with the funny mustache. But... keeping it the past means people won't realize who's in power today. |
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Posted: 12/8/2013 3:21:21 PM EDT
[#30]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I think what's so mind boggling is that it was perpetrated by people from a modern, progressive and urbane European nation in the middle of the Twentieth Century. Germany may have lost WW1 and suffered the word wide economic depression, but it was still a modern democratic nation with a somewhat functioning "liberal" government and constitution. Until the Nazis took over. Some of what happened in the Soviet Union was understandable. That nation was a mess, mostly agrarian, dirt poor and suffering under the boot of Communism. But the Germans? WTF happened that allowed them to turn on their own neighbors and countrymen? I think this is what undermined whatever faith I may have had in government and authority. If it could happen in a modern and advanced nation and culture like Germany in the not so distant past, it could happen anywhere. Anytime. Total war happened. |
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Posted: 12/8/2013 3:21:26 PM EDT
[#31]
Quote HistoryQuoted: The Imperial War Museum here in London has a room sized model of the whole Auschwitz facility with descriptions of every part of the process. It's harrowing enough just to walk around that and see the scale of it, never mind seeing the real thing In my 9th grade English class we read a story written by some author who had visited Auschwitz. Describing that after the tour was over, everyone was very quiet and seemed real depressed. I can imagine. It stirs up really strong emotions just reading about it. Letting visiting and seeing for yourself.
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Posted: 12/8/2013 3:23:29 PM EDT
[#32]
Quoted:
I don't even know how to make sense of what I saw. One and one half million. They were murdered by men. Men born of women; who were raised by mothers and fathers who loved them. Men who had wives and little girls of their own. They killed one and one half million- People they did't hate. People they didn't even know... Because they were told to. Then they went home. They ate dinner with their families. They tucked their children into bed and told them, "Daddy loves you". Then they woke up the next day and did it again. I stood in a room that had a ton or human hair- shorn from the heads of women about to die. Shorn from their heads to make fabric. My head is so fucked right now. It doesn't even make sense. Sorry. CSB. Actually, their heads were shaved to prevent the spread of disease, which runs rampant in camps like that, often spread by lice and fleas. It had nothing to do with making fabric or killing them, and their heads were shaved even if they were kept alive for slave labor. Generally they were kept alive for labor, unless they were unsuitable for labor (not a good time to be really old, really young, or infirm). |
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Posted: 12/8/2013 3:23:55 PM EDT
[#33]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
The Nazis were amateurs compared to the Russians. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
I don't even know how to make sense of what I saw. One and one half million. They were murdered by men. Men born of women; who were raised by mothers and fathers who loved them. Men who had wives and little girls of their own. They killed one and one half million- People they did't hate. People they didn't even know... Because they were told to. Then they went home. They ate dinner with their families. They tucked their children into bed and told them, "Daddy loves you". Then they woke up the next day and did it again. I stood in a room that had a ton or human hair- shorn from the heads of women about to die. Shorn from their heads to make fabric. My head is so fucked right now. It doesn't even make sense. Sorry. CSB. Fuck Nazis. The Nazis were amateurs compared to the Russians. Yeah? Well fuck them too. ETA: This thread is about Nazis. Try to keep up. |
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Posted: 12/8/2013 3:24:14 PM EDT
[#34]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
That shit happened right under the noses of German citizens... Some even seeing the freight cars loaded up with Hitlers victims... And looked the other way.... This seems familiar somehow.... That is why Eisenhower had all citizens walk through the camp. So, they would never forget. I want to there myself when I make it to Bavaria someday!
Many brothers were sent to the camps. The flower 'Forget Me Not' is the symbol. The grand lodge of Norway was a Nazi HQ. OP - Welcome to true evil!! It is what it is. For a good heart there is no reason or logic. Don't forget the face of it! Now you what Liberty is & why it is worth saving! |
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Posted: 12/8/2013 3:25:10 PM EDT
[#35]
tag for more pics s13g....
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Posted: 12/8/2013 3:25:49 PM EDT
[#36]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
The Nazis were amateurs compared to the Russians. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
I don't even know how to make sense of what I saw. One and one half million. They were murdered by men. Men born of women; who were raised by mothers and fathers who loved them. Men who had wives and little girls of their own. They killed one and one half million- People they did't hate. People they didn't even know... Because they were told to. Then they went home. They ate dinner with their families. They tucked their children into bed and told them, "Daddy loves you". Then they woke up the next day and did it again. I stood in a room that had a ton or human hair- shorn from the heads of women about to die. Shorn from their heads to make fabric. My head is so fucked right now. It doesn't even make sense. Sorry. CSB. Fuck Nazis. The Nazis were amateurs compared to the Russians. The Chinese and Cambodians have done some pretty impressive work too. |
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Posted: 12/8/2013 3:25:52 PM EDT
[#37]
And it was done by the most industrially, technologically and economically advanced nation of its time. It was not Rwanda or Cambodia. It was done by a very very small group of individuals following their democratically-elected and popular leader and his unelected cabinet of Secretaries and officers. And everyone in that nation and in the world was openly told what that leader's intentions were years before, both in the leader's own speeches and his book. It should NOT be a shock that it happened, it should be a shock that it was ALLOWED to happen. And it WILL happen again, maybe not in Germany, but certainly in another industrially, technologically and economically advanced nation. |
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Posted: 12/8/2013 3:26:29 PM EDT
[#38]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Dude! Auschwitz and Auschwitz II-Birkenau were RIGHT in the city. Any poles suspected of helping/resisting- hanged- right in the main thoroughfare. With a complicit media and a convenient "enemy", there is no limit to the horrors government can perpetrate. OWN GUNS. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
That shit happened right under the noses of German citizens... Some even seeing the freight cars loaded up with Hitlers victims... And looked the other way.... This seems familiar somehow.... Dude! Auschwitz and Auschwitz II-Birkenau were RIGHT in the city. Any poles suspected of helping/resisting- hanged- right in the main thoroughfare. With a complicit media and a convenient "enemy", there is no limit to the horrors government can perpetrate. OWN GUNS. I was shocked to hear NPR admit today that one of the reasons scholars believe that Native Americans were not forced into slavery during colonial times is that they were relatively organized and ARMED! Guess the story editor let that inconvenient truth slip through.
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Posted: 12/8/2013 3:26:31 PM EDT
[#39]
More reading on Oskar Dirlewanger (the thread that spurred my reading in the first place):
http://www.reddit.com/r/morbidreality/comments/1orrsy/oskar_dirlewanger_the_most_evil_man_in_the_ss |
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Posted: 12/8/2013 3:27:24 PM EDT
[#40]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Our own sheets are stained with the blood of Africans, Cherokee, Sioux, and a myriad is others in our dark past, only whispered about in hushed voices. Imagine what Himmler could have accomplished with the combined resources of the NSA ,FBI, and CIA??? Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
I think what's so mind boggling is that it was perpetrated by people from a modern, progressive and urbane European nation in the middle of the Twentieth Century. Germany may have lost WW1 and suffered the word wide economic depression, but it was still a modern democratic nation with a somewhat functioning "liberal" government and constitution. Until the Nazis took over. Some of what happened in the Soviet Union was understandable. That nation was a mess, mostly agrarian, dirt poor and suffering under the boot of Communism. But the Germans? WTF happened that allowed them to turn on their own neighbors and countrymen? I think this is what undermined whatever faith I may have had in government and authority. If it could happen in a modern and advanced nation and culture like Germany in the not so distant past, it could happen anywhere. Anytime. Our own sheets are stained with the blood of Africans, Cherokee, Sioux, and a myriad is others in our dark past, only whispered about in hushed voices. Imagine what Himmler could have accomplished with the combined resources of the NSA ,FBI, and CIA??? North America is a very young society compared to Europe. Their great cities and empires were hundreds of years old when we were playing Cowboys and Indians. I do shudder to think what government is capable of now due to technology, and also because there seems to be less moral compass today. Is it less hypocritical to admit you have no morals and commit atrocities in the name of the State, than it is to pretend you have them and commit those same atrocities? |
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Posted: 12/8/2013 3:27:37 PM EDT
[#41]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
There is a whole series from the BBC on Netflix on it I watched recently. A really fucked up place run by an even more fucked up man who lived just outside of the camp with his family. It pretty much became more or less a contest of who could come up with the most efficient way of killing people. Then they started using death vans (had the exhaust routed thru the box part) and then they discovered how well Zyklon B worked. One thing that sticks in my mind after watching that series, is that Zyklon B was by no way a humane way of ending life. The SS would rev up motorcycles they had parked outside the gas chamber to help sound out the screams that still came out of 2' thick concrete walls. And that would last up to 30 minutes. Just think about that. 30 fucking minutes to die an agonizing death. Yep, Zyklon-B was not designed for killing people; it was a pesticide that they used for delousing the clothes of the prisoners. But when the gassing trucks were not keeping up with their murder requirements, someone had the idea to use the Zyklon-B. |
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Posted: 12/8/2013 3:29:40 PM EDT
[#42]
It doesn't matter what country or government, men can do horrendous things to one another and yet justify it in their minds that they are doing the right thing. It could easily happen here, watch.
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Posted: 12/8/2013 3:29:51 PM EDT
[#43]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
There is a whole series from the BBC on Netflix on it I watched recently. A really fucked up place run by an even more fucked up man who lived just outside of the camp with his family. It pretty much became more or less a contest of who could come up with the most efficient way of killing people. Then they started using death vans (had the exhaust routed thru the box part) and then they discovered how well Zyklon B worked. One thing that sticks in my mind after watching that series, is that Zyklon B was by no way a humane way of ending life. The SS would rev up motorcycles they had parked outside the gas chamber to help sound out the screams that still came out of 2' thick concrete walls. And that would last up to 30 minutes. Just think about that. 30 fucking minutes to die an agonizing death. There was a barracks- Barracks 15, I think, the "Punishment barracks"- where they would "sentence" people to "death by starvation". That's not practical. That's not convenient. That takes time, patience, and a dead, corrupted soul. |
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Posted: 12/8/2013 3:29:51 PM EDT
[#44]
The reason?
Because people are easily brainwashed. And if you start shooting the bad guys early enough to make a difference, you'll be labeled a radical crazy person. If you wait until it's acceptable, you'll be 80# underweight, unarmed and being loaded in a boxcar. |
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Posted: 12/8/2013 3:30:00 PM EDT
[#45]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I think what's so mind boggling is that it was perpetrated by people from a modern, progressive and urbane European nation in the middle of the Twentieth Century. Germany may have lost WW1 and suffered the word wide economic depression, but it was still a modern democratic nation with a somewhat functioning "liberal" government and constitution. Until the Nazis took over. Some of what happened in the Soviet Union was understandable. That nation was a mess, mostly agrarian, dirt poor and suffering under the boot of Communism. But the Germans? WTF happened that allowed them to turn on their own neighbors and countrymen? I think this is what undermined whatever faith I may have had in government and authority. If it could happen in a modern and advanced nation and culture like Germany in the not so distant past, it could happen anywhere. Anytime. what happened was the german population was starving due to the worldwide depression and reparations from WW I. All it took was one brazen orator to captivate the population. it can happen anywhere, look at the present state of the US politics and our own looming savior justin trudeau. educate yourself, and educate those around you. |
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Posted: 12/8/2013 3:31:11 PM EDT
[#46]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
The reason? Because people are easily brainwashed. And if you start shooting the bad guys early enough to make a difference, you'll be labeled a radical crazy person. If you wait until it's acceptable, you'll be 80# underweight, unarmed and being loaded in a boxcar. This may be the best, and most accurate post I've ever read on here. |
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Posted: 12/8/2013 3:32:54 PM EDT
[#47]
Those are creepy places to visit, but I am glad some of them are partially preserved the way they are.
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Posted: 12/8/2013 3:33:38 PM EDT
[#48]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
The Nazis were amateurs compared to the Russians. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
I don't even know how to make sense of what I saw. One and one half million. They were murdered by men. Men born of women; who were raised by mothers and fathers who loved them. Men who had wives and little girls of their own. They killed one and one half million- People they did't hate. People they didn't even know... Because they were told to. Then they went home. They ate dinner with their families. They tucked their children into bed and told them, "Daddy loves you". Then they woke up the next day and did it again. I stood in a room that had a ton or human hair- shorn from the heads of women about to die. Shorn from their heads to make fabric. My head is so fucked right now. It doesn't even make sense. Sorry. CSB. Fuck Nazis. The Nazis were amateurs compared to the Russians. and Japanese, Burmese, Khmer Rouge ad infinitem. Humans are covered by a really thin veneer of civility |
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Posted: 12/8/2013 3:34:28 PM EDT
[#49]
You need to find some babies to play with.
Never again is understood. The evil that is there is toxic, so find a way to get rid of it. The sun still shines on us all. |
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Posted: 12/8/2013 3:36:03 PM EDT
[#50]
When it came to killing, NAZIs weren't amateurs compared to anyone.
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