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Posted: 10/28/2010 3:14:08 PM EDT
[#1]
No.
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Posted: 10/28/2010 3:15:42 PM EDT
[#2]
Quoted:
No. This... |
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Posted: 10/28/2010 3:15:52 PM EDT
[#3]
in principle no
but reality has shown us that it might not be a bad idea. |
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Posted: 10/28/2010 3:17:11 PM EDT
[#4]
maybe too much tv really does rot your brain
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Posted: 10/28/2010 3:17:20 PM EDT
[#5]
i will agree to denise richards being my future ex wife and nothing more
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Posted: 10/28/2010 3:17:50 PM EDT
[#6]
no
that's like saying that, in the US, the constitution and bill of rights should only apply to people who have served in the military (besides the fact that there are many other ways to serve a country other than through the military). |
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Posted: 10/28/2010 3:20:05 PM EDT
[#7]
Read the book! Then talk.
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Posted: 10/28/2010 3:22:44 PM EDT
[#8]
Quoted:
Read the book! Then talk. Yep. |
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Posted: 10/28/2010 3:23:13 PM EDT
[#9]
Quoted:
Would you agree with the notion that Citizenship would not be a right given at birth, but should be earned by actually serving one's Country? YES |
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Posted: 10/28/2010 3:23:15 PM EDT
[#10]
Quoted:
Quoted:
No. This... x3 |
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Posted: 10/28/2010 3:25:46 PM EDT
[#11]
Quoted:
Quoted:
Read the book! Then talk. Yep. I want to choke the asshole reponsible for that frigging abortion of a movie....... Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile |
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Posted: 10/28/2010 3:26:41 PM EDT
[#12]
if both your parents are legal then you being born here shouldnt be a problem. however, you shouldnt be able to hop a fence and plop a kid out and then yell hallelujah because the kid is now a legal citizen of the US.
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Posted: 10/28/2010 3:26:56 PM EDT
[#13]
Thread needs Dina
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Posted: 10/28/2010 3:28:23 PM EDT
[#14]
Quoted:
in principle no but reality has shown us that it might not be a bad idea. Don't know what shitty reality you live in, but I guess all of the disabled wouldn't be granted citizenship in your fucked up world. |
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Posted: 10/28/2010 3:29:14 PM EDT
[#15]
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Read the book! Then talk. Yep. I want to choke the asshole reponsible for that frigging abortion of a movie....... Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile Can I help? The problem with that movie is that it basically is what you would get if you filmed the book cover and the paragraph on the back. A few character names, a little context and bugs 
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Posted: 10/28/2010 3:32:33 PM EDT
[#16]
No. The problem is that it leaves it to the politicians to decide what sufficient "service" is. And that opens the door to all kinds of graft, corruption, and shenanigans.
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Posted: 10/28/2010 3:35:44 PM EDT
[#17]
Quoted:
Quoted:
in principle no but reality has shown us that it might not be a bad idea. Don't know what shitty reality you live in, but I guess all of the disabled wouldn't be granted citizenship in your fucked up world. You obviously haven't read the book. The movie was an atrocity. In the book if you were disabled but still desired federal service a position would be found for you. Something to the effect of "counting the hairs on a wooly caterpillars back" (I am paraphrasing). Additionally federal service wasn't limited to the military there were scientific and peace corps like positions IIRC. I waffle back and forth on my views on subject of mandatory military service. When you talk to men who are 50+ years of age nearly all of them are vets. Many of them would have never served without the draft system in place. It brought in a more rounded and balanced portion of the population. Military service became a unifying experience for a large percentage of Americans. I know that personally I met people from places and backgrounds I would have never met in my civilian life. ETA: Heinlein also advocating beating petty criminals in the public square and women in positions of authority (Starship pilots). Pretty forward stuff for 1959. If you haven't read the book it is a good read. No, they've got no time for glory in the Infantry. No, they've got no use for praises loudly sung, But in every soldier's heart in all the Infantry Shines the name, shines the name of Rodger Young. |
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Posted: 10/28/2010 3:40:49 PM EDT
[#18]
Dina > Denise IMO In Starship, Denise seemed like more of tease while Dina was ready to get busy.  |
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Posted: 10/28/2010 3:45:47 PM EDT
[#19]
I don't remember any names, but I'd totally pork that dudes GF.
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Posted: 10/28/2010 3:46:28 PM EDT
[#20]
The only countries in the world to guarantee you citizenship upon birth are the United States of America and Ireland. ALL other countries you must apply for citizenship, even if you were born there.
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Posted: 10/28/2010 3:49:09 PM EDT
[#21]
Quoted:
The only countries in the world to guarantee you citizenship upon birth are the United States of America and Ireland. ALL other countries you must apply for citizenship, even if you were born there. Fitting, since I'm an American who's Grandparents came from Ireland! ETA: Great-Grandparents. |
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Posted: 10/28/2010 3:49:59 PM EDT
[#22]
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
in principle no but reality has shown us that it might not be a bad idea. Don't know what shitty reality you live in, but I guess all of the disabled wouldn't be granted citizenship in your fucked up world. You obviously haven't read the book. The movie was an atrocity. In the book if you were disabled but still desired federal service a position would be found for you. Something to the effect of "counting the hairs on a wooly caterpillars back" (I am paraphrasing). Additionally federal service wasn't limited to the military there were scientific and peace corps like positions IIRC. I waffle back and forth on my views on subject of mandatory military service. When you talk to men who are 50+ years of age nearly all of them are vets. Many of them would have never served without the draft system in place. It brought in a more rounded and balanced portion of the population. Military service became a unifying experience for a large percentage of Americans. I know that personally I met people from places and backgrounds I would have never met in my civilian life. ETA: Heinlein also advocating beating petty criminals in the public square and women in positions of authority (Starship pilots). Pretty forward stuff for 1959. If you haven't read the book it is a good read. No, they've got no time for glory in the Infantry. No, they've got no use for praises loudly sung, But in every soldier's heart in all the Infantry Shines the name, shines the name of Rodger Young. Yep. Don't forget though, the book explains that the system works because it makes violent people part of the system, ensuring that the system will never be opposed. |
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Posted: 10/28/2010 3:50:32 PM EDT
[#23]
Mexico is a failed state.
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Posted: 10/28/2010 3:54:17 PM EDT
[#24]
No.
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Posted: 10/28/2010 3:54:44 PM EDT
[#25]
Quoted:
Would you agree with the notion that Citizenship would not be a right given at birth, but should be earned by actually serving one's Country? YES. |
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Posted: 10/28/2010 3:55:11 PM EDT
[#26]
Quoted:
Mexico is a failed state. I thought they needed a government to be a "failed" state. |
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Posted: 10/28/2010 3:56:36 PM EDT
[#27]
FBO
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Posted: 10/28/2010 4:00:41 PM EDT
[#28]
More than 40 countries recognize jus soli citizenship to one extent or another.
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Posted: 10/28/2010 4:04:18 PM EDT
[#29]
Read some of Heinlein's other works, like The Moon is a Harsh Mistress or Time Enough for Love. Then come back and tell me what you think Heinlein really believed.
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Posted: 10/28/2010 4:06:15 PM EDT
[#30]
"[The Terran Federation] will require you to work. [The Terran Federation] is going to demand that you shed your cynicism. That you put down your divisions. That you come out of your isolation, that you move out of your comfort zones. That you push yourselves to be better. And that you engage. [The Terran Federation] will never allow you to go back to your lives as usual, uninvolved, uninformed." |
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Posted: 10/28/2010 4:08:06 PM EDT
[#31]
Quoted:
"[The Terran Federation] will require you to work. [The Terran Federation] is going to demand that you shed your cynicism. That you put down your divisions. That you come out of your isolation, that you move out of your comfort zones. That you push yourselves to be better. And that you engage. [The Terran Federation] will never allow you to go back to your lives as usual, uninvolved, uninformed."
Sounds like Obama. 
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Posted: 10/28/2010 4:09:29 PM EDT
[#32]
Quoted: Read some of Heinlein's other works, like The Moon is a Harsh Mistress or Time Enough for Love. Then come back and tell me what you think Heinlein really believed. Read his essays in Grumbles from the Grave. Everything else is a gedanken exercise. ETA: Everyone involved in making that movie should be banned to outer Mongolia. |
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Posted: 10/28/2010 4:10:43 PM EDT
[#33]
Quoted:
in principle no but reality has shown us that it might not be a bad idea. This. Just finished the book a few weeks ago. Heinlein makes a strong argument. ETA: Dina >>> Denise |
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Posted: 10/28/2010 4:12:05 PM EDT
[#34]
You really should read the book before commenting
I personally like the idea, you give something to get something. TANSTAAFL and all that However, it would never work under the US Constitution. It would have to take shape under a new government Rob |
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Posted: 10/28/2010 4:12:56 PM EDT
[#35]
Sounds nice in the book but i can't even begin to imagine how fucked up and warped it would become once it got into the hands of real people rather than just one guys mental exercise.
However, i am on board with public beatings of juvenile criminals along with their parents. |
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Posted: 10/28/2010 4:13:25 PM EDT
[#36]
Quoted:
no that's like saying that, in the US, the constitution and bill of rights should only apply to people who have served in the military (besides the fact that there are many other ways to serve a country other than through the military). The Constitution and Bill of Rights exist in order to keep Government restrained. In a system where full Citizenship was only granted to those who had completed service, the human rights of others would still be recognized and respected. Universal suffrage, in my opinion, was a mistake. Consider the following: "[Democracy] ... can only exist until the voters discover that they can vote themselves largesse from the public treasury. From that moment on, the majority always votes for the candidates promising the most benefits from the public treasury with the result that a democracy always collapses over loose fiscal policy, always followed by a dictatorship." |
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Posted: 10/28/2010 4:16:34 PM EDT
[#37]
Yes.
I also believe in a poll tax to prove voters are financially stable. |
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Posted: 10/28/2010 4:21:34 PM EDT
[#38]
Quoted:
Would you agree with the notion that Citizenship would not be a right given at birth, but should be earned by actually serving one's Country? If you are going to ask a question like that then you need to first post pics of hot Italian women.  
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Posted: 10/28/2010 4:26:13 PM EDT
[#39]
No, everyone should have the right to have their voices heard, even if it's something you or I disagree with.
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Posted: 10/28/2010 4:29:44 PM EDT
[#40]
In the book, only veterans could vote. Those who were actively serving were denied the franchise. A lot of people here seem to forget that.
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Posted: 10/28/2010 4:30:56 PM EDT
[#41]
The U.S. government is the current number one employer right?!
I dont think that idea would make much of a difference. Or something like that 
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Posted: 10/28/2010 4:43:26 PM EDT
[#42]
Quoted:
Quoted:
Mexico is a failed state. I thought they needed a government to be a "failed" state. They based a lot of their own constitution on ours. FWIW |
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Posted: 10/28/2010 4:48:36 PM EDT
[#43]
Quoted:
You really should read the book before commenting I personally like the idea, you give something to get something. TANSTAAFL and all that However, it would never work under the US Constitution. It would have to take shape under a new government Rob Gotta disagree there. The US Constitution used to only extend the franchise to land owning white males. Then to all males except negroes, indians, chinamen, etc; then to negroes, too (where not circumvented by a poll tax); then to women; then down to 18 year olds (was 21 until 1971, iirc) All it would take would be a constitutional amendment restricting the right to vote to those who had completed a term of satisfactory federal service - be it military, or peace corps or the new CCC or whatever. |
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Posted: 10/28/2010 5:05:32 PM EDT
[#44]
Quoted:
Would you agree with the notion that Citizenship would not be a right given at birth, but should be earned by actually serving one's Country? Yes, and the service does not have to be military. (Just like in the book.) |
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Posted: 10/28/2010 5:07:05 PM EDT
[#45]
Quoted:
Quoted:
Would you agree with the notion that Citizenship would not be a right given at birth, but should be earned by actually serving one's Country? Yes, and the service does not have to be military. (Just like in the book.) Yes. Like the Book. Exactly like the book. Not like that dumbshit movie. |
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Posted: 10/28/2010 5:07:08 PM EDT
[#46]
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Posted: 10/28/2010 5:12:58 PM EDT
[#47]
Kinda like a kingdom, right....
No |
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Posted: 10/28/2010 5:17:42 PM EDT
[#48]
The book was fascinating, from a political science perspective. remember, though, that Heinlein is not making an argument for the system of government described in the book. It was an experimental view of a radically fascist utopia. It makes you think "hmm, that is a neat idea" but should also make you think "wow, it takes an impressive writer of fiction to get me nodding along with something that the rational part of my brain knows is abhorrent" This is the brilliance of the work, it is like a big juicy guilty pleasure for the political part of your mind.
I do not think you are supposed walk away from the novel thinking "boy, that world-government limited citizenship, rule by military society seems like a good idea." The various discussions of "mathematically provable science of moral justice " demonstrate that this was an exploration of political ideas not an argument for said political ideas. Many of the first readers of Starship Troopers, in the 1950s, found some disturbing congruences between the book, and a fellow who's regime had been in the news a lot a few years before. It was quite controversial. The Moon is a Harsh Mistress, politically, is about as far from Troopers as you can get. Its a libertarian wet dream, and the heros are facing off against the all powerful Terran Federation. |
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Posted: 10/28/2010 5:19:58 PM EDT
[#49]
More Brenda Strong for me please 
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Posted: 10/28/2010 5:21:53 PM EDT
[#50]
We need less people working for the government, not to make it compulsory.
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