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Posted: 8/29/2004 11:15:28 PM EST
[Last Edit: 8/29/2004 11:16:11 PM EST by clean_cut]
It was a small ultra-conservative Baptist church - membership around 300. They say Baptist but they are totally independent; they are not part of the Southern Baptist convention or whatever.

The church moved from Colorado to Texas. When I say church I mean the whole church - all the families just packed up and moved at one time because the men couldn't find work or something in Co.

They teach their own kids in the church. Like homeschool but on a church level. Most of the kids do not attend the local public schools.

The men all call eachother Brother ---, like Brother Butch or whatever.

All the women wear prairie dresses and such fashions.

The preacher is the leader. There is no deacon board he has to answer to. He calls all the shots.

They are very close-knit.



Do any of these things raise concerns with you? Are they leaning toward cultish behavior? This is not some Patriot anti-govt nest I stumbled onto is it?

Overall I like the church. They have been very nice and friendly. Just self-isolating.

Link Posted: 8/29/2004 11:16:33 PM EST
You weren't mean to a witch while you were there were ya?
Link Posted: 8/29/2004 11:17:12 PM EST

Originally Posted By MrClean4Hire:
You weren't mean to a witch while you were there were ya?




??
Link Posted: 8/29/2004 11:18:07 PM EST

Originally Posted By clean_cut:

Originally Posted By MrClean4Hire:
You weren't mean to a witch while you were there were ya?




??




You had to be here bud
Link Posted: 8/29/2004 11:19:43 PM EST
Where the fuck ytou been bitch???


SGatr15
Link Posted: 8/29/2004 11:20:20 PM EST
These questions are mainly for the Christians on the board. A while back I posted about visiting various churches.

I really like this one, but I don't want to get involved with something I'll regret later.

My biggest concern is that they are self-isolating from the rest of society. It's like I step into another world.
Link Posted: 8/29/2004 11:21:30 PM EST
[Last Edit: 8/29/2004 11:23:19 PM EST by clean_cut]

Originally Posted By sgtar15:
Where the fuck ytou been bitch???


SGatr15




I took a break from the site, and from you.


Besides, Pre-Ban has cooler folks, like Imbroglio and C-rock.
Link Posted: 8/29/2004 11:22:49 PM EST
All of those things concern me. I have no problem with them being followers of God, but it sounds like they are a little to sheltered. Why fear the truth?

SGatr15
Link Posted: 8/29/2004 11:22:50 PM EST
religion is the root of ALL evil...
Link Posted: 8/29/2004 11:23:57 PM EST
I visited one of those once. All the male members wore black and the women dressed in long dresses and wore hats. The men sat on one side away from the women. Pastor looked like the parson from poltergeist.
Link Posted: 8/29/2004 11:24:20 PM EST

Originally Posted By John91498:
religion is the root of ALL evil...



The love of money...
Link Posted: 8/29/2004 11:24:28 PM EST
I think that ANY organization that operates like the church you described is a little strange. The kids don't attend public schools, or even larger private schools, which limits their interactions with people that would disagree with the values that the church is trying to uhh.. "instill" in them. The mass moving thing is concerning too.

Having said that, remember that the people at waco, (after the dust settled) were PROVEN in a court of law of not being bad people. They weren't drug dealers, they had NO illegal weapons (none proven to be owned by the Branch Dividians) and were NOT abusing children. They were, however, taken to believing in a very intricate and peculiar dogma that alienated themselves from the rest of the world. It may well be that it was that very inabillity to communicate effectively with negotiators, along with the growing impatience and anger of the FBI, was what lead to them being killed.

I respect anyones right to worship in their chosen faith, but don't put yourself in an intellectual prison to do it.
Link Posted: 8/29/2004 11:24:34 PM EST

Originally Posted By clean_cut:

Originally Posted By sgtar15:
Where the fuck ytou been bitch???


SGatr15




I took a break from the site, and from you.



Please...don't let me run you off...I was just starting to like you.



Besides, Pre-Ban has cooler folks, like Imbroglio and C-rock.



Then again.......


SGtar15


PS Kidding...stick the fuck around this time. Just stop searching for what already is insdie you.
Link Posted: 8/29/2004 11:26:37 PM EST
[Last Edit: 8/29/2004 11:30:17 PM EST by AZ-K9]
Sounds a lot like a certain recent movie.......hmmmmm

Are you the town idiot, by chance?




Link Posted: 8/29/2004 11:27:08 PM EST
[Last Edit: 8/29/2004 11:28:36 PM EST by clean_cut]

Originally Posted By AZ-K9:
Sounds a lot like a certain recent movie.......hmmmmm



Which one?


Oh, you mean "The Village" - didn't see that one. Don't plan to.
Link Posted: 8/29/2004 11:29:01 PM EST
And I thought I had ran someone off.
Link Posted: 8/29/2004 11:30:21 PM EST

Originally Posted By Samhain44:
I think that ANY organization that operates like the church you described is a little strange. The kids don't attend public schools, or even larger private schools, which limits their interactions with people that would disagree with the values that the church is trying to uhh.. "instill" in them. The mass moving thing is concerning too.

Having said that, remember that the people at waco, (after the dust settled) were PROVEN in a court of law of not being bad people. They weren't drug dealers, they had NO illegal weapons (none proven to be owned by the Branch Dividians) and were NOT abusing children. They were, however, taken to believing in a very intricate and peculiar dogma that alienated themselves from the rest of the world. It may well be that it was that very inabillity to communicate effectively with negotiators, along with the growing impatience and anger of the FBI, was what lead to them being killed.

I respect anyones right to worship in their chosen faith, but don't put yourself in an intellectual prison to do it.




Yes, they were indoctrinating their children in their value system all right, shielding them from the rest of the world. I have yet to ascertain if this doctrine is not too far out.
Link Posted: 8/29/2004 11:30:54 PM EST

Originally Posted By Taxman:
And I thought I had ran someone off.




Who, you?
Link Posted: 8/29/2004 11:31:58 PM EST

Originally Posted By clean_cut:

Originally Posted By Taxman:
And I thought I had ran someone off.




Who, you?



I got to put more effort into being an asshole.

You missed all the excitment by the way.
Link Posted: 8/29/2004 11:32:06 PM EST
Seriously, I avoid churches althogether. If I was somehow gonna subscribe to a particular theory, I'd probably be hesitant to join any church that isolates itself to this degree. Use caution.
Link Posted: 8/29/2004 11:32:19 PM EST
Good to see you back BTW, I missed your posts. They were always entertaining.
Link Posted: 8/29/2004 11:33:49 PM EST

Originally Posted By Burley:
Good to see you back BTW, I missed your posts. They were always entertaining.




Thanks. I have been a Pre-Ban regular lately. LivefreeordieNH was there when he was locked out of here.
Link Posted: 8/29/2004 11:46:26 PM EST
[Last Edit: 8/29/2004 11:49:16 PM EST by DieselGirl]

Originally Posted By MrClean4Hire:

You weren't mean to a witch while you were there were ya?




bwwaaahahahahahahahahahaha­hahahahahahahahahahahah!!!
Link Posted: 8/29/2004 11:51:48 PM EST
[Last Edit: 8/30/2004 12:30:39 AM EST by sgtar15]

Originally Posted By AZ-K9:
I'd probably be hesitant to join any church that isolates itself to this degree. Use caution.




agreed. I once asked my priest how he felt about me going to other churches. He replied that the truth will always be the truth and that I should always search for it.


SGatr15
Link Posted: 8/30/2004 12:04:42 AM EST
Anyway, considering my past, a close-knit, insular group has appeal to me right now.
Link Posted: 8/30/2004 12:26:30 AM EST

Originally Posted By clean_cut:
Anyway, considering my past, a close-knit, insular group has appeal to me right now.




Try the Grape KoolAide....I here it is to die for.....



SGtar15
Link Posted: 8/30/2004 1:29:10 AM EST
[Last Edit: 8/30/2004 1:30:05 AM EST by badeffect10]

Originally Posted By sgtar15:

Originally Posted By clean_cut:
Anyway, considering my past, a close-knit, insular group has appeal to me right now.




Try the Grape KoolAide....I here it is to die for.....



SGtar15



+1. Enjoy the punch.

And don't forget, BYORS. ( Bring Your Own Rattle Snake)
Link Posted: 8/30/2004 1:57:50 AM EST
Any situation in which one man sets himself up as the sole authority with no accountability has the potential to be dangerous. That's where some men who had good ministries went bad. They were at the top of their organizations with nobody that they answered to.

In my church there is balance in the leadership. The Bible speaks of the ministry gifts (pastors, teachers, evangelists, aposteles, and prophets). When you have a team with these various gifts there are accountability and order.

For example, my pastor's main gift is prophetic (not like Jean Dixon- the prophets represented God to the people, bringing His word to them). If he says, "I believe God wants the church to do X", then an elder with a gift of teaching (really knowing the Word and understanding its application) will say, "Show me chapter and verse to back that up."

Nothing run by men will be perfect, but the leadership in my church has taken measures to ensure a high degree of accountability.

Back to the church you mentioned, from what you've written I'd probably not go back. It sounds like a situation that is very controlling.
Link Posted: 8/30/2004 2:01:14 AM EST

Originally Posted By clean_cut:
It was a small ultra-conservative Baptist church - membership around 300. They say Baptist but they are totally independent; they are not part of the Southern Baptist convention or whatever.

The church moved from Colorado to Texas. When I say church I mean the whole church - all the families just packed up and moved at one time because the men couldn't find work or something in Co.

They teach their own kids in the church. Like homeschool but on a church level. Most of the kids do not attend the local public schools.

The men all call eachother Brother ---, like Brother Butch or whatever.

All the women wear prairie dresses and such fashions.

The preacher is the leader. There is no deacon board he has to answer to. He calls all the shots.

They are very close-knit.



Do any of these things raise concerns with you? Are they leaning toward cultish behavior? This is not some Patriot anti-govt nest I stumbled onto is it?

Overall I like the church. They have been very nice and friendly. Just self-isolating.




Can you say UTAH?
Link Posted: 8/30/2004 2:03:06 AM EST

Originally Posted By sgtar15:

Originally Posted By clean_cut:
Anyway, considering my past, a close-knit, insular group has appeal to me right now.




Try the Grape KoolAide....I here it is to die for.....



SGtar15


Oh now that's funny.
Link Posted: 8/30/2004 2:10:09 AM EST

Originally Posted By clean_cut:
It was a small ultra-conservative Baptist church - membership around 300. They say Baptist but they are totally independent; they are not part of the Southern Baptist convention or whatever.



Southern Baptist churches are usually independent & autonomous. I've been a member of one for 8 years now.



The church moved from Colorado to Texas. When I say church I mean the whole church - all the families just packed up and moved at one time because the men couldn't find work or something in Co.



and the problem here is?????



They teach their own kids in the church. Like homeschool but on a church level. Most of the kids do not attend the local public schools.



That's terrible. Teaching your kids Christian values, and not letting them be indoctrinated by the liberal public school system! Gasp! They're probably Republicans to boot!




The men all call eachother Brother ---, like Brother Butch or whatever.



That's horrible...

They consider themselves Brothers and Sisters in Christ. Wait a minute. That is what Christ told us to do...



All the women wear prairie dresses and such fashions.



I'd hit it. I like PIE! What's wrong with conservative dress?



The preacher is the leader. There is no deacon board he has to answer to. He calls all the shots.



SB preachers don't answer to deacons. Consult, yes. Church Council has more to do with the operation of the church than Deacons. Deacons are there to serve, not direct.



They are very close-knit.



Most of them are. Shouldn't Churches be?




Do any of these things raise concerns with you? Are they leaning toward cultish behavior? This is not some Patriot anti-govt nest I stumbled onto is it?



We believe that people in government who are put in power, are there because God allows it to happen. I can't speak for the church you're referring to, but mine is very patriotic. Not anti-*.gov but definately against governmental policies that conflict with Biblical teachings. We rarely discuss politics along party lines....more of a comparison of who's trying to accomplish what, and how it coincides or conflicts with the Bible. Republicans usually have an edge....albeit a little one.






Overall I like the church. They have been very nice and friendly. Just self-isolating.




Again. What is wrong with that? What are you afraid of?



Water?????


Link Posted: 8/30/2004 2:37:40 AM EST

Originally Posted By clean_cut:
It was a small ultra-conservative Baptist church - membership around 300. They say Baptist but they are totally independent; they are not part of the Southern Baptist convention or whatever.

The church moved from Colorado to Texas. When I say church I mean the whole church - all the families just packed up and moved at one time because the men couldn't find work or something in Co.

They teach their own kids in the church. Like homeschool but on a church level. Most of the kids do not attend the local public schools.

The men all call eachother Brother ---, like Brother Butch or whatever.

All the women wear prairie dresses and such fashions.

The preacher is the leader. There is no deacon board he has to answer to. He calls all the shots.

They are very close-knit.



Do any of these things raise concerns with you? Are they leaning toward cultish behavior? This is not some Patriot anti-govt nest I stumbled onto is it?

Overall I like the church. They have been very nice and friendly. Just self-isolating.




Calling each other brother is nothing new, as the Apostles did it, and many churches still do.

The whole church moving locations seems very strange to me. I have never seen an entire congregation pick up and move before. That is wierd.

In most churches the pastor is indeed the leader, where the deacons act as a sort of governing council that backs the pastor. The pastor has ultimate authority, but the elders or deacons help in deciding various matters.

In my church there is a district bishop above the pastor, and then a state bishop, and finally the council of 12 bishops, and then a bishop in charge of the entire denomination. Things get more democratic at the very top levels, but the local pastor has a lot of lattitude to operate in.

Independent churches are all the rage, and usually happen when a preacher gets mad at a denomination that tries to bring him to account for some things. Some men are genuinely called to be independent, but many others do it because they want to be accountable to no one. Not being accountable to anyone is not a good idea.
Link Posted: 8/30/2004 2:40:54 AM EST

Originally Posted By clean_cut:

Yes, they were indoctrinating their children in their value system all right, shielding them from the rest of the world. I have yet to ascertain if this doctrine is not too far out.



With all of the abuses that are rampant in public schools these days, I cannot blame anyone for not wanting their children to suffer in that intellectual war zone. If you haven't had children in the publik schools lately, you really don't know how bad they are getting.

Wanting your children to be taught in an environment where Christianity is not undermined constantly, and where actual discipline of children is possible without hysterical teachers calling social services is a perfectly normal thing to desire.

There is a lot in the rest of the world that children SHOULD be sheltered from.
Link Posted: 8/30/2004 2:49:01 AM EST

Originally Posted By John_Wayne777:
There is a lot in the rest of the world that children SHOULD be sheltered from.



Can I get an "Amen" here????

Link Posted: 8/30/2004 3:01:05 AM EST

Originally Posted By clean_cut:
It was a small ultra-conservative Baptist church - membership around 300. They say Baptist but they are totally independent; they are not part of the Southern Baptist convention or whatever.

The church moved from Colorado to Texas. When I say church I mean the whole church - all the families just packed up and moved at one time because the men couldn't find work or something in Co.

They teach their own kids in the church. Like homeschool but on a church level. Most of the kids do not attend the local public schools.



NO ONE is more agaisnt public schools than me, and I was educated in private Christian schools, but this sounds a bit cultish to me.


The men all call eachother Brother ---, like Brother Butch or whatever.

All the women wear prairie dresses and such fashions.



As does this.


The preacher is the leader. There is no deacon board he has to answer to. He calls all the shots.


The Bible indicates there SHOULD be both deacons and elders as so-called "assistant pastors." The pastor is NOT God's oracle, and a group of 300 people need more than ONE GUY to effectively minister to them.




They are very close-knit.


Close knit is good. Reclusive or closed off from society is NOT good. While the Bible indicates Christians are not to be like the world, it DOES indicate we are to be IN the world - amongst them, not hiding in closed groups.

Which is why I hang out with the reprobates here.



Overall I like the church. They have been very nice and friendly. Just self-isolating.




The Gospel of Jesus Christ is NOT to be hid from the world. Figger our just how isolated they are.

Link Posted: 8/30/2004 3:02:52 AM EST

Originally Posted By a3kid:

Originally Posted By John_Wayne777:
There is a lot in the rest of the world that children SHOULD be sheltered from.



Can I get an "Amen" here????



Why should any one be sheltered?
Link Posted: 8/30/2004 3:05:09 AM EST

Originally Posted By olyarms:

Originally Posted By a3kid:

Originally Posted By John_Wayne777:
There is a lot in the rest of the world that children SHOULD be sheltered from.



Can I get an "Amen" here????



Why should any one be sheltered?



There are good reasons to shelter children from things until they are of age to deal with adult issues.

Are you up for showing PRON to 10 year old kids?

Why not?

Sheltering is wrong?
Link Posted: 8/30/2004 3:12:31 AM EST
I am a pastor and that situation sends up red flags all over the place.

Be careful.

There are legalistic, spiritually abusive churches out there that can really shipwreck a person spiritually.

Patsue
Link Posted: 8/30/2004 3:12:39 AM EST

Originally Posted By a3kid:

Originally Posted By olyarms:

Originally Posted By a3kid:

Originally Posted By John_Wayne777:
There is a lot in the rest of the world that children SHOULD be sheltered from.



Can I get an "Amen" here????



Why should any one be sheltered?



There are good reasons to shelter children from things until they are of age to deal with adult issues.

Are you up for showing PRON to 10 year old kids?

Why not?

Sheltering is wrong?



Protected and educated =yes.

SHeltered=no

Sooner or later they will have to face the real world. This Church sounds like it is controlling their members by not allowing ANY outside input. If they trust in their message then they should trust in their members.


YMMV


Sgtar15
Link Posted: 8/30/2004 3:18:32 AM EST

Originally Posted By sgtar15:

Originally Posted By a3kid:

Originally Posted By olyarms:

Originally Posted By a3kid:

Originally Posted By John_Wayne777:
There is a lot in the rest of the world that children SHOULD be sheltered from.



Can I get an "Amen" here????



Why should any one be sheltered?



There are good reasons to shelter children from things until they are of age to deal with adult issues.

Are you up for showing PRON to 10 year old kids?

Why not?

Sheltering is wrong?






Protected and educated =yes.

SHeltered=no



You know what I'm talking about sarge.



Sooner or later they will have to face the real world. This Church sounds like it is controlling their members by not allowing ANY outside input. If they trust in their message then they should trust in their members.



I didn't get that message when I read his post. The better question to ask, IMHO, is "Are the things that the Church is teaching Biblical or not?" That's the bottom line.



YMMV


Sgtar15



I guess everybody's does!
Link Posted: 8/30/2004 3:28:00 AM EST

Originally Posted By sgtar15:
The better question to ask, IMHO, is "Are the things that the Church is teaching Biblical or not?" That's the bottom line.

Sgtar15





EXACTLY.

Does what the church teaches jive with Scripture??

Well, said SGtar15.

Link Posted: 8/30/2004 3:32:43 AM EST

Originally Posted By clean_cut:
It was a small ultra-conservative Baptist church - membership around 300. They say Baptist but they are totally independent; they are not part of the Southern Baptist convention or whatever.

The church moved from Colorado to Texas. When I say church I mean the whole church - all the families just packed up and moved at one time because the men couldn't find work or something in Co.

They teach their own kids in the church. Like homeschool but on a church level. Most of the kids do not attend the local public schools.

The men all call eachother Brother ---, like Brother Butch or whatever.

All the women wear prairie dresses and such fashions.

The preacher is the leader. There is no deacon board he has to answer to. He calls all the shots.

They are very close-knit.



Do any of these things raise concerns with you? Are they leaning toward cultish behavior? This is not some Patriot anti-govt nest I stumbled onto is it?

Overall I like the church. They have been very nice and friendly. Just self-isolating.




BULLSHIT!

RUN, FOREST! RUN!
Link Posted: 8/30/2004 3:33:00 AM EST

Originally Posted By garandman:

Originally Posted By sgtar15:
The better question to ask, IMHO, is "Are the things that the Church is teaching Biblical or not?" That's the bottom line.

Sgtar15





EXACTLY.

Does what the church teaches jive with Scripture??

Well, said SGtar15.







And that's what you get when yu screw up the board code.

That response was, ummmmm.... mine.
Link Posted: 8/30/2004 3:33:10 AM EST
Link Posted: 8/30/2004 3:33:30 AM EST

Originally Posted By garandman:

Originally Posted By sgtar15:
The better question to ask, IMHO, is "Are the things that the Church is teaching Biblical or not?" That's the bottom line.

Sgtar15





EXACTLY.

Does what the church teaches jive with Scripture??

Well, said SGtar15.






To bad I didn't say it.........


SGatr15
Link Posted: 8/30/2004 3:34:16 AM EST

Originally Posted By sgtar15:

Originally Posted By garandman:

Originally Posted By sgtar15:
The better question to ask, IMHO, is "Are the things that the Church is teaching Biblical or not?" That's the bottom line.

Sgtar15





EXACTLY.

Does what the church teaches jive with Scripture??

Well, said SGtar15.






To bad I didn't say it.........


SGatr15



LOL...
Link Posted: 8/30/2004 3:47:02 AM EST
I was surprised SGtar15 said that.

I hereby remove my attaboy from SGtar15, and give it to A3kid.

Link Posted: 8/30/2004 3:48:11 AM EST
[Last Edit: 8/30/2004 4:27:36 AM EST by Tanker06]

Does what the church teaches jive with Scripture??

This should be one of the prime deciding factors (above)

I agree with Stokes, in that it sounds like a German Baptist congregation. (The sexes sitting on
opposite sides of the aisle from one another, the dress, the "Brother" or "Sister" addressing...)

This is actually interesting, in that I've run across references to some of my ancestors having gone
to such a church while doing my family history, but I hadn't run across any churches today who still
adhered to this....

The entire congregation up & moving sounds kind of strange. Can you find out where they moved from
in CO? I have quite a few contacts out there who might be able to give me some insight into past
dealings with this church.

I can't say that I disagree with the church schooling their children themselves, as my daughter is
in a private church school. But 100% isolation from the rest of society isn't necessarily a good
thing either.

In the end though, each person must decide how he or she wants to worship, so if you are
comfortable with the way they do things, keep attending. Keep an open mind, but be cautious, as
this does set off several 'uh-oh!' alarms at the same time.
Link Posted: 8/30/2004 3:49:29 AM EST

Originally Posted By garandman:
I was surprised SGtar15 said that.

I hereby remove my attaboy from SGtar15, and give it to A3kid.




Much obliged, Gman.
Link Posted: 8/30/2004 3:51:41 AM EST

Originally Posted By a3kid:

Much obliged, Gman.




You been missing for about a year, it seems. Or maybe *** I ***** was missing for about a year or so.

All's well, I trust??

Link Posted: 8/30/2004 3:54:01 AM EST

Originally Posted By garandman:

Originally Posted By a3kid:

Much obliged, Gman.




You been missing for about a year, it seems. Or maybe *** I ***** was missing for about a year or so.

All's well, I trust??




I've been around, reading more than posting.

Things are going ok. Teenagers have given me a bit of rest lately. ::whew::

I was about out of hair to pull out for a while there....

What don't kill, maim or disfigure you makes you stronger.
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