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9/22/2017 12:11:25 AM
Posted: 4/2/2006 1:42:09 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 4/7/2006 11:11:13 AM EDT by migunner]
Yesterday my best friend dave who is in the marines came back from iraq. We were having a welcome home party for him with all of his good friends, drinking and just having a good time. At about 2am his parents wanted us to go down the street to another good friends house so they good could go to bed. Evidently one of my friends told some guy who was doing about 45-50mph in a 25 zone to slow it down. At this point about 15 people are walking out my friends door. The guy gets out of his truck takes off his shirt (its cold i live in michigan lol) and starts pushing one of my friends so my friend backs up and everyone is just telling this guy to get the f**k outta their and his friend is out of the truck now yelling stuff at a group of 15 guys who could easily give them the ass kicking of their lives. None of my friends wanted to do anything since they had been drinking and didnt want to deal with the consequences of hurting someone. I'm quite surprised at this time no one layed these 2 guys out yet. So the guy is yelling stuff and says something like ill fuck you all up and opens up the tool box on the back of his truck and starts to pull out a dry wall saw, at this time he and his friend get a face full of Fox labs Oc compliments of me. He drops the knife as soon as I spray him and they are yelling and screaming now, They somehow manage to get back in the truck and drive away. I didnt get the 2nd guy that good but the guy with the knife got a facefull. The whole time this is happening my friends dad is snapping pics of these guys and everything going down with his digital camera. Do you think i reacted in the appropiate way here?

I contacted the police and they said a detective will be contacting me today or tomorrow. I feel i was completely justified in using the OC spray. Also one of my friends has the dry wall knife/saw the guy dropped. Should i press charges if the time arrises?

I guess we can be lucky my huge Drunken marine friend was in the room with his gf at the time and missed everything. Since it would have been messy had he been their.

Added: Im also concerned since I'm pretty sure these guys live in my general area. I'm not sure if the OC spray was enough to teach thema lesson, or enough to get them really pissed off. I guess ill just have to watch my 6 and hope for the best.


UPDATE: I talked to the detective today in depth about this whole incident the other people had the choice to press charges on me? I dont know wtf for and i had the option to press charges on them. He asked me if i was aware of the MI duty to retreat laws and i told him how have a ccw and i was aware of that law. He claims i had the duty to retreat, and even though he said he would have done the same thing in the situation it could go either way in court. I was under the impression duty to retreat was only used for deadly force? Are you telling me if someone pulls a gun out on me im not justified to shoot back with out first retreating? Wtf is going on here... I told him i felt my life was in danger and others lives and he said i still had the duty to try and leave the situation before using OC spray... Was this sgt at my local Pd misinformed? Fuck retreating I'm not going to run away from guy with a knife if i have the option to use OC spray 1st, my luck he would throw the knife and get me in back as i ran away.
Link Posted: 4/2/2006 1:46:24 PM EDT
wow. assuming this isn't a bunch of bullshit, good spray.
Link Posted: 4/2/2006 1:47:36 PM EDT
Nice first post for a

Link Posted: 4/2/2006 1:47:54 PM EDT
bet they wont do that again for a little while.


welcome to the board.
Link Posted: 4/2/2006 1:49:19 PM EDT
Hell of a first post.....I'll give ya that.

Link Posted: 4/2/2006 1:49:31 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 4/2/2006 1:50:03 PM EDT by migunner]
Its not bull shit and im not trolling. Just hoping to reassure myself i did the right thing. The fact that i was drinking does not make any difference does it? Thanks
Link Posted: 4/2/2006 1:49:54 PM EDT
guy goes for a weapon, fucking yeah that was a good spray. Press full charges when the time comes.
Link Posted: 4/2/2006 1:49:55 PM EDT
Hell ya you did the right thing. Hope his retinas sting for a couple of days.

I'm getting ready to have a little vigilante justice in my neighbor hood. Every day there's cars doing 45 in our posted 25mph zone and we've got kids all over the place around here. I'm thinking a little commando paintball to the cars might do the trick, just have to crank up the pressure on my paintball marker. Should some dumbass decide it's worth fighting over, let's just say he'll be in for more than he bargained for.

Good job with the OC
Link Posted: 4/2/2006 1:52:33 PM EDT
Did you put the drywall saw in plastic bag to preserve finger prints?

Link Posted: 4/2/2006 1:54:31 PM EDT
Lets see large group of partying people, alochol, verbal exchange with people at 2am.
What trailer park you live in.
That being said, Welcome you buddy back and that him for his service.
When the asshat produced the drywall knife he took it to a level that could have gotten out of hand fast.
I see multiple wrongs here, but given the possiblities, no one went to jail Yet. no one was injuried.
Next time keep the party inside, limit the alochol and tell your buddies to keep there mouth shut.
The pictures of incident, if they show the asshat with the knife can be your friend or they can hang you.
Link Posted: 4/2/2006 1:56:11 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 4/2/2006 2:01:00 PM EDT by Maxwell71]
Dad took pics?
Ummmmm, Where are the pics.
Not saying you are not telling the truth but come on, I want to see the pics


Link Posted: 4/2/2006 1:56:45 PM EDT

Originally Posted By 04hemi:
Hell ya you did the right thing. Hope his retinas sting for a couple of days.

I'm getting ready to have a little vigilante justice in my neighbor hood. Every day there's cars doing 45 in our posted 25mph zone and we've got kids all over the place around here. I'm thinking a little commando paintball to the cars might do the trick, just have to crank up the pressure on my paintball marker. Should some dumbass decide it's worth fighting over, let's just say he'll be in for more than he bargained for.

Good job with the OC



That is a horrible idea. It does not matter what that person did, you never ever mess with another mans car. His car and his wife. Those two things should be respected.
Dont do anything stupid because you think it will get them to slow down. Think about it logically, if you are driving down the road and all of a sudden paintballs start breaking on your hood and windshield are you going to slow down and find out what is going on? More than likely you will haul ass worsening the speeding problem on your street.


And yes you were justified.
James
Link Posted: 4/2/2006 1:56:53 PM EDT
Gave him a full power-shot, did you?
Link Posted: 4/2/2006 1:59:29 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Bama-Shooter:
Did you put the drywall saw in plastic bag to preserve finger prints?




No i was not the one to pick it up. So the prints wont be any good on it. Im pretty sure my friends dad has pictures of the guy holding it. To the guy who asked what trailer park... Im 21 as our most of my friends and we are mostly college students who either live with our parents or in a apartments. We were only outside to move the party about 5 houses away so my buddies parents could get some sleep.
Link Posted: 4/2/2006 1:59:40 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 4/2/2006 2:00:19 PM EDT by chips]

Originally Posted By snarfbatt:
Lets see large group of partying people, alochol, verbal exchange with people at 2am.
What trailer park you live in.

you'd bes suprised. this has happened to me and my friends on more than one occasion in fairly nice neigborhoods...

ETA: but it never escalated beyond verbal engagements.


and yes, good spray.
Link Posted: 4/2/2006 2:00:22 PM EDT
Frankly I wouldn't be talking about this on a open forum till I spoke to the lawyer.
Link Posted: 4/2/2006 2:02:53 PM EDT

Originally Posted By snarfbatt:
Lets see large group of partying people, alochol, verbal exchange with people at 2am.
What trailer park you live in.
That being said, Welcome you buddy back and that him for his service.
When the asshat produced the drywall knife he took it to a level that could have gotten out of hand fast.
I see multiple wrongs here, but given the possiblities, no one went to jail Yet. no one was injuried.
Next time keep the party inside, limit the alochol and tell your buddies to keep there mouth shut.
The pictures of incident, if they show the asshat with the knife can be your friend or they can hang you.



If i wasent able to,id hope someone on my street would tell someone going 50 in a 25 to slow down.
Link Posted: 4/2/2006 2:04:48 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Maxwell71:
Dad took pics?
Ummmmm, Where are the pics.
Not saying you are not telling the truth but come on, I want to see the pics




Not agood idea if its a factual thread and the investigation is pending.

I am still waiting for the response thread from the AR15 poster about how he and his buddies were peacefully going down the road and some nut on the curb sprayed him with OC and stole his tools out of his vehicle.
Link Posted: 4/2/2006 2:05:03 PM EDT

Originally Posted By twonami:
Frankly I wouldn't be talking about this on a open forum till I spoke to the lawyer.



I usually wouldnt but under the cirumstances All i said was the truth. It will come out to all involved sooner or later.
Link Posted: 4/2/2006 2:10:12 PM EDT

Originally Posted By sixgunsblazing:
Nice first post for a





Classy arnt you.
Link Posted: 4/2/2006 2:15:58 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 4/2/2006 2:16:20 PM EDT by Tromatic]
I've always read that Fox Labs is the best. Maybe not, if the dude drove away. Regarding the booze, yes, you are going to get BF'ed when the guy takes you to court and it's his sober word against your intoxicated mob.
Link Posted: 4/2/2006 2:22:15 PM EDT

Originally Posted By 04hemi:
Hell ya you did the right thing. Hope his retinas sting for a couple of days.

I'm getting ready to have a little vigilante justice in my neighbor hood. Every day there's cars doing 45 in our posted 25mph zone and we've got kids all over the place around here. I'm thinking a little commando paintball to the cars might do the trick, just have to crank up the pressure on my paintball marker. Should some dumbass decide it's worth fighting over, let's just say he'll be in for more than he bargained for.

Good job with the OC



Just be careful, you could end up in the morgue if the stars line up just right.
Link Posted: 4/2/2006 2:31:05 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Tromatic:
I've always read that Fox Labs is the best. Maybe not, if the dude drove away. Regarding the booze, yes, you are going to get BF'ed when the guy takes you to court and it's his sober word against your intoxicated mob.



He was obviously wasted on something, if memory serves i beleive they even had wristbands on that the local bar provideS. With the time being around 2am and bars closing at 2am it wouldnt be very hard to prove the point that they were both intoxicated, just by their erratic actions. Chances are a the trashy looking guys driving a ratty pickup truck with a tool box mounted on it already binge drinked the memory away. I bet right now they are tryin to figure out why thier eyes burn from when their face sweats.
Link Posted: 4/2/2006 3:16:57 PM EDT
Minus the knife bit I was the truck guy growing up . I had a bad problem with talking mucho shit to large groups of people . I held my own quite afew times , but I got the shit kicked out of me quite a few times also .
Link Posted: 4/2/2006 3:22:44 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Tromatic:
I've always read that Fox Labs is the best. Maybe not, if the dude drove away.



i'm real curious about this too. got them with OC but they were able to function enough to drive off? i woulda assumed a some groveling and drooling for a few minutes at least.. if they can drive off they can attack..

so whats the consensus on this stuff..

i would much prefer to use something like this on someone instead of a baseball bat (assuming firearm usage is completely unncessary in the situation).

Link Posted: 4/2/2006 3:29:41 PM EDT

Originally Posted By st0newall:

Originally Posted By Tromatic:
I've always read that Fox Labs is the best. Maybe not, if the dude drove away.



i'm real curious about this too. got them with OC but they were able to function enough to drive off? i woulda assumed a some groveling and drooling for a few minutes at least.. if they can drive off they can attack..

so whats the consensus on this stuff..

i would much prefer to use something like this on someone instead of a baseball bat (assuming firearm usage is completely unncessary in the situation).




Ever see the cops episode where the driver gets sprayed and he drives off ? The passenger took control of the wheel while the driver floored it
Link Posted: 4/2/2006 3:30:42 PM EDT
Bet ya this guy is dead within the week.

Drywall saw. Man, that's a pretty bad way to go. RIP dude.
Link Posted: 4/2/2006 3:33:26 PM EDT
This is right up there with the chainsaw in a bar story.
Link Posted: 4/2/2006 3:44:56 PM EDT
Spray was definitely appropriate. If he's picking up a weapon then even a firearm would be an appropriate response (however much more legal entangling).
Link Posted: 4/2/2006 3:49:56 PM EDT

Originally Posted By migunner:
.... The whole time this is happening my friends dad is snapping pics of these guys and everything going down with his digital camera. ....



Link Posted: 4/2/2006 3:54:01 PM EDT
Once again, nothing good happens late at night, especially when drinking is involved. yeah, yeah maybe not the two perps.......
Link Posted: 4/2/2006 3:56:43 PM EDT

Originally Posted By AyeGuy:
Bet ya this guy is dead within the week.

Drywall saw. Man, that's a pretty bad way to go. RIP dude.



ah.. what did i miss.. guy goes for the saw, gets sprayed, gets in his truck and leaves... who got 'sawed'?
Link Posted: 4/2/2006 4:34:35 PM EDT
Another vote for good spray.

I've been in similiar situations before, and honestly many time a good shot of pepper spray will keep things from getting more out of hand.

Plus, watching people get pepper sprayed is ALWAYS entertaining .

Link Posted: 4/2/2006 5:03:46 PM EDT
You did good.

I would consider investing in a handgun, training and CHL... They might want more.
Link Posted: 4/2/2006 5:05:17 PM EDT

Originally Posted By st0newall:

Originally Posted By AyeGuy:
Bet ya this guy is dead within the week.

Drywall saw. Man, that's a pretty bad way to go. RIP dude.



ah.. what did i miss.. guy goes for the saw, gets sprayed, gets in his truck and leaves... who got 'sawed'?



They live in the neighborhood. They will hunt him down then kill him. With the saw.
Link Posted: 4/2/2006 5:11:51 PM EDT
NO PICS?




Link Posted: 4/2/2006 5:30:14 PM EDT
Based on the side of the story you present, it appears to be a good spray.
Link Posted: 4/3/2006 12:34:43 AM EDT
To expand a little on the don't mess with list. Don't mess with his car his woman or his dog. In fact the dog is usually first on the list. You can always get another car or women but a good dog is irreplaceable.

According to some guys Texas should also show up way down on the Don't Mess with list.
Link Posted: 4/3/2006 12:36:37 AM EDT
If you had shot him this would be a valid question.
Link Posted: 4/3/2006 12:59:10 AM EDT
If he was drunk and it was dark he proabaly will not recognize you..
Im glad you decided to drink and leave the guns somehwere else probally the wiset thing you could of done.
Link Posted: 4/3/2006 4:46:22 AM EDT
Link Posted: 4/3/2006 5:07:31 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 4/3/2006 5:08:08 AM EDT by mr_wilson]
oops
Link Posted: 4/3/2006 5:16:24 AM EDT

Originally Posted By XDBACKUPGUN:
NO PICS?







What he said.
Link Posted: 4/3/2006 5:19:48 AM EDT
I'm so glad I'm no longer involved in that scene.

Somehow I'll bet there is another side to the story that doesn't involve a mob of drunks just being all friendly and asking nicely for the crazy man to slow down. Still, he was in the wrong to stop and create a confrontation. He was probably looking for a chance to show what a mna he is.

You probably did right. Assuming this is for real that is.
Link Posted: 4/3/2006 5:32:53 AM EDT


Jist to cover my arse, if this happened in GA I would pepper my police stayement with variations of " I feared for my life and grave injury and as well as my friends' " and never mention "teaching someone a lesson". Those are helpful words when justifying use of force -- I would imgine even when the force is less than lethal.


good luck and post pics when you can.
Link Posted: 4/3/2006 6:26:50 AM EDT

Originally Posted By schwindj:

Originally Posted By 04hemi:
Hell ya you did the right thing. Hope his retinas sting for a couple of days.

I'm getting ready to have a little vigilante justice in my neighbor hood. Every day there's cars doing 45 in our posted 25mph zone and we've got kids all over the place around here. I'm thinking a little commando paintball to the cars might do the trick, just have to crank up the pressure on my paintball marker. Should some dumbass decide it's worth fighting over, let's just say he'll be in for more than he bargained for.

Good job with the OC



That is a horrible idea. It does not matter what that person did, you never ever mess with another mans car. His car and his wife. Those two things should be respected.
Dont do anything stupid because you think it will get them to slow down. Think about it logically, if you are driving down the road and all of a sudden paintballs start breaking on your hood and windshield are you going to slow down and find out what is going on? More than likely you will haul ass worsening the speeding problem on your street.


And yes you were justified.
James


Yeah, that's just about the stupidest idea I've ever heard. You shouldn't own a paintball gun.

That's something I would have considered when I was 9 years old.
Link Posted: 4/3/2006 6:28:00 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 4/3/2006 6:30:09 AM EDT by migunner]

Originally Posted By BLY:
You did good.

I would consider investing in a handgun, training and CHL... They might want more.



Already done. Daily carry g26 in milt sparks vm2 with double tap 124grn. I was knew i was going to be drinking and being that it was a marines welcome home party it wasnt even on my mind. Thankfully the situation ended when it did or i would be kicking myself in the ass if a situation arose where i needed it .

For those asking for pics im in the process of getting them later today from my friends father. Depending on how *good* or *bad* they are i may post them.
Link Posted: 4/3/2006 6:36:26 AM EDT

Originally Posted By CAR-10:

Originally Posted By 04hemi:
Hell ya you did the right thing. Hope his retinas sting for a couple of days.

I'm getting ready to have a little vigilante justice in my neighbor hood. Every day there's cars doing 45 in our posted 25mph zone and we've got kids all over the place around here. I'm thinking a little commando paintball to the cars might do the trick, just have to crank up the pressure on my paintball marker. Should some dumbass decide it's worth fighting over, let's just say he'll be in for more than he bargained for.

Good job with the OC



Just be careful, you could end up in the morgue if the stars line up just right.



Why be careful? I say have at it. Let nature take it's course with this mental giant. She may just have a surprise in store for him.
Link Posted: 4/3/2006 6:48:14 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Grunteled:

Originally Posted By CAR-10:

Originally Posted By 04hemi:
Hell ya you did the right thing. Hope his retinas sting for a couple of days.

I'm getting ready to have a little vigilante justice in my neighbor hood. Every day there's cars doing 45 in our posted 25mph zone and we've got kids all over the place around here. I'm thinking a little commando paintball to the cars might do the trick, just have to crank up the pressure on my paintball marker. Should some dumbass decide it's worth fighting over, let's just say he'll be in for more than he bargained for.

Good job with the OC



Just be careful, you could end up in the morgue if the stars line up just right.



Why be careful? I say have at it. Let nature take it's course with this mental giant. She may just have a surprise in store for him.


No... it gives paintballers a bad reputation (seriously). Just as if an asshat used his AR-15 to shoot out the tires of cars that were speeding.

I say he should just jump in front of the cars to make them slow down. At least then it'll increase the odds of them slowing down. Test their stoping distances... but don't back down. Think Red Square.
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