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Posted: 12/5/2014 11:23:53 PM EST
Link Posted: 12/5/2014 11:38:16 PM EST
Jesus......

It just wasn't their day to die.
Link Posted: 12/5/2014 11:43:46 PM EST
[Last Edit: 12/5/2014 11:44:15 PM EST by M-60]
Meh...

I little epoxy and some duct tape, good to go.


Or...


I'll bet that jiggled some sacks...
Link Posted: 12/5/2014 11:44:38 PM EST
Link Posted: 12/6/2014 12:00:05 AM EST
Ruh oh. That looks like a complete skin delam with only the leading edge intact.
Link Posted: 12/6/2014 12:23:22 AM EST
They probably ought to leave a door open to air the cabin out.
Link Posted: 12/6/2014 8:32:29 AM EST
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Originally Posted By JS98010:
They probably ought to leave a door open to air the cabin out.
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And replace the seat cushions due to bite marks.

Nice job putting that down.
Link Posted: 12/6/2014 8:38:21 AM EST
No I know why those guys fly so low over my house on the weekends........don't have as far to fall!
Link Posted: 12/6/2014 11:23:20 AM EST
Looks exactly like my Syma 107g. You can get a little more use out of it with judicious use of 5 min epoxy.
Link Posted: 12/6/2014 12:17:28 PM EST
[Last Edit: 12/6/2014 12:21:14 PM EST by QUIB]
The guard is determining their options for moving the aircraft.
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Lowboy that pig!


ETA: And when it takes up residence in the corner of the hangar, toss this up on the MR hub.....

Link Posted: 12/6/2014 12:24:59 PM EST
Dumb question:

What are helicopter rotors made of?
Link Posted: 12/6/2014 12:30:03 PM EST
[Last Edit: 12/6/2014 12:30:50 PM EST by QUIB]
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Originally Posted By BigW1stCav:
Dumb question:

What are helicopter rotors made of?
View Quote



Link Posted: 12/6/2014 12:38:18 PM EST
Why not truck in a new blade and bolt it to the rotor head? Fly it back to base carefully for a full engineering tear down and eval.
Link Posted: 12/6/2014 12:44:00 PM EST
[Last Edit: 12/6/2014 1:10:43 PM EST by QUIB]
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Originally Posted By GeorgiaBII:
Why not truck in a new blade and bolt it to the rotor head? Fly it back to base carefully for a full engineering tear down and eval.
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It's not quite that simple.

Such a catastrophic failure of a blade induces some serious vibration. There could very well be damage elsewhere to the aircraft as a result of those vibrations. Safest bet.....lowboy that sucker (or sling load it) home for correct maintenance.

But had the circumstances been different, and the bird simply needed a new blade for reasons other than this, then yes, a new blade could be trucked in, replaced in the field, tracked and balanced, rotor smoothing completed, and flown home.

ETA: From personal experience.....AH-1 Cobra M/R strikes tree during gunnery exercise, resulting in large baseball sized dent in leading edge of blade. Aircraft is trucked back to hangar for sudden stoppage and blade strike inspections along with resulting maintenance. Could it be done in the field? Sure it can. During peacetime, is it more economical to truck back to the hangar to inspect and repair? Sure it is.


Link Posted: 12/6/2014 1:36:54 PM EST
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Originally Posted By QUIB:
Originally Posted By BigW1stCav:
Dumb question:

What are helicopter rotors made of?



http://www.sikorskyarchives.com/images/images%20S-76/S76-11%20-%20Copy.jpg


Thank you. Were they always of a similar configuration, or did early blades begin solid?
Link Posted: 12/6/2014 2:01:43 PM EST
[Last Edit: 12/6/2014 2:06:58 PM EST by QUIB]
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Originally Posted By BigW1stCav:


Thank you. Were they always of a similar configuration, or did early blades begin solid?
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Originally Posted By BigW1stCav:
Originally Posted By QUIB:
Originally Posted By BigW1stCav:
Dumb question:

What are helicopter rotors made of?



http://www.sikorskyarchives.com/images/images%20S-76/S76-11%20-%20Copy.jpg


Thank you. Were they always of a similar configuration, or did early blades begin solid?



Blade design has evolved over the years, like anything else. Fabric covered ribs, solid wood and like most blades today, honeycomb composite.

ETA: Here you go......http://www.helicoptermaintenancemagazine.com/article/wood-composite-materials-evolution-rotor-blade
Link Posted: 12/6/2014 6:49:02 PM EST
That's something I've never seen before, glad the crew landed safely. I have seen one of our Blackhawks after a power line wire strike and the crew was also able to land safely.
Link Posted: 12/6/2014 10:27:52 PM EST
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Originally Posted By QUIB:
Originally Posted By BigW1stCav:
Dumb question:

What are helicopter rotors made of?



http://www.sikorskyarchives.com/images/images%20S-76/S76-11%20-%20Copy.jpg


Neat illustration. The company I work for makes the titanium spar material. We were told a while back that the US military blackhawks (and I suppose the seahawks and jayhawks) would be eliminating the titanium spar box, and be all non-metal composites. Only foreign sales were still supposed to get the blades with the Ti spar.
We also make the Ti for the CH-53s.
Link Posted: 12/7/2014 9:20:54 AM EST
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Originally Posted By JQ66:


Neat illustration. The company I work for makes the titanium spar material. We were told a while back that the US military blackhawks (and I suppose the seahawks and jayhawks) would be eliminating the titanium spar box, and be all non-metal composites. Only foreign sales were still supposed to get the blades with the Ti spar.
We also make the Ti for the CH-53s.
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Originally Posted By JQ66:
Originally Posted By QUIB:
Originally Posted By BigW1stCav:
Dumb question:

What are helicopter rotors made of?



http://www.sikorskyarchives.com/images/images%20S-76/S76-11%20-%20Copy.jpg


Neat illustration. The company I work for makes the titanium spar material. We were told a while back that the US military blackhawks (and I suppose the seahawks and jayhawks) would be eliminating the titanium spar box, and be all non-metal composites. Only foreign sales were still supposed to get the blades with the Ti spar.
We also make the Ti for the CH-53s.



Interesting info, thanks.

I've had the opportunity to visit a blade repair shop run by a major helicopter mfgr. Pretty interesting stuff.
Link Posted: 12/7/2014 1:48:10 PM EST
EEEEEK!

Back fell off.
Link Posted: 12/7/2014 10:19:14 PM EST
I'd love to buy the pilot a beer. Helluva a stick, to put that on the ground right-side up.
Link Posted: 12/7/2014 10:23:28 PM EST
This is an easy fix. Get a dremel tool and do the same thing to the opposite blade!

Link Posted: 12/7/2014 10:35:28 PM EST
Are there strip heaters on the leading edges for ice removal? Is it a weeping wing style?
Link Posted: 12/8/2014 3:23:27 AM EST
Dang

Good job putting that down safely!

Link Posted: 12/8/2014 3:42:00 AM EST
Link Posted: 12/8/2014 3:45:38 AM EST
[Last Edit: 12/8/2014 3:46:48 AM EST by InfiniteGrim]
Meh, the strong part is still intact.


Can a CH-47 pick that up as, or do they need to strip some weight first?
Link Posted: 12/8/2014 3:48:18 AM EST
Link Posted: 12/8/2014 5:07:50 AM EST
BDAR time!

Bust out the 100mph tape.


Link Posted: 12/8/2014 7:48:53 AM EST
Those blades have a metal spar that takes the centrifugal load, the entire missing area is just composite airfoil and not structural. Heating is electric on the leading edge only. The blades on a blackhawk were designed to take heavy damage like that without coming apart. Even bullet holes through the spar won't make the blades come apart.

That missing material is probably a few dozen pounds off the 200lb blade which would make for some extreme vibrations. The aircraft will fly just like it always does though. Good chance of structural damage to the airframe with that much vibration.
Link Posted: 12/8/2014 4:48:24 PM EST
Link Posted: 12/8/2014 11:18:20 PM EST
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Originally Posted By CFII:


Im pretty sure it uses bleed air, but a hawk guy will be along eventually I am sure.
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Originally Posted By CFII:
Originally Posted By rleonard:
Are there strip heaters on the leading edges for ice removal? Is it a weeping wing style?


Im pretty sure it uses bleed air, but a hawk guy will be along eventually I am sure.


It's been 20 years plus since I've been around a 'Hawk, and I wasn't a 'Hawk guy, but I think they're bleed air as well.


Link Posted: 12/9/2014 7:16:37 AM EST
Link Posted: 12/9/2014 1:08:33 PM EST
Well I guess that blade is not going back to the blade shop. I have about 14 years of maintenance experience with Black Hawk Helicopters and have never seen a blade do that.
Link Posted: 12/10/2014 7:49:17 PM EST
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Originally Posted By M-60:


It's been 20 years plus since I've been around a 'Hawk, and I wasn't a 'Hawk guy, but I think they're bleed air as well.


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Originally Posted By M-60:
Originally Posted By CFII:
Originally Posted By rleonard:
Are there strip heaters on the leading edges for ice removal? Is it a weeping wing style?


Im pretty sure it uses bleed air, but a hawk guy will be along eventually I am sure.


It's been 20 years plus since I've been around a 'Hawk, and I wasn't a 'Hawk guy, but I think they're bleed air as well.



Hawk guy here. The blades use an electric element on the blade to deice. A malfunctioning Blade De-Ice system has been known to cause blade failures. I have not seen one like that from a de-Ice failure.

Link Posted: 12/11/2014 3:31:20 AM EST
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Originally Posted By BigW1stCav:
Dumb question:

What are helicopter rotors made of?
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Depends on the helo....

Blackhawk rotors -> honeycomb core, composite skin & a metal leading edge, with a removable tip-cap....


Link Posted: 12/11/2014 3:34:33 AM EST
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Originally Posted By CFII:


Im pretty sure it uses bleed air, but a hawk guy will be along eventually I am sure.
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Originally Posted By CFII:
Originally Posted By rleonard:
Are there strip heaters on the leading edges for ice removal? Is it a weeping wing style?


Im pretty sure it uses bleed air, but a hawk guy will be along eventually I am sure.

Been a good bit since I worked on blackhawk blades (not aviation any longer)... But I seem to remember no bleed-holes/ice-boot/etc anywhere on the ones i worked with... IIRC electrically heated...
Link Posted: 12/11/2014 4:00:53 AM EST
Link Posted: 12/11/2014 8:22:40 AM EST
So am I reading that right, that the autorotation caused the blade to come apart?
Link Posted: 12/11/2014 11:35:38 AM EST
That article made my head hurt. It provided zero information. An autorotation would not hurt a blade like that.

Even if one engine died they could fly and hover with only one engine, To auto onto the ground both engines would have to not be running.

Most likely scenario based on limited information: blade fails at altitude, they "auto" to near the ground and land normally. If there was an engine problem it was probably fod from pieces of the blade.
Link Posted: 12/11/2014 1:19:32 PM EST
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Originally Posted By Morgan321:
That article made my head hurt. It provided zero information. An autorotation would not hurt a blade like that.

Even if one engine died they could fly and hover with only one engine, To auto onto the ground both engines would have to not be running.

Most likely scenario based on limited information: blade fails at altitude, they "auto" to near the ground and land normally. If there was an engine problem it was probably fod from pieces of the blade.
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Your comments make me feel better. I was trying to figure out how an autorotation would do that to a blade and thought the same thing about the "engine issue".
Link Posted: 12/11/2014 5:36:40 PM EST
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Originally Posted By Morgan321:
snip..

Most likely scenario based on limited information: blade fails at altitude, they "auto" to near the ground and land normally. If there was an engine problem it was probably fod from pieces of the blade.
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This.

Good on the PAC for getting down in a hurry, right side up, and one piece(ish). Pretty sure if that ever happened to me i'd be pulling pieces of flight suit and seat cushion out of my ass from then until retirement.
Link Posted: 12/15/2014 7:01:41 PM EST
[Last Edit: 12/15/2014 7:02:15 PM EST by H60ADriver]
Hawk blades are in fact heated with electric blankets that use an Element on time to control how hot the blade gets. There is an electric brush on the top of the Main Rotor head that passes voltage to the blankets as they spin around and make contact with the inboard part of the brush.

If the main rotor de-ice were turned on in a warm environment, or malfunctioned and was on constant instead of EOT it could cause the blades to de-laminate in such a manner. I saw this once before in 2006 back when I was still a mechanic, The blade de-ice system failed in flight in a manner that voltage was supplied constantly to the heating elements in the main rotor blades. This caused all four main rotor blades to begin de-laminating right behind the spar. In the case I had just mentioned, no material left the blade, it just peeled up leaving an air gap behind the spar into the honeycomb, looked an awful lot like a book that had gotten wet and dried out in an awkward manner, all wavy and such. Not saying this was the casue in this case as I have no inside information what so ever, just trying to clear up the questions on the Main rotor blade de ice and offer a little insight into something similar I once saw.
Link Posted: 12/17/2014 9:34:51 PM EST
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Originally Posted By Morgan321:
That article made my head hurt. It provided zero information. An autorotation would not hurt a blade like that.

Even if one engine died they could fly and hover with only one engine, To auto onto the ground both engines would have to not be running.

Most likely scenario based on limited information: blade fails at altitude, they "auto" to near the ground and land normally. If there was an engine problem it was probably fod from pieces of the blade.
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There is two engines on that bird, complete engine failure is pretty unlikely.
Could the bang be the blade coming apart and the loss of power be the transmission failing from the vibration? Forcing an auto rotation. Just a thought.

Link Posted: 12/17/2014 11:53:23 PM EST
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Originally Posted By Seggerty:

Hawk guy here. The blades use an electric element on the blade to deice. A malfunctioning Blade De-Ice system has been known to cause blade failures. I have not seen one like that from a de-Ice failure.

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Originally Posted By Seggerty:
Originally Posted By M-60:
Originally Posted By CFII:
Originally Posted By rleonard:
Are there strip heaters on the leading edges for ice removal? Is it a weeping wing style?


Im pretty sure it uses bleed air, but a hawk guy will be along eventually I am sure.


It's been 20 years plus since I've been around a 'Hawk, and I wasn't a 'Hawk guy, but I think they're bleed air as well.



Hawk guy here. The blades use an electric element on the blade to deice. A malfunctioning Blade De-Ice system has been known to cause blade failures. I have not seen one like that from a de-Ice failure.



I guess that makes sense. The Apache uses electric de-icing (I've hooked up enough of those little cannon plugs to know that)

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