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Posted: 1/11/2015 9:16:25 AM EST
[Last Edit: 1/20/2015 2:38:18 AM EST by Banshee35]
***edit***
I'm off this week so I'm gonna make the journey down to see the silver one I linked to but looking at the Carfax something struck me.

It had 2 tires and clutch replaced at 22k miles
4 tires and shocks replaced at 30k, ok maybe the bad shocks ate up the tires
Flywheel and clutch at 34k
4 tires at 41k

Ok, maybe high performance tires and getting it ready to sell so you replace the tires early and the shocks ate up the first two but the clutch replaced twice within 12k miles?

Is this normal? Does it eat clutches and or tires that quickly?

Thanks in advance

***end edit***

So I got a new job recently and a big raise and I'm doing the right stuff of paying off bills, funding retirement, etc and think I want to reward myself a bit. I have always been a Porsche guy having owned a 1969 911, '84 944 and a '97 Boxster.

I have a 4WD for snow duty but think a Carrera 4 would fit the bill for me.
Fun car
4WD for emergency light snow capability
Back seats for use with my 5 y/o and 2 y/o in a pinch to get them to school or something
Decent gas mileage
Decent reliability

I don't think I want a cabriolet as the back seats seem even smaller and more useless and don't care for the look with the top up. Am I wrong about the back seats?

Is the Carrera 4S worth the difference? I do like the look of the wide body but is the performance worth the increased cost?

Anything to watch out for on certain years?

This would be a third car, fun duty only really or in a pinch if one of the others is in the shop.
Link Posted: 1/11/2015 9:21:16 AM EST
The price...
Link Posted: 1/11/2015 9:22:02 AM EST
Be wary of the IMS bearing in pre-2008 models. Not super common but if it fails it's bad.
Link Posted: 1/11/2015 9:24:59 AM EST
Yeah, I had heard a bit about it but I didn't realize it was all the way up to 2008.
Link Posted: 1/11/2015 9:25:13 AM EST
I think I'd be hanging out and doing research on a Porsche forum before making such a big purchase.
Link Posted: 1/11/2015 9:26:48 AM EST
What do they cost?
Link Posted: 1/11/2015 9:30:04 AM EST
With the tires normally equipped on a porsche, I wouldn't count on the awd being useful in the snow.

Nice cars though.
Link Posted: 1/11/2015 9:32:34 AM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By RIP-Yataski:
The price...
View Quote


I haven't found "the" one yet but there's a Porsche dealer fairly close with a 2003 C4S coupe with 47k miles they are asking $29,995 for and I have seen a few other older ones for less to include cabs but not the perfect one yet. The C4S seems the closest so far.
Link Posted: 1/11/2015 9:36:54 AM EST
I would probably put a set of Conti extreme contacts on it when the need arises as I have them on both my cars and they do pretty well.

This would be more emergency snow use as I work 12 hour overnight shifts 30 minutes away. Really more to make sure I can get home in the morning if it snows overnight.

Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By AgeOne:
With the tires normally equipped on a porsche, I wouldn't count on the awd being useful in the snow.

Nice cars though.
View Quote

Link Posted: 1/11/2015 9:37:56 AM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By AgeOne:
With the tires normally equipped on a porsche, I wouldn't count on the awd being useful in the snow.

Nice cars though.
View Quote
This. AWD or not, you're going nowhere but the ditch trying to drive a Porsche on summer performance tires in the snow. If you want to have winter capability at all, you need another sset of tires.

Also, 996s are cheap for a reason. IMO, you'd be much better off stretching your budget and getting a basic 997.
Link Posted: 1/11/2015 9:39:22 AM EST
Rear facing baby seat for the 2 y/o? That's tight.
Link Posted: 1/11/2015 9:39:54 AM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Engineer5:
I think I'd be hanging out and doing research on a Porsche forum before making such a big purchase.
View Quote


I'm on it!

Not my first Porsche but need to remember my password for Rennlist plus you guys are faster
Link Posted: 1/11/2015 9:43:00 AM EST
I wouldn't worry about AWD and snow tires if its a 3rd car. You won't be driving your baby in the snow and you won't be putting kids in the backseat.

Buy it for what it is. A toy with 0 practical uses and enjoy it.
Link Posted: 1/11/2015 9:43:05 AM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Banshee35:


I haven't found "the" one yet but there's a Porsche dealer fairly close with a 2003 C4S coupe with 47k miles they are asking $29,995 for and I have seen a few other older ones for less to include cabs but not the perfect one yet. The C4S seems the closest so far.
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Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Banshee35:
Originally Posted By RIP-Yataski:
The price...


I haven't found "the" one yet but there's a Porsche dealer fairly close with a 2003 C4S coupe with 47k miles they are asking $29,995 for and I have seen a few other older ones for less to include cabs but not the perfect one yet. The C4S seems the closest so far.


996 Turbo? No IMS issues and still AWD? The premium is higher but residiual should also be better when it comes time to sell it.
Link Posted: 1/11/2015 9:43:28 AM EST
He's going forward facing soon as he's BIG and doesn't really fit rear facing anymore. This is a long-term plan anyway and if I have them both in the car there will be nobody in the passengers seat anyway.

Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By itstock:
Rear facing baby seat for the 2 y/o? That's tight.
View Quote

Link Posted: 1/11/2015 10:17:36 AM EST
Here is the C4S I'm talking about.
Link Posted: 1/11/2015 10:20:42 AM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By watchwatch:
Buy it for what it is. A toy with 0 practical uses and enjoy it.
View Quote

This. Life's too short to not have the shit you want.
Link Posted: 1/11/2015 10:32:26 AM EST
[Last Edit: 1/11/2015 10:32:36 AM EST by itstock]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Banshee35:
Here is the C4S I'm talking about.
View Quote


I think you can find better p cars for the money in our area.
Link Posted: 1/11/2015 10:34:01 AM EST
Looks like a decent example. I am not a fan of the 996 generation or 4wd on the 911s since there is plenty of weight out back for traction and I wouldn't drive it In bad weather. With the known IMS bearing issues, The only way I'd go 996 is for a gt3 or a turbo which I know is a compromise on the 4wd. The 997 generation is just so much more refined. It's where I will be putting my money sometime In the future.
Link Posted: 1/11/2015 10:43:51 AM EST
My best friend has an '04 GT3 and a '13 GT3RS and they are awesome cars but out of my price range and not what I'm looking for. I do prefer the 997 body style but the 996s are much cheaper as they are underrated and under appreciated.

I'm looking to keep the price down as I'm looking to write a check.
Link Posted: 1/11/2015 10:44:51 AM EST
[Last Edit: 1/11/2015 10:54:04 AM EST by jafrush]
I've driven both the current model Carrera 4 and 4S on a track (thanks Porsche ), if you can swing it, the 4S to me would definitely be worth it. The 4S felt like a perfect balance of performance and power, while the regular Carrera 4 felt slightly underpowered in a few spots. However as a counterpoint, unless you're a very skilled driver or taking it on a track, you probably won't notice much difference on normal roads either.

Awesome cars. Dad has an 09 Cayman, it has been more reliable than my 09 Acura. Cant comment on 911 potential issues since we dont own one, but if the Cayman's quality is any indication, they are good to go. Porsche has been putting out very high rated reliability wise models for a while now.

Eta didn't realize you were looking at 996 instead of 997. No experience with the 996's besides drooling on a few .
Link Posted: 1/11/2015 10:45:32 AM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By itstock:


I think you can find better p cars for the money in our area.
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Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By itstock:
Originally Posted By Banshee35:
Here is the C4S I'm talking about.


I think you can find better p cars for the money in our area.


I'm in no rush and been looking for a bit but finding mostly cabs
Link Posted: 1/11/2015 10:52:34 AM EST
Link Posted: 1/11/2015 11:01:39 AM EST
You would be better off at rennlist than here.
Link Posted: 1/11/2015 11:57:18 AM EST
I thank god every day I was born in the first world.
Link Posted: 1/11/2015 12:01:05 PM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By thegoodlife:
I thank god every day I was born in the first world.
View Quote

Can you imagine the threads on a 3rd World forum?

"How do I get my child to eat roaches so he won't starve?"
Link Posted: 1/11/2015 12:03:16 PM EST
Me too
Link Posted: 1/11/2015 12:04:20 PM EST
There is a reason 996 models are so cheap in comparison to other generations. Be very wary.
Link Posted: 1/11/2015 12:15:16 PM EST
[Last Edit: 1/11/2015 12:15:41 PM EST by TheYellowThing]
Stay on the throttle in turns if it handles the same way as a 911.



Tail happy.
Link Posted: 1/11/2015 12:32:36 PM EST
Am I in before someone tells you to buy a Toyota Camry?
Link Posted: 1/11/2015 12:34:43 PM EST
Originally Posted By Banshee35:
So I got a new job recently and a big raise and I'm doing the right stuff of paying off bills, funding retirement, etc and think I want to reward myself a bit. I have always been a Porsche guy having owned a 1969 911, '84 944 and a '97 Boxster.

I have a 4WD for snow duty but think a Carrera 4 would fit the bill for me.
Fun car
4WD for emergency light snow capability
Back seats for use with my 5 y/o and 2 y/o in a pinch to get them to school or something
Decent gas mileage
Decent reliability

I don't think I want a cabriolet as the back seats seem even smaller and more useless and don't care for the look with the top up. Am I wrong about the back seats?

Is the Carrera 4S worth the difference? I do like the look of the wide body but is the performance worth the increased cost?.


Anything to watch out for on certain years?

This would be a third car, fun duty only really or in a pinch if one of the others is in the shop.
View Quote


Do it OP......I have a C2Cab so let me give you some advice. Buy the newest you can afford and yes I'd look for a 4S. Get a PPI on any potential car you're going to buy, make sure it include a bore-scope. This will cost a few hundred but could save you thousands down the wrong if you buy someone's headache. Maintenance is critical to Porsches, look for a car with a full service history.

Depending on your budget will dictate what generation you get. The 991 models, (current gen,) is a great car but many consider it too boring due to all the driving aids. The 997 is the previous generation and very popular as it was the last of the "mechanical 911." 997.1 (late 2005-2008,) IMO this is the minimum you want to be in; Porsche had issues with the 996 generation engine that was mostly fixed in late 2005. Also the main seal between the engine and transmission leaking was a problem on the 996 and early 2005 997's. 997.2 are a different animal as they went to a DFI engine.

Head over to Rennlist, get an account and start reading. 911's are actually pretty bulletproof and easy cars to live with. If at all possible, get a "full leather" car if you can.
Link Posted: 1/11/2015 12:36:34 PM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By JakeThePimp:
Be wary of the IMS bearing in pre-2008 2005 models. Not super common but if it fails it's bad.
View Quote

Link Posted: 1/11/2015 12:37:19 PM EST
IMS bearing

Pre 2008. there are some documented fixes/workarounds but read up on them for your modell year.
Link Posted: 1/11/2015 12:38:38 PM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By ATLDiver:

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Originally Posted By ATLDiver:
Originally Posted By JakeThePimp:
Be wary of the IMS bearing in pre-2008 2005 models. Not super common but if it fails it's bad.



As far as I was read-up they did change the bearing but the new (bigger one) failed as well but was more of a bitch to replace.


Link Posted: 1/11/2015 12:40:22 PM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By ATLDiver:

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Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By ATLDiver:
Originally Posted By JakeThePimp:
Be wary of the IMS bearing in pre-2008 2005 models. Not super common but if it fails it's bad.



Looking at the design it almost must fail prematurely.
Link Posted: 1/11/2015 12:41:13 PM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By RIP-Yataski:
The price...
View Quote


The price to maintain it.

I'm sure it will be just about time for the $10,000 oil change service.
Link Posted: 1/11/2015 12:42:42 PM EST
'04 Boxster S Special Edition here. Great fun.

Looking at 08 911S. That's about the price range I'm comfortable at.

IMS is a $750 part and not much to install if done during a clutch.
Link Posted: 1/11/2015 12:43:51 PM EST
[Last Edit: 1/11/2015 12:44:35 PM EST by Timco]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By HKPDW:


The price to maintain it.

I'm sure it will be just about time for the $10,000 oil change service.
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Originally Posted By HKPDW:
Originally Posted By RIP-Yataski:
The price...


The price to maintain it.

I'm sure it will be just about time for the $10,000 oil change service.



They hold like 10 quarts of oil, but otherwise a normal oil change process. 0w-40.

My cost on pads and rotors all the way around is $700. Parts are expensive.
Link Posted: 1/11/2015 12:44:45 PM EST
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Originally Posted By Sedona:
You would be better off at rennlist than here.
View Quote
Or Pelican. 996s are cheap right now. Budget $1500-2000 extra and have the IMS replaced with one of several solutions. I like the LN Engineering solution personal ly. I daily drive an 86 and occasionally lust for a newer model. J
Link Posted: 1/11/2015 12:44:51 PM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Banshee35:
My best friend has an '04 GT3 and a '13 GT3RS and they are awesome cars but out of my price range and not what I'm looking for. I do prefer the 997 body style but the 996s are much cheaper as they are underrated and under appreciated.

I'm looking to keep the price down as I'm looking to write a check.
View Quote


Two thoughts on that if you're going to look for a 996.

1: Plan on replacing the IMS baring with Flat-6's replacement upon buying the car you find. Proving it hasn't already been done.
2: Note service on the RMS, if it hasn't been replaced, plan on doing that as well.

If I were you, I'd look at stretching you budget to get into a late 2005. This will buy you a revised IMS baring and a new style RMS plus a MUCH nicer interior. The 996 was the car where Porsche cut corners on, they're resale is in the dumper for a reason.
Link Posted: 1/11/2015 12:48:02 PM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By iggy1337:
IMS bearing

Pre 2008 early 2005. there are some documented fixes/workarounds but read up on them for your modell year.
View Quote


No offense to anyone but unless you know what you're talking about, might be good to put a disclaimer on your 'advise.'
Link Posted: 1/11/2015 12:53:10 PM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By iggy1337:


As far as I was read-up they did change the bearing but the new (bigger one) failed as well but was more of a bitch to replace.


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Originally Posted By iggy1337:
Originally Posted By ATLDiver:
Originally Posted By JakeThePimp:
Be wary of the IMS bearing in pre-2008 2005 models. Not super common but if it fails it's bad.



As far as I was read-up they did change the bearing but the new (bigger one) failed as well but was more of a bitch to replace.




It is after late 2005 when they went to a larger baring. That said the newer baring has pretty much fixed the issue but over time the larger baring will fail as well. There are members with 100K+ on these larger barings with no issues. The key is changing the oil every 5K miles and following warm up procedures to ensure the baring stays healthy. Porsche went to a DFI setup on the 997.2 in '09 which does away with barings all together but the DFI has its on set of issues.
Link Posted: 1/11/2015 12:53:43 PM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By ATLDiver:


No offense to anyone but unless you know what you're talking about, might be good to put a disclaimer on your 'advise.'
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Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By ATLDiver:
Originally Posted By iggy1337:
IMS bearing

Pre 2008 early 2005. there are some documented fixes/workarounds but read up on them for your modell year.


No offense to anyone but unless you know what you're talking about, might be good to put a disclaimer on your 'advise.'


As far as I am read up on the subject in the Euro sites there were problems up to 2008 ? (exluding some models like the Turbo).
Link Posted: 1/11/2015 12:56:19 PM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Timco:
'04 Boxster S Special Edition here. Great fun.

Looking at 08 911S. That's about the price range I'm comfortable at.

IMS is a $750 part and not much to install if done during a clutch.
View Quote


Better re-check your info bud. What you said is true for the smaller baring, (again early '05 and before,) but a 2008 has the bigger baring. To replace the block has to be opened and there's no 'fix' for the larger barings. Good news is, it's not really a problem with the newer design. BTW, this applies to the Boxster as well.
Link Posted: 1/11/2015 12:58:37 PM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By ATLDiver:


Better re-check your info bud. What you said is true for the smaller baring, (again early '05 and before,) but a 2008 has the bigger baring. To replace the block has to be opened and there's no 'fix' for the larger barings. Good news is, it's not really a problem with the newer design. BTW, this applies to the Boxster as well.
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Originally Posted By ATLDiver:
Originally Posted By Timco:
'04 Boxster S Special Edition here. Great fun.

Looking at 08 911S. That's about the price range I'm comfortable at.

IMS is a $750 part and not much to install if done during a clutch.


Better re-check your info bud. What you said is true for the smaller baring, (again early '05 and before,) but a 2008 has the bigger baring. To replace the block has to be opened and there's no 'fix' for the larger barings. Good news is, it's not really a problem with the newer design. BTW, this applies to the Boxster as well.

You are correct. Should have said pre 08 or so. Later is internal to the block, but I've seen posts from Jake Raby owner of flat 6 that said he is developing a fix for that.
Link Posted: 1/11/2015 12:59:46 PM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By iggy1337:


As far as I am read up on the subject in the Euro sites there were problems up to 2008 ? (exluding some models like the Turbo).
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Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By iggy1337:
Originally Posted By ATLDiver:
Originally Posted By iggy1337:
IMS bearing

Pre 2008 early 2005. there are some documented fixes/workarounds but read up on them for your modell year.


No offense to anyone but unless you know what you're talking about, might be good to put a disclaimer on your 'advise.'


As far as I am read up on the subject in the Euro sites there were problems up to 2008 ? (exluding some models like the Turbo).


Nope, not with the engines. In fact the Turbo, GT2/GT3 997's use a racing engine that doesn't use a baring. Basically a precursor to the DFI engines used in 997.2 cars. If one wants to get away from that potential headache they should get one of those models or a 997.2. Personally the 2006-2008 are good to go just be selective in your shopping, get a PPI and follow mantienance.
Link Posted: 1/11/2015 1:01:19 PM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Timco:

You are correct. Should have said pre 08 or so. Later is internal to the block, but I've seen posts from Jake Raby owner of flat 6 that said he is developing a fix for that.
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Originally Posted By Timco:
Originally Posted By ATLDiver:
Originally Posted By Timco:
'04 Boxster S Special Edition here. Great fun.

Looking at 08 911S. That's about the price range I'm comfortable at.

IMS is a $750 part and not much to install if done during a clutch.


Better re-check your info bud. What you said is true for the smaller baring, (again early '05 and before,) but a 2008 has the bigger baring. To replace the block has to be opened and there's no 'fix' for the larger barings. Good news is, it's not really a problem with the newer design. BTW, this applies to the Boxster as well.

You are correct. Should have said pre 08 or so. Later is internal to the block, but I've seen posts from Jake Raby owner of flat 6 that said he is developing a fix for that.


Yes I had heard that as well. I live close to Jake and exchanged some emails with him during my research and shopping. He knows his shit, that's for sure.
Link Posted: 1/11/2015 1:10:59 PM EST
2-5% have the IMS failure and it's generally in garage queens. Get one with higher miles (mine had 69k and the bearing looked new when it was replaced last month when I had the clutch done) and you should be good. Replace it like it was a normal wear item when you do the clutch.

Some people with C4's are actually removing the shaft to the front wheels to save a bit of weight. The AWD does little for you in the snow. It's strictly a handling accessory.

A good oil analysis and Pre-purchase inspection will be worth way more than it costs in peace of mind. There is a shitload of things in a 911 that can leave you stranded--the IMS just gets the most press.

TC
'04 996 C2
Link Posted: 1/11/2015 1:11:41 PM EST
fwiw - my 996 was VERY uncomfortable....as in back was killing me after a 2 hour drive.
Link Posted: 1/11/2015 1:14:12 PM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By ATLDiver:


Yes I had heard that as well. I live close to Jake and exchanged some emails with him during my research and shopping. He knows his shit, that's for sure.
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Originally Posted By ATLDiver:
Originally Posted By Timco:
Originally Posted By ATLDiver:
Originally Posted By Timco:
'04 Boxster S Special Edition here. Great fun.

Looking at 08 911S. That's about the price range I'm comfortable at.

IMS is a $750 part and not much to install if done during a clutch.


Better re-check your info bud. What you said is true for the smaller baring, (again early '05 and before,) but a 2008 has the bigger baring. To replace the block has to be opened and there's no 'fix' for the larger barings. Good news is, it's not really a problem with the newer design. BTW, this applies to the Boxster as well.

You are correct. Should have said pre 08 or so. Later is internal to the block, but I've seen posts from Jake Raby owner of flat 6 that said he is developing a fix for that.


Yes I had heard that as well. I live close to Jake and exchanged some emails with him during my research and shopping. He knows his shit, that's for sure.

He is on 986forums all the time. He is the M-96 guru for sure.
Link Posted: 1/11/2015 1:19:40 PM EST
I have a 2015 Cayman S. No kids so I don't need a backseat and I like the mid engine. Also I store it during the winter to avoid having whatever the put down on the roads mess up the paint.

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