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Posted: 8/25/2004 10:11:21 AM EDT
Ok, the last time I took the kids to the neighborhood pool, it started some thinking. There were about a dozen children (not including mine) at the pool when we arrived. Between the 18 year old with 3 kids under 4 from 3 different fathers (none of whom she was ever married to), the 4 children who were getting ready to go back to Mom's house for the school year, and the 2 who were living with their grandparents for one reason or another, I realized that my 2 kids were the only ones at the pool who lived with both parents. It occured to me what an effect it would have on my boys if their father and I seperated. Our marriage is their stability. No wonder the youth of today has so many issues.
 I laid awake trying to figure out where things went so wrong. Just 20 or 30 years ago, illegitimate children were rare and divorce was something to be ashamed of. What happened?? In the early 60s, the pill was introduced, and then came "free love", but that eventually was cast (somewhat) aside, then a landmark supreme court decision in 1973 made it possible for casual sex to replace baseball as America's favorite pass time. I have seen pregnancy listed as a "side effect" of sex. WTF? It isn't a side effect, it's the POINT. My kids are not "side effects".  I'm beginning to think that our society's lax attitude towards sex is going to be the downfall of Western civilization. Anyway, I have ranted enough for now, and the kids need me. Feel free to call me "old fashioned" or "no fun" or whatever. 
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Posted: 8/25/2004 10:18:32 AM EDT
[#1]
Quoted, and tagged, as proof that there is at least ONE sane woman under the age of 30 left in the world  , even if she is already married.
Other members may laugh at you for that. Don't worry....you're right. |
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Posted: 8/25/2004 10:31:02 AM EDT
[#2]
Consinder yourself lucky. I am a divorced father. My children are NOT illegitimate. However, I must pay an amount every week in which I have no say in how said monies are spent, or how my chldren are raised and are set without regards to my income.
Why did it happen? It was not accidents that the children were born. The union itself was the mistake on many levels. I could go on but it's probably not the right forum to do so. I do ask, however, where is the fairness when I pay to someone who's remarried and denies me on every occassion to have any part of my childs life yet I'm remarried with children and no one pays me? So, two families of four but one must give 50% of his income to the other. Sorry, rant off. |
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Posted: 8/25/2004 10:39:43 AM EDT
[#3]
Do you have an available sister, who is judicious in flinging her poo?
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Posted: 8/25/2004 10:40:56 AM EDT
[#4]
Please disregard my last. I've had a tough day today and happened upon this thread and needed to vent a little. As a rule, I don't air my laundry nor should have I done such in the ladies forum.
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Posted: 8/25/2004 10:42:14 AM EDT
[#5]
If you are old fashioned then I am too. edit - I hope your thread talks some sense into a few of the people here... Most likely it won't though. |
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Posted: 8/25/2004 10:42:58 AM EDT
[#6]
Here is my take on what happened.
WWII started it. Mom HAD to get a job to support the family while dad was sent to war. Right or wrong this carried over into the 50's and 60's with korea and nam. Women in the workforce became the norm and the image of MOTHER at home faded. Women enjoyed the extra freedom and independance. The government contributed to this with high tax rates and tax penalties for married couples. In order to have a decent income both parents were forced to work. This induced more stress on the relationship that many could not survive. After a generation or 2 of divorcee kids growing up with only mom or dad it has become "normal". Today marriage is not so much a sacred bonding but a relationship that can be ended at will. Both parents move on and find another partner and the kids are split to pretty much grow up without a SINGLE family for stability. These kids see mom or dad engaging in feel good relationships and decide that is the way things are supposed to be. Thus you get 18yr old moms with 4 kids and no husbands and 18yr guys with no sense of duty or responsibility. Kids learn from the paprents. If they aren't there they learn from their enviornment. I could be 100% wrong here but just my observation. This is not a slam against women just an observation of how womens role in society took a drastic turn for what i consider the worse. mike |
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Posted: 8/25/2004 10:55:47 AM EDT
[#7]
 I am sorry that you don't get to spend time with your kids, that is unbelievably sad and selfish on the mother's part. THey are the ones suffering the worst. T_B_S, I agree with you in part, the shift towards women in the work force has played a part in all of this, but I think the attitude that sex is just about pleasure and not about procreation is a much bigger factor. Children have become commodities instead of blessings. They serve as a pretty little decoration for Christmas cards, then Mommy n Daddy ship them off to daycare where they can pay someone else to do the dirty work raising them. Single folks can go out and have sex all they want, and if the birth control fails, Mommy can run out to planned parenthood and get herself an abortion because it isn't convenient to have a kid. It used to be common wisdom not to have sex with anyone you wouldn't want to raise a child with, but now it doesn't matter because you can always make those "side effects" go away if you can't prevent them in the first place. Remember that old addage "why buy the cow when you can get the milk for free?"? Marriage is meaningless if it is socially acceptable to raise children without a parent and to screw anyone you want. Instead of saying "til death do us part" most people should say "ah, I'll give it a shot....."
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Posted: 8/25/2004 11:02:21 AM EDT
[#8]
You're absolutely right. Except it's not only making the "side effects" go away but I can profit on them. I had this happen to me while I was in the Corps. Too much to go into but it's true. It's gone from "til death do us part" to "until I get out of it what I want." Not in all instances but the system has set up those circumstances and there are those who take advantage of it. |
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Posted: 8/25/2004 11:02:38 AM EDT
[#9]
I've been a best man at weddings five times,not one of those marriages
has lasted. (I hope I'm not bad luck!) My wife and I have been married for 25 years and do not have one other married couple as friends any more. Pretty sad GM |
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Posted: 8/25/2004 11:07:28 AM EDT
[#10]
If you were the bad luck, you wouldn't be celebrating 25 years of marriage. |
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Posted: 8/25/2004 11:12:40 AM EDT
[#11]
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Posted: 8/25/2004 11:29:42 AM EDT
[#12]
Unfortunately that's excatly what it's come to. I want my moment in the spot light and if things don't work out, divorce, and do it again. |
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Posted: 8/25/2004 11:29:59 AM EDT
[#13]
Just throwing in my 2 cents....
First of all not single parents are the result of divorce. My mother became a single parent when my father died and she was left to raise 3 children alone(the oldest being 10 with a mental handicapp). She was truly alone in raising my siblings and I because both sides of our "family" abandoned her. Second of all, my mother had no choice but to work as she was the sole provider for the family. Not mention her pride and work ethic would prevent her from collecting welfare. As a result of my mother's working, I was placed into day care for a couple of years until I was old enough for school and my mom still did all the dirty work. I realize that this might the exception and not the rule but I thought I might offer up a different persepctive. *Irish puts away her soapbox* As to catasomething orginal post, I agree 100% with that. I'm under 30 and the behavior of people my age makes me cringe. |
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Posted: 8/25/2004 11:37:21 AM EDT
[#14]
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Posted: 8/25/2004 11:39:34 AM EDT
[#15]
No offense taken just offering a different perspective
Sorry, if you thought I attacking you.
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Posted: 8/25/2004 11:44:45 AM EDT
[#16]
I do have a good high school friend who I still have contact with from time to time who is 24 and still a virgin waiting to find a husband. She's drop dead gorgeous to boot, but she lives in PA. If she ever moves to TX, I'll tell her to look you up.
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Posted: 8/25/2004 12:17:00 PM EDT
[#17]
And here I thought you were going to rant about the thong bikini's on 9 year olds!
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Posted: 8/25/2004 12:20:44 PM EDT
[#18]
Hey Cat is this thread directed towards the author of some recent sex threads?
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Posted: 8/25/2004 12:22:18 PM EDT
[#19]
Since this is my rant thread, I'm going to continue....
Let's compare two 16 year old girls who find themselves pregnant, one in 1950, and the other today. The girls tell their mothers. In 1950, the (typical) mother's reaction would have been, "you need to get married and grow up and take responsibility for yourself" Today, the (modern) mother's reaction would be, "are you going to have an abortion? adoption? Your life is over if you get married." Getting married young will get in the way of your screwing around with multiple men and "enjoying your sexuality", you know. In 1950, if the family and friends of this girl heard that she wasn't getting married, they would shake their heads and feel sorry for the child, but in todays world, it is the other way around. Getting married and having children used to mark the beginning of your adult life, but now it marks the end of your wonderful, carefree youth. It is more important to have fun (meaning; have sex with as many partners as possible) than it is to grow up and be responsible. Kids are a hindrance unless you have allready sown your wild oats and established your all important career.  <sigh> I worry about my children's generation.
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Posted: 8/25/2004 12:23:38 PM EDT
[#20]
DpC, the bikinis on 9 year olds is another rant for another thread.
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Posted: 8/25/2004 12:27:16 PM EDT
[#21]
I too worry about my kids generation. And my child is not legitamate either. We didn't get married until 2 months after he was born. |
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Posted: 8/25/2004 12:29:13 PM EDT
[#22]
I too worry about my daughter. She is only a month old, but it scares the hell out of me thinking about the future. |
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Posted: 8/25/2004 12:30:14 PM EDT
[#23]
"who that is?"
"that just my baby's daddy" Tag because I came in late and everybody already said what I would have. WWII - check sexual freedom - check And add to it that for a long time parenthood played second fiddle to career when it comes to sources of pride and self respect. Being a stay at home mom was frowned uppon. I'm glad that women have worked so hard that we can have good careers if we want them, but it makes me sad that it came at the expense of respect for the career of parenthood. I think respect for Mommahood is making a come back, either that or I don't notice my 2nd class citizenship because I don't give a hoot what anyone thinks. 
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Posted: 8/25/2004 12:30:33 PM EDT
[#24]
I'm gonna go out on a limb here and say your family/child have a better-than-average chance of 'making it'. |
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Posted: 8/25/2004 12:32:36 PM EDT
[#25]
What matters is that you 2 are married now. Don't put your son through a divorce. My parents were as dysfunctional as they come, but at least they were dysfunctional under one roof.
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Posted: 8/25/2004 12:36:12 PM EDT
[#26]
I got married for life. Through thick and thin. But divorce is sometimes an option. I am glad my parents got divorced because the court made us go to counceling that helped alot, which we would not have went to had the parents stayed married. |
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Posted: 8/25/2004 12:40:23 PM EDT
[#27]
I understand that divorce is sometimes neccessary, even most Churches will admit that. I consider adultery or abuse to be the only valid reasons for leaving a marriage, and even those can be overcome in limited circumstances. Of course, that may seem awfully closed-minded of me..... Oh, well, call me closed-minded, then. 
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Posted: 8/25/2004 12:48:34 PM EDT
[#28]
Hey no fair!!! you shoot better than I do 
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Posted: 8/25/2004 12:52:32 PM EDT
[#29]
I feel your pain man. I have to worry about this one also. |
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Posted: 8/25/2004 2:36:00 PM EDT
[#30]
But it isn't even single irresponsible people having kids. I recently was ranting to my husband about a friend of mine whose wife wants to be pregnant again by Nov. because she wants another kid. First off her son is only 14 months old now. Kids are not accessories, they aren't trophies to show off to your friends. To make it worst, both of these friends work - they have the grandmothers split responsibility of watching their son during the week. Did anyone bother to ask the REAL person that is raising their son if THEY wanted to take on another child? Yeah its all easy and convenient to keep having kids and expect someone else to take care of them! Why don't they scale down their lifestyle so the mother can quit her job and take care of the one she already has??
I guess it just really pisses me off because having another child in their situation is just damn selfish. they aren't even (in my couch potato holier than thou opinion) really taking responsibility for the one they already have. |
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Posted: 8/25/2004 5:54:37 PM EDT
[#31]
Sniff.
Ya'll brought a little tear to my eye. Of all places to find some sanity in this world, I wouldn't have expected the AR15.com Womens's Forum to be it. Bravo ladies.... |
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Posted: 8/25/2004 6:00:42 PM EDT
[#32]
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Posted: 8/25/2004 6:37:08 PM EDT
[#33]
Well some of us anyway My mother [the public health nurse] had the best idea. Tie everybodies tubes [boys and girls] till they are ready to raise children. |
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Posted: 8/25/2004 6:44:30 PM EDT
[#34]
 I'm not suggesting that reproductive rights become restricted at all. We need less government, not more.
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Posted: 8/25/2004 6:46:51 PM EDT
[#35]
+1. Whoever first had the tube-tying idea probably had their heart in the right place, but if people would just keep their pants on....... 
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Posted: 8/25/2004 6:49:27 PM EDT
[#36]
+1 |
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Posted: 8/25/2004 8:20:40 PM EDT
[#37]
+2 |
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Posted: 8/25/2004 10:29:42 PM EDT
[#38]
I agree. I am 24 years old and back when I was little (not too long ago) divorce was rare. I was one of the only children in class with divorced parents. Now my daughter is one of the few with married parents.
 We've gone from not talking about sex with our kids, to not talking about why not to have sex .
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Posted: 8/25/2004 10:52:04 PM EDT
[#39]
Man. It's refreshing to hear that. That is my exact opinion. It's a bit tougher with me though, seeing as I am only 20.
People my age are the group that enforces and celebrates the "seize the moment" attitude when it comes to sex. I still can't fathom it, seeing as how "casual sex" is such a foreign concept to me. For me, sex is anything but casual. It's not some serious, strict matter in which no one should enjoy it and it should only be used for procreation; that's not my opinion at all. But it does matter greatly to me, being one reason why I've held onto my virginity - not necesserily for marriage, but so when I finally do make that choice, it will be with someone who it matters to just as much - do these people even exist anymore? I was flipping through channels the other day and stumbled onto a special on the shortest celebrity marriages - some a few months, some a few weeks, some just even a few hours! It bummed me out because I had always seen marriage as such a sacred thing and now it's been turned into a quick fix for far too many people. I began to wonder the last time that society viewed marriage as what it's really supposed to be. I guess it's just really disheartening to see things like my 21-year-old friend have to go through the pain of divorce after 8 months of marriage because he came home and found his wife in bed with another man. Just makes me so much more determined to be smart about marriage and not to become another statistic. |
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Posted: 8/25/2004 11:57:28 PM EDT
[#40]
If more people where of your mind, the divorce rate wouldn't be what it is now. To bad marriage has to have more than one person to work. Unforunataly not everybody is on the same page, most of my str8 freinds went into the marriage for the right reasons only to find out they married a assh#le. |
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Posted: 8/26/2004 3:32:05 AM EDT
[#41]
My husband and I when we got married took it seriously. When we had our son I stayed home and when I did go back to work it was part time nights so he always had one parent with him. I felt I needed to be there to pick him up from school and to be home with him. It was never a question of whether he would be in day care. We decided early on that I would be home. We wanted our morals and ideals not someone elses pressed upon him. When we found out I was pregnant my husband had just gotten out of the Army,if he had not gotten the job he did at the university,he would have gone back in,but things work out for a reason. He started that job making 19,000 a year. We may not have had all the toys we do now,but we always had a roof over our heads,and groceries in the house. It really gets me when I hear well we can't live on one income,well yes you can,but you might not be able to eat out all the time,or go on expensive vacations,etc.,etc., you just have to scale back and as the kids get older you can do more and buy the toys you wanted. My son when he was in school [elementary] came home and asked why we weren't divorced? Since just about all the other kids in his class their parents were. Then he thought we should. Told him that was not going to happen. As he has gotten older we find my husband and I are a minority. Even when we went to parent teacher conferences,they were always surprised that my husband would come to. We have done everything as a team and united,which has worked for us. Granted at times things seemed tough, but we look back and some of our best times is when we had very little money. I do hope that maybe some in this generation of kids will go back to what others consider being old fashioned. Either that or I'm just getting old and was considered old before my time.
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Posted: 8/26/2004 3:43:50 AM EDT
[#42]
<Rant>And TV makes sex look like such a splendid casual thing....then they can not understand the girl who threw her baby in the dumpster, and says she did not know she was pregnant.....</Rant off>
grrrr.... Married for life, 25 years ago, but never had any children. Unfortunately, it makes you see the generations in a different light. The little monsters that are out there have no morals or respect for anything. Of course, they are not all bad, but the ones you see on the streets really make you wonder. I sincerely feel for parents dealing with children in our time. Good luck. |
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Posted: 8/26/2004 4:28:54 AM EDT
[#43]
I agree, some of the kids you see make you wonder. A couple of kids I work with are going to be teachers,and I actually told them I feel sorry for them,since alot of kids have no morals,respect,etc. There is no way I would want to be a teacher today since kids would rather tell you off or worse.
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Posted: 8/26/2004 4:33:48 AM EDT
[#44]
Hey Cat,
You have any single sisters? |
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Posted: 8/26/2004 5:30:06 AM EDT
[#45]
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Posted: 8/26/2004 5:47:39 AM EDT
[#46]
Wow did you nail this one on the head! I'm at an age where nephews and nieces and their friends are getting married. I've been to four weddings in the last year. All of them were the most overdone expensive affairs I have been to. One had so many candles that it overpowered the AC in the church and I thought we were all going to burn to death like a bad scene from Mel Gibson's Patriot. I couldn't count the bridesmaids or grooms there were so many. Three of the four receptions were catered events with live entertainment that was remiscent of the balls of anchient nobility. Yet, all three couples had lived together for over two years. Still the couples are certain the $15,000 to $35,000 was money well spent. I kept thinking of if these marriages would last and frankly don't give any of them five years and then I would think of the lowly event of my marriage and how we were married in the basement of a church for a whopping total of $50 and here we are 31 years later having never had a separation or even discussed one. Over it all, at wedding number four, my nephews second, I meet him at his car. Dressed in his tux, I shake his hand and say "This is number two and I'm not coming to number three.". The look on his face was priceless. Tj |
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Posted: 8/26/2004 6:08:07 AM EDT
[#47]
Actually I must be in the minority on this one. I tell my girls everyday why they SHOULD NOT have sex. From the STD's to the pregnancy, and on and on. I hope everything I have said has sunk in. My oldest is 17 (God help me) she has been in a relationship with the same guy for 2 years now. I think she is to young to be so exclusive, but they are good together. As far as I know, she has listened to me, she hasn't had sex. Hubby says I am niave and yes they are having sex. What bothers me though was she made a comment a few weeks back, said when I graduate S and I are going to move in together. WHAT? I know this line of thinking is normal today, I did it too with hubby now, but man I was 30 some years old when we met and swore I would never marry again. She'll be 19. How do I go about approaching this one? It's all to common place to try it out now, then marry, and if things don't work out, ok divorce here we come. Todays morals are really at an all time low. Kinda scary to think what they may be when they baby is all grown up, I know I'll be to old then to have a good handle on it. |
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Posted: 8/26/2004 7:18:53 AM EDT
[#48]
MrsWildweasel, I know what you mean. It irritates me to see all these people that put material desires before their children. We have made a lot of sacrifices in order for me to stay home with the kids. It's even worse when you hear them actually argue that daycare is good for the kids.
Some days it seems completely hopeless. Society as a whole is telling our kids that sex is just something fun to do with whoever you happen to be dating. I'd like to hear some thoughts on how to combat this. So far, we limit television, and only videos or DVDs since we don't have cable. I'd like to find a mid sized church with good youth groups as well, but not a "progressive" church that avoids condemning premarital sex. Of course I will teach them, but this doesn't seem like enough. Maybe others have some ideas. |
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Posted: 8/26/2004 7:26:46 AM EDT
[#49]
Mrsgungho, I wish you luck. My son who is 18 and graduated this year has been with this girl for awhile too. As my husband has repeatedly told me he is 18 and considered an adult. You just have to hope that how you have raised them have some bearing with them. I know I have to let him make his own mistakes,but sometimes it is really hard to watch. When my husband and I married he was 20 and I was 23. I compare my son to my husband and see how immature my son is at 18.My husband reminds me we were both in the Army at the time,so I am hoping that when my son completes boot camp that he will hopefully have matured some.On a side note we can always let them know we are there for our kids.
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Posted: 8/26/2004 7:30:52 AM EDT
[#50]
Ditto this, I worked when the girls were little, I even worked after our baby was born a year and a half ago, but we worked opposite shifts. Hubby got switched to days, I had no other option but days or quit. I quit. I can't put my baby in daycare knowing the best place for him is at home. He can get interaction with playdates and such. |
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