What do you guys think about this guy?
Patriot or not?

He seems down to earth and level headed.
anyone read his book? (The Federal Siege At Ruby Ridge)

Lets hear some opinions.

Bad mullet hair cut and a fool.  

As an American, he can hold to any belief he want's to, but I very much dislike his views on religion and race.  He is definately not a patriot in my eyes!

Regardless of this fact, nobody deserves the treatment he received.  He was set up, and then stomped out like a cigarette butt.  Severe government abuse at best, tyranny at worst.

From what I have seen and read the guy is a racist and that is disgusting.  That being said, there is no excuse for what the Federal Government did to him and his family.

All I know is what I've heard through the media
I have no opinion either way about him but whatever he did his family did'nt deserve to die
My heart goes out to him. The feds were never fully held accountable for what they did and that in itself is a crime. Whoever gave/approved those orders should be in jail. They should be sharing a cell with the guy who pulled the trigger. An unlawful order must be ignored

Exactly what DriftPunch said.  I don't agree with his views one bit but he went up in to the mountains and said leave me alone.  

Well the Federal Government couldn't stand for that.

I've got a signed copy of his book and bought him lunch one day. The storeis about his religious and racial beliefs are for the most part bullsh*t. This guy WAS guilty of sawing down two shotguns but this is the same kind of felony as side folding a postban gun and we all know people who have done that. Illegal? Yes. Should they kill your family over is? No. This debacle was over trying to get weight on Randy and use him as a "guy on the inside" of Aryan Nations.

By the way, I think the AN is as much a danger to themselves as anyone else. Very low priority on the threat to American security scale. Not nearly the same impact as a couple of really motivated "crips."

Lon Horinuchi - sniper extrodinaire. He can hit a woman armed with a baby through a small wndow at 100 yards.

What gets me all pissed off is short barreled shotguns are not against the law. You have to pay a tax is all($200). So this guy was shot at and his family was murdered because he did not pay his TAX. That is a total crock of shit. If he would have had the tax paid this would not have happened.

Because of what happened to him, doesn't make him a patriot. He was a victim. He tours or I guess used to with some of the gun shows speaking out against this tyrrany, thats pretty patriotic there.

And as for his views on race, they are his and inconsequential to any of this.

However in my mind I would say a true patriot does not see a difference in race, but they also do not or should not see the fact that another chooses to so long as it does not cause harm to another.

And you can go up and replace race with religion or any number of other words and it hopefully will still ring true with you.

Read "Every Knee Shall Bow" and you'll see that Randy Weaver's wife was the one running the show in that family. The house at Ruby Ridge would have ended up like the Branch Davidians home if she hadn't been murdered by the FBI. She just would not have given up,and would not have let Randy either. It's a good book, read it if you get a chance.

I spoke with him on an internet talk radio show one night. He seemed rather personable.

It was kind of interesting because he was saying that the media has given him a fair shake through all this, which is what prompted my call in.

I have never heard his name mentioned in the news without the words "white sepremist" in front of it. He was suprised to hear that.

He is a seperatist if anything. He chooses to live away from those "other" people. That's all.

This is America. Any one of us should be able to choose where we live and with whom we live. That is called "pursuit of happiness". Any law which dictates who I live near, who I do business with, or who I go to school with, is in direct opposition to our right to pursue happiness.

As for me, I don't care what color, or religion my neighbor is. Just as long as doesn't go picking peanuts out of my shit, we'll get along just fine. [:)]

critter, I findy Randys racial views far less extreme than those held by many members of the NAACP.

Also, I find his service as a former member of US special forces makes him more of a patriot than his later experiences.

Randy Weaver is an individual of whom my opinion is, I will admit, slightly slanted.  Being as he is a fmr Green Beter (and I am a fmr Ranger) we are brothers in arms.

 Having got that out of the way, here is the opinion...

 Randy Weaver is guilty of two things in the eyes of the Feds:
1) Not playing ball with the ATF.
2) Being a convservative Christian and a WHite Seperatist (NOT rpt NOT Supremacist, there is a world of difference!)

Now, friend Weaver IS on a short list of people I would like to talk to someday, just to find out where his head is in person.  Of course, I have the feeling the conversation would be enjoyable...

 Why did Weaver get in trouble?  THe Aryan Nations was suspected of NFA violations in that area, but ATF had no way to prove it.  Weaver and familiy attended ONE rpt ONE cengress of the AN, didn't like it, and that was that, as far as he was concerned.  He had no intention of ever going agian.  ATF wanted a mole in the AN for working on their NFA case, and approached Weaver wanting him to be that mole (new face and all that.)  Weaver picked up his marbles and went home.

 The NFA charges against Weaver were set up bvy another ATF snitch, whose name I do not at the moment recall.  Note that ATF did not get Weaver for short-barrel shotguns under NFA, but for short OAL instead.  That's right, Vicki, Sammy, and Randy Weaver, and Kevin Harris, were all shot over three-eights of an inch of WOODEN BUTTSTOCK.  The Shotguns upon which ATF built their case had legal barrels and short stocks.  MOst people do not know of the full complexities of the NFA, and more are prosecuted over short OAL than short barrels!

 So, they snookered him into making shotguns with short stocks (which never appeared in court, by the by..) and then used that as an excuse to shoot his family in a fit of pique - which cost us millions.

 It is interesting to note that Lon Horiuchi recieved nothing more sever than administrative suspension (with pay) and an instructor's billet at Quantico for his role in the Ruby Ridge assault, and that AFTER admitting that shooting Vicki Weaver was a "mistake."  ANy they made this man an INSTRUCTOR?!?

 Of course, they kept Horiuchi at Quantico until they needed him for Waco, andthen Janet Reno told America she would accept "full responsibility" for the events there.  I am still waiting - seems murder is still a capital crime...

FFZ

If being a white separatist is a crime, then all those rich people living in gated country-club communities will shortly be receiving visits from the BATF and FBI.  I understand that Mr. Weaver no longer espouses the "white supremacy" line, and that (as Hoople noted) his wife actually ran the show.  

The government picked Weaver because they thought they could get away with it.  And, in reality, while they didn't get what they wanted, they DID get away with killing his wife and son.  The lesson the majority of the public seems to have completely missed (thanks to the compliant media) is that what happened to Weaver can happen to anybody if the government decides it wants you to do something.  Weaver is by far not the only example.

I don't care for Mr. Weaver's personal opinions, but DriftPunch was right on the money:

Hear, hear, brother! Testify!

Our government at work. It's a beautiful thing, no?

Semper Fidelis
Jarhead out.

-----------------
"I wish it to be known that I was the last man of my tribe to surrender my rifle."
--Sitting Bull, July 19, 1881

Right on FFZ.........................

Preach on Bro.

Regardless of Weavers religious or racial views he was targeted by our govt............yes for a crime but good Gawd..................does our govt. typiclly kill a mans wife and dog and terrorize his family for such petty things?  

No..................many are far greater threat to Ceasar than this Weaver man but do they get the same treatment?

I think not!.

One day we will all be criminals.

I myself am I white supremacist.  At least, I prefer the company of people who speak the same language I do, share some of my opinions, and respect and celebrate the same cultural values. How many of you would deny this?  I've been to an Aryan Nations parade.  Thought they looked like a bunch of retards.  I suppose I'd better be on my guard for undercover BATF agents bearing wooden buttstocks and sandpaper.

All the labels and semantic arguments about "racism," white seperatism vs white supremacy, etc, are a complete waste of time and hypocritical to boot. How many white parents, if told only that one public school is 90% black and another is 90% white, would send their children to the latter?  HMMMM?  How many hispanics would for that matter? How many of you would?  The media used the "white supremacist" label to defame Mr. Weaver and draw attention away from the fact that federal agents shot a 14 year old boy in the back, shot his dog, and sniped his mother in the head while she was posing no threat once so ever. Horiuchi should be in jail and his supervisors deserve nothing better than a job cleaning gum off the sidewalk in front of the White House.

I personally heard him say he was not a racist. He said he has friends of many colors and origin.
He also said that he does not believe people of different ethnic backgrounds should marry each other. He claims diversity keeps America strong.

Never the less he is entitled to think what he wants. He never hurt anyone and his family was MURDERED.

I have met him three times. Have his sighned book and a pic with him. Say what you will the man was F**ked period. Another way to screw someone over to get what they want. And if you don't go along with it then you pay the price. which in his case was the ultimate.

Actually, I believe a short barrelled shotgun is classified as an AOW.  A $5 tax stamp.

As for Randy Weaver, I don't think he has given his Christian Identity brethren the time of day since that happened.  So perhaps his wife was also the driving force behind his (supposed) religious beliefs also, and he was just doing what she was doing.  The branch of Christian Identity that was/is espoused by the Aryan Nations (where he supposedly hung out) is called the "serpent seed" doctrine.  It's been my observation that these peoples soul motivation for their beliefs have been as an excuse to thump on people.  The media ONLY talks about these kind of Identity adherents.  The majority of Christian Identity adherents subscsribe to what you might call the "covenant" doctrine.  To put it briefly, you won't find any pictures of Hitler hanging on their walls.  What you will find are people that are patriotic, god-fearing, strongly pro-2nd amendment, and who treat their fellow countrymen of whatever race with due respect.  

Heck of a price to pay for a piece of wood cut off a little too short and not playing ball with the tyrants.

His sin was in failing to acquiesce to the divine power of the federal government and for that he and his family received no quarter. To survive, the tyranny must dispatch people of his ilk posthaste.

What ever happened to Lon Horinuchi? He get a promotion? I know I haven't heard of him being in jail or on death row as he should be.

What does that have to do with anything?  We're not bitching about the NAACP in this thread because they have nothing to do with this thread; their bad behavior does not justify his.

Please explain he difference from a sepratist and a supremacist, I know what the definitions are, but I don't see much difference.I live in a small city of approx.35,000 people,make up is 85% white,12%black 3%other according to the recent census.I myself envy the diverse communities that som of you come from, you can go across the world by just driving a few blocks. I think if you cut yourself from the world from other different from you, you'd miss out on alot of things to be used to your advantage.Yeah...I enjoy being around those who share the same culture that I come from but I don't want to know just that!That sh#% gets old after a while.

Fairly easy, tho the difference (to most) is semantic at best.

White Supremacist - THink Aryan Nation or Ku Klux Klan and you ahve the right general idea.  Also, the Nazi Party and its "Master Race" come to mind.  A Supremacist believes in the "innate superiority" of the Caucasian race (which is, as we all know, bullshit) and will furthewr the ams and station/status of the white people at the expense of all other races (Indian, Negroid, Mongoloid/Asian.)  

White Seperatist - usually someone fed up with all the talk of "minority assistance," "affirmative action," "racial tension," and suchlike who chooses to actively divorce himself from the situation.  White Supremacists do not actively seek associations with people of other races, but it is not unhear of to happen (tho such associations are forged from like values more than anything else and are therefore rare.)  A seperatists does not care about the advancement of any one race over another, and simply chooses to live quietly among his own kind.  

There are seperatists and supremacists among the other races as well, and both factions are fairly well represented among Negroes.  The NAACP has often been referred to as an organisation of Black Supremacists.

Me, I frankly don't care whether you are black, white, or rainbow striped.  Whle I am fairly conservative, I spend too much time in the mishmash of raced we have here, and I am primarily concerned that you are American above all else.

On a side note, I would also like to examine the misappropriation of the word "nigger."  While it has its origins in the Old South (a mispronounciation of the word "Negro" - which came out "Nigra" and was later corrupted) it has NOTHING rpt NOTHING to do with the colour of one's skin, and merely means "lazy" or "stingy," depending yupon context.  The main problem with the continued misuse of the word comes from the Black Supremacists at the NAACP, who also fight for reperations for slavery - a practice that was ended almost 150 years ago, and therefore directly affects few of the fortunes in America.  

Let us stop this misappropriation of the English language which causes so much unnecessary tension.

FFZb

Thank you, but I still think there may be one and the same.I don't think that too many minorities would be welcomed for diner at either house.

They are not the same. Did you read anything that the man above was kind enough to post for your benefit?

A supremacist believes that certain races are below them and therefore they are superior to that other race. They think they are of the "supreme" race. Hence the name supremacist.

A seperatist just wants to be around people of their own race. They don't want to be exposed to other cultures or ways of life, they are completely happy with their own. That does not mean that they think that other races are below them, they simply like their own race better, therefore they seperate themselves from the other races, hence the name seperatist.

Here are a couple of examples so you can understand it a little better...

1. I drive a Mustang, I also have a Ford F150. My wife also drives a Ford that I bought for her. Cheverolet is the scum of the earth, I would just as soon smash a Chevy into a concrete center divider as drive it to work one day. I am a Ford Supremacist.

2. I have two gun safes. One safe contains all of my evil looking weapons from ARs, Mini14, FALs and MGs. The other contains everything from Mausers, Rem 700, shotguns, 10/22s etc. I enjoy all of my guns pretty much equally, though I may lean a little towards the nasty guns. They could all be intermingled in the safes, but I keep them seperate. I am an Assault Weapon Seperatist.

If you still think they are the same I suggest you buy a dictionary.

Michael

Ponyboy,

"Assault Weapon Separatist"?

LMAO

Steve, SteyrAUG simply means he did not deserve what he got at all. The NAACP is far worse than any Randy Weavers out there, and yet they are not getting shot by government snipers or having their family slaughtered.

Randy did no "bad behavior" to justify. He wanted to be left alone, he didn't bother anyone. The NAACP is a bunch of assholes. I have observed the way they do things, met several of them, and they preach ignorance and hatred against honest people like me, period. Weaver did none of this, and for that his wife and 14 year old son were murdered. Dead, gone forever.

And Ghostface, you say "Thank you, but I still think there may be one and the same." Then why the hell did you ask the damn question????? Freefire explained the difference quite clearly, why not listen.  And WOW, you really live in a diverse community. 35,000 people and 85% white. You must get a lot of experience with the cultures you say you envy. I tell you what, why don't you move into my old apartment on the south side of chicago. You will soon learn to dislike all that diversity, and VERY quickly learn the difference in supremacy and sepratist.

If so, fair enough, however, illustrate the point by arguing the falsehoods regarding Weaver's [i]alleged[/i] bad behavior, not by pointing out the unsactioned bad behavior of someone else.  That's my point.



Maybe so, but again, this has nothing to do with whether or not he has engaged in "bad behavior".  And yes, I understand the argument that there is a hypocritical double standard; it's just misplaced here.




This may be true, I do not know enough to say otherwise and I certainly would not rely on the mainstream press for the info.

Thanx for the response.

Steve, I was in fact pointing out inconsistencies for perspective.

People generally accept Randy Weaver was racist.

People generally accept the NAACP is not racist.

Neither is true.

Just for the info he is going to be on the NBC news Thurs at 10:00PM at least here in Iowa.  [sniper]

If there is any one good thing that came of Ruby Ridge, it is that many, many eyes were opened. I personaly have met Randy and I suggest you put yourself in his shoes. If your wife and son were murdered and your best friend along with yourself wounded, would you be eager to surrender? Can you blame him for wanting to live away from a government that would attack and kill innocent citizens over shotguns a 1/4" too short?

I just happened to finish the book "Every knee shall bow" by Jess Walters and I would suggest anyone who thinks that R.W. and his family deserved what they got from the Gov., read this book (actually I listened to it on tape).  Yes, they (the Weavers) seemed a little paranoid......and in the end that may have contributed to their own demise, but make no mistake, if THEY (gov) want you, they will get you.  

I think Randy's biggest crime was his refusal to submit.  The arrogance that our government and its employees have when welding their power is incredible.  They ignore all common sense in their quest to uphold the law and "set an example " for all to see.  In the end, the gov. took action, not because of his crimes, but because he resisted their control.  Who will be next.....Not the folks in Waco.....but who?  Who will offend some gov agency by not bowing to their "Supreme Authority".  

Bow

Waterdog... all I can say is... AMEN !!!

Ponyboy, like I said I know what the difinition is for the two, in real life terms I see no difference.I asked the question to see if there was any persuading statements that would some how show that the two are different, all I saw was sugercoat.Just because I asked and someone was kind enough to give an explanation and I did'nt by, don't get mad.I do not need a dictionary,like I said I know the difinition for the two,in real life terms I don't think ther is much.I know if I showed up at the door for at either house, I'm sure I would not be weclomed and that's fine.Just don't sugar coat it,because I'm not buying.I do agree with the statements about the NAACP,they are full of it.What happened Mr. Weaver and his family is wrong period and no one can justify it.You can agree with me or not,but I don't see much difference between the two.This is America and I'm entitled to my opinion just like Mr. Weaver.

Yeah, by looking at my spelling and typing mistake some may think I need a dictionary.Whenever I get online the old lady gives me hell and I'm distracted, sorry.

 Ghostface, most folks are racial separratists. I live in a WASP rural community, moved here from the big city, because I wanted to live among people with similar valuse and attitudes.  Would you be welcome in my house? Of course.  I think that the 'melting pot' is a myth.  As for mr. weaver, I've never met him but he sounds like Mr Average America to me, which is the most frightening thing of all.....His wife and son were murdered, he and Mr. Harris were wounded, because mr. Weaver chose not to rat out a group that he cared little about.  I must commend Mr. Weaver on his self-control, if the b@st@ard who murdered my wife and son was still walking around loose, I'd make sure the scum died screaming his lungs out.....................If something like this happened to Randy Weaver, it can happen to any one of us...................Arrogant bureaucrats are not to be challenged, or they will attempt to kill your entire family.....