User Panel
Posted: 9/12/2004 9:19:23 PM EDT
I am so pissed tonight...calm, take a breathe...
We had a union meeting tonight. I was waiting for someone to stand up and spout out how the AWB is ending and we would all die because of it. I was going to stand up and yell "bull!" and then enlighten them on the reality of it all. This AWB crap has really got me going. I am just sick of all of the stupidity surrounding it and the ignorance of our membership. So no one said anything about the AWB. But when certain leadership people got up and spoke about "anybody but Bush" and how we need to go to this Kerry rally in October that's over in flint, on an abandoned plant site, I got thinking about Nafta. It got me really pissed, so I spoke up and asked what was happening with our "fight" against Nafta. We signed some post cards a while ago asking to ban the America's trade agreement. So I got mixed up and thought we were asking for a repeal of Nafta. I said, "What's happening with Nafta? Are we fighting to get it repealed or at least so we are on a level playing field?". After the usual, "the republican's are responsible for this, the republican's are responsible for Nafta." I said, "It was our democratic senators that screwed us", "The DEMOCRATS ARE THE ONE'S THAT SCREWED US!". I thought that might awaken some people and I was pretty pissed. He said that it was the republican's that were responsible for it. So, I also told the guy that Clinton was the one that signed it and it was a democratic controlled senate. After a quick exit from this guy, they didn't want me to ask anymore. I am so sick of our union and the democrats selling us out. That just pissed me off. If I have to go to some Kerry rally for the union, I am going to go with a Bush/Cheney sign. I grew up in a republican home, and consider myself an independent, cause I am sick of all of them. I vote for whom I expect to do the best job or at least, screw us the least. But I don't understand the moronic stupidity of our membership when it comes to the membership following the democrats blindly to their abomination. What did Ross Pero say?..."You are going to here a HUGE sucking sound taking our jobs down to Mexico!" Well, it happened and all I see around here is plant closing and people getting laid off. Our country is run by corporations and we think we have some control over the process. I've got news for you, WRONG! And we keep voting for one of the two parties. Stupid is as stupid does...just like lemings running over the cliff. When will we wake up? Oh yeah, and you think the electorial process is fair? One of our own got picked for a post in the electorial college and I can tell you with certainty, that if Bush wins that part of the state, Kerry will still get the electorial vote from this guy. Fair elections? Yeah, right... Bring on the computer voting booths! Rant off! |
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The Congress never voted on NAFTA, Clinton did it. Its called an executive agreement, I believe.
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Yes sir, that is one reverberation that is unmistaken. Good job handling those yo-yo's. |
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Good job--union thugs are dangerous with their usual level of stupidity--and beligerence. That took balls.
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I've heard of blue-balls.... but what does 'blackballed' mean?
I hope they don't hold a grudge. Good luck man! I'd buy you a beer if I could! |
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Well at least you are buying some of their crap. |
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You know, when this one lady got up and said that we needed to send Bush back to Texas, only half of the people clapped. Kerry's got some really problems with trying to get all of the union people behind him. I know I won't be voting for him. Ass! |
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? Where I work, you have to join the union to work. A lot of places are like that around here. I have seen some real good from our union and I have seen a lot of bad happen. But you are going to get that every time you have a collective. I support my brothers and sisters and am proud of the good I have seen. One example is how our local is trying to help the company keep jobs here and expand if possible, but I also hold a watchful eye too. There ARE some very, very good union people and there are some really stupid, bad, greedy and lazy people too. Just like every where else. But I also call it like it is. Nafta and Clinton screwed us and that's the truth. Period! |
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If I recall correctly, more Democrats in Congress than Republicans voted in favor of NAFTA.
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Unions have a legitimate place in history, and in today's workplace. Unfortunately, many choose to surrender their individuality in the voting booth, and well as in the workplace (contractually speaking, that is)
The unions should not be blind parrots for the Dems. I went round and round when I was local prez about the suppor t for Gore and the IL dem candidate for gov. They were pushing hard, and told me thay their support was based on work related issues, like collective bargaining and funding bills. I told the state association rep that most of my guys hunted and owned firearms, and they felt they could always get other jobs, but we couldn't get another 2nd amendment to the constitution. Kerry voted for NAFTA...Kennedy voted for NAFTA... Hmmm. |
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You do know that you can get back the % of your union dues that is used for political campaining
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I feel the same way. And good for you about sticking to your guns! Pun intended. |
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I belong to the CWA, Communication Workers of America. All they care about is their own selfish asses and all their cronies. They havent done SHIT for us. I havent had a raise in 5 years. The company sucks them at every turn. All they care about is the Gays, fudgepackers & lesbos!!! And all the fucks back Kerry & the Dems ,even when I point out that the tax breaks saved each one of us techs several thousand $$$$. The fucks just don't get it!!! The Republicans are their friends, not the Socialist Democrats!!! And the assholes keep asking me to give money to the Kerry campagin. So, I have to show them my Bush pin & then have fun withthe morons.
One guy I work with even turned a paid Kerry neighborhood canvaser into a Bush supporter. Just because we are union members doesn't mean we are useful idiots like our leadership. Compaines that have unions generally deserve them. |
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One of the few things the Dems did right... |
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Union member here. Bush/Cheney supporter. I'm always knocking heads with the BA about politics. The dems fucked us in this state and the union still wants us to support these same damn fools. Fuck'em. I'm voting Bush and all my co-workers know it.
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Give it a rest and go troll another thread. |
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You are correct, Sir! href=ceq.eh.doe.gov/nepa/regs/eos/eo12889.html |
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Where's my prize! |
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Your prize lies in the satisfaction that you have vast knowledge of the political system which you can use to impress women and gain many sexual favors that, in time, will ultimately leave you feeling empty as you die alone realizing that you have never truly loved.......wait - what was I talking about? |
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NAFTA passed with a Dem Congress and a Dem President. Remember when Al Gore debated Ross Perot on it? (Perot was anti NAFTA).
One of my grad school professors was one of the economists who had been working on NAFTA for 30 years; I think NAFTA is on balance a good thing. GunLvr |
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I wanted that one, too. But good on ya for standing up to them. |
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If I am not mistaken, Unions are incorporated, too.
Corporations are merely fictitious entities created for the collection of taxes. A corporation cannot run anything. Guns don't kill; people kill people (with or without guns). Corporations don't control the world; only people have the powerr to control or surrender control over themselves. There is no such thing as a drunk driving accident; you have vehicular assault by a drunk. The only control and power people have over you is what you give them. |
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Check your bed for a horse's head for the next week or so.
Good job. It takes a lot to stand up and be heard in a crowd like that. |
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I'm a union member too (IBEW) and my local has done a good job of bargaining over the years. My company would be really sticking it to us if they could, (they still try every chance they get) but the union keeps them in check and we've got an excellent pay and benefits package because of the union, so I don't necessarily think ALL unions suck.....but having said that, I do get tired of their unwavering support of the Democrats. I just debate it every time I hear a member spouting off about how the Republicans suck and the Dems are great. When it's all said and done, we go on about our business and they still wave their Dem flags and I just shake my head.....
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Upate I saw one of the union leadership today. He came up and shook my hand. He said that a bunch of people were bitching about me asking some questions and saying the Democrats screwed us. But he said I was right and there are a lot of them that think the same way I do. Just that I had the balls to say it. We'll see what happens within the next month and what happens at the next meeting. But I am not going to let this go. I told the guy that I believe we need to take the people to task about their agenda and how they are sticking us in the back. Rage, Rage against the night Do not go gentle into that good night, Old age should burn and rave at close of day; Rage, rage against the dying of the light. Though wise men at their end know dark is right, Because their words had forked no lighting they Do not go gentle into that good night. Good men, the last wave by, crying how bright Their frail deeds might have danced in a green bay, Rage, rage against the dying of the light. Wild men who caught and sang the sun in flight, And learn, too late, they grieved it on its way, Do not go gentle into that good night. Grave men, near death, who see with blinding sight Blind eyes could blaze like meteors and be gay, Rage, rage against the dying of the light. And you, my father, there on the sad height, Curse, bless, me now with your fierce tears, I pray. Do not go gentle into that good night Rage, rage against the dying of the light. |
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Have you opted out of having your dues support things you dont support? You can. Pass the word. IIRC there are forms you have to sign and you may get some grief over it but what the hell.
S.O. |
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Yep. If you stand in the way of the free market you will either starve or get run over. I look forward to the day when 70 million middle class Mexicans are buying US goods and services. |
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When you belong to a socialist union it is kind of pointless to bitch about socialism.
SGatr15 |
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Clinton inherited NAFTA from Bush, Sr.
Those crazy Repubs, always supporting things ! |
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I, a card carrying Teamster, looked for case law on this and could find none. There would be nothing more I would like than to not be giving Ketchup money..... Links??? |
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That url shows the executive order used to implement the agreement; NOT to approve it.
www.stoptheftaa.org/ftaa/nafta.html Try Google. |
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There was some law about it or something not to long ago> I dont know the particulars as I dont work for a union and never needed it. IIRC they either had to hold back money you paid in that would have gone to a cause and use it only for collective bargining type activities or strike wages or refund it to you.
S.O. |
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You can have refunded to you that part of dues that goes for political purposes. Union dues cannot be donated to any candidate. That is why unions have PACs. |
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Problem is trusting what they tell you it is spent on as I understand it they keep finaicial records tightly closed to prevent dues "leakage" S.O. |
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As a local union financial secretary, I can tell you that reports ( ones I make to the government) on local finances are, by law, open for public inspection. Also, I will show all current records to ANY local member that cares to see them. |
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Yes look into this. Mr signed the forms, actually had to really make a stink about it because the union said they didn't think that was allowed. He was right and his dues do NOT go to the democratic party anymore. Several other union members followed suit along with him. Takes one ballsy guy to get the motion going. |
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I am for Bush
But he is wrong with this overtime thing And a few other things, we need to let him know it somehow -- but not with the election |
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I saw something on TV last night that Unions had contributed 96 million to Kerry's Campaign and that 40% of Union people vote Rebulican. There was some guys striking because none of there money went to Bush.
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You'll feel the breeze of porcine wings flapping in your pants before that happens. The Mexican gov't will find some reason to erect new trade barriers around Mexico so that Mexicans will have to buy "Mexican only". And they'll probably tie it into immigration status of Mexican illegals in the USA or to the reannexation of Aztlan..... think I'm kidding? Just you wait. |
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Ann Coulter had a pretty good column on this subject:
IN THE PAST decade, the AFL-CIO has lobbied Congress on three major issues of any importance to union members: (1) Oppose the North American Free Trade Agreement; (2) Oppose permanent normal trade relations with China; (3) Support drilling for oil in Alaska's Arctic National Wildlife Refuge. The unions lost every vote. Demonstrating his savvy political skills, the head of the AFL-CIO, John Sweeney, repeatedly throws the federation's support to political candidates who opposed labor on all three issues. So if you ever find yourself negotiating with Sweeney, make sure your opening bid is "nothing." Sweeney's curious lose-at-any-price strategy has cost the unions everything. The only two Democratic presidential candidates to vote with the unions on any of these issues -- not all, but any -- were Representatives Dick Gephardt and Dennis Kucinich. Gephardt was out of the race after the first primary, and Kucinich can't break beyond the Aliens-Kidnapped-My-Mother crowd. (Dennis Kucinich did his tax return this week, and under "occupation" he wrote "Jay Leno punch line.") There is only one candidate for president who didn't vote for NAFTA, didn't vote for trade with China and supported drilling in ANWR. That candidate is George Bush. He got into office by beating Al Gore -- the guy who was the head cheerleader for NAFTA. And unlike Dick Gephardt, Bush spends more time on the phone with Jimmy Hoffa than with Barbra Streisand. As president, Bush enraged free traders -- and our precious European "allies" -- by imposing tariffs on steel imports. Sweeney has rewarded Bush by calling him a "horror" for organized labor. Apparently what "organized labor" really wants isn't good jobs at good wages, but ... abortion on demand! The AFL-CIO has vowed to devote massive union resources against Bush in the crucial swing states of Missouri, Ohio and Florida in the coming election. Strictly following his strategy of selling union votes for nothing, the AFL-CIO has endorsed Sen. John Kerry -- who voted for NAFTA, voted for trade with China and voted against drilling for oil in Alaska. Skilled laborers will have to wait another day for "fair trade" and high-paying jobs in Alaska, but at least Sweeney's candidate supports the issues that really matter to the average blue-collar worker: gay marriage, global warming treaties and hybrid cars. Kerry denounces "Benedict Arnold" CEOs who ship "American jobs overseas." (Experts are still trying to figure out why Kerry didn't mention his service in Vietnam in that statement.) Sweeney seems to be satisfied with Kerry's explanation that -- like his vote for war with Iraq -- he voted for free trade, but then was shocked when free trade resulted. Sen. John Edwards calls protection of U.S. jobs "a moral issue." Reminding audiences that he is the son of a mill worker almost as often as Kerry mentions that he served in Vietnam, Edwards says that "when we talk about trade, we are talking about values." As the son of a mill worker, he has seen with his "own eyes" what bad trade agreements "do to people." Of the evil trade agreements (supported by AFL-CIO's candidate) Edwards says: "Those trade deals were wrong. They cost us too many jobs and lowered our standards." Except -- like Kerry -- Edwards also voted for those trade agreements every chance he got. In 2000, Edwards voted for trade with China. Having seen with his "own eyes" what happens "when the mill shuts down," Edwards voted to shut down a few more mills. Edwards also voted his conscience to oppose drilling in Alaska. Whenever Edwards' conscience speaks to him, it sounds remarkably like Barbra Streisand. Edwards' only fig leaf for claiming he backs labor is a hypothetical vote he never actually cast. He bravely claims he would have voted against NAFTA -- if only he had been in the Senate when it came up for a vote. That's an interesting moral calculus. Edwards didn't mind forcing American workers to compete with a billion Chinese -- famously including child workers and slave laborers. But trade with Canada and Mexico he says would have offended his delicate moral sensibilities. In his stump speech, Edwards implies he ran against Jesse Helms by saying he beat "the Jesse Helms machine" to win his Senate seat. It was a real David and Goliath match-up -- pitting a poor, beleaguered multimillionaire trial lawyer against an elderly senator of humble means. But the mere mention of Helms' name invariably elicits sneers from the party of the little guy. Helms voted with the AFL-CIO on all three big labor issues -- against NAFTA, against trade with China and for half a million good jobs in Alaska. Indeed, Helms was one of the main lobbyists against trade with China. The guy Edwards actually beat, Lauch Faircloth, was in the Senate for only one of these votes. The AFL-CIO didn't have to take Faircloth's word on how he might have voted on NAFTA: He voted against it. The AFL-CIO endorsed Edwards and opposed Faircloth and Helms. It's not particularly surprising that the party of trial lawyers, environmentalists and Hollywood actresses keeps voting against blue collar workers. What's strange is that the AFL-CIO keeps voting against blue-collar workers, too. (edited to fix article) |
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From what I have read, FDR made some kind of deal with the Unions way back when. The democrats would support the unions with their congressional votes, but the unions would get the vote out for the democrats. That's why in the union leadership, the democrats can do no wrong, that's my understanding anyway. Coruption is as coruption does. |
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Executive Orders are independent of congressional action - it stands on it's own. "implement" and "approve" are not opposites - Clinton made NAFTA happen. |
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The House has already voted to strike the new overtime rules. Happened on 9/10/04. Remember the Alamo, and God Bless Texas... |
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CavVet: If you are contributing to COPE you can sign a card to have that stopped. I'd be interested in getting my part of CWA's sKerry's contributions back too.
We had our new DDR at a meeting and the first thing we told him was not to bring any Democratic party stickers, buttons, or other material to any of our meetings. So far he has complied. We had several members leave the union after Morton Barr's(CWA national president) comments on gay rights and gun control. Unions are a a double edged sword. Our pay and benifits wouldnt be anywhere near what they are now without them but damn their politics suck at times. |
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It's called the Beck decision. It's toothless, though, because unions lie on their financial forms about where the cash goes. For example, prior to Beck, one union listed "political activity" on their forms with a large dollar amount . . . after Beck, that category disappeared, but a new category appeared called "community education" wit a similar dollar amount. I can't remember which union, it was in Wash. State, though. I'll see if I can find the info. In the meantime, check out www.nrtw.org. |
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An Executive Order cannot be issued unless it is based in the facts of LAW. Every single Executive Order in the public record references the appropriate section of the US Code that grants the President the authority to issue the Order in the first place. The President cannot make NAFTA happen by EO. It's simply non-sensical and would not stand one second of judicial review (court challenge). Here's how it goes: President signs treaty with head of state of another country. Treaty is still not law binding on the United States. Treaty is submitted to the Senate for ratification. Treaty is ratified (approved) by 2/3 of the Senate, and it becomes the law of the land. Treaty is not ratified, and it hangs in limbo forever, not binding on the United States. President issues Executive Order (s) to his Cabinet agencies to implement regulations to enforce the law (treaty). Why is knowledge of how our Government works so subject to tinfoil hat paranoia? |
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