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Posted: 12/16/2009 9:20:25 AM EDT
There are such timely passages in this book. Came across this yesterday.
"I quit when medicine was placed under State control, some years ago,"
said Dr. Hendricks. "Do you know what it takes to perform a brain
operation? Do you know the kind of skill it demands, and the years of
passionate, merciless, excruciating devotion that go to acquire that
skill? That was what I would not place at the disposal of men whose
sole qualification to rule me was their capacity to spout the
fraudulent generalities that got them elected to the privilege of
enforcing their wishes at the point of a gun. I would not let them
dictate the purpose for which my years of study had been spent, or the
conditions of my work, or my choice of patients, or the amount of my
reward.
I observed that in all the discussions that preceded the enslavement of
medicine, men discussed everything-except the desires of the doctors.
Men considered only the 'welfare' of the patients, with no thought for
those who were to provide it. That a doctor should have any right,
desire or choice in the matter, was regarded as irrelevant selfishness;
his is not to choose, they said, only 'to serve.' That a man who's
willing to work under compulsion is too dangerous a brute to entrust
with a job in the stockyards-never occurred to those who proposed to
help the sick by making life impossible for the healthy.
I have often wondered at the smugness with which people assert their
right to enslave me, to control my work, to force my will, to violate
my conscience, to stifle my mind-yet what is it that they expect to
depend on, when they lie on an operating table under my hands? Their
moral code has taught them to believe that it is safe to rely on the
virtue of their victims.
Well, that is the virtue I have withdrawn. Let them discover the kind
of doctors that their system will now produce. Let them discover, in
their operating rooms and hospital wards, that it is not safe to place
their lives in the hands of a man whose life they have throttled. It is
not safe, if he is the sort of man who resents it-and still less safe,
if he is the sort who doesn't."




Link Posted: 12/16/2009 9:29:30 AM EDT
That's a great passage.  

Link Posted: 12/16/2009 3:28:09 PM EDT
bump....
Link Posted: 12/16/2009 3:40:08 PM EDT




Originally Posted By AJ-IN-JAX:

bump....


thanks for reminding me.

Link Posted: 12/16/2009 3:41:02 PM EDT
Written more than 50 years by someone who, as a girl, stood on a balcony in St. Petersburg and watched the riots as the communists took over in 1917.

The quote is striking because we are now the ones standing on the balcony.
Link Posted: 12/16/2009 3:41:35 PM EDT
Everything that's happening right now is either from Atlas Shrugged or 1984.  Seriously, they're like the playbooks, but for the wrong side.
Link Posted: 12/16/2009 3:43:57 PM EDT
I loved that book...practically every page was ripped from the headlines today. Very timely.
Link Posted: 12/16/2009 3:44:15 PM EDT
Fantastic passage!!!
Link Posted: 12/16/2009 3:49:03 PM EDT



Originally Posted By LibertyShip:


Written more than 50 years by someone who, as a girl, stood on a balcony in St. Petersburg and watched the riots as the communists took over in 1917.



The quote is striking because we are now the ones standing on the balcony.


I stole the OP and part of your reply to start a chain email. I changed the last line to "What's the view from your balcony?"



 
Link Posted: 12/16/2009 3:54:58 PM EDT
Originally Posted By NoStockBikes:

Originally Posted By LibertyShip:
Written more than 50 years by someone who, as a girl, stood on a balcony in St. Petersburg and watched the riots as the communists took over in 1917.

The quote is striking because we are now the ones standing on the balcony.

I stole the OP and part of your reply to start a chain email. I changed the last line to "What's the view from your balcony?"
 


Good job.  That should be fun.
Link Posted: 12/16/2009 3:56:54 PM EDT


I'm going to start re-reading that tonight.

Link Posted: 12/16/2009 3:58:34 PM EDT
Detroit is the petri dish of the socialist experiment in the USA.
Link Posted: 12/16/2009 4:08:18 PM EDT



Originally Posted By LoBrau:


Everything that's happening right now is either from Atlas Shrugged or 1984.  Seriously, they're like the playbooks, but for the wrong side.


You're forgetting one..........










 
Link Posted: 12/16/2009 4:13:44 PM EDT
So that's why the AMA came out in support of Obamacare.
Link Posted: 12/16/2009 4:15:18 PM EDT
Originally Posted By AJ-IN-JAX:

Originally Posted By LoBrau:
Everything that's happening right now is either from Atlas Shrugged or 1984.  Seriously, they're like the playbooks, but for the wrong side.

You're forgetting one..........


http://howtosplitanatom.com/wp-content/brave-new-world.jpg
 


Yep, that one too.

Link Posted: 12/16/2009 4:15:34 PM EDT
Originally Posted By NoStockBikes:

Originally Posted By LibertyShip:
Written more than 50 years by someone who, as a girl, stood on a balcony in St. Petersburg and watched the riots as the communists took over in 1917.

The quote is striking because we are now the ones standing on the balcony.

I stole the OP and part of your reply to start a chain email. I changed the last line to "What's the view from your balcony?"
 


Did the same thing and FaceBook'ed it... waiting for the shit storm.
Link Posted: 12/16/2009 4:18:13 PM EDT
Just read that page last night.
Link Posted: 12/16/2009 4:23:02 PM EDT
I've already been told by my Surgeon, at my Sept. operation, that if the HCB passes he's out. It's hard enough to make money with Government regulations and the  deadbeats, let alone be run by the Government.

Life is going to get interesting, to say the least.
Link Posted: 12/16/2009 4:30:40 PM EDT
FBO
Link Posted: 12/16/2009 4:35:46 PM EDT
Wow.

That sums up the feelings of many of my peers.  I need to dig out my copy & get reading.
Link Posted: 12/16/2009 4:45:47 PM EDT
Cool quote!

That is one of the few books I will have to read again. First I have to finish "Road to Serfdom" by F.A. Hayek.
Link Posted: 12/16/2009 4:50:26 PM EDT
Originally Posted By LibertyShip:
Written more than 50 years by someone who, as a girl, stood on a balcony in St. Petersburg and watched the riots as the communists took over in 1917.

The quote is striking because we are now the ones standing on the balcony.


Meh, I'd stand on the balcony, but American Idol is on... That book was prophetic in so many ways.
Link Posted: 12/16/2009 4:51:34 PM EDT
yup, we're fucking living AS and just about every other warning book. only thing missing is zombies
Link Posted: 12/16/2009 5:00:00 PM EDT
This is EXACTLY what happened to my grandfather. He worked for himself all his life, he paid for his studies (and his brother's) from his own pocket, he was always fair to his patients and in the end he closed down shop when socialized medicine came...

Blame Canada...
Link Posted: 12/16/2009 5:05:45 PM EDT
Originally Posted By AROptics:
So that's why the AMA came out in support of Obamacare.


That's like when the Association of Chiefs of Police come out for gun control.

Link Posted: 12/16/2009 5:16:47 PM EDT
For those who have not read Atlas Shrugged, I have a PDF version that I can email.  IM me & I'll send it on.
Link Posted: 12/16/2009 5:17:15 PM EDT
Originally Posted By LibertyShip:
Originally Posted By AROptics:
So that's why the AMA came out in support of Obamacare.


That's like when the Association of Chiefs of Police come out for gun control.



Like they do in Canada?

Our "Association of Chiefs of Police" is run without any accountability or transparency, is yours the same way?
Link Posted: 12/16/2009 5:17:30 PM EDT
Originally Posted By KEA:
For those who have not read Atlas Shrugged, I have a PDF version that I can email.  IM me & I'll send it on.


I don't think you can send e-mails over a terabyte, yet.
Link Posted: 12/16/2009 5:19:02 PM EDT
Originally Posted By AROptics:
So that's why the AMA came out in support of Obamacare.


Just to educate you:  Only 19% of practicing doctors are members of the AMA.

The rest of us were smart enough not to join.  I've never been a member.  

The AMA looks out for the interests of the AMA.

You think people complain about doctors now, you ain't seen nothing.
Link Posted: 12/16/2009 5:21:06 PM EDT
I predict the advent of medical tourism.  Fly to a hospital in Costa Rica, get treated by doctors that flee Obamacare, take a week off to recuperate, then go home.
Link Posted: 12/16/2009 5:21:17 PM EDT
Originally Posted By NoStockBikes:

Originally Posted By LibertyShip:
Written more than 50 years by someone who, as a girl, stood on a balcony in St. Petersburg and watched the riots as the communists took over in 1917.

The quote is striking because we are now the ones standing on the balcony.

I stole the OP and part of your reply to start a chain email. I changed the last line to "What's the view from your balcony?"
 


Sent a copy of the quote & a PDF version of the book to my high school class president who is of like mind.  He will send it to some 90 classmates that still keep in touch.

Passing the word when it's an eye opener.
Link Posted: 12/16/2009 5:24:12 PM EDT
Originally Posted By C-4:
Originally Posted By AROptics:
So that's why the AMA came out in support of Obamacare.


Just to educate you:  Only 19% of practicing doctors are members of the AMA.

The rest of us were smart enough not to join.  I've never been a member.  

The AMA looks out for the interests of the AMA.

You think people complain about doctors now, you ain't seen nothing.


Nor have I... shrugged off their sales-pitch-with-freebies(!!!11) in med school.

Never joined... and that's not going to change any time soon.
Link Posted: 12/16/2009 5:27:08 PM EDT
Originally Posted By valheru21:
Originally Posted By KEA:
For those who have not read Atlas Shrugged, I have a PDF version that I can email.  IM me & I'll send it on.


I don't think you can send e-mails over a terabyte, yet.


6.2 MB - it's 891 pages 8x11 simple formatted pages
Link Posted: 12/16/2009 5:28:31 PM EDT
Originally Posted By LoBrau:
Everything that's happening right now is either from Atlas Shrugged or 1984.  Seriously, they're like the playbooks, but for the wrong side.


More like "Animal Farm".  Guess who is Napoleon.
Link Posted: 12/16/2009 5:31:56 PM EDT
My wife picked me up a copy and I started reading without looking to the back cover or the preface.  Anyway, it sounded so damn current but all the references to "long distance phone calls" and "typewriters" got me looking for the print date.  I was kind of surprized to see that it was written in the 50's. FBO!
Link Posted: 12/16/2009 5:49:00 PM EDT
Link Posted: 12/16/2009 5:58:37 PM EDT
The thing to remember is there isn't any current plans for government employment of the medical professionals.  But when they remove the incentives to work in medicine, you can bet anyone with medical training will become government employees.  Through force, naturally.
Link Posted: 12/16/2009 6:19:36 PM EDT
Originally Posted By TheGrayMan:
Originally Posted By C-4:
Originally Posted By AROptics:
So that's why the AMA came out in support of Obamacare.


Just to educate you:  Only 19% of practicing doctors are members of the AMA.

The rest of us were smart enough not to join.  I've never been a member.  

The AMA looks out for the interests of the AMA.

You think people complain about doctors now, you ain't seen nothing.


Nor have I... shrugged off their sales-pitch-with-freebies(!!!11) in med school.

Never joined... and that's not going to change any time soon.


I drank the free membership Kool-Aid as a student until learning more about their politics. Shredded my student card and never rejoined.
Link Posted: 12/16/2009 6:23:21 PM EDT
Superb passage.

Link Posted: 12/16/2009 6:26:05 PM EDT
Originally Posted By sleepdr:
Originally Posted By TheGrayMan:
Originally Posted By C-4:
Originally Posted By AROptics:
So that's why the AMA came out in support of Obamacare.


Just to educate you:  Only 19% of practicing doctors are members of the AMA.

The rest of us were smart enough not to join.  I've never been a member.  

The AMA looks out for the interests of the AMA.

You think people complain about doctors now, you ain't seen nothing.


Nor have I... shrugged off their sales-pitch-with-freebies(!!!11) in med school.

Never joined... and that's not going to change any time soon.


I drank the free membership Kool-Aid as a student until learning more about their politics. Shredded my student card and never rejoined.


It's OK, brother... they got a lot of my classmates with that "Hey Kid!  First one's always free..." pitch.  A lot of them later let their memberships lapse.
Link Posted: 12/16/2009 6:26:25 PM EDT
Originally Posted By GunLvrPHD:
Originally Posted By LoBrau:
Everything that's happening right now is either from Atlas Shrugged or 1984.  Seriously, they're like the playbooks, but for the wrong side.


More like "Animal Farm".  Guess who is Napoleon.


Ah,Animal Farm.We are now seeing how true this quote is "all animals are equal,but some are more equal than others".George Orwell was a fucking prophet of things to come.
Link Posted: 12/16/2009 6:32:16 PM EDT



Originally Posted By Fourays2:


yup, we're fucking living AS and just about every other warning book. only thing missing is zombies

Isn't that what those who want the handouts are, zombies? They wanna suck the

life right out of everyone else.  Force you to turn into one of them or just die.



And when all has been sucked into the blackness they will march on to drain the

rest of the world.
 
Link Posted: 12/16/2009 6:38:28 PM EDT
Originally Posted By KEA:
Originally Posted By valheru21:
Originally Posted By KEA:
For those who have not read Atlas Shrugged, I have a PDF version that I can email.  IM me & I'll send it on.


I don't think you can send e-mails over a terabyte, yet.


6.2 MB - it's 891 pages 8x11 simple formatted pages


Clearly you missed the joke.  
Link Posted: 12/16/2009 7:08:08 PM EDT
Is there an Atlas Shrugged audio version? I travel a lot and it hinders my ability to read.
Link Posted: 12/16/2009 7:10:20 PM EDT
Originally Posted By AROptics:
So that's why the AMA came out in support of Obamacare.



Maybe the AMA did, but I don't know a single doctor who supports Obamacare.

Link Posted: 12/16/2009 7:11:37 PM EDT
Originally Posted By A_Free_Man:
Originally Posted By AROptics:
So that's why the AMA came out in support of Obamacare.



Maybe the AMA did, but I don't know a single doctor who supports Obamacare.



Bingo
Link Posted: 12/16/2009 7:13:00 PM EDT
Originally Posted By valheru21:
Originally Posted By KEA:
Originally Posted By valheru21:
Originally Posted By KEA:
For those who have not read Atlas Shrugged, I have a PDF version that I can email.  IM me & I'll send it on.


I don't think you can send e-mails over a terabyte, yet.


6.2 MB - it's 891 pages 8x11 simple formatted pages


Clearly you missed the joke.  


It felt like a terabyte when reading it AND the PDF version is harder to read than my 1985, 52nd printing, 1084 page paperback version!   But it IS free as long as my bandwidth isn't exceeded.
Link Posted: 12/16/2009 7:13:48 PM EDT
Originally Posted By AJ-IN-JAX:
There are such timely passages in this book. Came across this yesterday.


"I quit when medicine was placed under State control, some years ago,"said Dr. Hendricks. "Do you know what it takes to perform a brainoperation? Do you know the kind of skill it demands, and the years ofpassionate, merciless, excruciating devotion that go to acquire thatskill? That was what I would not place at the disposal of men whosesole qualification to rule me was their capacity to spout thefraudulent generalities that got them elected to the privilege ofenforcing their wishes at the point of a gun. I would not let themdictate the purpose for which my years of study had been spent, or theconditions of my work, or my choice of patients, or the amount of myreward.

I observed that in all the discussions that preceded the enslavement ofmedicine, men discussed everything-except the desires of the doctors.Men considered only the 'welfare' of the patients, with no thought forthose who were to provide it. That a doctor should have any right,desire or choice in the matter, was regarded as irrelevant selfishness;his is not to choose, they said, only 'to serve.' That a man who'swilling to work under compulsion is too dangerous a brute to entrustwith a job in the stockyards-never occurred to those who proposed tohelp the sick by making life impossible for the healthy.

I have often wondered at the smugness with which people assert theirright to enslave me, to control my work, to force my will, to violatemy conscience, to stifle my mind-yet what is it that they expect todepend on, when they lie on an operating table under my hands? Theirmoral code has taught them to believe that it is safe to rely on thevirtue of their victims.

Well, that is the virtue I have withdrawn. Let them discover the kindof doctors that their system will now produce. Let them discover, intheir operating rooms and hospital wards, that it is not safe to placetheir lives in the hands of a man whose life they have throttled. It isnot safe, if he is the sort of man who resents it-and still less safe,if he is the sort who doesn't."




So, what percentage of doctors graduated from state universities or got government loans and grants?
Link Posted: 12/16/2009 7:17:02 PM EDT



Originally Posted By chewbacca:


Is there an Atlas Shrugged audio version? I travel a lot and it hinders my ability to read.


An audiobook would be hazardous to your health, it would put you straight to sleep.  




 
Link Posted: 12/16/2009 7:18:36 PM EDT
Originally Posted By not_sure:
Originally Posted By AJ-IN-JAX:
There are such timely passages in this book. Came across this yesterday.


"I quit when medicine was placed under State control, some years ago,"said Dr. Hendricks. "Do you know what it takes to perform a brainoperation? Do you know the kind of skill it demands, and the years ofpassionate, merciless, excruciating devotion that go to acquire thatskill? That was what I would not place at the disposal of men whosesole qualification to rule me was their capacity to spout thefraudulent generalities that got them elected to the privilege ofenforcing their wishes at the point of a gun. I would not let themdictate the purpose for which my years of study had been spent, or theconditions of my work, or my choice of patients, or the amount of myreward.

I observed that in all the discussions that preceded the enslavement ofmedicine, men discussed everything-except the desires of the doctors.Men considered only the 'welfare' of the patients, with no thought forthose who were to provide it. That a doctor should have any right,desire or choice in the matter, was regarded as irrelevant selfishness;his is not to choose, they said, only 'to serve.' That a man who'swilling to work under compulsion is too dangerous a brute to entrustwith a job in the stockyards-never occurred to those who proposed tohelp the sick by making life impossible for the healthy.

I have often wondered at the smugness with which people assert theirright to enslave me, to control my work, to force my will, to violatemy conscience, to stifle my mind-yet what is it that they expect todepend on, when they lie on an operating table under my hands? Theirmoral code has taught them to believe that it is safe to rely on thevirtue of their victims.

Well, that is the virtue I have withdrawn. Let them discover the kindof doctors that their system will now produce. Let them discover, intheir operating rooms and hospital wards, that it is not safe to placetheir lives in the hands of a man whose life they have throttled. It isnot safe, if he is the sort of man who resents it-and still less safe,if he is the sort who doesn't."




So, what percentage of doctors graduated from state universities or got government loans and grants?


Or that didn't have medicade pay for there residency training?
Link Posted: 12/16/2009 7:21:08 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/16/2009 7:24:54 PM EDT by sleepdr]
Originally Posted By not_sure:

So, what percentage of doctors graduated from state universities or got government loans and grants?


A good number went to state universities.  Many med schools are state universities simply due to the large logistical support needed to run a med school.  Government loans - like Staffords? Many, many, many, and many more.  How many residencies could exist without Medicaid? I'm not sure any significant number.

I graduated from a state university... as an out-of-state resident paying hellishly high tuition.  I got loans, with some part of the interest subsidized by the .gov.  Some private loans at higher interest.  No undergrad student loans, thanks to scholarships and working 40+ hours/week while carrying 18 credits.  No grants.  Would you like to know how I'm helped by that?

By paying incredibly high income taxes, and not being able to write off my student loan interest on taxes.  Is this hard for people to understand?  Simply going to a state university doesn't make one a substandard doctor - I managed somehow to make it into a Harvard residency.  Simply going to a state university doesn't make a doctor a .gov leech or breed any particular love for government meddling in medicine.  If anything, it embitters us more.  

My sister, an internist, has a much more liberal utopian view of medicine.  We've agreed not to discuss medical politics at family holiday dinners.  I have much more pleasant conversations with my attorney in-laws.
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