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Posted: 12/13/2005 6:29:03 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/13/2005 6:32:45 PM EDT by Mr-H]
Hey all. I am a little shaken up right now and can't quite think straight now. Here's the story real quick. It's really quite ridiculous.

My mom made an assortment of Christmas candies and cookies. However, there are only a few that my brother likes. My mom gave some of this candy to my sister-in-law Linda. My (half)brother told my mom to tell my sister-in-law to leave the kind he likes behind. Linda must have not gotten the message, because she took it all. Anyway, my brother finds out and raises HELL. I mean he's sitting there screaming at my mom Why the F*** didn't you tell her to leave those! He's just pounding his fists and giving my mom a major guilt trip at the TOP of his lungs.

So anyway, I step in and say Dammit! Quit screaming at mom! They're just some cookies! After a few moment of silence and him kind of shaking, my brother jumps up from his chair and rushes me. He takes a swing at me with his left arm, and I redirect it. At this point I reach in and grap on to his face, pushing and keeping his head back. He took another swing at me that connected on my left shoulder. For some reason, I did not strike
him (mosty because he's my brother and my mom was right there watching in horror - it'd be like a strike at her). At this point my mom jumps in the middle trying to stop us. I tell my brother to back off. And push him away. He keeps coming at me. What's next is still a blurr, but I remember hearing a "crack" and thinking Oh no, mom. She is around 60 and has very weak bones. So I start screaming I think mom's hurt! Stop! I'm sorry - just back off! So finally he does. Some more verbal argument ensues, and then he starts screaming at mom. Meanwhile I am asking her if she is alright. She told me she was, so I just go in the other room and my brother starts arguing with her again, yelling about how she never does anything for him or stands up for him. And that's where we are now.

I don't know what to do.

Some things to consider:

This half-brother has a history of mental illness and instability (he acts like a child pretty much, but he is phyisically very large - I think there is some animosity between him and I as he is 30 and lives at home, whereas I am 19 and I do not) I am certain he has some serious mental problems.

My mom has no means of protecting herself

Sticking around may provoke my half-brother again

Leaving would leave my mom unprotected

Taking her to my house my drive my brother into even more anger, thus, causing problems when she gets back.

This is not a joke and any advice would be greatly appreciated. if this is poorly typed, I appologize.
Link Posted: 12/13/2005 6:31:18 PM EDT
Them must be some good cookies.
Link Posted: 12/13/2005 6:31:28 PM EDT
... Holiday Season - it can be stressful for some
Link Posted: 12/13/2005 6:31:39 PM EDT
Call the cops. Remember, your Mom is stuck with him. Start the document trail now.
Link Posted: 12/13/2005 6:31:43 PM EDT
draw down....

or call the cops.. just hide the dog 1st...

your call
Link Posted: 12/13/2005 6:31:57 PM EDT
Either an institution or jail.
Link Posted: 12/13/2005 6:33:03 PM EDT
Has he done this before?

Link Posted: 12/13/2005 6:33:47 PM EDT
He's got to sleep, but he doesn't necessarily need to wake up...
Link Posted: 12/13/2005 6:34:44 PM EDT
Beat the living fuck out of him. or send me a plane ticket and i will.
Link Posted: 12/13/2005 6:35:11 PM EDT
Call the cops. You need to get documentation of this so that, if he assaults you or your mother and you have to hurt him to stop him, you will be seen as an innocent citizen defending himself rather than as one of two agressors engaging in domestic violence.
Link Posted: 12/13/2005 6:35:19 PM EDT

Originally Posted By AbominableNo-Man:
Has he done this before?




He's rushed me before. I can handle myself though. My mom on the other heand . . . She's all Im worried about at this point.
Link Posted: 12/13/2005 6:35:21 PM EDT
Link Posted: 12/13/2005 6:36:15 PM EDT

Originally Posted By slash-5:
Call the cops. Remember, your Mom is stuck with him. Start the document trail now.



I am worried about that. I am not really injured. he'd be out very soon. I think that'd just make him even angrier.
Link Posted: 12/13/2005 6:36:34 PM EDT

Originally Posted By slash-5:
Call the cops. Remember, your Mom is stuck with him. Start the document trail now.



Indeed, brother just committed a domestic violence assault.
Link Posted: 12/13/2005 6:37:12 PM EDT
Buy him some fucking cookies.
Link Posted: 12/13/2005 6:37:21 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Mr-H:

Originally Posted By slash-5:
Call the cops. Remember, your Mom is stuck with him. Start the document trail now.



I am worried about that. I am not really injured. he'd be out very soon. I think that'd just make him even angrier.



He'll get angrier eventually. Anyone who would scream at his mother over cookies is unstable and could be dangerous. For your mother's sake, take the responsibility.
Link Posted: 12/13/2005 6:39:09 PM EDT
Link Posted: 12/13/2005 6:40:58 PM EDT

Originally Posted By RikWriter:

Originally Posted By Mr-H:

Originally Posted By slash-5:
Call the cops. Remember, your Mom is stuck with him. Start the document trail now.



I am worried about that. I am not really injured. he'd be out very soon. I think that'd just make him even angrier.



He'll get angrier eventually. Anyone who would scream at his mother over cookies is unstable and could be dangerous. For your mother's sake, take the responsibility.



+1. If he freaked like that over some cookies just think what would happen if your mom took away his Nintendo. I know he's 30 and has mental problems but does he HAVE to live at home?

I do not mean this to come out the wrong way but - where's the father in all of this?
Link Posted: 12/13/2005 6:41:49 PM EDT

Originally Posted By 82ndAbn:
Start formulating a sound plan for having him permanently removed from the residence. When your mother's safety enters the equation, it's time to act.



Excellent advice. While you're at it make sure he has no access to firearms at your Mom's.
Link Posted: 12/13/2005 6:42:27 PM EDT
Take a swing at my mother and you will never see the light of day again. Especially if my mother is a 60 year old frail lady. You had better damned well hope that you can out run several bullets, who in the fuck treats their mother like that.
Link Posted: 12/13/2005 6:42:52 PM EDT
Your mom is only going to get older and weaker, something to think about. In the long run you'd be doing her a favor to call the cops.
Link Posted: 12/13/2005 6:43:48 PM EDT
Link Posted: 12/13/2005 6:47:00 PM EDT
you are sitting here asking a forum what you should do? your mom could have been hurt? your brother is unstable? talk to him, try to get him some meds, if all else fails, kick his nuts into his esphogus.

my brother is twice my size and there isn't an elephant big enough to pull me off of him if he were to threaten my mother.

call me crazy, but thats just me.
Link Posted: 12/13/2005 6:47:12 PM EDT
DO NOT call the police...yet.

All you will accomplish is hurting your mom if he is jailed.

Do whateveryou can to difuse the situation for now.

Later, talk privately to your mom and tell her that you believe she is in danger from him and his temper. She may deny the danger, but be firm and remind her of his rage over the cookies.
Link Posted: 12/13/2005 6:48:06 PM EDT
send him to california.
Link Posted: 12/13/2005 6:49:44 PM EDT
Sounds like a prescription to prozak is in order. or a beating with sack of potato's in the middle of the night, then a warning..get yer shit and never come back.
Link Posted: 12/13/2005 6:50:14 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/13/2005 6:51:46 PM EDT by AbominableNo-Man]

Originally Posted By Mr-H:

Originally Posted By AbominableNo-Man:
Has he done this before?




He's rushed me before. I can handle myself though. My mom on the other heand . . . She's all Im worried about at this point.



I don't want you to go into the particulars about what kind of condition your brother has, but if he has done this before it goes without saying that he will keep doing it until he hurts you, your mom, or himself.

It sounds like he is dangerously unstable (understatement), and as has been said already, you should call the police. If the other incidents haven't been documented, then start with this one. It's and ugly situation that will probably only get worse, but get a paper trail on him.
Link Posted: 12/13/2005 6:50:37 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/13/2005 6:53:37 PM EDT by sharky30]
I'm reading and it sounds like he's a fucking 10 year old
then I see that he is 30 and lives at home

sorry, but I have to

I'd kick his ass, then kick him out
Link Posted: 12/13/2005 6:51:32 PM EDT

Originally Posted By NMSight:

Originally Posted By 82ndAbn:
Start formulating a sound plan for having him permanently removed from the residence. When your mother's safety enters the equation, it's time to act.



Excellent advice. While you're at it make sure he has no access to firearms at your Mom's.



Might be a good idea for mom to have access to one and knows how to use it.
Link Posted: 12/13/2005 6:52:01 PM EDT
Go back now and give him the beating of a lifetime. Continue to do this every time he even looks cross-eyed at you mother. It won't take long to re-train him.


Originally Posted By Mr-H:
Hey all. I am a little shaken up right now and can't quite think straight now. Here's the story real quick. It's really quite ridiculous.

My mom made an assortment of Christmas candies and cookies. However, there are only a few that my brother likes. My mom gave some of this candy to my sister-in-law Linda. My (half)brother told my mom to tell my sister-in-law to leave the kind he likes behind. Linda must have not gotten the message, because she took it all. Anyway, my brother finds out and raises HELL. I mean he's sitting there screaming at my mom Why the F*** didn't you tell her to leave those! He's just pounding his fists and giving my mom a major guilt trip at the TOP of his lungs.

So anyway, I step in and say Dammit! Quit screaming at mom! They're just some cookies! After a few moment of silence and him kind of shaking, my brother jumps up from his chair and rushes me. He takes a swing at me with his left arm, and I redirect it. At this point I reach in and grap on to his face, pushing and keeping his head back. He took another swing at me that connected on my left shoulder. For some reason, I did not strike
him (mosty because he's my brother and my mom was right there watching in horror - it'd be like a strike at her). At this point my mom jumps in the middle trying to stop us. I tell my brother to back off. And push him away. He keeps coming at me. What's next is still a blurr, but I remember hearing a "crack" and thinking Oh no, mom. She is around 60 and has very weak bones. So I start screaming I think mom's hurt! Stop! I'm sorry - just back off! So finally he does. Some more verbal argument ensues, and then he starts screaming at mom. Meanwhile I am asking her if she is alright. She told me she was, so I just go in the other room and my brother starts arguing with her again, yelling about how she never does anything for him or stands up for him. And that's where we are now.

I don't know what to do.

Some things to consider:

This half-brother has a history of mental illness and instability (he acts like a child pretty much, but he is phyisically very large - I think there is some animosity between him and I as he is 30 and lives at home, whereas I am 19 and I do not) I am certain he has some serious mental problems.

My mom has no means of protecting herself

Sticking around may provoke my half-brother again

Leaving would leave my mom unprotected

Taking her to my house my drive my brother into even more anger, thus, causing problems when she gets back.

This is not a joke and any advice would be greatly appreciated. if this is poorly typed, I appologize.

Link Posted: 12/13/2005 6:52:10 PM EDT
You are a better man then me Mr-H. The way I see it, he deserves a good ass kicking, especially if he can just freak out on your mom over simple cookies.

Both my brothers know, if they ever swing at me, that I will kick the everlasting shit out of them.

Say you were to lay his ass out cold, do you think he would "get it"? Or is he that far gone?
Link Posted: 12/13/2005 6:52:41 PM EDT
You were Battered by your brother not assaulted. Assault is the VERBAL THREAT of violence. Battery is the actual act of causing another physical harm. I am not making lite of this bad situation but they are in fact two seperate offenses.
Link Posted: 12/13/2005 6:53:29 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Tanam:

Originally Posted By NMSight:

Originally Posted By 82ndAbn:
Start formulating a sound plan for having him permanently removed from the residence. When your mother's safety enters the equation, it's time to act.



Excellent advice. While you're at it make sure he has no access to firearms at your Mom's.



Might be a good idea for mom to have access to one and knows how to use it.



All the more reason to get a paper trail going.
Link Posted: 12/13/2005 6:54:09 PM EDT
Link Posted: 12/13/2005 6:55:55 PM EDT
If he is THAT unstable over some d*mn cookies... do not leave your mom alone with him.

Did ya see the screwed up guy the other day that killed his mom, did the deed with her, went to the mall, then came back and killed grandpa?

Yea... if you love your mom, screw your brother and put her safety above her feelings and report this. Sometimes mother does not always know best, because they are blinded by love for their children.
Link Posted: 12/13/2005 6:58:58 PM EDT
If you brother got that pi$$ed over some cookies....he has some problems.


Draw down on him
Link Posted: 12/13/2005 7:02:30 PM EDT
.
Link Posted: 12/13/2005 7:02:40 PM EDT
Link Posted: 12/13/2005 7:05:17 PM EDT
In CA we have what has become jargon and slang, 5150, often used to describe people that act funny or wierd or worse. It's applied when a person may be a danger to himself or others. It sounds like your Mother has for years taken care of a person that needs to be taken care of, and sadly neither one are able to adequately live in that arrangement anymore. I think you need to find and use the Illinois equivalent before he hurts anybody or has an unfortunate encounter with an LEO who arrives unprepared and finds him actively assaulting someone or otherwise acting out. It isn't fair to let the situation deteriorate to the point ANYBODY gets hurt or dead.

*
o
+ WELFARE AND INSTITUTIONS CODE SECTION 5150-5157


5150. When any person, as a result of mental disorder, is a danger
to others, or to himself
or herself, or gravely disabled, a peace
officer, member of the attending staff, as defined by regulation, of
an evaluation facility designated by the county, designated members
of a mobile crisis team provided by Section 5651.7, or other
professional person designated by the county may, upon probable
cause, take, or cause to be taken, the person into custody and place
him or her in a facility designated by the county and approved by the
State Department of Mental Health as a facility for 72-hour
treatment and evaluation.

Such facility shall require an application in writing stating the
circumstances under which the person's condition was called to the
attention of the officer, member of the attending staff, or
professional person, and stating that the officer, member of the
attending staff, or professional person has probable cause to believe
that the person is, as a result of mental disorder, a danger to
others, or to himself or herself, or gravely disabled. If the
probable cause is based on the statement of a person other than the
officer, member of the attending staff, or professional person, such
person shall be liable in a civil action for intentionally giving a
statement which he or she knows to be false.



5150.05. (a) When determining if probable cause exists to take a
person into custody, or cause a person to be taken into custody,
pursuant to Section 5150, any person who is authorized to take that
person, or cause that person to be taken, into custody pursuant to
that section shall consider available relevant information about the
historical course of the person's mental disorder if the authorized
person determines that the information has a reasonable bearing on
the determination as to whether the person is a danger to others, or
to himself or herself, or is gravely disabled as a result of the
mental disorder.
(b) For purposes of this section, "information about the
historical course of the person's mental disorder" includes evidence
presented by the person who has provided or is providing mental
health or related support services to the person subject to a
determination described in subdivision (a), evidence presented by one
or more members of the family of that person, and evidence presented
by the person subject to a determination described in subdivision
(a) or anyone designated by that person.
(c) If the probable cause in subdivision (a) is based on the
statement of a person other than the one authorized to take the
person into custody pursuant to Section 5150, a member of the
attending staff, or a professional person, the person making the
statement shall be liable in a civil action for intentionally giving
any statement that he or she knows to be false.
(d) This section shall not be applied to limit the application of
Section 5328.


5150.1. No peace officer seeking to transport, or having
transported, a person to a designated facility for assessment under
Section 5150, shall be instructed by mental health personnel to take
the person to, or keep the person at, a jail solely because of the
unavailability of an acute bed, nor shall the peace officer be
forbidden to transport the person directly to the designated
facility. No mental health employee from any county, state, city, or
any private agency providing Short-Doyle psychiatric emergency
services shall interfere with a peace officer performing duties under
Section 5150 by preventing the peace officer from entering a
designated facility with the person to be assessed, nor shall any
employee of such an agency require the peace officer to remove the
person without assessment as a condition of allowing the peace
officer to depart.
"Peace officer" for the purposes of this section also means a
jailer seeking to transport or transporting a person in custody to a
designated facility for assessment consistent with Section 4011.6 or
4011.8 of the Penal Code and Section 5150.


5150.2. In each county whenever a peace officer has transported a
person to a designated facility for assessment under Section 5150,
that officer shall be detained no longer than the time necessary to
complete documentation of the factual basis of the detention under
Section 5150 and a safe and orderly transfer of physical custody of
the person. The documentation shall include detailed information
regarding the factual circumstances and observations constituting
probable cause for the peace officer to believe that the individual
required psychiatric evaluation under the standards of Section 5105.

Each county shall establish disposition procedures and guidelines
with local law enforcement agencies as necessary to relate to persons
not admitted for evaluation and treatment and who decline
alternative mental health services and to relate to the safe and
orderly transfer of physical custody of persons under Section 5150,
including those who have a criminal detention pending.



5150.3. Whenever any person presented for evaluation at a facility
designated under Section 5150 is found to be in need of mental health
services, but is not admitted to the facility, all available
alternative services provided for pursuant to Section 5151 shall be
offered as determined by the county mental health director.

5150.4. "Assessment" for the purposes of this article, means the
determination of whether a person shall be evaluated and treated
pursuant to Section 5150.


Denial at this point, or in the future, could be fatal to somebody. Suck it up get your Mother or your brother out of the situation.

Ma's Step-Grandad remarried to a nice lady who had a son who steadily went from living at home to a assisting home, to institutionalization in a few more steps, but as he bacame older and stronger he became more dangerous to family and his Mother, who agonized all along the way. It took a negative interaction with the police before sh made the tough decision. Had a neighbor who had sustained a brain injury, and all the local PD knew him, and were able to help most of the time. He lived with his so only, who was a schoolmate. He eventually started fires at his house. His son was about 20 and emancipated and had to make the decision to institutionalize him.

This is a hard decision, but you need to take the right road here. It isn't ridiculous. But you need to get some assistance from some outside experts. You're in a classic frog in boiling water. It's been getting hotter and hotter and you may be too close to see it.

Good luck and prayers for all.
Link Posted: 12/13/2005 7:13:18 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Tanam:

Originally Posted By NMSight:

Originally Posted By 82ndAbn:
Start formulating a sound plan for having him permanently removed from the residence. When your mother's safety enters the equation, it's time to act.



Excellent advice. While you're at it make sure he has no access to firearms at your Mom's.



Might be a good idea for mom to have access to one and knows how to use it.



Bad idea. He's 30 and she still lets him live at home. Do you honestly think she could shoot him? I don't. I don't think any sane mother could shoot her son. I know my mom couldn't. Giving her a gun just puts a 60 year old woman between him and a gun.
Link Posted: 12/13/2005 7:22:23 PM EDT
Mom needs to move in with YOU. Your brother needs a visit from the local police and mental health professionals.
Link Posted: 12/13/2005 7:25:18 PM EDT

Originally Posted By The_Beer_Slayer:
the gun idea for mom might not be the best idea here. i know i am gonna take some heat for this post but hear me out.

only you know if your mother has the mental mindset and the training to actually use a hadgun, if god forbid it came to that.

If you doubt for a second that she could not use it in her defense i would personally look to another option like perhaps a good pepperspray or taser. he has already displayed an extreame tendancy for violence and irrational thought. if she hesitates and he ends up with the gun it could be a VERY bad situation for all of you.



+1 on the combat mindset. I doubt your mom has the capacity to shoot her own son and quite likely he would disarm her and, due to his obvious deminished mental state, could turn it on her. My vote would be a non-lethal solution --- CS/pepper spray and a cell phone.
Link Posted: 12/13/2005 7:29:03 PM EDT
I think a wedgie is in order, followed by a noogie and possibly a wet willy.
Link Posted: 12/13/2005 7:29:28 PM EDT
Erm...if my brother did that to my mom, first off, if my dad didn't beat the shit out of him, I would.

Then, either he or I would continue to beat the shit out of him until he learned.

This might take years.



Look, keep it in the family, but be damn well prepared to bring the thunder when necessary.

Just my opinion...



Link Posted: 12/13/2005 7:35:40 PM EDT
I think you need to bake him some cookies.
Link Posted: 12/13/2005 7:38:03 PM EDT
Uh, call the cops....now.
Link Posted: 12/13/2005 7:40:15 PM EDT
:(

sucks to have a family member not capable of sound decision... hopefully you can get him some pills or help.
Link Posted: 12/13/2005 7:43:33 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/13/2005 7:46:44 PM EDT by MilTrainInstructor]
Friends and family will take you down the hardest. Get your mom out of there soonest. She does not think that her "baby" will hurt her. If he went off like that over cookies it will get worse. This is just like the wife that will not turn her hubby in for beating her. "He really loves me.""He doesn't mean it." sound faimilar? Get her away now or you might be taking her to the E.R. or worse the cornorer will be comming. He sounds like a shit that needs the shit beat out of him. This just pisses me off and I can't beleive that you left her there. You are just as guillity if anything happens to her. Go get her now.

ETA; If I sounded harsh, sorry, but I have seen to many bad things happen when they should not have. Go get your mom.
Link Posted: 12/13/2005 7:45:01 PM EDT
OK, guys. Sorry that I just took off. My brother Jim showed up (yes, husband of the aforementioned in-law) to drop off my weight bench, knowing nothing of the situation. The brother that attacked me is up in his room (it's actually my room, I moved out when he moved back in) and my mom is OK. I went on drive with Jim and we discussed a few things. I am pretty calm now.

Now that I am thinking straight, I can give a better briefing of the situation. Thinking back on some of the things my violent brother (we'll call him "J") said during all this (and past rampages),I realize wasn't about the cookies at all. J seems to have an extremely low self esteem and a serious inferiority complex. He cannot stand being disrespected or wronged in anyway, yet, at the same time has hardly any guts to speak for himself (this is why he asked my mom to tell Linda to leave the cookies in the first place). The only difference between him and a dictator (which is what he is on a small scale) is his amount of power. All through the spute about the cookies, he was screaming at my mom things to the effect of You give her a call! You call Linda and have her bring that stuff over! Why would she take that stuff from ME?! He basically uses my mom like a marionette. And if she doesn't do what she wants, he basically raises heck and threatens to kill himself. My mom, in her motherly-love, will do anything to keep him from harming himself. So, in short, we have a tyrannt who is running this house via emotional manipulation and terrorism.

Some other notes:
1. I do not have any firearms at this house. I keep all of my weapons at my house.

2.Calling the cops would only super-charge J's anger. He would probably be realeased, come home and possible do bodily harm to my mom. (she is frail and would not be able to whithstand any attack from him)

3.My mom refuses to leave the house. Even if she did come to my place, J would come over to my house, raise hell because his mouthpiece (mom) isn't there for him. He would probably threaten to kill himself if my mom wouldn't come home - and of course that brings us back to mom giving in due to her "motherly love."

4. My mom is not an idiot, she honestly just loves her kids and would sooner die than see any harm come to any of us.


This is a lose-lose situation, so any solution will have to be a "lesser evil". Thanks for all the replies so far guys. If you can think of anything more, I am open to it. I am still on page 1, so I'll go look over the other replies now.

Link Posted: 12/13/2005 7:49:51 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Gary_P:
you are sitting here asking a forum what you should do? your mom could have been hurt? your brother is unstable? talk to him, try to get him some meds, if all else fails, kick his nuts into his esphogus.

my brother is twice my size and there isn't an elephant big enough to pull me off of him if he were to threaten my mother.

call me crazy, but thats just me.



My mom is fine. Believe me, if he ever actually did lay a hand on my mom, I would not be pulling punches.

There is no reasoning with this man. He thinks he's perfectly normal, so he would not agree to meds. Short of involuntary treatment, I don't know how he could be helped.

Link Posted: 12/13/2005 7:50:50 PM EDT
once again, call the cops. it's domestic violence. get a restraining order.
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