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9/22/2017 12:11:25 AM
Posted: 9/24/2005 9:19:50 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/24/2005 9:20:44 PM EDT by Ghostface]
Here is the deal, I work for a sheriff's department and we have a contract. Our contract says if we work over 80 hrs in a two week period anything over 80 hrs. will be paid at time and a half. There is nothing about compt time in the contract.Our contract also says the Sheriff reserves the right to adjust our work schedules and determine our hours of work (meaning when our shifts start and end). We are out of overtime money and now the bosses are discussing comp time. I heard the operations supervisor said any comp time will be hour for hour and not at time and a half. Is this legal? I have checked into some of the FSLA laws but I don't see any thing reference to compt time being straight time. Can some one who knows chime in? TIA
Link Posted: 9/24/2005 9:36:53 PM EDT
First FLSA is very complicated. We work 6-3 rotating 8 hour shifts. So the number of days we work per 28 days isn't consistent. FLSA has certain work hours over 28 day period requirements for some parts of it to kick in.

Next, NO ONE should take comp time. If your contract says 1.5 times pay per OT unit worked. There is NO WAY I would work OT for 1-1 on comp time.

If you have that much OT, how are you going to use that comp time anyway?

We can choose comp or money when we work OT, both earned at 1.5 time the normal rate. We can only accumulate so much comp per year, like 160 hours. That also gets paid down to 16 hours on the last check of the year.

You need an atty. to look at the contract, IN Labor Law, FSLA, then look at what your organization is proposing. I suspect that 1-1 comp earning won't fly.
Link Posted: 9/24/2005 10:07:17 PM EDT
You need an atty. to look at the contract, IN Labor Law, FSLA, then look at what your organization is proposing. I suspect that 1-1 comp earning won't fly.



Yeah...I think that is going to happen. I just talked with one of the lower supervisors and he said they are not going to let us get more than a day(10 hrs) in two pay periods built up for right now. Once "they" see how it goes then "they" may increase it later.
Link Posted: 9/24/2005 10:10:09 PM EDT
It amazes me that people who intrust their lives in LEO's hands, give up their ability to defend themselves and then treat those who put their life on the line for us like crap.

I don't know the answer to your question. I do know when I was a Deputy we had it the same way.

Best wishes, Patty
Link Posted: 9/24/2005 10:19:11 PM EDT
What's really the nutt kicker is the operations superviser is in the union and he made the comment that it's going to be straight time (comp time). When our contract is up (2 yrs.) I'll see to it that no one higher than a Lt. will be in. I tried the last time but our president was a Lt. trying to get double bars, which he did get not too long ago did not want to exclude anyone.
Link Posted: 9/24/2005 10:24:03 PM EDT
Management, Unfortunately we are out of money to pay for the overtime as required by contract...........

Avg worker bee, Well we are out of overtime.............................
Link Posted: 9/24/2005 10:30:40 PM EDT
You have a union contract, they have to pay in accordance with the contract. If the contract is mute, then there should be a written policy. If there is no pre-existing contract verbiage, policy, then the Labor Code comes in. I really doubt that between the 3 of those nothing addresses the situation.

Your Union Rep should be able to answer.
Link Posted: 9/24/2005 10:37:10 PM EDT
Here is how they are going to get around giving us time and a half for comp time. The Sheriff (via supervisors)reserves the right to adjust our schedules at will. So say I work four hours over on Wed. then come Thurs. I'm going home four hours early. I'm going to wait untill they come out with a directive about comp time and take it from there.
Link Posted: 9/24/2005 10:49:52 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Ghostface:
Here is how they are going to get around giving us time and a half for comp time. The Sheriff (via supervisors)reserves the right to adjust our schedules at will. So say I work four hours over on Wed. then come Thurs. I'm going home four hours early. I'm going to wait untill they come out with a directive about comp time and take it from there.



We have a paragrapgh that says work shedules can not be adjusted to avoid paying OT. It also says work outside the regualry scheduled work hours will be compensated at the OT rate.

We also get to choose when we want to take copmp time off, just like vaction, or holiday days.
Link Posted: 9/25/2005 6:04:53 AM EDT
I would bet that comp time, even at time and a half, is specifically prohibited by law. It is in California. Call the local office of the state labor board. They can probably give you an answer in about two minutes. You should also be protected by law from any retaliatory action if you make a complaint to the labor board.

BTW, maybe I am odd but it just seems to me that the Sheriff ought to follow the laws -- all of them.
Link Posted: 9/25/2005 6:20:33 AM EDT
Link Posted: 9/25/2005 6:31:30 AM EDT
If the contracts are mute,then State and Federal labor law takes effect.Comp time cannot take the place of overtime compensation,unless it is replaced at the same rate of exchange.
Link Posted: 9/25/2005 6:35:51 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/25/2005 6:51:09 AM EDT by AirCommando]
I don't think comp time is against any labor law. I work for Texas Tech University, and we have a comp time clause. I am a state employee, so I don't think the State of Texas would do anything against the law. If we see that by Friday we would work more than 40 hours if we put in 8 hours on Friday, we can go home at the time we reach 40 hours. If we do work over 40 hours for the week, then the overtime hours accrue at time and a half, for time off, not pay.
ETA: This is for salaried employees, hourly employees will get paid at time and a half, but they usually will go home. State budget has been cut drastically.
Link Posted: 9/25/2005 7:04:12 AM EDT

Originally Posted By AirCommando:
I don't think comp time is against any labor law. I work for Texas Tech University, and we have a comp time clause. I am a state employee, so I don't think the State of Texas would do anything against the law. If we see that by Friday we would work more than 40 hours if we put in 8 hours on Friday, we can go home at the time we reach 40 hours. If we do work over 40 hours for the week, then the overtime hours accrue at time and a half, for time off, not pay.
ETA: This is for salaried employees, hourly employees will get paid at time and a half, but they usually will go home. State budget has been cut drastically.



Actually, I think we both stand corrected. IIRC, it was illegal in California at one time because we had to research it for a company I worked for. But I found this on the net.


A close cousin of the overtime compensation issue is the notion of compensatory, or "comp," time. Strange but true, so called "comp" time is permitted under California law, but at present not permitted under federal law. California Labor Code § 204.3 provides that an employee may be given "comp time" either pursuant to a written agreement or a negotiated collective bargaining agreement. Under California law, "comp time" may be accrued up to a maximum of 240 hours and may be used at the employee's request rather than receiving overtime compensation. Eligible employees under California law are those regularly scheduled to work at least forty (40) hours in a week.

Importantly, however, federal law does not presently provide an exception allowing an employer to offer "comp time" in lieu of overtime pay. Legislation presently before Congress, HR 1119 or the "Family Time Flexibility Act," may change federal law to permit "comp time," up to a maximum of 160 hours. Employers should keep a close eye on this federal legislation, but will need to recognize that even if passed into law, the federal provision will differ in important ways from California law and, as with all wage and hour laws, the employer will be obligated to follow the provision giving the greatest rights to the employee.



library.findlaw.com/2003/Oct/17/133094.html

and this:


Can a company insist that its non-exempt employees take paid time off rather than cash for working overtime?
Generally (and surprisingly), 'comp time' (compensatory time off given instead of overtime pay) is ILLEGAL under federal law. Under federal law, if you work more than 40 hours in a work week, you must be PAID for your overtime at time-and-a-half. This applies to all non-exempt employees in all states. Employers may give time off during the same week you work extra hours (e.g., work 10 on Monday, work only 6 on Tuesday), but as soon as you cross the 'more than 40 hours in a week' threshold, you're entitled to overtime pay. Comp time is permitted within a single pay period (e.g., you might be able to take time off next week if you work overtime this week), but if it's not in the same week, the comp time must be given at time-and-a-half (e.g., 1.5 hours of time off for every hour of overtime worked).




employment-law.freeadvice.com/non_exempt_employee.htm
Link Posted: 9/25/2005 8:29:36 AM EDT

Originally Posted By wolfman97:

Originally Posted By AirCommando:
I don't think comp time is against any labor law. I work for Texas Tech University, and we have a comp time clause. I am a state employee, so I don't think the State of Texas would do anything against the law. If we see that by Friday we would work more than 40 hours if we put in 8 hours on Friday, we can go home at the time we reach 40 hours. If we do work over 40 hours for the week, then the overtime hours accrue at time and a half, for time off, not pay.
ETA: This is for salaried employees, hourly employees will get paid at time and a half, but they usually will go home. State budget has been cut drastically.




and this:

Can a company insist that its non-exempt employees take paid time off rather than cash for working overtime?
Generally (and surprisingly), 'comp time' (compensatory time off given instead of overtime pay) is ILLEGAL under federal law. Under federal law, if you work more than 40 hours in a work week, you must be PAID for your overtime at time-and-a-half. This applies to all non-exempt employees in all states. Employers may give time off during the same week you work extra hours (e.g., work 10 on Monday, work only 6 on Tuesday), but as soon as you cross the 'more than 40 hours in a week' threshold, you're entitled to overtime pay. Comp time is permitted within a single pay period (e.g., you might be able to take time off next week if you work overtime this week), but if it's not in the same week, the comp time must be given at time-and-a-half (e.g., 1.5 hours of time off for every hour of overtime worked).




That's what I said.
Link Posted: 9/25/2005 9:05:24 AM EDT

Originally Posted By AirCommando:

Originally Posted By wolfman97:

Originally Posted By AirCommando:
I don't think comp time is against any labor law. I work for Texas Tech University, and we have a comp time clause. I am a state employee, so I don't think the State of Texas would do anything against the law. If we see that by Friday we would work more than 40 hours if we put in 8 hours on Friday, we can go home at the time we reach 40 hours. If we do work over 40 hours for the week, then the overtime hours accrue at time and a half, for time off, not pay.
ETA: This is for salaried employees, hourly employees will get paid at time and a half, but they usually will go home. State budget has been cut drastically.




and this:

Can a company insist that its non-exempt employees take paid time off rather than cash for working overtime?
Generally (and surprisingly), 'comp time' (compensatory time off given instead of overtime pay) is ILLEGAL under federal law. Under federal law, if you work more than 40 hours in a work week, you must be PAID for your overtime at time-and-a-half. This applies to all non-exempt employees in all states. Employers may give time off during the same week you work extra hours (e.g., work 10 on Monday, work only 6 on Tuesday), but as soon as you cross the 'more than 40 hours in a week' threshold, you're entitled to overtime pay. Comp time is permitted within a single pay period (e.g., you might be able to take time off next week if you work overtime this week), but if it's not in the same week, the comp time must be given at time-and-a-half (e.g., 1.5 hours of time off for every hour of overtime worked).




That's what I said.



Seems to me you said "I don't think comp time is against any labor law." It is against Federal law.
Link Posted: 9/25/2005 9:16:53 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/25/2005 9:22:59 AM EDT by Shooter505]
Most states have a statue that states that the Deputies work at the pleasure of the Sheriff. This gives the Sheriff Carte Blanche basically in dealing with deputies work practices. This is a very old law and it was put in place for some very good and some very bad reasons. Irregardless this law allows the Sheriff to practice some very piss poor labor practices that kill moral. You need to check with your union or an attorney that specializes in labor law. Most of the federal labor laws do not apply to public service employees whose job effects public safety, kind of reminds you of the Fireman Rule law. www.afscme.org/about/resolute/1996/r32-034.htm
Link Posted: 9/25/2005 9:41:40 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/25/2005 9:43:29 AM EDT by 3rdpig]
A company I worked at years ago tried the Comp Time boondoggle and it came back to bite them on the ass really hard. For 6 or 8 months we were so busy that we were working 7 days a week and 10 - 12 hour days. It was supposed to be 1.5 or 2.0 overtime (weekdays vs. weekends) but they decided that they couldn't afford it and would give us 1:1 comp time instead. By the time we slowed down to normal I had 9 weeks of comp time at 40 hours a week saved up and a couple guys had more than that. When the bosses had a chance to look at that they freaked and told us that we couldn't take more than 2 extra weeks of vacation time a year. This is when the someone reported it to the state and they were told to pay us the overtime or let us take the comp time, not at a 1:1 basis but at the correct 1.5 or 2.0 amounts. At first they refused to and then someone called a lawyer and got a lawsuit started. When the dust settled they paid the whole thing as double time, lost most of their employees and some of their best customers wouldn't do business with them anymore. They went from having 50 employees before this disaster to having less than 10 when it was all over. They also got a hefty fine from the state. If they just had have been honest all that extra work would have doubled their size but instead it damn near put them out of business because they got greedy and wanted to cheat the employees.
Link Posted: 9/25/2005 10:12:17 AM EDT
Sigh.

I keep posting comments on these situations.

Contact the local office of the US Department of Labor's Wage and Hour Division. THEY (and NO ONE ELSE) enforce the wage and hour provisions of the Fair Labor Standards Act (and the Service Contract Act and the Davis-Bacon Act).

The ONLY employers that can utilize "compensatory time" are Federal, State and local government agencies . Like, for instance, a Sheriff's Department. For ANY other employer, the use of compensatory time is ILLEGAL, no matter if the employees are "okay" with it.

However, you also have a CBA (collective bargaining agreement), which probably takes precedence over the ability of a government agency to use compensatory time.
Link Posted: 9/25/2005 2:31:06 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/25/2005 2:34:47 PM EDT by Ghostface]

Originally Posted By Apatriot:
If the contracts are mute,then State and Federal labor law takes effect.Comp time cannot take the place of overtime compensation,unless it is replaced at the same rate of exchange.



Is this a FSLA law or your state law? Can you point me where to find this in writing? TIA



Edited to add I will do this ODA_564! Thanks for all of your help guys!
Link Posted: 9/25/2005 6:20:55 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Ghostface:
Here is how they are going to get around giving us time and a half for comp time. The Sheriff (via supervisors)reserves the right to adjust our schedules at will. So say I work four hours over on Wed. then come Thurs. I'm going home four hours early. I'm going to wait untill they come out with a directive about comp time and take it from there.



And they are correct. That is not comp time, it's an adjusted work schedule.
As long as you are working 80 hours or less every two weeks no overtime or comp time comes into play. The boss can make you work 52 hours straight and give you time off later. And it's perfectly within the contract as long as he keeps it below 80 hrs / 2 weeks. If you work 4 hours over (12 hours) and then 4 hours later, it still adds up to only 16 hours or 8 hrs per day.
Now, if Bossman makes you work say 90 hours / 2 weeks and says that he'll give you the 10 overtime hours to take off later then that is comp time.

Fritz
Link Posted: 9/25/2005 8:24:49 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/25/2005 8:26:59 PM EDT by ODA_564]
fritizthecat

You are ALMOST right.

Labor law (the Federal Fair Labor Standards Act) is based on 40-hour workweeks, not a 80-hour biweekly pay period. State laws follow that.

Ghostface is in Indiana. Indiana Department of Labor - Wage and Hour

Their FAQ says:


Is my employer required to pay minimum wage or overtime?

If your employer is subject to the federal Fair Labor Standards Act (FLSA), he/she is required to pay a minimum wage of $5.15 per hour and overtime of time and a half for any hours worked over forty during the workweek. Employers are subject to FLSA, if the enterprise has employees engaged in interstate commerce or in the production of goods for interstate commerce and generates annual gross volume of sales more than $500,000. Schools, hospitals and health care facilities, and public agencies are subject to FLSA. If you have questions about whether your employer is subject to FLSA, please contact the U.S. Department of Labor, Wage & Hour Division in Indianapolis at (317) 226-6801, or in South Bend at (219) 236-8331.

If your employer is not subject to FLSA, he/she is required to pay state minimum wage. Currently, the minimum wage in Indiana is $5.15 per hour. Additionally, as of July 1, 1998, Indiana employers not subject to the FLSA (i.e. small businesses) must pay overtime of time and a half for any hours worked over forty during the workweek.



A Sheriff's Department is a public agency and subject to the FLSA.
Link Posted: 9/25/2005 8:33:14 PM EDT
ODA_564 just got it for you before i could.
Link Posted: 9/26/2005 4:30:28 AM EDT
And I should point out that Indiana, like most every state, has state laws that mirror the Federal FLSA but give the state the ability to deviate from the FLSA for non-FLSA subject employers (different minimum wage, etc.). However, they don't.

California does deviate - the other way. California's labor code is far more restrictive than the Federal FLSA. In California, if you work more than 8-hours a day, regardless of the number of hours you work in the work week, its overtime. UNLESS the workforce votes (by secret ballot and it takes 75% of them voting yes) to work an alternate work schedule. Then you can work up to 10-hours a day, not to exceed 40-hours per week. Then it gets really complicated with time over 10-hours per day being 1.5 overtime, then over 40-hours per week being something else, then OT on the weekend...
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