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Posted: 6/29/2012 6:03:59 AM EDT
9 years ago my small business was struggling post 9/11. I came to a choice of bankruptcy or selling off everything and working to pay it off. It took 7 years but I sold off everything and paid off over $1M in debt. Today as I look at what is happenening with the economy and obamacare I am convinced, I should have filed bankruptcy. It would already by now be over, I would have protected my house and come out $400K to the better.  That mistake was costly.
Link Posted: 6/29/2012 6:04:32 AM EDT
[#1]
Sorry dude.  Well, learn and live.
Link Posted: 6/29/2012 6:04:55 AM EDT
[#2]
Yep.  You lose.
Link Posted: 6/29/2012 6:04:59 AM EDT
[#3]
Link Posted: 6/29/2012 6:05:32 AM EDT
[#4]
At least you live in a free country.

Oh, wait...
Link Posted: 6/29/2012 6:09:22 AM EDT
[#5]
Donald Trump didn't get where he was by doing the honorable thing



Really man, you made a decision. It's over. Don't live in the past. You'll be back up again in no time





Speed


 
Link Posted: 6/29/2012 6:09:49 AM EDT
[#6]
Under the old bankruptcy rules too.  You would have walked away Scot free
Link Posted: 6/29/2012 6:10:05 AM EDT
[#7]
Quoted:
9 years ago my small business was struggling post 9/11. I came to a choice of bankruptcy or selling off everything and working to pay it off. It took 7 years but I sold off everything and paid off over $1M in debt. Today as I look at what is happenening with the economy and obamacare I am convinced, I should have filed bankruptcy. It would already by now be over, I would have protected my house and come out $400K to the better.  That mistake was costly.


This is why you consult with a good attorney and a good CPA.

Then you follow their advice.
Link Posted: 6/29/2012 6:12:05 AM EDT
[#8]
what type of business?
Link Posted: 6/29/2012 6:12:53 AM EDT
[#9]
Quoted:
You did the honorable thing.  


Bad advice.

Never, Ever let you feelings get in the way of making a wise financial decision.
Link Posted: 6/29/2012 6:13:50 AM EDT
[#10]
So your self respect is worth 400K?

You paid off your debt, therefore, you could pay off what you were loaned. Paying it off isn't always easy but if you can do it, then you are the better man for choosing that route instead of the welcher way.

I understand there are times when one has to declare, but I'd bet it's really a far lower number then those who do because it's the easy way out and they could care less if someone else goes under because you basically stole their money and didn't want to repay it because it may involve sacrifice on the borrowers part.

It took my Dad 20 years to pay off my Moms cancer treatment debt, I respect the hell out of him for it.

Link Posted: 6/29/2012 6:14:09 AM EDT
[#11]



Quoted:


You did the honorable thing.  
meaning that bankruptcy is less than honorable,there is a lot of well respected corporations and business men
who are less than honorable,I guess we could go back to the debtors prisons of old,that is an environment that

really makes one want to risk their capital





 
Link Posted: 6/29/2012 6:20:24 AM EDT
[#12]
WIth all due respect to those who choose the bankrputcy route, I agree with beekeeper.  I too have (and still do) struggled to make ends meet.  We just completed an accountants review for the 1st 5 months of 2012 for our surety.  We did just shy of 1M in revenue at a 34.3% profit.  I have taken exactly 15K in distributions.  Just enough to pay my personal bills.  The rest is staying as working capital or paying of company debt.  I signed the papers, I'll pay the debt.  It's that simple.

It would have been much easier to throw in the towel (and much more lucrative).
Link Posted: 6/29/2012 6:20:44 AM EDT
[#13]

Even Abraham Lincoln declared bankruptcy (TWICE!), nothing dishonorable about it.

Quoted:

Quoted:
You did the honorable thing.  
meaning that bankruptcy is less than honorable,there is a lot of well respected corporations and business men
who are less than honorable,I guess we could go back to the debtors prisons of old,that is an environment that
really makes one want to risk their capital

 


Link Posted: 6/29/2012 6:22:25 AM EDT
[#14]
I think you did the right and honorable thing. Too many people want to take the easy way out when they get in a financial bind. You made the best decision with the information you had seven years ago and you will never know how things would have turned out if you made a different decision.
Link Posted: 6/29/2012 6:23:44 AM EDT
[#15]
I'm sure it made sense to do it that way at the time.  Doesn't make much sense to sit around blaming yourself or anyone else for that matter.  We just gotta keep swimming.
 
Link Posted: 6/29/2012 6:25:03 AM EDT
[#16]
Link Posted: 6/29/2012 6:25:44 AM EDT
[#17]
You see what doing the right thing gets you?
 
Link Posted: 6/29/2012 6:26:35 AM EDT
[#18]
Link Posted: 6/29/2012 6:28:22 AM EDT
[#19]
Quoted:
Even Abraham Lincoln declared bankruptcy (TWICE!), nothing dishonorable about it.


I'd just as soon not take moral lessons from a morally bankrupt mass murderer so wrapped up in his own power mad insanity that he plunged an entire continent into war to feed his own ego.
Link Posted: 6/29/2012 6:28:26 AM EDT
[#20]
Quoted:
Quoted:

Quoted:
You did the honorable thing.  
meaning that bankruptcy is less than honorable,there is a lot of well respected corporations and business men
who are less than honorable,I guess we could go back to the debtors prisons of old,that is an environment that
really makes one want to risk their capital

 


This man worked his way out of debt and you think it would have been "honorable" to stiff others on debt he chose to incur?  No wonder the country has problems.  

"We have no government armed with power capable of contending with human passions unbridled by morality and religion . . . Our Constitution was made only for a moral and religious people. It is wholly inadequate to the government of any other." John Adams



Please, it is a cost of doing business and factored into every loan and piece of credit you take out.

The businesses you take credit from are charging you what they can, because they assume you will screw them over - they expect no "honor"
Link Posted: 6/29/2012 6:28:32 AM EDT
[#21]
Yes, you should have.


There is very little honor in business. You do what you need to do to make sales and be successful, not be 'honorable'.
Link Posted: 6/29/2012 6:30:26 AM EDT
[#22]
Quoted:
You did the honorable thing.  


doing the honorable thing is for suckers these days, unfortunately.

Link Posted: 6/29/2012 6:34:17 AM EDT
[#23]
Quoted:

Even Abraham Lincoln declared bankruptcy (TWICE!), nothing dishonorable about it.

 
[/div]



Yeah, but he was a politician and used to spending other people's money.


You did the right thing.  You paid your debts.  I admire your sense of honor.  If you are ever near Rochester, NY, the drinks are on me.  That way you can owe me one if it will make you feel any better.
Link Posted: 6/29/2012 6:34:21 AM EDT
[#24]



Quoted:



Quoted:

Even Abraham Lincoln declared bankruptcy (TWICE!), nothing dishonorable about it.




I'd just as soon not take moral lessons from a morally bankrupt mass murderer so wrapped up in his own power mad insanity that he plunged an entire continent into war to feed his own ego.
He sure gave them vampires all sorts of Hell, though, didn't he?





 
Link Posted: 6/29/2012 6:36:56 AM EDT
[#25]
Quoted:
Quoted:
You did the honorable thing.  


Bad advice.

Never, Ever let you feelings get in the way of making a wise financial decision.



....if, like some here, your dignity, integrity, and self respect can be bought and paid for with paper fiat currency that is eaten by moths and rots in the ground.

I can't believe over half the people in this thread think money is the most important thing in life.  Well you can't take it with you gents.
Link Posted: 6/29/2012 6:39:07 AM EDT
[#26]
Quoted:

Quoted:
Quoted:
Even Abraham Lincoln declared bankruptcy (TWICE!), nothing dishonorable about it.


I'd just as soon not take moral lessons from a morally bankrupt mass murderer so wrapped up in his own power mad insanity that he plunged an entire continent into war to feed his own ego.
He sure gave them vampires all sorts of Hell, though, didn't he?

 


I'm waiting for it to come to Netflix. But it does look interesting––would have preferred Pride and Prejudice and Zombies though.
Link Posted: 6/29/2012 6:39:44 AM EDT
[#27]
I figured you got somebody pregnant from the title....    
Link Posted: 6/29/2012 6:49:24 AM EDT
[#28]
If bankruptcy could help me with my student loans I would have filed years ago. I'll find some other way to be honorable.
 
Link Posted: 6/29/2012 6:49:53 AM EDT
[#29]
It's a slippery slope to start tying financial cost to your personal morality.
Link Posted: 6/29/2012 6:51:26 AM EDT
[#30]
Link Posted: 6/29/2012 6:51:27 AM EDT
[#31]
Don't worry.  You aren't alone.

Learned a lesson about throwing good money after bad.

Link Posted: 6/29/2012 6:54:29 AM EDT
[#32]
Quoted:
You did the honorable thing.  


There is no honor among thieves and looters
Link Posted: 6/29/2012 6:55:27 AM EDT
[#33]
Link Posted: 6/29/2012 6:56:48 AM EDT
[#34]
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
You did the honorable thing.  
o

Bad advice.

Never, Ever let you feelings get in the way of making a wise financial decision.



....if, like some here, your dignity, integrity, and self respect can be bought and paid for with paper fiat currency that is eaten by moths and rots in the ground.

I can't believe over half the people in this thread think money is the most important thing in life.  Well you can't take it with you gents.


You ever thought that if op had money he would be able to spend more time with kid family and provide kids and grandkids with a better opportunity in life.

Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile
Link Posted: 6/29/2012 6:58:27 AM EDT
[#35]
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
You did the honorable thing.  


There is no honor among thieves and looters


That's why it's best to avoid them.  


How do you avoid the federal government?
Link Posted: 6/29/2012 6:59:32 AM EDT
[#36]
you had a million bucks go through your fingers in ten years so be very proud most people today won't hit that number for another 50 years.

You now have a better business sense than most graduating with a MBA.

Now take your story under the protection of a LLC / Inc get an investor for a new business.

I paid off 60k in debt for my first business and by having integrity a investor placed 250k into my next business venture.

always go forward.
Link Posted: 6/29/2012 7:00:19 AM EDT
[#37]
Quoted:
WIth all due respect to those who choose the bankrputcy route, I agree with beekeeper.  I too have (and still do) struggled to make ends meet.  We just completed an accountants review for the 1st 5 months of 2012 for our surety.  We did just shy of 1M in revenue at a 34.3% profit.  I have taken exactly 15K in distributions.  Just enough to pay my personal bills.  The rest is staying as working capital or paying of company debt.  I signed the papers, I'll pay the debt.  It's that simple.

It would have been much easier to throw in the towel (and much more lucrative).


kudos to you and the OP

you are the real America
Link Posted: 6/29/2012 7:00:25 AM EDT
[#38]
Quoted:
It's a slippery slope to start tying financial cost to your personal morality.


Really? How many people are truly proud of declaring BK and walking away from debt they accumulated?
Link Posted: 6/29/2012 7:03:19 AM EDT
[#39]
Quoted:
Quoted:
It's a slippery slope to start tying financial cost to your personal morality.


Really? How many people are truly proud of declaring BK and walking away from debt they accumulated?


People and businesses aren't the same.
Link Posted: 6/29/2012 7:03:59 AM EDT
[#40]

To clarify, I did not mean to come off as whiny. It was my decision, I made it and stick by it. I am acknowledging  the financial impact of that decision, with the realization that what was a big thing to me, did not matter in the bigger picture. Thankfully I get to spend lots of time with the kids (we homeschool, the wife and I trade off days )

Link Posted: 6/29/2012 7:04:28 AM EDT
[#41]
In my eyes you made no mistake.  Now if you would have not tried, then you made a mistake.
Link Posted: 6/29/2012 7:05:09 AM EDT
[#42]



Quoted:



Quoted:


Quoted:


Quoted:

You did the honorable thing.  




There is no honor among thieves and looters




That's why it's best to avoid them.  




How do you avoid the federal government?


Buy a warehouse full of shoe polish and move to Zimbabwe?



 
Link Posted: 6/29/2012 7:05:15 AM EDT
[#43]
Link Posted: 6/29/2012 7:05:48 AM EDT
[#44]
Quoted:
You did the honorable thing.  


Tell that to the OP when he is slaving away to make up the $400K while other people are getting .gov giveaways. Honor is for chumps, ask anyone who are living off of O's stash.
Link Posted: 6/29/2012 7:07:55 AM EDT
[#45]
You did good.

Link Posted: 6/29/2012 7:10:24 AM EDT
[#46]
Quoted:
Quoted:



Please, it is a cost of doing business and factored into every loan and piece of credit you take out.

The businesses you take credit from are charging you what they can, because they assume you will screw them over - they expect no "honor"


Bullfuckingshit.

First of all, I extend hundreds of thousands of dollars of credit to my customers at any point in time. I expect ALL of them to pay me because that is what they promised to do. I don't have a default rate figured it. That is a fucking myth for most companies. I've never seen a P&L or a projected sales with an anticipated default amount added to it, unless they were specifically talking about the current default rate. No one would extend credit to someone they think will default. That is not how it works.

Literally my best friend is the President of 2 banks in my town. I'm not filing bankruptcy because I would be breaking my promise to him, besides it could potentially risk his job if he made loans to people who file bankruptcy. I can't do that to anyone, much less my friend.

to the OP: A lot of my friends had to take out consolidation loans to get everything caught up to keep their businesses going after 01 so I understand what happened. One of them had to get a million dollar loan to pay off everything he charged and owed during that time. He could have easily declared bankruptcy. Fortunately, business recovered and was great, however it was certainly a trying time. Including my business. We never saw 9/11 coming so it was difficult to prepare for. Fortunately, I saw 08 coming. It wasn't effecting my business, but when GWB went on TV and talked about a credit crunch and a bailout, smart business people took heed and cut back and positioned themselves to ride out the bad times that were coming.



Wait, you dispute that the price of a customer not paying isn't built into credit / loan guarantees?

This is why lines of credit, mortgages, credit cards, etc have higher interest rates for those with worse credit scores. The "can they pay it back" factor is built into everything.
Link Posted: 6/29/2012 7:14:47 AM EDT
[#47]
You did the honorable thing.

I would have done the same thing, back then too.

I am done with doing "the honorable thing" effective 10:00 AM EST, Thursday June 28th 2012.

I am now, and will be a bum, until this wrong is made right.
Link Posted: 6/29/2012 7:15:16 AM EDT
[#48]



Quoted:



Quoted:




Quoted:

You did the honorable thing.  
meaning that bankruptcy is less than honorable,there is a lot of well respected corporations and business men
who are less than honorable,I guess we could go back to the debtors prisons of old,that is an environment that

really makes one want to risk their capital



 




This man worked his way out of debt and you think it would have been "honorable" to stiff others on debt he chose to incur?  No wonder the country has problems.  




"We have no government armed with power capable of contending with human passions unbridled by morality and religion . . . Our Constitution was made only for a moral and religious people. It is wholly inadequate to the government of any other." John Adams
I nominate this for post-of-the-month.



Anybody who would use another man as his moral standard is truly lost.  Moral relativism is at the very heart of America's decline and pending failure.  It never ceases to amaze me how many people even here on Arfcom are wandering aimlessly through life with no foundation to discern right from wrong.  



 
Link Posted: 6/29/2012 7:23:12 AM EDT
[#49]
Quoted:
Donald Trump didn't get where he was by doing the honorable thing

Really man, you made a decision. It's over. Don't live in the past. You'll be back up again in no time


Speed
 


I concur, with the most important part being "don't live in the past".


Link Posted: 6/29/2012 7:27:54 AM EDT
[#50]
Quoted:
You did the honorable thing.  


I actually agree with you!

Now we get to watch Arfcom rail against doing what's right and paying off what you owe.  Honoring your word and your debt.
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