I’ll support legalizing drugs…


.. when we first instate laws that anyone found to have used drugs automatically forfeits eligibility for all government sponsored social programs. Welfare, substance abuse clinics, methadone… etc.

If you are all “taking responsibly for one’s own body”, the hell if I’m paying for it!

Once everyone agrees to take responsibility for what happens once you start doing drugs on a regular bases, and I’ve seen what even pot alone can do, then there is no turning back, and no …. “But I can’t hold a job” Whahhh wahhhh, sh_t.  You want it? You got it baby. Now live with it.

In the immortal words of a friend of mine, “Bite me!”

--LS

OY!

Think very carefully about this.  Look at the volume of drugs imported into this country annually, and compare that to the number of those who destroy their lives by using.

There are a [i]helluva[/i] lot of people who use drugs without it destroying or even affecting their lives.  If they didn't exist, the drug trade wouldn't be half as profitable.

We've been beating the dead horse of the "War on (some) Drugs" for decades, and the only effects it has had are:[list]

[*]to put a lot of people in jail for use and possession,[/*]  

[*]to increase the size of Federal government,[/*]

[*]to infringe our civil rights,[/*]

[*]to increase in the amount of violent and other crime[/*]

[*]a reduction in the actual street cost of drugs.[/*][/list]

Time to try something else, in my opinion.  Anything else.  Not the same thing, only harder.

And I've never used an illicit mood-altering substance in my life.  I don't drink or smoke either.

DO away with ALL wefare programs.  I can live with that.

P.J. O'Rourke: "No drug, not even alcohol, causes the fundamental ills of society. If we're looking for the sources of our troubles, we shouldn't test people for drugs, we should test them for stupidity, ignorance, greed and love of power" ("Give War a Chance," p. 110).

St. John Chrysostom: "What? Did the wine, O man, produce this evil? Not the wine, O man, but the intemperance of such as take an evil delight in it. Say then, 'Would there were no drunkenness …,' but if thou say 'Would there were no wine,' thou wilt say, going on by degrees, 'Would there were no steel, because of the murderers; no night, because of the thieves; no light, because of the informers; no women, because of the adulteries;' and, in a word, thou wilt destroy all" (Homilies 57:5).

Yes. We need a comprehensive "Personal Responsibility and Protection Act", which includes legalizing drugs/gambling/prostitution, elimination of welfare, federal shall issue CCW, phase out of social security, and many others...

O-ye yo-yoye…   FALSE. Untrue, inaccurate, and downright ignorant.





And you believe in the Easter Bunny too?

Tell you what, when you consider my proposal, I’ll consider yours.

Oh, and we are to believe that you guys won't sue anyone for "ruining your heath" or "allowing your to become addicted" too?

Yea, just ask the Tobacco companies and the gun manufacturers about that one.

That act would be one of the greatest laws ever.

We often hear calls for this sort of thing from the Libertopians on the board, but how would you get it done in [b]this[/b] country, with [b]this[/b] population and press, and [b]this[/b] congress?

So your asserting that [i]any[/i] illegal drug use destroys the life of the user?  Or am I missing your point?

Easter Bunny?  What on that list do you equate to a commercially created creature?  Which has [i]not[/i] occurred as a direct result of the "War on Drugs?"

whoop jarhead opens a can of ice-whipping...
And you are hopeful that the ban will sunset with this country, this population, and this congress? Ok republitopians...why should congress give you your guns back? nevermind..it
ain't gonna happen. And legalize drugs..it ain't gonna happen either. GW now sees the role of government is to protect you....nanny state in full effect.

Sounds like a plan to me.  Spend all the money our governments spending on interdiction, on treatment and education instead.  The savings will come from (a reduction in)incarceration costs.

long,

Do really believe that inanimate objects or some chemical can make people act against their will, say something like dope or even a gun?

hound:

I respect and believe in some of the ideals of "small L" libertarians. However, I don't see the path from where we are now to where the "big L" Libertarians want to take us. That's all I'm asking, for someone to point out that path for me.

You appear unable or unwilling to do that. Are you just reacting negatively to my use of the term "Libertopian?" I use that in reference to the "big L" Libertarians who advocate open borders, pulling the military entirely back in CONUS and 100% abortion on demand.

[red]Longshot[/red], you need to get out there and VOTE LIBERTARIAN!

We'll not only end welfare, we'll also legalize pot.  Plus you get all your gun rights back!

[red]Jarhead[/red], you accomplish that in more-or-less the same way the laws were put in place to begin with.  You elect freedom-loving representatives to office and tell them to start repealing laws and government programs.

Look what they did in New Zealand.  Look what they're trying to do in Costa Rica.

It won't happen in a single day, but if you keep electing the same goons to office who are in there now, it won't happen at all.

Hmmmm, yea but you Libert-s basically just seem to believe in natural selection and see all this as a way to get rid of all the stupid people (or have them get rid of themselves) so you can have more for yourselves.

Now, I'm all for personal responsibly, but I try not to only think of myself... or am I going nuts?

=)

most of the stuuf that I agree with is here

http://www.webleyweb.com/tle/

As for your points...open borders yep--but no welfare and no handouts
troops in Conus yep---unless legally declared war
abortion on demand---nope-this is feminazi--
should abortion be legal? yep--should you get your tubes tied for being an idiot yep

The big L libertarians---the national party are just as stupid and corrupt as the demoncrats
or the republitoilets


and for long shot----who nominated you god?
freedom means taking care of yourself and helping out within reason....not having 50% of your paycheck stolen and given to "victims"

My problem is that I'm stuck between Republican party ideals and Libertarian party threats. I'm for most of the things that are planks of the Republican party platform, and also support many of the things that the Libertarian party calls for. The devil is in the details, though.

The Libertarians will never get enough of a majority in congress to repeal all welfare, yet with the assistance of Democrats, they may just get enough to open the borders. What then?

I'll just have to keep voting for people on an individual basis, the best candidate for the job, rather than by party affiliation.

Yes, obviously freedom is too scary a concept for the people to grasp all at once. But, how about moving in that direction a little at a time? For example, someone could introduce a national CCW bill or one repeal the Brady bill or whatever. GWB could answer objections, point out statistics, and explain the TRUTH. Lots of people are listening to him now. The Republican politicians need to go on the offensive, and allow the Democrats to reveal themselves as hysterical children whoose ideas are not based on reality.

Why ME of course! I create something from nothing for a living...

I don't see wehere we disagree here....




Yes, actually this is a scientific fact. (duuuh, no, they just made it illegal because they felt like it)

Now, to your point, SURE I know people who are allot smarter than I who do some of the less harmful substances even though they are illegal. Heck my GF broke the law and consumed alcoholic beverages before she turned 21 last month. But these are not the ones I’m concerned with. They are the minority.




Fictions, fairy tails, story telling…. Numbers 3, 4, and 5.   Call it what you will.

All I ask is that you look at the implications. It solves nothing to turn the table. NOTHING! The resulting problems are equally bad if not worse. And the government body that would be needed to regulate all that “legal drugs use” would be colossal.

I'll check out the site, thanks.


I'll never agree to open borders. Any nation has to control its borders.
No handouts? Wow, tough timing what with me being laid off for a month and being on the phone with the Texas Workforce Commission while I respond to this thread.

So we don't get to forward-deploy any troops? We always have to be responding off our back foot when anything happens that is against our national interests?

What's the difference between abortion on demand and legal abortion? If you're advocating forced sterilization for idiots, you've got my vote!

Problem is, liberals won't look at your ideas as freedom, but oppression. Did you see the Red & Blue election map?
[img]images.usatoday.com/news/electmap.jpg[/img]

The Blue areas are the most populous urbanized areas of the country. How do you think you'll get the Blues to vote for or support doing away with welfare? Or gun control? They're too busy agitating for reparations for slavery to take up any other causes.

longshot---good answer on the god thing--"Thou art god"  At least one prohibition was for the protection of cotton farmers and not because it was a BAD drug..
Open borders--ya don't have to control them, just make sure that people are scared to screw-up in your back yard.
Forward-deploy? deploy from Barksdale--bombs away--and come home. National interests?
For the money that we spend in most of the police actions, we could buy the whole country.
Abortion on demand is,to me, anytime anywhere repeatedly....nope wrong answer. It should not be used as contraception. One legal and a tubal.
Forced sterilization...yep---youi out of the gene pool!!!
hand-outs---didn't you pay for unemployment protection..it is yours buddy....but not somebody that is still sh!tting peper seeds from chihuahua...kapishe?

And blue versus red...how about we let out the idea that most of the blue voters are in voluntary slavery to the government and we should all come into this century "I can't vote against the master, because I won't get my check"

FACT: a vast majority of this country's population has authoritarian leanings, and desires security and protection. Hell, in Virginia, our Libertarian Party candidate for governor was anti-gun! Even the Libertarians here aren't comfortable with absolute freedom!
As long as the prevailing climate of authoritarian leanings remains, the LP will never have it's ideas fulfilled. The fundamental problem is that Americans don't trust their fellow citizens to act responsibly-a precept that libertarian ideas are based on.

How would that have helped with the WTC attackers? Did you know that the INS just issued visas for two of them? Rather than open borders, I'm thinking minefields and zero tolerance.

Good point on the bombers, but I like having a few Amphibious Ready Groups sailing around out there like not-so-concealed weapons in case an embassy needs to be reinforced or another Achille Lauro needs to be handled on short notice.

Another good point.

Getting there.

And no running!

True, where do all the poor people go when the benefits hydrant gets turned off and welded closed?


Good luck with that line of reasoning. Don't get me wrong: I'm sold! But the Blues still get a vote, and many/most of them have a vested interest in the status quo.

Great ideas though. Thanks for the reasoned responses.

poodle....I think that is changing...pilots talking about being armed, people getting upset about feel-good security checkpoints, more gun-sales....but back to drugs....

Oh yeah...the drugs....

Legalize 'em, but nobody gets any kind of help/support/my money when they inevitably screw themselves/others up with them.

terrorist...we have had a policy that doesn't make them scared--osomee been lately has possibly been involved before and we told a friendly government to let him go DOH!!
Kill em...if you use a stick, I bring a gun,
if you use a bomb, I use more. No more Mr. Nice guy and don't tell the world that you are after terrorist and then go nation building and planning pipelines. ARG's cool...but the hell with peace-keeping missions...if one side is dead the peace will be kept.poor people..are you kidding? Mcdonalds is now paying eight dollars an hour...work or starve and if you CAN't work?
maybe if the government would stop stealing all the money, we could take care of our own.
Jarhead..I think you miss my point..I like the chinese solution...ya want opium? here have a bunch----death within thirty days no problem.

The war on drugs has worked so well why not keep it going. I mean you can't even get any drugs on the street anymore so no one is doing drugs, what's the problem? The billions of dollars that are used would just be wasted on something else that we don't need anyway like education, everyone knows we have the best public schools in the world. The schools even have a couple state of the art Apple computers that the children can stand in line to use. It's also done wonders for our rights, we have more personal freedom now then ever in America's history, it must be a good thing. It has also cut down on street crime since there are no druggies anymore and we all feel so much safer. All drug users must be kept in jail, I feel much safer knowing that Joe Pothead is behind bars, I was so scared knowing that he might be home smoking marijuana. I know all those violent criminals were quickly rehabilitated and released to make room for more evil potheads. I knew a guy that smoked some pot once and he could never get a job and it ruined his life, and he seemed like such a winner before he smoked that pot. All that factual info you give us about pot must be right, I don't know why people can't "Just say NO", I mean haven't they seen that documentary where it shows how your brain frys up and looks like an fried egg, who would want their brain to look like that? Thank you government for making this country a better place and keep up the good work, I really appreciate that you make such good use of my easily earned tax dollars.

I just heard they busted some big drug king pin.

Watch all those drugs go away now.

Should be no more problems in a few weeks once all the existing stock gets used up, eh?

Hellraiser, Halfcocked,

I'm sure glad you have all the answers. Whooh, I feel alot better knowing that it is just as simple as making it all leagal and all.

Gee, I don't knwo why none of those liberal f___ wit polititians havn't thought of that one.

--------------

A mind _is_ a terrible think to waste. Good thing you don't have to worry about that.

Wait a second.  One of the arguments of those supporting drug legalization has always been that the street price will go down, resulting in less crime by users.  Y'all need to get your stories straight.

lonshot_va, I wish I did have all the answers but sadly I don't. These are the things that I know:

1.The war on drugs is not working.
2.When something does not work, you should try something else.
3.The war on drugs hurts people who's only crime is the use of those drugs.

Many of the things you propose are probably right around the corner in the next phase of the war on drugs, without the legalization, which should make your kind of people happy. Also I have no problems with what you suggest. I believe in personal responsibility. Sure I have smoked pot and tried other drugs. I have also worked my ass off since I was 15 years old, which included 6 years in the USMC, I am 37 years old now. I have been unemployed for a total of 2 months since I was 15. I have not taken a dime from our government in the form of social services, rehab, unemployment or anything of that nature. I'm sure there are plenty of non-drug users that can't say that. I have also worked my way through school and got a degree and have a very decent paying job and pay more than my share of taxes. There are plenty of drug users like myself that are pillars of their community and you would never know that we might like to smoke a little pot in our homes at night - the same as you might enjoy a beer in the privacy of your own home. What scares you about that? Why do you need to dictate what others do in their own homes that don't affect you?

Just random thoughts:

1)  You can't build enough jails to hold drug offenders and the other criminals.

2)  Violent offenders are being early-released to make room for drug offenders.

3)  You can't stop a black market.

4)  How many of our rights as citizens have been sacrificed on the black alter of the war on drugs.
Too many; far too many.

longshot_va, think "incrementalism".  Take what political victories you can when you can.  If you have any further questions, ask your local socialist about how well this works.

I'm all for it, if it's taxed and will decrease my income taxes.  Twenty years ago, I would have been shocked to hear myself say that.  After working for sixty years (got my first job when I was 13) and paying taxes for nearly that long, and never directly receiving a dime of it back for me or any member of my immediate family, I'm getting cynical.  Well, I have received money directly from the government, but that was a paycheck for my time freezing my (excuse my language) ass off in Korea.  It wasn't my choise to be there.  I don't expect much from the government, but I'm sick and tired of them taking such a large chunk.  What do I ask for from them?  Good roads, police, schools, and safe food are about it.  I have about $100 per month to spend on myself after expenses, health insurance, and taxes even with working every day.  To put it in perspective, my Oly AR-15 cost me over five months of my spending money.  That just isn't right.  Instead of the government treats me like a criminal because I want to own a gun.  I've never been approved by NICS even though I've lived a lawful life.  As far as I know, the worst crime I've committed is speeding, and I don't do that often and never received a ticket.  I've been arrested twice at license checks for suspicion of DUI.  I don't drink, and I never have.  Last summer, I ended-up face down on the [i]hot[/i] pavement when an officer asked me if I had a weapon at a license check.  I had a pocket knife with a 2 1/2" blade in my pocket.  I was delayed for over an hour, burned my face and chest and ruined a uniform over a damn pocket knife.  The state police have denied me a concealed carry permit even though by law they are required to issue one to anyone who qualifies.  I spend hours researching obscure and confusing gun laws to make sure I'm legal.  I spend more time answering questions for others on gun discussion groups.  All this time wasted and hassle with laws, and I haven't been shooting since August(!) because the range near my house is watched every single minute by a LEO.  My tax money pays his salary and for the range, but I can't shoot my AR there.  My tax money goes towards paying someone to harass people who shoot at this range.  I give-up on getting anything in return for my tax money, and I'll support legalizing drugs if it decreases the amount of my tax money that is spent on police, jails, and creates income from taxes on drugs.  I'll give my 40% of my income without complaint if the government would only stay out of my way when it comes to travel on roads (that I've already paid my part of) and gun ownership.  Of course, I know they won't do either.z

I also am for the legalization of drugs.

And what about all of the junkies on welfare and medicare? Well, I ask anyone to find where in the Constitution it mentions all of these social “rights”? The Founding Fathers envisioned a limited form of government, extending little beyond what was written in the Constitution.

Yes, drugs should be legalized AND we as a country should move away from being a welfare state. It’s time to take responsibility for our actions.

Excellent idea longshot!



And, of course, the one that everyone always seems to forget:  It actually prevented some people from ever starting.

The Drug War, The Gun War and The Terror War are All One in the Same War.

Divide And Conquer.

With the War on Terror Killing Two Birds with one Stone.
The Patriot Act, The One that blew a hole in the Constitution.

Liberation Day, Saturday May 04, 2002
[url]www.cures-not-wars.org/[/url]

Truth Will Liberate Earth.

The government wouldn’t legalize it because it's an illegal/hidden source of Money (i.e.) for covert operation’s, Iran / Contra’s.

Drug’s should be treated the same as Alcohol and Tobacco.

The War has Always been about Racism and Control of People.

^
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