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Posted: 7/19/2008 7:54:44 PM EDT
Here is a link for basically the same type wallet. They SAY they are not as they are identifiable as firearms. What say you. There is one on EBAY as well.

http://packwellsupply.com/Walletholster.htm
Link Posted: 7/19/2008 8:00:22 PM EDT
Still need a CCW to carry in your pocket
Link Posted: 7/19/2008 8:02:35 PM EDT
I thought the "test" was if it could be fired without removing it from said "device"
(and, is there any reason that you don't want that website "hotlinked"?)
Link Posted: 7/19/2008 8:04:20 PM EDT
Yeah I have a CCW, but do not want to run afoul with this as an illegal wallet holster. I saw one of these at a gunshow last year and they were saying legal because the outline clearly showed.... blah, blah blah. I don't really trust any gunshow seller because he'll tell you it will lift your car off you in an emergancy just to make money.
Link Posted: 7/19/2008 8:05:45 PM EDT

Originally Posted By 22bad:
I thought the "test" was if it could be fired without removing it from said "device"
(and, is there any reason that you don't want that website "hotlinked"?)


No I meant to hot link it, no misintention here. AND it can be fired as you see it no removal necessary
Link Posted: 7/19/2008 8:09:17 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 7/19/2008 8:10:19 PM EDT by 22bad]

Originally Posted By salsa:

Originally Posted By 22bad:
I thought the "test" was if it could be fired without removing it from said "device"
(and, is there any reason that you don't want that website "hotlinked"?)


No I meant to hot link it, no misintention here. AND it can be fired as you see it no removal necessary


Yeah, the hole over the trigger makes it obvious it can be fired

I'm saying that I thought it being able to be fired is what MADE it an AOW
packwellsupply.com/Walletholster.htm

ETA: someone want to post the pic?
Link Posted: 7/19/2008 8:10:09 PM EDT
Well the the people at that website say that since they are not disguising the gun it is kosher.

I say that is probably so, part of the problem with the NAAs was that that holster hid the gun, yet still allowed it to be fired.
Link Posted: 7/19/2008 8:11:33 PM EDT
The website says that they are cleared with the AFT, but I'd be worried about the ATF myself.

"Outside of your pocket, your firearm is still readily identifiable as a firearm. For this reason the Wallet Holster is in legal compliance of the Regulations of the Bureau of AFT without modification."
Link Posted: 7/19/2008 8:16:21 PM EDT
Its only illegal if it can be fired while still in the wallet
Link Posted: 7/19/2008 8:16:25 PM EDT
I have a High Standard DM-101 in .22mag. that gets shoved in behind my wallet on those light flow days..
Link Posted: 7/19/2008 8:18:57 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 7/19/2008 8:19:22 PM EDT by Tango7]
Link Posted: 7/19/2008 8:19:05 PM EDT

Originally Posted By man_of_few_words:
The website says that they are cleared with the AFT, but I'd be worried about the ATF myself.

"Outside of your pocket, your firearm is still readily identifiable as a firearm. For this reason the Wallet Holster is in legal compliance of the Regulations of the Bureau of AFT without modification."


Yeah, those aft guys are a lot more "easygoing", heh
Link Posted: 7/19/2008 8:19:21 PM EDT
Stupid fucking..."rules" be damned... if you have a need for it... get it.
Link Posted: 7/19/2008 8:22:21 PM EDT

Originally Posted By 22bad:

Originally Posted By man_of_few_words:
The website says that they are cleared with the AFT, but I'd be worried about the ATF myself.

"Outside of your pocket, your firearm is still readily identifiable as a firearm. For this reason the Wallet Holster is in legal compliance of the Regulations of the Bureau of AFT without modification."


Yeah, those aft guys are a lot more "easygoing", heh


And if the ATF gets on your trail, you can kiss your AFT goodbye.
Link Posted: 7/19/2008 8:25:43 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Tango7:
What made the original wallet holsters an AOW, guys, wasn't the "concealing" factor - it was the idea that the holster could be used as a handle.

Kind of like hanging a VFG on a rail equipped pistol converts it into an AOW.


That is not what NAA says:link

Why has the wallet holster been discontinued?

The wallet, in and of itself, is a benign piece of folded leather. The minirevolver is a time-tested, high-quality small firearm but, when you join one with the other, watch out! _ you've just created what ATF defines as 'any other weapon', a rather nefarious classification which includes pen guns, cane guns and other disguised weaponry. While legal to own, AOWs require registration and payment of special taxes similar to those for fully-automatic weapons. Possession of an AOW without meeting these requirements subjects the holder to a felony charge (which further exposes us to the liability of a lawsuit).

The distinction between the WH and the folding holster grip or the belt buckle, as it has been explained to us, is that the WH weapon is operable from its disguised state (no need to remove it from the wallet in order to fire it). Both the HG and BB require that the gun be additionally manipulated (opened, removed) before it is functional, and so suffer no 'special' classification. The WH was a very popular accessory and it's a great disappointment that we're unable to offer it for sale.


Link Posted: 7/19/2008 8:30:11 PM EDT

Originally Posted By salsa:
Yeah I have a CCW, but do not want to run afoul with this as an illegal wallet holster. I saw one of these at a gunshow last year and they were saying legal because the outline clearly showed.... blah, blah blah. I don't really trust any gunshow seller because he'll tell you it will lift your car off you in an emergancy just to make money.


Write the word "FIREARM" in flourescent marker ALL OVER the goddam holster.
Link Posted: 7/19/2008 8:35:03 PM EDT
Even if the holster is classified as an AOW, that doesn't make it illegal (dispite some of the posts on this thread).

If you want one, you can get the tax stamp for $5
Link Posted: 7/19/2008 8:37:06 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 7/19/2008 8:38:18 PM EDT by AllserviceBilliards]

Originally Posted By 444:
Even if the holster is classified as an AOW, that doesn't make it illegal (dispite some of the posts on this thread).

If you want one, you can get the tax stamp for $5


You are not correct. The holster is not an AOW. Just like a verticle grip, a holster is not a firearm. The handgun is. If you want one for $5, you need to find one ALREADY manufactured as an AOW and TRANSFER it. If you want to put your previously owned handgun in the holster, the making tax stamp is $200.
Link Posted: 7/19/2008 8:37:46 PM EDT

Originally Posted By 444:
Even if the holster is classified as an AOW, that doesn't make it illegal (dispite some of the posts on this thread).

If you want one, you can get the tax stamp for $5


$200 manufacture
$5 transfer

Link Posted: 7/19/2008 8:45:19 PM EDT

Originally Posted By man_of_few_words:

Originally Posted By 22bad:

Originally Posted By man_of_few_words:
The website says that they are cleared with the AFT, but I'd be worried about the ATF myself.

"Outside of your pocket, your firearm is still readily identifiable as a firearm. For this reason the Wallet Holster is in legal compliance of the Regulations of the Bureau of AFT without modification."


Yeah, those aft guys are a lot more "easygoing", heh


And if the ATF gets on your trail, you can kiss your AFT goodbye.


That would suck, I'm quite enamored of both my fore and my aft
Link Posted: 7/19/2008 8:47:24 PM EDT

Originally Posted By man_of_few_words:

Originally Posted By 444:
Even if the holster is classified as an AOW, that doesn't make it illegal (dispite some of the posts on this thread).

If you want one, you can get the tax stamp for $5


$200 manufacture
$5 transfer



That's obviously if you have no imagination.
Link Posted: 7/19/2008 8:51:10 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 7/19/2008 8:52:07 PM EDT by santanatwo]
I perfer this





ETA, going on 5 years now
Link Posted: 7/19/2008 8:51:34 PM EDT
Link Posted: 7/19/2008 8:51:53 PM EDT
If you've had a wallet holster for years prior to the AOW ruling, is it grandfathered or do you need the tax stamp to use it?
Link Posted: 7/19/2008 8:55:33 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 7/19/2008 8:56:47 PM EDT by santanatwo]

Originally Posted By danc46:
If you've had a wallet holster for years prior to the AOW ruling, is it grandfathered or do you need the tax stamp to use it?


Tt gets better, Dan, you can buy one of the wallet holsters, but you need a tax stamp to put a gun in it, just like all the handguns with lower rails that also happen to fit weaver (think vertical foregrip).



Just need to mention, the defining characteristics of the tax stamp,

1. the ability to fire the gun while in the "holster" AND

2. the holster concealing the gun.
Link Posted: 7/19/2008 8:58:11 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 7/19/2008 8:58:47 PM EDT by santanatwo]

Originally Posted By danc46:
If you've had a wallet holster for years prior to the AOW ruling, is it grandfathered or do you need the tax stamp to use it?


the real question is "if you have a pocket pistol and some leather, is it constructive intent?"
Link Posted: 7/19/2008 8:59:06 PM EDT


I would say that is an AOW if it can be fired from the holster. THEY say it can be readily identified as a firearm, but THEY are not the BATFE (or the "AFT" as the questionably shady website says)

Methinks this is asking for a NFA bust. cover up the hole for the trigger and you're in business though IMO, but I'm no lawyer.
Link Posted: 7/19/2008 9:03:12 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 7/19/2008 9:03:43 PM EDT by santanatwo]

Originally Posted By Napoleon_Tanerite:
packwellsupply.com/Holdster_br380.jpg

I would say that is an AOW if it can be fired from the holster. THEY say it can be readily identified as a firearm, but THEY are not the BATFE (or the "AFT" as the questionably shady website says)

Methinks this is asking for a NFA bust. cover up the hole for the trigger and you're in business though IMO, but I'm no lawyer.


then you just have this




Link Posted: 7/19/2008 9:04:06 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Napoleon_Tanerite:
packwellsupply.com/Holdster_br380.jpg

I would say that is an AOW if it can be fired from the holster. THEY say it can be readily identified as a firearm, but THEY are not the BATFE (or the "AFT" as the questionably shady website says)

Methinks this is asking for a NFA bust. cover up the hole for the trigger and you're in business though IMO, but I'm no lawyer.


It is a simple matter of asking a dozen people off the street to be witnesses at your trial and asking them to identify "Exhibit A". I cannot imagine there is a human being in America that would say anything other than "Gun".

I stick to my earlier suggestion: write the word "FIREARM" all over the holster with flourescent marker.
Link Posted: 7/19/2008 9:04:44 PM EDT
why not get the laser for it, it gives the same profile.
Link Posted: 7/19/2008 9:06:11 PM EDT

Originally Posted By santanatwo:
why not get the laser for it, it gives the same profile.


Anyone got that pic, IIRC that was a pretty good setup
(barring the fact that I have no confidence in that weapon)
Link Posted: 7/19/2008 9:06:51 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 7/19/2008 9:09:47 PM EDT by man_of_few_words]

Originally Posted By AllserviceBilliards:

Originally Posted By Napoleon_Tanerite:
packwellsupply.com/Holdster_br380.jpg

I would say that is an AOW if it can be fired from the holster. THEY say it can be readily identified as a firearm, but THEY are not the BATFE (or the "AFT" as the questionably shady website says)

Methinks this is asking for a NFA bust. cover up the hole for the trigger and you're in business though IMO, but I'm no lawyer.


It is a simple matter of asking a dozen people off the street to be witnesses at your trial and asking them to identify "Exhibit A". I cannot imagine there is a human being in America that would say anything other than "Gun".

I stick to my earlier suggestion: write the word "FIREARM" all over the holster with flourescent marker.


Olofson Jury?
Link Posted: 7/19/2008 9:09:52 PM EDT

Originally Posted By 22bad:

Originally Posted By santanatwo:
why not get the laser for it, it gives the same profile.


Anyone got that pic, IIRC that was a pretty good setup
(barring the fact that I have no confidence in that weapon)


bitch say what?

Eye keeled a cottonmouth, and a rabbit (at 15 yards) and a cow eatin stray dog.

very acurate, and reliable.

I can hit pop cans at 15 yards, every shot.
Link Posted: 7/19/2008 9:14:59 PM EDT
Link Posted: 7/19/2008 9:17:44 PM EDT

Originally Posted By man_of_few_words:

Originally Posted By AllserviceBilliards:

Originally Posted By Napoleon_Tanerite:
packwellsupply.com/Holdster_br380.jpg

I would say that is an AOW if it can be fired from the holster. THEY say it can be readily identified as a firearm, but THEY are not the BATFE (or the "AFT" as the questionably shady website says)

Methinks this is asking for a NFA bust. cover up the hole for the trigger and you're in business though IMO, but I'm no lawyer.


It is a simple matter of asking a dozen people off the street to be witnesses at your trial and asking them to identify "Exhibit A". I cannot imagine there is a human being in America that would say anything other than "Gun".

I stick to my earlier suggestion: write the word "FIREARM" all over the holster with flourescent marker.


Olofson Jury?


While I appreciate your insight, you must concede that the Olofson Jury was asked if the firearm met the definition - the law makes no exception for a malfunctioning gun. In this case, by the law's definition, the firearm must look like something OTHER than a firearm. I contend that it very much looks like a gun - especially when pointed at the jury by an animated defense atourney - or when the word "FIREARM" is written all over it - if "Wet Floor" pre-empts civil suit, I see no reason why this is a firearm.
Link Posted: 7/19/2008 9:18:37 PM EDT

Originally Posted By santanatwo:

Originally Posted By 22bad:

Originally Posted By santanatwo:
why not get the laser for it, it gives the same profile.


Anyone got that pic, IIRC that was a pretty good setup
(barring the fact that I have no confidence in that weapon)


bitch say what?

Eye keeled a cottonmouth, and a rabbit (at 15 yards) and a cow eatin stray dog.

very acurate, and reliable.

I can hit pop cans at 15 yards, every shot.


I got a Glock because I'm a big fan of reliability
are you saying that pistol is as reliable as mine?
Link Posted: 7/20/2008 3:25:15 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 7/20/2008 3:46:33 AM EDT by Sturmgewehr-58]

Originally Posted By Tango7:
What made the original wallet holsters an AOW, guys, wasn't the "concealing" factor


Yes, it was.

It is regulated as a disguised weapon, along the lines of a gun disguised as a cane, or a pen.
www-2.cs.cmu.edu/afs/cs/user/wbardwel/public/nfalist/atf_letter18.txt


"Placing the High-Standard derringer in the "Wallet-Holster" negates
the use of the birdshead type stock which can no longer be gripped
by the hand in the conventional manner. The derringer thus becomes
a concealed gadget device in the same category as a can gun, a belt
buckle pistol, or a cigarette lighter gun, and is classified as
"any other weapon" in the amended National Firearms Act of 1968.
"
Link Posted: 7/20/2008 3:33:32 AM EDT

Originally Posted By salsa:
Here is a link for basically the same type wallet. They SAY they are not as they are identifiable as firearms. What say you. There is one on EBAY as well.

http://packwellsupply.com/Walletholster.htm


Should not be an AOW.


"If you would like to submit a redesigned or modified holster that
you believe would not be subject to the NFA when held in
combination with an American Derringer firearm, we will be happy to
examine it and provide you with the results. We would suggest that
the redesigned sample no longer resemble a wallet and the
modification should include cutting the top rear of the wallet,
thereby exposing the entire back strap and trigger guard area of
the inserted derringer. The cuts should follow the exact contour
of the frame of the pistol and not overlap to risk a disguised
appearance.
"
Link Posted: 7/20/2008 4:44:21 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 7/20/2008 6:23:47 AM EDT by RiffRandall]

Originally Posted By santanatwo:
why not get the laser for it, it gives the same profile.


IIRC somebody made a grip thingamajig for S&W J frames that squared off the profile to something like the gun in question. Held extra ammo, might have had a laser also. Was still recognizable as a gun because the revolver wasn't covered up.

<eta> Seems like it was made by Pachmayr. Bottom of page
Link Posted: 7/20/2008 5:41:02 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 7/20/2008 5:41:14 AM EDT by Tango7]
Link Posted: 7/20/2008 5:54:07 AM EDT
Not an AOW, does not disguise the weapon.

As long as it isn't modified to conceal the weapon over the slide it is legal to own and use in conjunction with a semi-automatic pistol without falling in the AOW classification.
Link Posted: 7/20/2008 6:18:04 AM EDT

Originally Posted By 22bad:

Originally Posted By santanatwo:

Originally Posted By 22bad:

Originally Posted By santanatwo:
why not get the laser for it, it gives the same profile.


Anyone got that pic, IIRC that was a pretty good setup
(barring the fact that I have no confidence in that weapon)


bitch say what?

Eye keeled a cottonmouth, and a rabbit (at 15 yards) and a cow eatin stray dog.

very acurate, and reliable.

I can hit pop cans at 15 yards, every shot.


I got a Glock because I'm a big fan of reliability
are you saying that pistol is as reliable as mine?

I have a P3AT and two glocks. All are reliable just the same. That is the reason the glock and P3AT are carried for my ccw.
Link Posted: 7/20/2008 6:26:31 AM EDT

Originally Posted By glock21guy:
Its only illegal if it can be fired while still in the wallet


I sometimes have a J frame in my briefcase (open top). I could be carrying it in my left hand and reach in with my right.............

wonder if I should board the dog?
Link Posted: 7/20/2008 6:31:37 AM EDT
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