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Posted: 8/14/2007 3:25:17 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/14/2007 3:28:04 PM EDT by shop_rat45]
Well, last Sunday, we had an all of a sudden heavy downpour of rain and heavy wind. Right afterwards, I left Wal-Mart to go to Burger King and get some food. Well, it seemed that every low point in the roads was flooded since the storm drains couldn't handle that much water all at once. So, I decided to avoid the heavy flooded areas and take some side streets to get my juicy flame-broiled goodness. I Approached a side street and it seemed that there was some heavy water flow going down the street, but no heavy flooding. So, I'm driving along when the car's traction control kicks on, water flows up over the hood, and the car dies. This all happens in a split second. Apparently, I hit a huge water puddle that I didn't even see there. From me pushing through it, it pushed the water over the hood and into the intake air box. The water was sucked into the engine and locked it up. I was literally dead in the water. So, I now have water up to the bottom of the doors (luckily not inside the car) and the starter laughs at me for even thinking to start the car. It is hydro locked! Luckily, a couple of guys came out and pushed me out of the puddle. The car wasn't even thinking of starting. So, I get a friend of mine to come give me a tow home.
I get the car home and this thing won't even turn over. I thinking I bent a rod or something horrible. So, after dumping about 2 gallons of water out of the intake system, I pull the spark plugs out of it and crank it over. It blows out another gallon or so of water. So, now that the cylinders are clear, I put the plugs back in and try to start it. After trying for a while, it fires up. There's no clanking or any other tell tale sign of major damage, so, for the moment, I'm relieved. Then I thought "what if it got into the oil?". So I only ran the car for about 10 seconds and shut it off. Now, of course the dipstick says I'm about 2 quarts over full and the oil has turned that horrible grayish sludge color. So, even though I had just done an oil change last Friday, it looks like I'm doing another for sure.
So, here is where the question comes in. What is the best way to clear all of that water sludge out? Just drain it and refill it? I've also heard to put 4 quarts of fuel oil or diesel in instead of oil, start it up, and shut it off as soon as I get oil pressure. Is that a good idea? What is the best way to clean this thing out as I know water and oil will do major damage to the bearings.

ETA: Almost forgot to mention that this car had just rolled the 12K mark on the odo and has been cursed since the first month I've had it. Within the first few weeks, a deer ran into the side of it and took out the whole passenger side. The dealership couldn't fix it up to my standards and had it for almost 6 weeks. After that, they forgot to hook up the sunroof drain tubes while in the repair shop that lead to the interior being soaked and ruined. The entire interior had to be either cleaned or replaced. This car is cursed!!
Link Posted: 8/14/2007 3:27:49 PM EDT
crate motor..

Link Posted: 8/14/2007 3:28:45 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/14/2007 3:28:59 PM EDT by shop_rat45]

Originally Posted By st0newall:
crate motor..



Not at 12k miles. I'll get the dealership to warranty it first.
Link Posted: 8/14/2007 3:43:42 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/14/2007 3:54:32 PM EDT by sav_carguy]
As far as the water in the crankcase , just change the oil , run the engine for a few minutes , then change it again and you're good to go. No big deal there.

As for the possibility of bent rods , does the engine idle and rev smoothly with no stutter or vibration? If it runs smooth , drive it.

If you're still worried about it , pull all the spark plugs out , get a compression tester and check & record the cranking compression on all cylinders. If any cylinder has a greatly different pressure than the rest , you've got a problem. Generally , the pressure numbers should have a maximum variation less than 15%.

ETA - If you don't normally work on your own car , choose a reputable independent shop and request that they perform the compression test for you and show you the readings. It's up to you whether or not to tell them the whole story , but know that if you do , they're going to try to sell you a bunch of useless shit.

Oh , yeah , one more thing on the water in oil problem----- In most GM vehicles , the engine temperature regularly exceeds the boiling point of water. If there is some water left in there after changing the oil twice , the remainder of it will evaporate out through the PCV system with a little driving.
Link Posted: 8/14/2007 3:50:08 PM EDT
Change the oil, run it to operating temp. Then change it again and you should be fine. I would then change it in about 2000 miles. Remember oil changes at dealerships get recorded so do the work yourself.
Link Posted: 8/14/2007 3:57:49 PM EDT
Cheap, faulty product! Damn over paid unions!

Link Posted: 8/14/2007 3:58:07 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/14/2007 3:59:38 PM EDT by gengomerpyle]
that happened to me before in a old van i had a few years ago. it didnt lock up tho, i went and bought 2 cans of engine fluck and oil and fillter for 3 oil changes. i drained the thick gray oil and put in the engine flush with new oil and filter and ran it for a little while to loosen the sludge and drained it. and did a repeat and then put new oil and fillter for the 3rd time and all was well. as far as your new car im not sure if it will work like that for you, but i guess it wouldnt hurt to try it. good luck
Link Posted: 8/14/2007 3:59:32 PM EDT
man up and repair it or pay to have it repaired, making a false claim is a felony in most states, but if you're going to do so, hurry before GM goes totally under
Link Posted: 8/14/2007 4:03:43 PM EDT
Ignore the engine flush crowd. That doesn't work with water. Get a decent oil filter (NOT FRAM) and run a new fill of a good deisel oil (DELO 400, Rotella T, something like that) through for 100 miles or so, ideally in one drive (that's 90 minutes -- it won't kill you), then drain the oil and refill with what you usually use. If it runs smoothly now, it should be fine.
Link Posted: 8/14/2007 4:04:00 PM EDT
If anyone else does this....

1. dont try to crank the motor because this equals more damage.....
2. get it towed
3. remove spark plugs as soon as you get it home....
3.crank it a few times with the spark plugs out of the engine.
4. replace oil
5. start engine normally
6. replace oil again with new filter
7. does not always work but is the best "first" thing to try...
Link Posted: 8/14/2007 4:06:12 PM EDT
You should have left that fucker in the water and called your insurance company.
Link Posted: 8/14/2007 4:12:05 PM EDT
A) You SHOULD have had the car towed to the dealer, and paid the insurance deductible. This sort of thing happens regularly, and I have seen most of the claims fully covered.

B) You are a damn crook if you try to get it covered under warranty. I make it a point to seek out this kind of crap at work and insure that it is NOT covered.

C) It probably isn't too late to make a call to the insurance company... never hurts to try.

D) If it runs fine, then change the oil a time or two, heat will take care of the rest of the water. A random misfire at idle, particularly the same cylinder, would be evidence of a bent rod or other internal damage. Its anyone's guess as to whether or not it will live. The dealer would most likely just do the same, and if its running fine, then no harm done. If there is internal damage, I'd want a crate motor.

The several engines we have dealt with in recent memory all had a 50/50 shot. Some bent rods so badly they were in an "S" shape, others were cleared out and ran perfectly afterwards.
Link Posted: 8/14/2007 4:12:20 PM EDT

Originally Posted By fxntime:
"Hello insurance company?" Should be your next phone call. If you hydrolock you NEVER EVER try to start it til you pull the plugs and blow out the liquid. Water does not compress.

I guarantee you took 100K off that engine.

It would have sat in that puddle til the insurance Co sent a wrecker to haul it out if it was mine.


Good thing it's a lease.
Link Posted: 8/14/2007 4:17:11 PM EDT
As a GM tech this is what I would do. Change the oil and run it for 10 minutes. Heat will evaporate any residual moisture. Change the oil again and drive it. If there is a bent rod it should run different and mabey set the check engine light . Missfire codes are sensitive and will set if there is a problem. If it does run bad you should call your insurance man and tell him what happened and what you done to it. We see this sometimes inour dealership and most of the time the insurance company pays to repair/replace the engine. If it does run good still I would drive it prob. 500 miles and change the oil again.
Link Posted: 8/14/2007 4:19:21 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/14/2007 4:19:42 PM EDT by jeep450]

Originally Posted By saturnstyl:
B) You are a damn crook if you try to get it covered under warranty. I make it a point to seek out this kind of crap at work and insure that it is NOT covered.


You would be suprised to see what all gets covered under warranty at a dealer, at least the one I work at anyway.
Link Posted: 8/14/2007 4:20:57 PM EDT

Originally Posted By shop_rat45:

Originally Posted By Deej86:
Ironically you build these things for a living Hope you can get this settled out.


Guess I'll have to sneak an engine out in my back pack.



One piece at a time and it didn't cost me a dime!
Link Posted: 8/14/2007 4:21:32 PM EDT
One word.......GTO! Just kidding. Terrible luck. You need to flush the tranny too, maybe the brake fluid.
Link Posted: 8/14/2007 4:30:09 PM EDT
+1 on removing the plugs and cranking it
WD40 on air filter to help dry it out
Drain Oil
Oil change at very short intervals like 100 miles
Fill with quality oil I like mobile 1 full synthetic
Check oil in tranny and in particular the diffs, my bet is the took on water as well, to test this drive for a short time, then check the oil if it looks like baby shit, flush it with oil (gear/ATF depending) then change

I learned the lesson of crossing water, get out a look, walk through it if you have to, its easier being wet and have a wet interior than hydroing an engine

Also heres some water crossing tips from a 4x4er:

Learn to bypass the air intake to bring it up higher in the engine compartment

Learn to cross water with just enough speed to make a bow wake with the front end, this will reduce the ammount of water entering the engine compartment, do not haul ass and splash water everywhere, it will increase the ammount of water infultration in your engine compartment

Keep your rpms constant, do not let then decrease as this could suck water up your exhaust

Lash a small tarp or large garbage bag over the front grill to further reduce water entry

Have equipment to extract your vehicle and tools to allow you to escape your vehicle if the water is way too deep

That and get something with some ground clearance

Be safe, I have seen some dangerous situations with flooded vehicles in water.
Link Posted: 8/14/2007 4:30:42 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/14/2007 4:34:43 PM EDT by dave1w41]

Originally Posted By jeep450:
As a GM tech this is what I would do. Change the oil and run it for 10 minutes. Heat will evaporate any residual moisture. Change the oil again and drive it. If there is a bent rod it should run different and mabey set the check engine light . Missfire codes are sensitive and will set if there is a problem. If it does run bad you should call your insurance man and tell him what happened and what you done to it. We see this sometimes inour dealership and most of the time the insurance company pays to repair/replace the engine. If it does run good still I would drive it prob. 500 miles and change the oil again.


That's exactly what I would do.. If it does not set lights; it will probably be fine. If something is wrong it will start setting misfire lights almost immediately. I would also get the transmission fluid changed or perhaps this would be a time to stoop to having it flushed if it looks like there's water in it. (I wouldn't normally reccomend flushing because it's crap but it's ideal for water in the trans) Just take the cap off the top of the trans and look around for signs of moisture. It may be OK. If there's any sign of water, have the trans fluid changed. BTW; if it's a GTP; it has a dipstick on the trans; not just a cap.

<- 15 years in Service at GM.


DO NOT PUT WD-40 anywhere near the air cleaner or air intake system!!!!!! The oil will coat the Mass Airflow Sensor and ruin it.
Link Posted: 8/14/2007 4:31:46 PM EDT
What bothers me is the air intake is so low that this is even POSSIBLE!
Link Posted: 8/14/2007 4:36:06 PM EDT

Originally Posted By GeorgiaBII:
What bothers me is the air intake is so low that this is even POSSIBLE!


If you drive a car into water deep enough to go over the hood the engine is going to suck in water. This is no defect in the car.
Link Posted: 8/14/2007 4:44:02 PM EDT

Originally Posted By jeep450:

Originally Posted By saturnstyl:
B) You are a damn crook if you try to get it covered under warranty. I make it a point to seek out this kind of crap at work and insure that it is NOT covered.


You would be suprised to see what all gets covered under warranty at a dealer, at least the one I work at anyway.

Every dealer is a rule unto itself as to what gets covered and what doesn't.

The one I work for, we're like that George Strait song - "Just give it away..."
Link Posted: 8/14/2007 9:14:27 PM EDT

Originally Posted By dave1w41:

Originally Posted By GeorgiaBII:
What bothers me is the air intake is so low that this is even POSSIBLE!


If you drive a car into water deep enough to go over the hood the engine is going to suck in water. This is no defect in the car.


The water was no where near over the hood. It was more of a "pushing" effect. A bit like a bulldozer pushing dirt. The air intake is in the front of the car down in the front fascia. I would say it is a bit lower that needed, but I'm not an engineer.
Link Posted: 8/14/2007 9:15:22 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Quintin:

Originally Posted By jeep450:

Originally Posted By saturnstyl:
B) You are a damn crook if you try to get it covered under warranty. I make it a point to seek out this kind of crap at work and insure that it is NOT covered.


You would be suprised to see what all gets covered under warranty at a dealer, at least the one I work at anyway.

Every dealer is a rule unto itself as to what gets covered and what doesn't.

The one I work for, we're like that George Strait song - "Just give it away..."


It also helps when you work at the GM plant that builds the car. It's a bit easier to get a few strings pulled if needed.
Link Posted: 8/14/2007 9:54:58 PM EDT

Originally Posted By shop_rat45:

Originally Posted By st0newall:

Originally Posted By shop_rat45:

Originally Posted By st0newall:
crate motor..



Not at 12k miles. I'll get the dealership to warranty it first.


im gonna guess driving the thing into the water voids the warranty.. its not a defect after all.. you insurance should cover all but the deductible .


All I can say is prove I drove it into a puddle. I think it was a bad intake gasket.




GM dealer: "We're sorry. We can not cover your loss."

shop_rat45: "Why not! You aren't going to honor your warranty?"

GM dealer: "We can't. We are under the understanding that you drove this thing through a giant water puddle and that's the reason for your claim. We don't cover that kind of thing."

shop_rat45: "Water puddle! What water puddle? [Red faced] That's a bad intake manifold! You can kiss my ass about a water puddle!"

GM dealer: [shows shop_rat45 a copy of this thread, just like dateline] "You mean this water puddle? The one that you posted about on AR15.com? Where you kidding when you posted this or did you run through a puddle?"

shop_rat45: [Pissed off look on face] "Awwwww, never mind."

shop_rat45: "I wonder which one of those aholes on the site ratted me out!"


Dude, you just gave yourself away. If you think this kind of thing can't come back to burn you. Guess again. "Our" corporation has had people looking just for this kind of thing to burn employees. I won't go into it, but don't post pictures of yourself with your rifles, etc. least ye feel the need for being labeled a hostle employee and having your ass kicked out the door. It's happened before, it WILL happen again.
Link Posted: 8/14/2007 10:05:43 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Cliffhanger:

Originally Posted By shop_rat45:

Originally Posted By st0newall:

Originally Posted By shop_rat45:

Originally Posted By st0newall:
crate motor..



Not at 12k miles. I'll get the dealership to warranty it first.


im gonna guess driving the thing into the water voids the warranty.. its not a defect after all.. you insurance should cover all but the deductible .


All I can say is prove I drove it into a puddle. I think it was a bad intake gasket.




GM dealer: "We're sorry. We can not cover your loss."

shop_rat45: "Why not! You aren't going to honor your warranty?"

GM dealer: "We can't. We are under the understanding that you drove this thing through a giant water puddle and that's the reason for your claim. We don't cover that kind of thing."

shop_rat45: "Water puddle! What water puddle? [Red faced] That's a bad intake manifold! You can kiss my ass about a water puddle!"

GM dealer: [shows shop_rat45 a copy of this thread, just like dateline] "You mean this water puddle? The one that you posted about on AR15.com? Where you kidding when you posted this or did you run through a puddle?"

shop_rat45: [Pissed off look on face] "Awwwww, never mind."

shop_rat45: "I wonder which one of those aholes on the site ratted me out!"


Dude, you just gave yourself away. If you think this kind of thing can't come back to burn you. Guess again. "Our" corporation has had people looking just for this kind of thing to burn employees. I won't go into it, but don't post pictures of yourself with your rifles, etc. least ye feel the need for being labeled a hostle employee and having your ass kicked out the door. It's happened before, it WILL happen again.


And you are from Michigan... Hmmmm.
Link Posted: 8/14/2007 10:27:36 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Cliffhanger:

GM dealer: "We're sorry. We can not cover your loss."

shop_rat45: "Why not! You aren't going to honor your warranty?"

GM dealer: "We can't. We are under the understanding that you drove this thing through a giant water puddle and that's the reason for your claim. We don't cover that kind of thing."

shop_rat45: "Water puddle! What water puddle? [Red faced] That's a bad intake manifold! You can kiss my ass about a water puddle!"

GM dealer: [shows shop_rat45 a copy of this thread, just like dateline] "You mean this water puddle? The one that you posted about on AR15.com? Where you kidding when you posted this or did you run through a puddle?"

shop_rat45: [Pissed off look on face] "Awwwww, never mind."

shop_rat45: "I wonder which one of those aholes on the site ratted me out!"


Dude, you just gave yourself away. If you think this kind of thing can't come back to burn you. Guess again. "Our" corporation has had people looking just for this kind of thing to burn employees. I won't go into it, but don't post pictures of yourself with your rifles, etc. least ye feel the need for being labeled a hostle employee and having your ass kicked out the door. It's happened before, it WILL happen again.


That reminds me of a friend of a friend who worked for one of the VW speed shops. The employees got to R&D all sorts of cool stuff like ECU chips, air box mods, cams, exhausts, and turbo kits on their personal rides. Anyways, the day came when the motor KaBoomed. They took off all the speed stuff and tried to put it back to stock as much as possible (his original intake manifold was polished) and took it to the dealer for warranty work. The dealer declined the warranty as voided due to modifications (polished intake manifold), and the guy tried to go over the dealer to get it warrantied. No dice, declined. Pay for a new motor, or get the car out of here.

The best part was when the guy went to pick up the car, still with a busted motor, he found on the passenger seat a copy of a import speed mag that had a article written about his employer's speed shop and some new trick parts and how to install said parts. The kicker was the car that the parts were being installed on was the guy's car with his license plate visible in some photos, DOH!!! Seems that one of the dealer's employees found proof of "documented proof of voiding of engine warranty" and left the guy proof of how burned he actually was.
Link Posted: 8/15/2007 1:46:47 PM EDT

Originally Posted By shop_rat45:

Originally Posted By dave1w41:

Originally Posted By GeorgiaBII:
What bothers me is the air intake is so low that this is even POSSIBLE!


If you drive a car into water deep enough to go over the hood the engine is going to suck in water. This is no defect in the car.


The water was no where near over the hood. It was more of a "pushing" effect. A bit like a bulldozer pushing dirt. The air intake is in the front of the car down in the front fascia. I would say it is a bit lower that needed, but I'm not an engineer.


I believe Ford had a slew of claims because they sucked water thru the intake because the air pickups were mounted at or under the bumper. Can't remember if it was the 150 or 250 or which engine but I believe it was redesigned.
Link Posted: 8/15/2007 2:18:55 PM EDT
Shit - I had a motor problem that was in no way related to hydrolock and the dealer tried to weasel out of the warranty work because it had rained really hard the day before it happened and the oil, oil filter, and air filter were brand new. They accused me of running through a puddle and changing the oil and filters out real quick.

Turned out to be a broken valve spring and in no way related to hydrolock, but they said if there was a bent rod or anything like that they would have denied the claim.
Link Posted: 8/15/2007 2:30:26 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Jack_Of_Some_Trades:

Originally Posted By Cliffhanger:

GM dealer: "We're sorry. We can not cover your loss."

shop_rat45: "Why not! You aren't going to honor your warranty?"

GM dealer: "We can't. We are under the understanding that you drove this thing through a giant water puddle and that's the reason for your claim. We don't cover that kind of thing."

shop_rat45: "Water puddle! What water puddle? [Red faced] That's a bad intake manifold! You can kiss my ass about a water puddle!"

GM dealer: [shows shop_rat45 a copy of this thread, just like dateline] "You mean this water puddle? The one that you posted about on AR15.com? Where you kidding when you posted this or did you run through a puddle?"

shop_rat45: [Pissed off look on face] "Awwwww, never mind."

shop_rat45: "I wonder which one of those aholes on the site ratted me out!"


Dude, you just gave yourself away. If you think this kind of thing can't come back to burn you. Guess again. "Our" corporation has had people looking just for this kind of thing to burn employees. I won't go into it, but don't post pictures of yourself with your rifles, etc. least ye feel the need for being labeled a hostle employee and having your ass kicked out the door. It's happened before, it WILL happen again.


That reminds me of a friend of a friend who worked for one of the VW speed shops. The employees got to R&D all sorts of cool stuff like ECU chips, air box mods, cams, exhausts, and turbo kits on their personal rides. Anyways, the day came when the motor KaBoomed. They took off all the speed stuff and tried to put it back to stock as much as possible (his original intake manifold was polished) and took it to the dealer for warranty work. The dealer declined the warranty as voided due to modifications (polished intake manifold), and the guy tried to go over the dealer to get it warrantied. No dice, declined. Pay for a new motor, or get the car out of here.

The best part was when the guy went to pick up the car, still with a busted motor, he found on the passenger seat a copy of a import speed mag that had a article written about his employer's speed shop and some new trick parts and how to install said parts. The kicker was the car that the parts were being installed on was the guy's car with his license plate visible in some photos, DOH!!! Seems that one of the dealer's employees found proof of "documented proof of voiding of engine warranty" and left the guy proof of how burned he actually was.


That's kind of funny, but kind of not, given that VW will do everything in their power to not honor their warranties and the dealerships are almost completely unpoliced and unaccountable. It's a pity. In Houston, for instance, there is exactly one dealership that I would recommend that people get service at. There are two decent ones in the DFW Metroplex. And so on. It winds up being a strong disincentive to get a VW.
Link Posted: 8/15/2007 2:36:43 PM EDT
You want to talk about idiot dealers? My local honda dealer suggests that I get a valve adjustment, alignment, and flush the transmission fluid, along with about 7 other unnecessary services in a very seriously worded letter they sent me recently.

The valve adjustment isn't called for until 105000 miles, the car is a manual transmission, and I had an alignment done at that dealership about a year ago.

Link Posted: 8/15/2007 2:39:16 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Fast_Jimmy:
You want to talk about idiot dealers? My local honda dealer suggests that I get a valve adjustment, alignment, and flush the transmission fluid, along with about 7 other unnecessary services in a very seriously worded letter they sent me recently.

The valve adjustment isn't called for until 105000 miles, the car is a manual transmission, and I had an alignment done at that dealership about a year ago.



My issue isn't the idiots. My issue is the ones that regularly cross the line into fraud. Again, I can recommend one -- one -- VW dealer in a city of 4,000,000 people (and probably 3,200,000 legal residents). You have better luck with almost any other manufacturer. And it's a pity because VW has some wonderful cars.
Link Posted: 8/15/2007 2:43:59 PM EDT

Originally Posted By BURN:
If anyone else does this....

1. dont try to crank the motor because this equals more damage.....
2. get it towed
3. remove spark plugs as soon as you get it home....
3.crank it a few times with the spark plugs out of the engine.
4. replace oil
5. start engine normally
6. replace oil again with new filter
7. does not always work but is the best "first" thing to try...


Yep, sank my jet boat once, did that as soon as I got home and it was good to go.
Link Posted: 8/15/2007 2:51:18 PM EDT
Dip the whole car in CLP, remove and drip dry. Brake cleaner on all non-plastic surfaces then a light coat of CLP over all exposed surfaces.

Wait, what? A car designed within the last few years sucked water in the intake from street water?


Link Posted: 8/15/2007 2:58:27 PM EDT

Originally Posted By PinePig:

Originally Posted By BURN:
If anyone else does this....

1. dont try to crank the motor because this equals more damage.....
2. get it towed
3. remove spark plugs as soon as you get it home....
3.crank it a few times with the spark plugs out of the engine.
4. replace oil
5. start engine normally
6. replace oil again with new filter
7. does not always work but is the best "first" thing to try...


Yep, sank my jet boat once, did that as soon as I got home and it was good to go.


forgot to add the whole...dry your airfilter(read replace) and make sure the air intake is dry....
Link Posted: 8/15/2007 9:47:37 PM EDT
Stupid's expensive.
Water doesn't compress.
Drive slower when there's puddles about.
Link Posted: 8/15/2007 9:49:16 PM EDT
Hope that walmart and fat burger trip was worth it.

That sucks.
Link Posted: 8/15/2007 10:00:58 PM EDT
Sell it on the Equipment Exchange!
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