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Posted: 10/1/2011 10:48:14 PM EDT
http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories/U/US_CLERIC_KILLED_RON_PAUL?SITE=AP&SECTION=HOME&TEMPLATE=DEFAULT&CTIME=2011-09-30-10-34-45


Paul, a Texas congressman known for libertarian views, says the killing of Anwar al-Awlaki on Yemeni soil amounts to an "assassination."

Ruby Rige, Waco, those can be argued as assassinations, this terrorist needed to get what he got. What should we have done? arresited him and took him to trial? Lets put more great Americans in harms way to bring this guy in? Na I like the Drone with the helifire better.
So what do you say? Good kill or assassination?
Link Posted: 10/1/2011 10:55:23 PM EDT
they should have grabbed him when he had dinner at the Pentagon
Link Posted: 10/1/2011 11:33:35 PM EDT
As big of a piece of shit as he was, as an American Citizen, he was entitled to a trial. Now, if he were killed in a gunfight while we were trying to capture him, that is a different story.
Link Posted: 10/1/2011 11:37:49 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Scout198575:
As big of a piece of shit as he was, as an American Citizen, he was entitled to a trial. Now, if he were killed in a gunfight while we were trying to capture him, that is a different story.


He had dual citizenship.

Fuck him

Link Posted: 10/1/2011 11:40:11 PM EDT

Originally Posted By TheFlynDutchman:
Originally Posted By Scout198575:
As big of a piece of shit as he was, as an American Citizen, he was entitled to a trial. Now, if he were killed in a gunfight while we were trying to capture him, that is a different story.


He had dual citizenship.

Fuck him



Did not know that.
Link Posted: 10/1/2011 11:50:05 PM EDT
Link Posted: 10/2/2011 12:00:31 AM EDT

Originally Posted By DrFrige:

Originally Posted By TheFlynDutchman:
Originally Posted By Scout198575:
As big of a piece of shit as he was, as an American Citizen, he was entitled to a trial. Now, if he were killed in a gunfight while we were trying to capture him, that is a different story.


He had dual citizenship.

Fuck him

Regardless, that does not water down his constitutional rights does it?

Dont get me wrong, anyone who declares war on America is a dumphole. But, now we have crossed into the land of double edged swords. OK so we cheer on the death of this guy but shouldn't he (as an American citizen) be captured and tried for treason? THEN punished accordingly? This is VERY murky waters this argument. Does the president have the power to execute an American without trial? apparently so.

Yeah, I have the devil on one shoulder and the angel on the other pulling me both ways on this one. My head is full of fuck on this.



Bingo
Link Posted: 10/2/2011 12:11:13 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 10/2/2011 12:11:53 AM EDT by victorgonzales]
I am on the fence with this one.


It bothers me when precedent is set especially when it is killing a US citizen with no attempt at arrest for a crime.

On the other hand he was fighting for an enemy we are at awar with.


I think the solution should be legislation giving terrorists who fight for a foreign power a jury trial by other citizens. The people decide whether he is no longer a citizen due to his actions and decide whether he should be smoked like a foreign enmy or arrested and executed for treason.
Link Posted: 10/2/2011 12:15:37 AM EDT
Originally Posted By Billmanweh:
they should have grabbed him when he had dinner at the Pentagon


Exactly!!!!
Link Posted: 10/2/2011 12:54:21 AM EDT

Originally Posted By McGap:
Originally Posted By Billmanweh:
they should have grabbed him when he had dinner at the Pentagon


Exactly!!!!

Or Obama could have made him czar of something.
Link Posted: 10/2/2011 5:50:53 AM EDT
He was at war with the US, therefore, he gave up his citizenship.
Link Posted: 10/2/2011 6:01:28 AM EDT
question, was it lawful for the us government to kill Americans who fought for the Germans in WWII?

I say yes, because they were enemy combatants, same with Anwar.
Link Posted: 10/2/2011 6:03:22 AM EDT
Originally Posted By 3Trip:
question, was it lawful for the us government to kill Americans who fought for the Germans in WWII?

I say yes, because they were enemy combatants, same with Anwar.


This
Link Posted: 10/2/2011 6:34:14 AM EDT
Link Posted: 10/2/2011 6:36:19 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 10/2/2011 6:38:31 AM EDT by ttushooter]
This thread will go as good as the last one.

Eta: good hellfire.
Link Posted: 10/2/2011 6:55:28 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 10/2/2011 6:57:50 AM EDT by DTIguy]
Paul has got to be the biggest fucking pussy on the planet. If he won the nom, I'd almost rather vote for Obama.
Link Posted: 10/2/2011 7:05:24 AM EDT
Originally Posted By RupertBear:
He was at war with the US, therefore, he gave up his citizenship.


I agree with RupertBear on this.
Link Posted: 10/2/2011 7:06:36 AM EDT
This thread again?
Link Posted: 10/2/2011 7:07:44 AM EDT
Originally Posted By basicAR:
This thread again?


This.
Link Posted: 10/2/2011 7:08:15 AM EDT

Originally Posted By hkmp5s:

Originally Posted By McGap:
Originally Posted By Billmanweh:
they should have grabbed him when he had dinner at the Pentagon


Exactly!!!!

Or Obama could have made him czar of something.

I hear that a posthumous award is in the works.
Link Posted: 10/2/2011 7:26:41 AM EDT
The issue is not that the guy is smeared over the desert, the issue is that Obama put a "hit" out on him. Effectively with the stroke of a pen the guys Constitutional rights were revoked. Think on that.

Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile
Link Posted: 10/2/2011 7:32:53 AM EDT
Originally Posted By Billmanweh:
they should have grabbed him when he had dinner at the Pentagon


Who? Ron Paul?



Link Posted: 10/2/2011 7:36:31 AM EDT
Good kill. Ron Paul made a serious mistake.
Link Posted: 10/2/2011 7:40:14 AM EDT
This is one issue I totally dissaree with Ron Paul on. I hope this asshole wasn't the only mus..., I mean terrorist killed in this attack.
Link Posted: 10/2/2011 7:45:32 AM EDT
Originally Posted By McGap:
Originally Posted By Billmanweh:
they should have grabbed him when he had dinner at the Pentagon


Exactly!!!!


Yep.
Link Posted: 10/2/2011 7:46:22 AM EDT
Originally Posted By twistedcomrade:
This is one issue I totally dissaree with Ron Paul on. I hope this asshole wasn't the only mus..., I mean terrorist killed in this attack.


Nope, there was another American killed, but that one is not an issue as there was no legal issue with him being killed.

Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile
Link Posted: 10/2/2011 7:48:00 AM EDT
Originally Posted By DrFrige:

Originally Posted By TheFlynDutchman:
Originally Posted By Scout198575:
As big of a piece of shit as he was, as an American Citizen, he was entitled to a trial. Now, if he were killed in a gunfight while we were trying to capture him, that is a different story.


He had dual citizenship.

Fuck him

Regardless, that does not water down his constitutional rights does it?

Dont get me wrong, anyone who declares war on America is a dumphole. But, now we have crossed into the land of double edged swords. OK so we cheer on the death of this guy but shouldn't he (as an American citizen) be captured and tried for treason? THEN punished accordingly? This is VERY murky waters this argument. Does the president have the power to execute an American without trial? apparently so.

Yeah, I have the devil on one shoulder and the angel on the other pulling me both ways on this one. My head is full of fuck on this.



Im with Drfrige on this. I'm very torn.

The guy was a POS, I just Have concerns for the future.
Link Posted: 10/2/2011 8:20:53 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Scout198575:

Originally Posted By TheFlynDutchman:
Originally Posted By Scout198575:
As big of a piece of shit as he was, as an American Citizen, he was entitled to a trial. Now, if he were killed in a gunfight while we were trying to capture him, that is a different story.


He had dual citizenship.

Fuck him



Did not know that.


Lots of American citizens have dual citizenship. What's your point?
Link Posted: 10/2/2011 8:24:16 AM EDT
Link Posted: 10/2/2011 8:27:02 AM EDT
I'm glad they killed him.

I'm glad they didn't endanger US personnel is some bullshit "arrest" attempt just to placate the pussies and crazies.

I'd I firmly pray that anyone, regardless of citizenship, that takes us arms in the name of Islam and engages the United States military and citizens in an act of terror or war, gets turned into a steaming pile of pink goo by a Hellfire missile. I think they could take a chunk of the deficit by selling the act of pushing the "fire" button on a Reaper. I'd love to turn a few of these enemies into smoking holes.
Link Posted: 10/2/2011 8:30:07 AM EDT
So dual American citizens are not American citizens?
Link Posted: 10/2/2011 8:51:16 AM EDT
Link Posted: 10/2/2011 8:51:46 AM EDT
Originally Posted By DrFrige:

Originally Posted By TheFlynDutchman:
Originally Posted By Scout198575:
As big of a piece of shit as he was, as an American Citizen, he was entitled to a trial. Now, if he were killed in a gunfight while we were trying to capture him, that is a different story.


He had dual citizenship.

Fuck him

Regardless, that does not water down his constitutional rights does it?

Dont get me wrong, anyone who declares war on America is a dumphole. But, now we have crossed into the land of double edged swords. OK so we cheer on the death of this guy but shouldn't he (as an American citizen) be captured and tried for treason? THEN punished accordingly? This is VERY murky waters this argument. Does the president have the power to execute an American without trial? apparently so.

Yeah, I have the devil on one shoulder and the angel on the other pulling me both ways on this one. My head is full of fuck on this.



Constitutional rights end at the international border as well as US laws.
Link Posted: 10/2/2011 8:52:41 AM EDT
Link Posted: 10/2/2011 8:56:00 AM EDT
Link Posted: 10/2/2011 8:56:45 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 10/2/2011 9:01:21 AM EDT by nightstalker]
Originally Posted By DrFrige:

Originally Posted By TheFlynDutchman:
Originally Posted By Scout198575:
As big of a piece of shit as he was, as an American Citizen, he was entitled to a trial. Now, if he were killed in a gunfight while we were trying to capture him, that is a different story.


He had dual citizenship.

Fuck him

Regardless, that does not water down his constitutional rights does it?

Dont get me wrong, anyone who declares war on America is a dumphole. But, now we have crossed into the land of double edged swords. OK so we cheer on the death of this guy but shouldn't he (as an American citizen) be captured and tried for treason? THEN punished accordingly? This is VERY murky waters this argument. Does the president have the power to execute an American without trial? apparently so.

Yeah, I have the devil on one shoulder and the angel on the other pulling me both ways on this one. My head is full of fuck on this.



Yes, but a trial for treason would be a similar mockery. Here's my take on the predicament. His passport is revoked by the US for waging war, sedition, as it were and voila, he's the enemy combatant. I think that's somewhat the take of the Fed. He can hardly be a citizen under our own rules if he is not subject to "the jurisdiction" of the US. And to think they sent Martin Sheen out to kill an American citizen (Brando) in Apocalypse......... Sheen must have nightmares.


Link Posted: 10/2/2011 8:58:18 AM EDT

Originally Posted By DrFrige:

Originally Posted By TheFlynDutchman:
Originally Posted By Scout198575:
As big of a piece of shit as he was, as an American Citizen, he was entitled to a trial. Now, if he were killed in a gunfight while we were trying to capture him, that is a different story.


He had dual citizenship.

Fuck him

Regardless, that does not water down his constitutional rights does it?

Dont get me wrong, anyone who declares war on America is a dumphole. But, now we have crossed into the land of double edged swords. OK so we cheer on the death of this guy but shouldn't he (as an American citizen) be captured and tried for treason? THEN punished accordingly? This is VERY murky waters this argument. Does the president have the power to execute an American without trial? apparently so.

Yeah, I have the devil on one shoulder and the angel on the other pulling me both ways on this one. My head is full of fuck on this.



I am not unhappy with the outcome. You're living outside the US, you're fair game IMO. Citizenship or not.
Link Posted: 10/2/2011 8:59:58 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 10/2/2011 10:56:31 AM EDT by bcw107]
Originally Posted By DrFrige:

Originally Posted By bcw107:
I'm glad they killed him.

I'm glad they didn't endanger US personnel citizens is some bullshit "arrest" attempt just to placate the pussies and crazies gun toting 2nd amendment fanatics.

I'd I firmly pray that anyone, regardless of citizenship, that takes up arms in the name of Islam and engages the United States military and citizens in an act of terror or war some outdated piece of paper, gets turned into a steaming pile of pink goo by a Hellfire missile. I think they could take a chunk of the deficit by selling the act of pushing the "fire" button on a Reaper. I'd love to turn a few of these enemies into smoking holes.

Now imagine some anti gunner, by just changing a few words say basically say the same thing you are... That is why I say "murky"

Dont get me wrong... I am with you 110% and glad this guy is no longer stealing oxygen. I am just saying that there is a slippery slope that can be argued down the line. At what point does it change from a "national security issue" to a "violating the constitution issue?"

If they sent a hellfire into Tim McVeigh's home, would you be saying the same thing? Caution, DO NOT ANSWER... it's a no win answer. If you say yes, now we have the government killing an American on American soil... if you say no, then you are a hypocrite.

I dont have the answer






I can't help you if you can't see the difference in seizing a person in some stupid shitty Midwest motel room while he's hopped up on crank and seizing a person whose whole life is based on avoiding being on a radar, surrounding himself with religious fanatics who are willing to sacrifice themselves not only for him but for Allah all while on foreign soil 7000 miles from the US East coast. Posting a couple of cops in the parking lot to nab a guy going to pick up some cigarettes is far different than planning a foreign incursion with ground forces to seize someone who refuses to be seized.
Link Posted: 10/2/2011 9:02:45 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 10/2/2011 9:03:30 AM EDT by sydney7629]
So what is Paul advocating? Putting boots on the ground to go get him? Wait, he's already railing against that everywhere else. How exactly were we supposed to bring him to trial?
Link Posted: 10/2/2011 9:16:05 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 10/2/2011 9:17:26 AM EDT by Molon-Labe]

Originally Posted By chunli:
Originally Posted By DrFrige:

Originally Posted By TheFlynDutchman:
Originally Posted By Scout198575:
As big of a piece of shit as he was, as an American Citizen, he was entitled to a trial. Now, if he were killed in a gunfight while we were trying to capture him, that is a different story.


He had dual citizenship.

Fuck him

Regardless, that does not water down his constitutional rights does it?

Dont get me wrong, anyone who declares war on America is a dumphole. But, now we have crossed into the land of double edged swords. OK so we cheer on the death of this guy but shouldn't he (as an American citizen) be captured and tried for treason? THEN punished accordingly? This is VERY murky waters this argument. Does the president have the power to execute an American without trial? apparently so.

Yeah, I have the devil on one shoulder and the angel on the other pulling me both ways on this one. My head is full of fuck on this.



Constitutional rights end at the international border as well as US laws.

I could see that argument if it weren't the US Govt. doing the killing. By your argument, the US Govt can arbitrarily kill any US citizen who leaves our borders. I don't agree.
Link Posted: 10/2/2011 9:18:20 AM EDT
Paul can go fuck himself.
Link Posted: 10/2/2011 10:39:15 AM EDT
Originally Posted By chunli:
Originally Posted By DrFrige:

Originally Posted By TheFlynDutchman:
Originally Posted By Scout198575:
As big of a piece of shit as he was, as an American Citizen, he was entitled to a trial. Now, if he were killed in a gunfight while we were trying to capture him, that is a different story.


He had dual citizenship.

Fuck him

Regardless, that does not water down his constitutional rights does it?

Dont get me wrong, anyone who declares war on America is a dumphole. But, now we have crossed into the land of double edged swords. OK so we cheer on the death of this guy but shouldn't he (as an American citizen) be captured and tried for treason? THEN punished accordingly? This is VERY murky waters this argument. Does the president have the power to execute an American without trial? apparently so.

Yeah, I have the devil on one shoulder and the angel on the other pulling me both ways on this one. My head is full of fuck on this.



Constitutional rights end at the international border as well as US laws.


Not true, and actually you're expected to continue to obey US laws while abroad (in addition to local laws). You pay taxes and can vote.

Link Posted: 10/2/2011 12:50:29 PM EDT

Originally Posted By bcw107:
Originally Posted By DrFrige:

Originally Posted By bcw107:
I'm glad they killed him.

I'm glad they didn't endanger US personnel citizens is some bullshit "arrest" attempt just to placate the pussies and crazies gun toting 2nd amendment fanatics.

I'd I firmly pray that anyone, regardless of citizenship, that takes up arms in the name of Islam and engages the United States military and citizens in an act of terror or war some outdated piece of paper, gets turned into a steaming pile of pink goo by a Hellfire missile. I think they could take a chunk of the deficit by selling the act of pushing the "fire" button on a Reaper. I'd love to turn a few of these enemies into smoking holes.

Now imagine some anti gunner, by just changing a few words say basically say the same thing you are... That is why I say "murky"

Dont get me wrong... I am with you 110% and glad this guy is no longer stealing oxygen. I am just saying that there is a slippery slope that can be argued down the line. At what point does it change from a "national security issue" to a "violating the constitution issue?"

If they sent a hellfire into Tim McVeigh's home, would you be saying the same thing? Caution, DO NOT ANSWER... it's a no win answer. If you say yes, now we have the government killing an American on American soil... if you say no, then you are a hypocrite.

I dont have the answer



I can't help you if you can't see the difference in seizing a person in some stupid shitty Midwest motel room while he's hopped up on crank and seizing a person whose whole life is based on avoiding being on a radar, surrounding himself with religious fanatics who are willing to sacrifice themselves not only for him but for Allah all while on foreign soil 7000 miles from the US East coast. Posting a couple of cops in the parking lot to nab a guy going to pick up some cigarettes is far different than planning a foreign incursion with ground forces to seize someone who refuses to be seized.
I have no issue with the guy being killed. I believe he gave up his citizenship. The problem here is that THE EXECUTIVE BRANCH made that call on a whim not based on any actual law . That sets precedent for them to do the same to any citizen for any reason.

We either need a jury of citizens to decide who is no longer a citizen under these circumstances or a written law that clarifies when you become a foreign enemy rather than a criminal citizen. You can't just had the government deciding you are no longer a citizen for whatever reason and killing you. IF this happens enough times someday long in the future they could be assassinating political dissenters . It always starts smalll and insignificant.
Link Posted: 10/2/2011 1:03:58 PM EDT
Originally Posted By DrFrige:

Originally Posted By TheFlynDutchman:
Originally Posted By Scout198575:
As big of a piece of shit as he was, as an American Citizen, he was entitled to a trial. Now, if he were killed in a gunfight while we were trying to capture him, that is a different story.


He had dual citizenship.

Fuck him

Regardless, that does not water down his constitutional rights does it?

Dont get me wrong, anyone who declares war on America is a dumphole. But, now we have crossed into the land of double edged swords. OK so we cheer on the death of this guy but shouldn't he (as an American citizen) be captured and tried for treason? THEN punished accordingly? This is VERY murky waters this argument. Does the president have the power to execute an American without trial? apparently so.

Yeah, I have the devil on one shoulder and the angel on the other pulling me both ways on this one. My head is full of fuck on this.



His Constitutional rights were not violated. If a German-American left the US in 1941, fought for Germany and was subsequently killed in a bombing raid, were his rights violated? No. He was on a battlefield, not drinking tea in London or having a cafe in Italy. He was in an AQ convoy in Yemen, a terrorist haven.

How quickly we forget AQ struck the US in Yemen in October of 2000.

If he wanted a trial he could have turned himself in. He didn't want that. He wanted war. Be careful what you wish for because you might just get it. He did.
Link Posted: 10/2/2011 1:05:13 PM EDT
Originally Posted By broken_reticle:
The issue is not that the guy is smeared over the desert, the issue is that Obama put a "hit" out on him. Effectively with the stroke of a pen the guys Constitutional rights were revoked. Think on that.

Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile


No they were not. He was a legitimate military target in a war zone. Or perhaps you forgot the USS COLE?
Link Posted: 10/2/2011 1:06:52 PM EDT
Originally Posted By sydney7629:
So what is Paul advocating? Putting boots on the ground to go get him? Wait, he's already railing against that everywhere else. How exactly were we supposed to bring him to trial?


Psst. Ron Paul has never been consistent.
Link Posted: 10/2/2011 1:08:23 PM EDT
Act as our enemy, and you are our enemy. To kill you is not to assassinate you, but to kill an enemy combatant.


Killing an enemy is much more efficient, productive, and cheaper than it is to drag his pathetic ass to the US and waste countless hours and hundreds
of thousands of dollars on a trial for him.

Sorry, Ron Paul, but you got this one wrong.


CJ
Link Posted: 10/2/2011 1:08:40 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Scout198575:
As big of a piece of shit as he was, as an American Citizen, he was entitled to a trial. Now, if he were killed in a gunfight while we were trying to capture him, that is a different story.


http://www.foxnews.com/world/2010/06/08/yemeni-official-says-constitution-bans-extradition-radical-born-cleric-tied-al/

Yemen Says It Would Not Extradite Al-Qaeda-Linked Cleric Al-Awlaki to U.S.

SAN'A, Yemen (AP) — Yemen would not hand over a U.S.-born, Al Qaeda-linked cleric to the United States because the country's law bans extradition of its citizens, a Yemeni official said Tuesday.

The radical Yemeni-American cleric, Anwar al-Awlaki, is believed to be hiding in Yemen since 2004.

The U.S. says he is an active Al Qaeda recruiter and has placed him on the CIA's list of targets for assassination, despite his American citizenship. Yemen's Al Qaeda offshoot last month released a video of al-Awlaki calling for the killing of Americans.

Al-Awlaki is also believed to have helped inspire recent attacks in the U.S., including the Fort Hood shooting, the Times Square bombing attempt and the failed Christmas Day airline bombing.
Link Posted: 10/2/2011 1:13:34 PM EDT
Did he not become an enemy of the US when he committed such crimes against the nation?

In other news, I too have seen the light. The glow was a different shade of any color I've ever seen. I'd heading in its direction.
Link Posted: 10/2/2011 1:17:58 PM EDT
Originally Posted By 3Trip:
question, was it lawful for the us government to kill Americans who fought for the Germans in WWII?

I say yes, because they were enemy combatants, same with Anwar.


Yep, if an American citizen declares war against America, they lose any and all rights to its constitutional protections.
Link Posted: 10/2/2011 1:20:45 PM EDT
Originally Posted By basicAR:
This thread again?


Yup....
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