Warning

 

Close

Confirm Action

Are you sure you wish to do this?

Confirm Cancel
Member Login
Site Notices
11/24/2017 4:44:23 PM
11/22/2017 10:05:29 PM
Posted: 9/18/2004 11:26:34 AM EST
With a few open breakers

will it be hard to lay some new lines to electrical sockets ???

Any hints on what not to do ???

Link Posted: 9/18/2004 11:41:38 AM EST
It's not that hard to do. you do have to know what you are doing.

a few questions to get you going...

what do you want to do?
what can your current panel handle?
how much load do you run now?
Link Posted: 9/18/2004 11:46:09 AM EST
[Last Edit: 9/18/2004 11:49:48 AM EST by cyanide]

Originally Posted By RED_5:
It's not that hard to do. you do have to know what you are doing.

a few questions to get you going...

what do you want to do?
what can your current panel handle?
how much load do you run now?



It is 100 amps service

what do I use now
14 -100 watt bulbs
A TV
A air conditioner
a micro wave
a hot water heater ------ for short periods

I want to lead into two more 100 watt bulbs

and a plug in socket that will handle 2 plugs
1 for a heater
1 for whatever.

I bought the wire 10 gauge -------- ???
Link Posted: 9/18/2004 11:54:23 AM EST
I'm not gonna walk all over RED_5 if he can help. If not, I'll help you. Will need a lot more info though. Prefer to do it over the phone to save frustration/time. (I have a city and state journeyman's license.)
Link Posted: 9/18/2004 12:02:25 PM EST
10 ga will be fine but how big it that heater (watts/amps). The biggest thing to be concerned with is not supersizing the breaker. Usally the appliance will come with reccomendation for a circuit its to be hooked up to. If your amps of the CB is too great for the heater it might not trip if it gets overloaded= bad/ wire could melt/fire.
Link Posted: 9/18/2004 12:07:56 PM EST
[Last Edit: 9/18/2004 12:09:38 PM EST by cyanide]
This is the heater

a -------------- piss evaporator ??? for lack of better words - sorry

www.sun-mar.com/2002/Excel.htm

No listing on what it is ???

Maybe I did find the stats ??
www.sun-mar.com/2002/excelspecs.htm
Link Posted: 9/18/2004 12:13:45 PM EST
Here's a hint of what not to do: stand in a puddle of water while working.
Link Posted: 9/18/2004 1:03:59 PM EST
I went over and looked at that unit - pretty interesting.

Eh, what the heck.
Got this from the Installation Instr.

Electrical
All electric units are supplied with a power cord and pre-molded plug which connects to a standard (3) pin 115 Volt outlet and powers both the fan and heating element.



I'd bet money the #10 wire you have is large enough. But the specs (link you provided) is a little cornfusing. What you need to know is how many amps does the entire unit you have draw when it all is running; fan, heater, etc.

Also, is it a continuous load, or intermittent? Or is only a part of it continuous and a part intermittent? Continuous means that it runs for 3 hours or more. This is important.

Link Posted: 9/18/2004 1:07:38 PM EST
[Last Edit: 9/18/2004 1:11:23 PM EST by cyanide]

Originally Posted By Backstop:
I went over and looked at that unit - pretty interesting.

Eh, what the heck.
Got this from the Installation Instr.

Electrical
All electric units are supplied with a power cord and pre-molded plug which connects to a standard (3) pin 115 Volt outlet and powers both the fan and heating element.



I'd bet money the #10 wire you have is large enough. But the specs (link you provided) is a little cornfusing. What you need to know is how many amps does the entire unit you have draw when it all is running; fan, heater, etc.

Also, is it a continuous load, or intermittent? Or is only a part of it continuous and a part intermittent? Continuous means that it runs for 3 hours or more. This is important.




Well I do know that --- continuous load

it is meant to run all the while it is in use --- for weeks at a time, basically -- all the time.

Using this chart

Watts divided by Voltage

Example:

2,300 WATTS = 2300w divided by 120v = 19.1 AMPS



My estimate is
3.3 amps -------------- ?
Link Posted: 9/18/2004 1:15:02 PM EST
[Last Edit: 9/18/2004 1:36:50 PM EST by Dragracer_Art]
You want to size the wire to match the load requirements. There are standards for this...

110v 15a breaker should have a 14g wire

110v 20a breaker should have a 12g wire

10g wire is a friggin PITA to work with, and is primarily used for heavy amp loads (30a)...

If you're just putting in a standard electric outlet, 14g wire and 15a breaker is plenty. It will handle most any load you put on it.
The heater gizmo you listed, only draws 2.4 amps...

You can buy one 15a breaker, and a roll of 14g wire... Look for "14/2 with ground"...You will have more than enough capacity to do what you want with that... It will be an indoor insulated wire with one black, one white, and one bare (ground) wire inside.

At the outlet...First, look at the outlet... You will notice that where the wires attach, one side has gold screws, and the other side has silver screws...The black wire is the "common" and ALWAYS goes on the gold screw. The white wire is the "neutral" and ALWAYS goes on the silver screw. The bare uninsulated wire is ALWAYS the ground wire, and ALWAYS goes on the green (ground) screw...

Inside your panel box...The black wire ALWAYS goes to the screw on the breaker. The white wire ALWAYS goes to the ground/neutral bar. This is also where the bare ground wire is attached.


Don't even attempt to use the 10g wire, you'll never get it connected to the outlet properly (due to oversize) , not to mention it's a bitch to work with...(and just plain WRONG for the job)

Trust me on this...
Link Posted: 9/18/2004 1:35:51 PM EST
[Last Edit: 9/18/2004 1:41:50 PM EST by cyanide]
That helps
for some reason I can never figure the "path" of electric .

Thanks now I think I can get it done and done right --- much thanks.
Link Posted: 9/18/2004 1:42:40 PM EST
Just be sure to get the correct brand breaker to match your panel box... The different brands DON'T interchange... (Square D, Seimens, etc...)
Link Posted: 9/18/2004 1:43:37 PM EST

Originally Posted By Dragracer_Art:
Just be sure to get the correct brand breaker to match your panel box... The different brands DON'T interchange... (Square D, Seimens, etc...)



Ok -- good to know. Again thanks
Link Posted: 9/18/2004 7:58:17 PM EST
I haven't worked a house in years; they suck. I work commercial bldgs. I'm no Romex Rocket - only use that shit for stringing temporary lights.


Originally Posted By Dragracer_Art:
10g wire is a friggin PITA to work with, ...


Wrong. I work with THHN #10 all the time. 750 is a PITA.


If you're just putting in a standard electric outlet, 14g wire and 15a breaker is plenty. It will handle most any load you put on it.
The heater gizmo you listed, only draws 2.4 amps...


14 is the minimum, per the NEC, that you can use in a house. There's no way in hell I would run a branch circuit with 14. 14 will work for his application and it is legal though. I'd use 12.


At the outlet...First, look at the outlet... You will notice that where the wires attach, one side has gold screws, and the other side has silver screws...The black wire is the "common" and ALWAYS goes on the gold screw.

You have your terminology wrong - don't mislead him. That black wire is hot and is not common to anything else. Generally, the common conductor at some point returns to ground. The hot is the "ungrounded conductor" - it should not return to ground. The black wire - the "hot" wire - does in fact attach to the gold screw- as you said. Google "electrical definitions," then within those results search for "common conductor."


The white wire is the "neutral" and ALWAYS goes on the silver screw.

Not ALWAYS. In a house, you can use the white as a return from a switch. Telling the guy ALWAYS when it isn't true can cause problems. In this case though, the white wire does attach to the silver screw.


Inside your panel box...The black wire ALWAYS goes to the screw on the breaker. The white wire ALWAYS goes to the ground/neutral bar. This is also where the bare ground wire is attached.

Wrong.
Unless he's in an old house, there should be a separate neutral and ground bar. I don't recall when the NEC changed for houses, but it did. The neutral splits after the service entrance. The white wire goes to the neutral bar and the uninsulated wire goes to the ground bar in the sub panel. Here's a good explanation I just found: experts.about.com/q/1734/3561110.htm


Trust me on this...

Right.

Cyanide - I'm backing out of this one - too many cooks. I'll help via phone or IM if you want. Best of luck.
Link Posted: 9/18/2004 8:28:08 PM EST
Just hire a damn electrician. If you trust these guys to not burn your house down, you are an idiot. I wire stuff every day. You do not have a clue. Hire a professional.
Link Posted: 9/18/2004 8:32:00 PM EST
Link Posted: 9/18/2004 8:37:51 PM EST

Originally Posted By AR-10:
Just hire a damn electrician. If you trust these guys to not burn your house down, you are an idiot. I wire stuff every day. You do not have a clue. Hire a professional.




+1
Link Posted: 9/18/2004 8:50:31 PM EST

Originally Posted By DoubleFeed:

Originally Posted By AR-10:
Just hire a damn electrician. If you trust these guys to not burn your house down, you are an idiot. I wire stuff every day. You do not have a clue. Hire a professional.


People come here for medical advice, bu elecrical advice is bad?



Yeah. With medical advice you just kinda "disappear" from the board, but with electrical advice you can come back and blame people.
Link Posted: 9/18/2004 8:53:16 PM EST

Originally Posted By GoGop:
Yeah. With medical advice you just kinda "disappear" from the board, but with electrical advice you can come back and blame people.


How very true.
Link Posted: 9/18/2004 9:33:04 PM EST
Art is right 10 guage would be fine for your clothes dryer,but a real bitch to get to curl around those small screws that your light switches and outlets would have!

Its not that hard guys just know he has a 100 amp box and if he counts the amount of amps used now he can add up to 100! He may well have that ammount used up now just has a few breaker slots not filled!

If you have a double 15 for your washer,and a 30 for your AC, a 15 for two bedrooms,and a 15 for kitchen and den! Thats ninety amps! You got ten to play with,and if you don't run everthing at the same time youi can excede this!

But Like said consult a doctor(they really know how to wire a house)!

Bob
Link Posted: 9/19/2004 2:31:46 AM EST

Originally Posted By Backstop:
I haven't worked a house in years; they suck. I work commercial bldgs. I'm no Romex Rocket - only use that shit for stringing temporary lights.


Originally Posted By Dragracer_Art:
10g wire is a friggin PITA to work with, ...


Wrong. I work with THHN #10 all the time. 750 is a PITA.


If you're just putting in a standard electric outlet, 14g wire and 15a breaker is plenty. It will handle most any load you put on it.
The heater gizmo you listed, only draws 2.4 amps...


14 is the minimum, per the NEC, that you can use in a house. There's no way in hell I would run a branch circuit with 14. 14 will work for his application and it is legal though. I'd use 12.


At the outlet...First, look at the outlet... You will notice that where the wires attach, one side has gold screws, and the other side has silver screws...The black wire is the "common" and ALWAYS goes on the gold screw.

You have your terminology wrong - don't mislead him. That black wire is hot and is not common to anything else. Generally, the common conductor at some point returns to ground. The hot is the "ungrounded conductor" - it should not return to ground. The black wire - the "hot" wire - does in fact attach to the gold screw- as you said. Google "electrical definitions," then within those results search for "common conductor."


The white wire is the "neutral" and ALWAYS goes on the silver screw.

Not ALWAYS. In a house, you can use the white as a return from a switch. Telling the guy ALWAYS when it isn't true can cause problems. In this case though, the white wire does attach to the silver screw.


Inside your panel box...The black wire ALWAYS goes to the screw on the breaker. The white wire ALWAYS goes to the ground/neutral bar. This is also where the bare ground wire is attached.

Wrong.
Unless he's in an old house, there should be a separate neutral and ground bar. I don't recall when the NEC changed for houses, but it did. The neutral splits after the service entrance. The white wire goes to the neutral bar and the uninsulated wire goes to the ground bar in the sub panel. Here's a good explanation I just found: experts.about.com/q/1734/3561110.htm


Trust me on this...

Right.

Cyanide - I'm backing out of this one - too many cooks. I'll help via phone or IM if you want. Best of luck.




Yup, lets confuse him with all kinds of unnecessary bullshit...
It's obvious by looking at his pictures that he's in a newer house, and he said he had 100A service...

It's obvious that he's unfamiliar with electrical codes and terms. Why stomp all over my post and pick it apart with "know-it-all" info when you know goddamn well it just 'gonna confuse him...

For Christ's fucking sake, he's hooking up one outlet so he can plug-in a 2.4A load...Not a damn welder. He also isn't hooking up light switches, dimmer switches, etc... ONE OUTLET IS WHAT HE SAID. He is dealing with ONE breaker, ONE outlet, and ONE piece of wire.

I kept that in mind when I posted. Did you ???

It's a simple fucking job... Why try to intimidate him ???
Link Posted: 9/19/2004 4:58:25 AM EST


Yup, lets confuse him with all kinds of unnecessary bullshit...

Unnecessary BS? What can happen if you connect the neutral and/or ground of a motor to an old style combo neutral/ground bar, when a computer is also landed the same way?


It's obvious by looking at his pictures that he's in a newer house, and he said he had 100A service...

Nothing is obvious until you ask. If it is a newer house, it's possible he has a dedicated ground for his electronics. That would be nice to know.


It's obvious that he's unfamiliar with electrical codes and terms. Why stomp all over my post and pick it apart with "know-it-all" info when you know goddamn well it just 'gonna confuse him...

Who is confusing him? You gave him bad info.


For Christ's fucking sake, he's hooking up one outlet so he can plug-in a 2.4A load...Not a damn welder. He also isn't hooking up light switches, dimmer switches, etc... ONE OUTLET IS WHAT HE SAID. He is dealing with ONE breaker, ONE outlet, and ONE piece of wire.
I kept that in mind when I posted. Did you ???
It's a simple fucking job... Why try to intimidate him ???


Intimidate him?? That's a good one. There's a right way and a wrong way to install electrical products. I don't just throw a plug in the wall. I'll stick with the right way.

Later.
Link Posted: 9/27/2004 2:02:49 AM EST
Thanks --- Dragracer_Art


You should write how to books ......





Top Top