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Posted: 4/3/2006 8:48:57 PM EDT
So my dad is retiring this year after 28 years. He and mom bought a travel trailer a few years ago and make a yearly journey to the midwest to visit my sister. After 2.5 years of driving his Silverado, he figured he might as well get a bigger truck before he retires.
He had been looking for the last couple of weeks, finally found the one he wanted at the local Chevy dealer. 2006 Silverado 2500 HD, extended cab. He test drove it Saturday, told the sales guy he would probably be back Monday evening. So dad comes home from work Monday evening, goes to the dealership to fill out the paperwork and trade trucks. They told him Saturday that he would be getting a $4500 rebate. He had mom call her brother today (he is sales manager at another local GM dealer) and see if that was a good deal. He said it was a great deal since he had no idea where they were getting that other $1500 rebate. So dad gets all the paperwork filled out, the deal is pretty much done. Then the sales manager comes in and tells dad that they made a mistake and the truck is going to be $1500 more. Not a good thing to say... Manager said it was a mistake, everyone makes them. I think dad told him that he's a pro, he shouldn't make mistakes like that, esp. since he was supposed to have known about the deal since Saturday. Long story short, dad has pretty much sworn off GM thanks to the piss-poor people skills of the local friendly GM dealer. Funny thing is that he bought his current truck from them almost 3 years ago. 
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Posted: 4/3/2006 8:54:14 PM EDT
[#1]
Car dealerships tend to be nothing more than professional rip-off artists.
I haven't stepped foot on one, other than for parts, after a Toyota dealership wouldn't give me the price on a car without signing a contract to buy. (They didn't have prices on the used cars) |
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Posted: 4/3/2006 8:54:17 PM EDT
[#2]
Stand in line.....They are ALL snakes...NO EXCEPTIONS!
roy d.....hates snakes.....at least the ones that sell cars |
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Posted: 4/3/2006 8:55:16 PM EDT
[#3]
This could be a fraud. Bait and switch. In any event, don't do business with such folk.
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Posted: 4/3/2006 8:55:43 PM EDT
[#4]
I've heard that same story too many times. GM just doesn't realize how much damage their horrible dealers are doing to the company. Just be glad he didn't buy the truck since if he did have trouble, GM very often doesn't honors the warranty. GM just doesn't oversee their dealers so the dealers don't care and don't try. Some people claim the UAW is the reason GM is in such trouble. I'd place only half the blame on them. The other half would have to be with the dealers.z |
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Posted: 4/3/2006 9:03:45 PM EDT
[#5]
It doesn't matter the business or what is being sold, show me an honest salesman and I'll show you a poor salesman.
Sales is the art of bullshitting someone into buying something and rthics just get in the way. |
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Posted: 4/3/2006 11:33:06 PM EDT
[#6]
If all the paperwork is filled out at the originally negotiated price and signed by him and by the Sales Manager, it would seem he has an enforceable contract. Lawyers chime in!!
My neighbor had the exact same thing happen at a Ford dealer, and I personally had the same place try to pull the "that ad was a mistake it wasn't supposed to run after last week" BS. Oh yeah and they tried to (F & I guy) sell me their extended warranty, insisting that the 5/50 engine and running gear warranty didn't cover the transfer case and front differential.I could go on... |
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Posted: 4/3/2006 11:41:30 PM EDT
[#7]
I was honest and a very good sales person thank you very much (electronics) |
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Posted: 4/3/2006 11:45:22 PM EDT
[#8]
Being honest will make you more money in the long run, a person will only let you fuck them over once.
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Posted: 4/4/2006 12:02:16 AM EDT
[#9]
Why didn't your dad by it from his brother-in-law?
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Posted: 4/4/2006 12:04:04 AM EDT
[#10]
+1 There are a whole mess of salesman here in our industry section who deal straight, and lo and behold they are successful. The difference? They sell what people want, and they aren't part of an industry that cannot wrestle free from hucksterism. The auto industry is crooked, and refuses to get straight. |
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Posted: 4/4/2006 12:05:20 AM EDT
[#11]
Didn't wanna get screwed? 
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Posted: 4/4/2006 12:14:51 AM EDT
[#12]
I had a pretty good experience buying my car. Took no more than 45 minutes total. A price was agreed upon when I ordered the car, and when it finally came in four months later, there was no bullshit. I did buy the extended warranty, but that was after declining and letting the finance manager offer me a better deal on it. I figure 1K is cheap insurance especially since I was ripping on the car starting from day one.
...and yes, why didn't he buy it from your brother in law? |
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Posted: 4/4/2006 1:28:41 AM EDT
[#13]
Around here most people have sworn off GM not because of sales tactics at the show room, but because of the quality management problems coming out of Detroit. The "Big 3" all are low on quality and have been for quite a few years now.
After 2 F-150's and 2 Explorers I have sworn off Detroit for good. Last year I bought a new Toyota Tacoma and expect it to be a 10 to 15 year vehicle. The quality difference is just amazing. Detroit should be ashamed of themselves. |
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Posted: 4/4/2006 4:18:09 AM EDT
[#14]
Yep bait and switch. F them. My dealer trid something similar. Complete fiction. The finance guy said the rebate was wrong and had to get the manager and saleman. They put on a play abouting making it right and honoring their word. Complete BS to get me to stop asking questions. I made the finance guy answer questions for another 30 minutes. The ass also took a call saying, " OK sweetie I will be out in a few minutes I just need to finish this guy financing." I had that shit. about as bad as what do you want the payments to be? I don't care what the payments are I want to what the interest rate is. |
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Posted: 4/4/2006 4:55:35 AM EDT
[#15]
I was interested in buying a Hyundai Elantra, last year. One of the local dealerships was advertising an offer of additional rebates, plus a gas card good for $1500 in free gas. I called and talked to one of the sales reps and explained what kind of price I was looking for on the car. I did research on Edmunds and Consumer Reports, so I knew what the car cost the dealer, what rebates were being offered, what incentives Hyundai was giving the dealership to sell the car, etc. I go into the dealership, with downpayment cash in hand ($2000) and when I get in there, the sales guy says he cant give me the gas card since I was "getting such a good deal." I just smiled, counted out the $2000 in front of him, watched him salivate for a few mins, then put the money back into my pocket and left. I wonder if they thought it was worth it to try to pull that, after I left...
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Posted: 4/4/2006 5:06:16 AM EDT
[#16]
I have a really good friend that is a Nissan Dealer. Even when I deal with him I still do my homework. So far, I've basically been charged pretty much what the dealership pays for it's vehicles. I agree, car dealers are some shady phuckers. It's not always what you know but who you know.
Family owned so far -  92 Nissan Pathfinder SE-V6 98 Nissan Maxima 01 Nissan Maxima SE 03 Nissan Quest 03 Nissan Altima 03 Nissan Xterra SE-S/C |
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Posted: 4/4/2006 5:20:24 AM EDT
[#17]
I have also had good experience with two Nissan dealerships. Bought a truck back in 01, got a good deal based on Edmunds, $1,500 below their invoice price. It was a left over and the sales man said we have to sell it, you buy it today $5,000 off sticker. My Mom bought a Nissan last year and got it for $500 over invoice. Also, they run and run.
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Posted: 4/4/2006 5:29:56 AM EDT
[#18]
I doubt a Pontiac will pull a 12000 lb. trailer. |
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Posted: 4/4/2006 5:32:43 AM EDT
[#19]
We live in a rent house on a farm all owned by the local, small town Chevy dealer. They have been our good friends for YEARS. We have bought several vehicles from them with no problem ever.
We couldn't be happier with our car dealer. |
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Posted: 4/4/2006 5:36:19 AM EDT
[#20]
With car/truck dealers, remember you have the final say. Your dad should have gotten up and walked. If they wanted to sell the truck, they would have eaten the $1500. There are many car dealers, some good some bad. I always put on extra layers of skin when I go car shopping. You have
to be thick skinned to put up with all their bullshit. The last minute price increase is common. |
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Posted: 4/4/2006 5:53:22 AM EDT
[#21]
I always go in with a folder full of paperwork from research and I never trade anything at the dealership. If you trade they are screwing you somewhere, one end or the other but they are doing it. I have financing arranged seperately and I'll only use thiers if they can beat what I have in hand. I use the internet to force several dealers to give me a quote. Not the MSRP bullshit they try at first but as close to invoice (real invoice not the listed invoice that includes holdbacks) as they will go. I go with the best offer. I tell them up front I'm there for the deal we have discussed and if they add any fees or other nonsense I'm leaving and going to the next dealer. I have and I will do exactly that if they start playing games.
I told one dealer he just lost his shot because he was a liar. He told me they couldn't take internet financing because they take too long to pay the dealer. I asked if they used a third party to finance thier deals. He said yes and we can "match" your offer. I then asked if the Brinks truck arrived a few seconds after I signed the papers or did it take time for them to process the funds as well? He of course claimed they took several weeks less and were more 'stable'. Whatever, I just ended the conversation and went on to the next dealer. I already knew it was a common lie they tell. You can get a decent price but if you come in without leverage they will try to soak you. I hate buying cars and I was dumb about it early on. Got reamed on my first new car. Now thanks to email, and the internet I look at it as a game it's far easier to negotiate and be firm when they are not able to have that shiney new car sitting out in front of you and car fever starting to eat at you. I got my last car a few hundred over invoice and with holdbacks I know the dealer still made 4 or 5 percent on the car. On a good selling models they are going to make money and I honestly don't expect them to sell at actual cost. |
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Posted: 4/4/2006 6:56:05 AM EDT
[#22]
I worked the service end of dealerships for over a decade. I have never been more digusted with humans as a race than when I watched two salesman celebrate over the sale of a car to an old man.
The feeble old man was in his 80's (not of sound mind all the time) and wanted to trade in his 10 year old VW. I wrote the name down of the ONLY salesman I trusted on a card (1 out of 20) and sent him up front to the salesman. On the way to the sales floor the cust got double teamed by two other salesman. When all was said and done they sold him the most expensive car on the lot. They sold him EVERY item they could. For those in the know they " Full Boated " him. I watched these two maggots dance around high fiving and chest slapping each other while I was eatin my dinner in the break room. When they were done dry humping each other I asked what was up ? The descibed in detail how they lead this crazy stupid old man around and how they sold him the 929 S model that had been sitting on the lot for 60 days. They sold him EX Warr, carshield, fabric treatment ECT..... everything. They were going to split the largest bonus in years for either. An old man wanting a Sport model 929, strange ? Did he come in for that I asked ? "NO he asked for a base Jetta, we moved him to the 929 by telling him it was safer and a better deal" one said. At this point I knew it was the cust I sent up front, I asked his name and it was. This man was taken advantage of just as soon as he was robbed by a con artist on the street. To watch these two grown men leaping up and down celebrating was more than I could stand. I went to the GM and told him what happened. I wanted the salesman punished somehow and the cust put in the car he wanted to begin with. I was told and since it didnt happen in service to mind my own beeswax. This from the person who RUNS the dealership. I am no longer in the car biz due to the lack of honestly that is so pervasive. It comes from the top on down so it will not change anytime soon. |
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Posted: 4/4/2006 6:59:10 AM EDT
[#23]
Two questions:
Why didn't he buy it that Saturday? Why didn't he buy from his brother in law. (ETA I see that his BIL sells pontiac, he could still get any GM product for your dad and probably get him GMS pricing.) I sold BMWs for 6 years, nothing worse than a family member calling you to find out if they are gettin/ or got a good deal when you are right there. One more thing GM typically has 4-6 pages of rebates, one for each model of vehicle, so for the Silverado there could be as many as 10 models, probably more. Its easier than you think to make a mistake especially when a manger might be working 5-6 deals at the same time. I'm not trying to criticize, just trying to point out a few things. Bottom line: If I were the sales manager I would have put the $1500 into the trade's value and made the original deal. Makes you a little heavy in the trade for resale but keeps a repeat customer. If I were your Dad I would have called my family first. If your Dad goes to another GM dealer I would almost guarantee they put an extra $1500 in the trade in and offer him the deal he was originally offered. (they won't tell him they're putting the extra money in his trade) |
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Posted: 4/4/2006 7:00:18 AM EDT
[#24]
+100000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000 |
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Posted: 4/4/2006 7:08:53 AM EDT
[#25]
Sounds like my story from over the weekend.
I'm a 3rd Generation Ford buyer, my father and grandfather both were very loyal to Ford, always bought Ford vehicles. I had an '89 Ranger for about 10 years that I was very happy with. When I bought a new truck, I couldn't find a Ranger in my price range and bought a '97 Isuzu. I went looking at Rangers over the weekend and found a really nice 2002 that was loaded, low miles and in immaculate condition. I talked to the salesman on the lot and he told me it was $8995. We went in and got some info on my truck to do a trade, and he offered me $3500 for my truck, which I felt was fair. But doing the paperwork I saw that the price of the Ranger was now $9995, just walking from the lot to the building. I asked him about it, and he shuffled through some papers and said the first price was a 'mistake'. I got up and walked out. I went home and looked online, and I found the EXACT truck advertised on the dealership's website for $8495. The salesman called me asking me why I left, and I confronted him on the 3 different prices for the same vehicle, which we verified with the stock number on the website. He said that if I wanted it for that price, I would only be able to get $2000 for my trade, I told him I wasn't interested. ETA: I went to a second local Ford dealership, with similar bullshit. It's been enough to almost sour me on Ford, who my family has been very loyal to for 3 generations, not that Ford or the dealerships probably give a damn. |
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Posted: 4/4/2006 7:20:52 AM EDT
[#26]
Greedy idiots. I have bought 6 new SUVs and a Z06 vette from Tom Jumper here in Atl. in the last 4 years. I stopped by there last week to inquire about the pricing on the new Z06. Of course the mgr. I have always dealt with is no longer there. They quoted me 10 - $20K over MSRP knowing my previous history with them. They also said the line had already formed for the 07.
When I mentioned that the Z would never stay that high and that that was the same BS I heard when I bought my 02 they looked at me like I was an alien. I told them it would be a cold day in Hell before I paid MSRP much less more for a GM product and told them I would be by in 6 months or so to show them my new Viper, M5 or 6 or Ferrari 430. Assholes!! |
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Posted: 4/4/2006 7:57:27 AM EDT
[#27]
If there really is a waiting list then they don't care. Someone else will pony up the cash (remember the Miata?) so they have no intrest in your lack of intrest. Pricing over MSRP is something I will just not even consider like you said. I won't even consider MSRP. I'm not getting into a car 5 to 10K upside down. No way. |
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Posted: 4/4/2006 8:05:52 AM EDT
[#28]
Mine went like this:
- in spring 2003 wanted a new 4WD Extra Cab Tacoma - went to local Toyota joint and test drove 1, but they didnt have the one I wanted - searched Toyota's regional inventory, found 2 matches I wanted, printed them out - went back to toyota joint, haggled on price of truck and said I want a bill of sale exactly like what I'll see when the truck comes in, with all the delivery charges, etc - got it. Put a $1000 down, waited for truck to be delivered - paid for it, price was what we agreed upon as shown on the bill of sale I got previously - even got a $1000 rebate Finance guy tried to get me to switch to their financing instead of my credit unions, I didn't budge even though their's was a %1 lower, BFD. |
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Posted: 4/4/2006 8:07:12 AM EDT
[#29]
but you never bothered to try, did you? |
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Posted: 4/4/2006 8:47:04 AM EDT
[#30]
Damn.
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Posted: 4/4/2006 8:57:13 AM EDT
[#31]
My Chevy dealer, GORDON in GC Michigan has one price only. They sell all their cars and trucks at supplier rates. Its like 4% over invoice. They dont haggle, its take or leave it. Its kind of nice knowing what you paid is what you paid. Everyone got the same thing unless you have employee pricing.
They were a couple hundred dollars more then another dealership, but the salesmen looked liked like wiseguys straight out of the Sopranos. Also the paperwork was extremely murky and you couldnt heads or tails out of it. So I bought my truck at Gordons. At least I knew I wasnt getting ripped off. |
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Posted: 4/4/2006 8:57:29 AM EDT
[#32]
I've heard great things about Toyota, both their quality and service. My wife just bought a 2006 Suzuki and we were treated really well. If they offered a pickup I would buy one from them just because we were treated fairly. |
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Posted: 4/4/2006 8:58:36 AM EDT
[#33]
I like that policy, there's a couple places like that here. One even offers a 3 day return period. |
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Posted: 4/4/2006 9:10:36 AM EDT
[#34]
I priced the 2004 corvette Z06 I wanted on carsdirect.com and took that price to the dealership.
They matched it and I bought it. This was in August 2004 right as the new C6 vettes were coming out (no C6 Z06 at that time though) so they had some pressure to move their older inventory. Do your homework and stick to the price you're willing to pay - walk if they play games. |
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Posted: 4/4/2006 9:39:13 AM EDT
[#35]
If Toyota made a 3/4 ton pickup with the same towing capacity as the Chevy, my dad would buy it.
But they don't and he doesn't like the Ford 6 liter diesel. And as for why he didn't go to my uncle, as I said before, Pontiac doesn't make anything that will tow 12000 lbs. Or a pickup. |
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Posted: 4/4/2006 10:56:46 AM EDT
[#36]
The new Tundra will be here this summer. |
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Posted: 4/4/2006 10:59:59 AM EDT
[#37]
Yeah, car sales is full of turds and such!
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Posted: 4/4/2006 11:02:34 AM EDT
[#38]
Have him send a formal complaint in writing to the GM corporate office, find their address on the web
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Posted: 4/4/2006 11:32:41 AM EDT
[#39]
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Posted: 4/4/2006 3:20:49 PM EDT
[#40]
Husker - Chev. dealers aren't playing that game on the new Z06.
What pissed me off was I want an 07. I would never buy a first year production car. So if the bastards and idiots at GM already know there will be a shortage of a certain product next year how in God's name can a near bankrupt company not build enough to supply the mkt. demand???? God damned idiots deserve to go bankrupt. WHAT THE FUCK HAS HAPPENED TO AMERICAN COMPANIES????? ARE THEY ALL FUCKING INSANE???? IS THIS SHORT TERM THINKING KILLING THEM???
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Posted: 4/4/2006 3:25:47 PM EDT
[#41]
Never pay any "Additional Dealer Premium", etc. Might as well call it "Additional Dealer Reaming". You're right on the money on never buying the first year production. Version 1.0 of anything always sucks to version 2.0 |
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Posted: 4/4/2006 3:48:56 PM EDT
[#42]
Bought my wife an 05 Toyota Sienna in November.
I went to the dealership and asked for the Fleet Manager by name. Sat down in his office, told him the truth, I am not here to bs or play games. I am here to buy an 05 or 06 Sienna for my wife. I gave him a list of the options that it had to have. He started looking though dealer inventories. Found an 05. Wrote down a number that was $6500 under msrp (about $1400 under invoice). He said how does that look? I said it looks good to me. They gave me exactly what I wanted for or 2001 Odyssey. We shook hands He had it brought in from Mississippi about a week later. I had financing setup through State Farm. The day I walked in I already knew the numbers. Basically I signed a couple of pieces of paper handed them a check, they handed me the keys and off I went. It was about as good an experience as I have had at a car dealer. Rusty |
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Posted: 4/4/2006 4:09:04 PM EDT
[#43]
Yes I do not like to deal with them.
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Posted: 4/4/2006 4:10:22 PM EDT
[#44]
You sure you didn't dream that?
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Posted: 4/4/2006 4:18:17 PM EDT
[#45]
They are forced by unions to pay a bunch of people to sit around all day. Their products are inferior to most Japanese choices so their sales tactics have to get more desperate. |
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Posted: 4/4/2006 5:47:32 PM EDT
[#46]
I've had this kinda thing happen before, and I agree mistakes get made. My comment would have been to be understanding, and agree. This mistake just cost the dealership another $1500. Your mistake, your cost. |
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Posted: 4/4/2006 7:44:33 PM EDT
[#47]
Chev. dealers gouging potential and ex-customers may be the straw that breaks the camel's back. What greedy FN fools.
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Posted: 4/4/2006 8:19:35 PM EDT
[#48]
Haa haa, car salesmen are the biggest bunch of pansies on the planet. When they have to deal with a well informed, strong personality type, like myself; they simply shake my hand and tell me thanks for stopping by. In other words, they arent man enough to deal with someone that knows ALL the tricks of the trade. I just got kicked out of a Mazda dealership in Tyson Corner, VA this past weekend. The pansy sales manager got his panties up in a wad because I already knew there were like $4500 plus another $2500 in dealer incentives for 2005 RX8's. In other words they are not "tough-guys"...they are only tough guys with those who are weak and un-informed. When someone shows up that knows what the game is, they cower like little girls. Pussies....all of them. |
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Posted: 4/5/2006 4:32:29 AM EDT
[#49]
Actually "Mr. strong personality type", most dealers love people like you that come in and know pricing and incentives. You are an easy sale because all thats left to do is determine what a fair profit is to the dealer. And by the way since you know what the game is I'm sure you understand why there is $7000 in rebate on those ragged ass RX8s. |
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Posted: 4/5/2006 4:54:04 AM EDT
[#50]
They are still pussies...all of them....and by the way, I tell them how much "fair" profit is; after I include hold-back & dealer incentives. I didnt work at Toyota Financial Services and Chrysler Financial for over a decade approving floor-plan loans for nothing. I've known about 2500 sales managers and dealership owners and I can say without a doubt, you will never meet more messed-up, greedy, narcissistic types anywhere. But deep down they are all pussies  Yeah...when a little old lady walks in and they get her for MSRP plus "market-adjustment" tag-on...oh yes, then they are big-tough salesmen. They'll walk around like Alec Baldwinn in "Glen-Gary Glen Ross" for a week. When they walk in a wall of a customer who gives them nothing to work on, they cower in the corner and call the guy a jerk because he wont be taken advantage of. Then they lose their so-called-cool and ask the guy to leave. Pussies...all of them. |
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