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Posted: 8/20/2005 4:06:46 AM EDT
I was awakened by a housemate at 4:00am who was freaked out because she saw a man sitting on our front deck tapping his feet in place(loudly) with a hood over his head. The housemate sleeps upstairs and I sleep dpwnstairs. She came knocking on my door (I always keep it locked) saying there is someone outside. I immediately grabbed my Sig 228 loaded with 127gr Ranger T's, my Surefire G2, and my glasses. I then ushered my girlfriend and housemate into the downstairs bathroom and had them dial 911. I sat crouched in a field of view that covered both my front door (where he was sitting), the bathroom, and my back patio door. My heart was racing a million miles a second but I tried to remain calm. The roommate sat on the phone with the police and they arrived within 5 minutes or so. I wanted to run to my safe and grab my AR or 11-87 but I did not want to leave the site of my GF.

I learned that my Sig was useless. It has no night sights. And I has trouble seeing without the aid of my G2. It has been replaced by my G21 with meprolights as my nightstand gun. I think I would feel a lot better if my 11-87 was next to me however.

What did I do right or wrong guys? Any tips? My dogs did not bark, they sleep like they are dead at night. I am thinking of buying some motion detection lights tomorrow? What kind are the best?
Link Posted: 8/20/2005 4:09:37 AM EDT
Keep a natural-pointing (so you dont need sights as badly) shotgun for home defense, along with the pistol.

Kharn
Link Posted: 8/20/2005 4:12:31 AM EDT
Link Posted: 8/20/2005 4:16:54 AM EDT
doesn't really sound like much of a home invasion attempt...


what happened to the guy?
Link Posted: 8/20/2005 4:17:57 AM EDT
In my opinion, night sights are basically useless in a situation like that.

You did fine.
Link Posted: 8/20/2005 4:18:23 AM EDT
Link Posted: 8/20/2005 4:21:45 AM EDT
Seems like you did pretty good, called police, you did not try to be some ninja.

What happend to the guy???
Link Posted: 8/20/2005 4:24:54 AM EDT
Dude was just hanging out on your front porch tapping his feet?
Link Posted: 8/20/2005 4:25:34 AM EDT
I am thankful it did not turn into a home invasion situation. However, I don't see any logical reason why this man was on my property at 4am, sitting on my deck tapping his feet with a hood over his head. That spells trouble to me.

I am familiar with the Weaver stance. I should not of said "worthless", in my case night sites would have been a great aid I believe.

Where do you folks keep your shotguns? I worry about keeping a long gun out in case the house might be broken into while I am gone.
Link Posted: 8/20/2005 4:25:39 AM EDT
Great advantage of 2-story house (IMO) got tossed away when you had the others hole up downstairs.
I'd re-think that. IF the law ever does need to "clear" the place, you'll want to let them take downstairs while you control the 2nd floor... especially if you have 911 on the line. Also, I'd keep an open mind and conduct a little weapon retention/maneuver-in-the-dark drills before I took a blind recommendation from someone else as to what weapon to grab next time. (no flame, intended)
Last, we keep a front door key on a cyalume lightstick to toss out to any lawful responders. Better the law doesn't have to break your front door down ... false alarm or not. Glad everyone's alright AND that you're thinking/planning for next time. Stay safe.
Link Posted: 8/20/2005 4:30:40 AM EDT

Originally Posted By sparkyCG:

Last, we keep a front door key on a cyalume lightstick to toss out to any lawful responders. Better the law doesn't have to break your front door down ... false alarm or not. Glad everyone's alright AND that you're thinking/planning for next time. Stay safe.




Damn, dude - you really think things through.

Link Posted: 8/20/2005 4:39:08 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Waynegro:
I immediately grabbed my Sig 228 loaded with 127gr Ranger T's, my Surefire G2, and my glasses.




You should have mentioned who made your glasses too. No sense in overlooking another potential endorsement deal.
Link Posted: 8/20/2005 4:41:41 AM EDT
IBSCBS - In Before Somebody Calls BS
Link Posted: 8/20/2005 4:42:57 AM EDT
As soon as you light up the Surefire on target you will have no problem seeing your Sig's sights' profile. Practice it sometime.
Link Posted: 8/20/2005 4:51:11 AM EDT
I think someone said this before...what happend to the guy??
Link Posted: 8/20/2005 4:57:28 AM EDT
Link Posted: 8/20/2005 4:59:48 AM EDT
Link Posted: 8/20/2005 5:00:59 AM EDT
The short answer is if you are around to post this you did just fine.
I completly understand the value of night sights for LE use but have always felt for my personal self protection use they are not so importaint. A pistol that I am confident with and have shot to the point it feels natural in my hand and "points" well for me is my greatest asset. You are not going to be seeing or useing any kind of sight at night after the first shot .

Very smart of you to hold back and not play ninja . Trouble can come from any direction and it is good to be prepared for it but that dude on your deck can also be some idiot friend of yours or just some lost drunk.If you go chargeing around all you do is increase your risk (Both personal risk and legal risk. ). Sometimes ofence is the proper action , but a good solid defense will usually control the situation .
What kind of wimpy dogs do you have ? J/K I never recomend overly agressive dogs,I think they cause more trouble than they solve but I would look around in books,online, or with dog trainers and see if there are techniques to train your dogs to "aleart" . I have had some dogs who would let anyone in the house if I was there or not but they would make some noise whenever someone came around .
Some folks close the safe last thing as they leave the house and open it first thing when they get home . Another way is to get a single gun lock such as the police type shotgun rack (car mounted) and mount it in the bedroom closet or such.
Link Posted: 8/20/2005 5:05:16 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/20/2005 5:20:29 AM EDT by 1IV]
For home defence I keep a mosberg 500 in the AC closet. It has a white kerchief tied around the barrel. Loaded with 00, slug, 00, 00, and a side saddle with 00. At night when it is placed in the sholder it allows you to see a big gossamer strip in the barrel for aiming. And it only cost 150, so if it gets stolen I wont cry. all my highend stuff is in a safe. But there is a G21 and my cary gun in the pistol safe in my closet. I can get tho those in 20 seconds if I need them. But that short shotgun is my first destination for arms, because it is between our room, and my kids. And yes, the kid cant get in there. Not only is he not tall enough to reach the handle, but the door sticks to the point where it requires an adult to pull it. Pluss the shotgun is not racked. And it is up above his reach in the closet. Pluss he knows there is a harsh punishment for fiddiling with that closet.

Edit to add that It only takes five steps to get to, and it puts me in a position to cover both entrances. Not a big house.
Link Posted: 8/20/2005 5:08:19 AM EDT

Originally Posted By fight4yourrights:
IBSCBS - In Before Somebody Calls BS


Yep
Link Posted: 8/20/2005 5:10:45 AM EDT

Originally Posted By osprey21:
In my opinion, night sights are basically useless in a situation like that.

You did fine.



I've been in that situation a couple of times, I've had to use my firearm and those n/s saved my ass
Link Posted: 8/20/2005 5:12:04 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Waynegro:

Where do you folks keep your shotguns? I worry about keeping a long gun out in case the house might be broken into while I am gone.



Right beside the bed.
I could care less if a $300 shotgun gets stolen vs. me or my wife needing it in a hurry one night.
I can replace the gun.
Link Posted: 8/20/2005 5:14:29 AM EDT
How was your housemate alerted to this guy being on the porch? Did he knock? Was he banging on something? I don't get how your roommate could have awoken and gone to investigate if all the guy was doing was standing and tapping a foot.

To answer your question, I keep my USP (night sights) in the nightstand and the pump gun underneath the bed. They are the two closest firearms when I am sleeping. If time permits (I hear banging on a door, tapping at a window, etc.) I'll get the shotgun. If I'm awoken by a noise that suggests somebody may already be inside, the pistol is quicker for me to get to.
Link Posted: 8/20/2005 5:17:04 AM EDT
Last, we keep a front door key on a cyalume lightstick to toss out to any lawful responders. Better the law doesn't have to break your front door down ... false alarm or not. Glad everyone's alright AND that you're thinking/planning for next time. Stay safe.

Great idea Thanks.
Link Posted: 8/20/2005 6:00:37 AM EDT
Sounds like you did OK. Did you actually see this guy? You shouldn't have a lot of trouble hitting with your pistol at close range in the dark. Night sights help some but are not magic. Just get some practice shooting in the dark and you will be OK.
Link Posted: 8/20/2005 6:23:38 AM EDT
I don't call BS, but I call very strange situation. What happened to the guy outside? Cops get him, he run off, what?
Link Posted: 8/20/2005 6:31:39 AM EDT

Originally Posted By leakycow:
How was your housemate alerted to this guy being on the porch? Did he knock? Was he banging on something? I don't get how your roommate could have awoken and gone to investigate if all the guy was doing was standing and tapping a foot.



He said the guy was sitting on his deck tapping his foot loudly. That is what woke the roommate up.

Standing by to hear what happened with the guy/what the police found.
Link Posted: 8/20/2005 6:34:47 AM EDT

Originally Posted By billclo:
I don't call BS, but I call very strange situation. What happened to the guy outside? Cops get him, he run off, what?


Fine.
I call BS

Link Posted: 8/20/2005 6:44:18 AM EDT
Keep a handgun next to the bed. I have a loaded pump shotgun in the closet with 00, 000, and slugs in the magazine. Easy to get to if the need arises. WHAT HAPPENED TO THE GUY ON THE DECK??? or are you yanking our collective chain?
Link Posted: 8/20/2005 6:48:20 AM EDT
Link Posted: 8/20/2005 6:50:12 AM EDT

Originally Posted By M4arc:

Originally Posted By leakycow:
How was your housemate alerted to this guy being on the porch? Did he knock? Was he banging on something? I don't get how your roommate could have awoken and gone to investigate if all the guy was doing was standing and tapping a foot.



He said the guy was sitting on his deck tapping his foot loudly. That is what woke the roommate up.

Standing by to hear what happened with the guy/what the police found.



Hmmm... maybe the guy was wearing tap shoes.

+1 to the...

Standing by to hear what happened with the guy/what the police found.

Link Posted: 8/20/2005 6:58:58 AM EDT
same here.....WHAT HAPPENED.....
Link Posted: 8/20/2005 7:02:53 AM EDT
We need the rest of this story
Link Posted: 8/20/2005 7:03:06 AM EDT
If you were covering a hallway(2 directions) would a long gun have been better or worse? As for night sights, you need to illuminate your target for proper target I.D. anyway, so how are night sites goonna help?
Link Posted: 8/20/2005 7:15:16 AM EDT
Do what I did (long story) come out blasting with the AR!!
Link Posted: 8/20/2005 7:17:00 AM EDT
I have an amazing breakthrough technology - store your keys on a hook by the safe.

Before leaving the house you are right there by the safe for the reminder to stow everything inside, when you get home the keys go straight to the hook and you remove the long guns for the night.


Link Posted: 8/20/2005 7:27:08 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Waynegro:
I was awakened by a housemate at 4:00am who was freaked out because she saw a man sitting on our front deck tapping his feet in place(loudly) with a hood over his head.



Not to worry, it was only the SWAT team leader checking to make sure they had the right address before they busted down your door by mistake.
Link Posted: 8/20/2005 7:32:25 AM EDT
yeah, I think I'm going to put in a tentative BS placeholder right here, pending receipt of the rest of the story
Link Posted: 8/20/2005 7:51:02 AM EDT
Link Posted: 8/20/2005 7:57:18 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/20/2005 7:58:55 AM EDT by Paul]
Link Posted: 8/20/2005 7:59:48 AM EDT
Why not blast him with this
Link Posted: 8/20/2005 8:06:45 AM EDT
tag
Link Posted: 8/20/2005 8:07:35 AM EDT
I will not own a fighting handgun without night sights on it.

However, I have been trained, as many others have, to use the profile of the rear of the slide in low light conditions to help aim.

The famous Rex Applegate actually carried a 1911 that had the sights removed... Springfield Armory made a commemorative edition a short time ago... with NO sights at all...

And you are were FOOL for not high tailing it to your safe to get an AR if the opportunity was there...
Link Posted: 8/20/2005 8:18:23 AM EDT
Tag for the answer on what happened to the guy on the porch
Link Posted: 8/20/2005 8:23:38 AM EDT
Get a taclight for that pistol. If he came in, the light would stun him, you could ID him and if necessary shoot him.

That's just me.

Max
Link Posted: 8/20/2005 8:23:54 AM EDT
Agree with the night sights.

I have a HG nearby but my first line is an M4 commando with night sights.
It rest against the wall next to my bed within arm's reach.

I also agree with just turning the lights on. That would have gotten rid of him.

And I agree with holding position and not leaving. Giving up the element of surprise would be foolish and if you left your locale and he broke in then you are trying to find a guy in the dark with tow friendlies who might move. He can shoot at anything. You have to be sure. Anyhow, I would have stayed in place. The handgun was adequate to do the job, even without night sights, afterall you are talking about very close range here. Your advantage tactically: drawn weapon at the ready, you know environment, other friendlies are out of point of fire, element of surprise is totally yours.

I'd say you handled it fine. Having 2 other defenseless(useless for other than victimization) individuals is unacceptable. Time to teach your GF.


AND: WTF happened?
Link Posted: 8/20/2005 9:01:10 AM EDT
I'm not ready to call BS yet and so far nothing sounds fishy but I would like to hear what happened and what the Police said.
Link Posted: 8/20/2005 9:05:55 AM EDT
Just woke up everyone. I did not get much sleep last night. Okay where to start.

It has been hot as hell here for the last few weeks and most of our windows are open at night because we dont have AC. My roomate is a night owl and does not sleep well. She heard footsteps (our front deck is very loud when you walk up it) and she got scared and went and looked out the window and thats when she saw this guy just sitting there tapping his feet. Very creepy.

As to what happened to him? I dunno. He was gone by the time the police arrived. I think he got spooked by us scurring around. I did not want to go on the offensive, like others have mentioned I did not know if he had some of his goon friends with him or not. I did not want to walk into a ambush. The only way he would have got in would have been through the front door or the back door and I was covering both. I did not want to light up my G2 and give away my position unless I was forced to. It was dark and he would not of known my house.

It could of been a drunk, a bum, a robber, or a serial killer. Who knows. I am glad everyone is safe.

Oh, and why in the world would I post a story like that at 4am if it was not true? Believe me I would be sounds asleep.
Link Posted: 8/20/2005 9:40:40 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/20/2005 9:52:27 AM EDT by BillofRights]

Originally Posted By Hoppy:

Originally Posted By Waynegro:
I immediately grabbed my Sig 228 loaded with 127gr Ranger T's, my Surefire G2, and my glasses.




You should have mentioned who made your glasses too. No sense in overlooking another potential endorsement deal.




LOL Thats what I was thinking.

God forbid we should shoot a perp with Winchester White Box.!



You must have done the right thing.
Link Posted: 8/20/2005 9:44:27 AM EDT

Originally Posted By BillofRights:

Originally Posted By Hoppy:

Originally Posted By Waynegro:
I immediately grabbed my Sig 228 loaded with 127gr Ranger T's, my Surefire G2, and my glasses.




You should have mentioned who made your glasses too. No sense in overlooking another potential endorsement deal.




LOL Thats what I was thinking.

God forbid we should shoot a perp with Winchester White Box.!





Hahahh indeed.
Link Posted: 8/20/2005 9:47:23 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Waynegro:
I was awakened by a housemate at 4:00am who was freaked out because she saw a man sitting on our front deck tapping his feet in place(loudly) with a hood over his head. The housemate sleeps upstairs and I sleep dpwnstairs. She came knocking on my door (I always keep it locked) saying there is someone outside. I immediately grabbed my Sig 228 loaded with 127gr Ranger T's, my Surefire G2, and my glasses. I then ushered my girlfriend and housemate into the downstairs bathroom and had them dial 911. I sat crouched in a field of view that covered both my front door (where he was sitting), the bathroom, and my back patio door. My heart was racing a million miles a second but I tried to remain calm. The roommate sat on the phone with the police and they arrived within 5 minutes or so. I wanted to run to my safe and grab my AR or 11-87 but I did not want to leave the site of my GF.

I learned that my Sig was useless. It has no night sights. And I has trouble seeing without the aid of my G2. It has been replaced by my G21 with meprolights as my nightstand gun. I think I would feel a lot better if my 11-87 was next to me however.

What did I do right or wrong guys? Any tips? My dogs did not bark, they sleep like they are dead at night. I am thinking of buying some motion detection lights tomorrow? What kind are the best?



One option is to utilize your light by holding it with your off hand on the side of your head. If you extend your gun hand out, when you pulse the light, your sights will becomre visible, as will your target.

Be prepared to pulse the light to aquire your target, body shift, and, re-pulse/fire if need be.

This is, of course, if you need to utilize this technique at all. Ideally, you're more familiar with your turf than the perp is.

btw, sounds like the 'perp" might've been an ex bf or somthing. Kinda odd.
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