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Posted: 1/3/2007 1:32:16 PM EDT
Several days ago I emailed corporate WalMart to ask why they discontinued sales of Winchester whitebox .223 fmj.  The guy that called me said that they quit carrying it but had tried to special order some for me. They(WalMart) claimed that Winchester told him that all of the .223 fmj was going to the government for the war effort. Anybody know if this is true?
Link Posted: 1/3/2007 1:34:40 PM EDT
Right, want to buy a bridge ?
Link Posted: 1/3/2007 1:35:02 PM EDT
No, it isn't true. The military uses 5.56, higher pressure than .223, and they don't get it from Winchester.
Link Posted: 1/3/2007 1:35:08 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Pangea:
Several days ago I emailed corporate WalMart to ask why they discontinued sales of Winchester whitebox .223 fmj.  The guy that called me said that they quit carrying it but had tried to special order some for me. They(WalMart) claimed that Winchester told him that all of the .223 fmj was going to the government for the war effort. Anybody know if this is true?




My local WM always has a pissload of UMC 223. in stock.
Link Posted: 1/3/2007 1:35:15 PM EDT
WalMart, ammo shortage because of war...

Link Posted: 1/3/2007 1:36:19 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/3/2007 1:37:11 PM EDT by AcidGambit]
Probably not all of it, but Winchester probably could not meet a basic quantity level that Wal-Mart would require. The gov't is buying ammo from outside sources, but mostly it goes toward trainning.

ie: Wal-Mart isn't going to jump over 10 cases like Natchez or the like would.

5.56mm would be going to the gov't, not .223.
Link Posted: 1/3/2007 1:36:35 PM EDT
weird.  I just emailed them yesterday. Wonder if they are going to call me.

I complained about the wwb not in stock and reamed them for dropping guns in the West Side Idaho Falls location.

Link Posted: 1/3/2007 1:38:31 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/3/2007 1:49:05 PM EDT by callgood]
Maybe so. Midway says, "Out of Stock- No Backorder" for all the FMJs.

kyimports- sold out.

the-armory.com- sold out.
Link Posted: 1/3/2007 1:38:35 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Kylaer_:
No, it isn't true. The military uses 5.56, higher pressure than .223, and they don't get it from Winchester.


Actually, Winchester does produce 5.56mm ammo for the military. That's why we can get Winchester Q3131 (M193) and M855 at times.

While Lake City is the official ammo plant, operated by Federal, they do contract to other ammuntion makers as well when they need more.

So while Winchester isn't making .223 for the military, they are making 5.56mm. And the demand for it due to the war may mean that's what area they are focusing on at this time. The military.  
Link Posted: 1/3/2007 1:38:52 PM EDT

Originally Posted By crashburnrepeat:
weird.  I just emailed them yesterday. Wonder if they are going to call me.

I complained about the wwb not in stock and reamed them for dropping guns in the West Side Idaho Falls location.



We need a fire mission on the WWB.
Link Posted: 1/3/2007 2:22:30 PM EDT
You're talking about the stuff that was getting made by IMI in Israel?  You know, that little country that just had a little war and is being threatened again with a really nasty time by the Iranians.  


And somehow, the machines that made the Ammo for Winchester are busy on other things?  and you can't figure out why you aren't getting any of the ammo coming off those machines?  The IMI machines, as in Israel Military Industries?


hmmm, I think I know why it ain't getting into the Wal-Marts.
Link Posted: 1/3/2007 2:26:03 PM EDT

Originally Posted By PaDanby:
You're talking about the stuff that was getting made by IMI in Israel?  You know, that little country that just had a little war and is being threatened again with a really nasty time by the Iranians.  


And somehow, the machines that made the Ammo for Winchester are busy on other things?  and you can't figure out why you aren't getting any of the ammo coming off those machines?  The IMI machines, as in Israel Military Industries?


hmmm, I think I know why it ain't getting into the Wal-Marts.


+1

I doubt military ammunition plants in Isreal are concerned with Wal-Mart sales in the United States right now.
Link Posted: 1/3/2007 5:04:09 PM EDT
Walmart sux.......
Link Posted: 1/3/2007 5:10:25 PM EDT
In before the
"Privatecompaniesarenotobservingourseconda­mmendmentrightsbyonlyproducing-
productsforthemilitaryandnotciviliansandt­heyshouldhiremorepeopleiftheycantkeep-
upwithdemand!"

Link Posted: 1/3/2007 5:13:04 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/3/2007 5:21:31 PM EDT by brasidas]
The GI WCC headstamp stuff is made by Winchester.  Winchester produces ammo for us and the military, which could account for why their civilian ammo has dried up.  Three years ago IMI and Winchester were each awarded huge DoD contracts for 5.56 ammo, and that is when our ammo troubles started.
Link Posted: 1/3/2007 5:15:43 PM EDT

Originally Posted By PaDanby:
You're talking about the stuff that was getting made by IMI in Israel?  



that was q3131a, and we can't get that here anymore. We buy q3131, it's made here and it is bought by the gov; The production is geared toward m855 right now.
Link Posted: 1/3/2007 5:36:54 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/3/2007 5:38:24 PM EDT by NonConformist]
Yes and No


That particular ammo is not being produced because they are trying to keep the .mil in small-arms ammo, so all their effort is going to fill orders with them

This is what happens when we close armories, we used to have like 7 IIRC
Link Posted: 1/3/2007 5:46:50 PM EDT
XM193 will become a thing of the past someday, it'll still be made, but it'll be made in very small runs. No sense to run that on a scamp type machine.

With every ammo maker running ten tenths, sooner or later they will have to slow down to do some maintainence past what they are probably doing now.

Think refineries....................I'd bet maintainance is being deferred to keep ammo production running full speed ahead.
Link Posted: 1/3/2007 5:53:41 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Sgt-2434:
Walmart sux.......


A really brilliant comment that shows someone has not been reading or doesn't care and just wanted to throw an assinine comment in.
Link Posted: 1/3/2007 6:12:26 PM EDT
At least someone took the time to respond to you, even if their answer is bullshit.
Most large companies give you the automated response about your "concerns". Just like what happens when you write to your senator.
Link Posted: 1/3/2007 6:18:23 PM EDT
I heard that training centers buy .223 from outside vendors.

I always thought this was odd, but never cared to look into it.
Link Posted: 1/3/2007 6:18:38 PM EDT

Originally Posted By just-mike:
At least someone took the time to respond to you, even if their answer is bullshit.
Most large companies give you the automated response about your "concerns". Just like what happens when you write to your senator.


Actually, it may not be bullshit.  Some of the answers given in this thread seem to be spot on.
Link Posted: 1/3/2007 6:27:22 PM EDT
With WalMart, why are you assuming its our government and war effort and not the Chinese one?  They seem to be cool with helping the ChiComs with everything else.
Link Posted: 1/3/2007 6:36:45 PM EDT

Originally Posted By LARRYG:

Originally Posted By just-mike:
At least someone took the time to respond to you, even if their answer is bullshit.
Most large companies give you the automated response about your "concerns". Just like what happens when you write to your senator.


Actually, it may not be bullshit.  Some of the answers given in this thread seem to be spot on.

True enough. I'm just impressed that a real person called him back, and even gave the impression that he tried to special order the ammo for him. Love Wally world or hate it,  that sure sounds like customer service to me.
Link Posted: 1/3/2007 6:40:07 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Screechjet1:
With WalMart, why are you assuming its our government and war effort and not the Chinese one?  They seem to be cool with helping the ChiComs with everything else.


Another completely irrelevant remark.
Link Posted: 1/3/2007 6:40:47 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Screechjet1:
With WalMart, why are you assuming its our government and war effort and not the Chinese one?  They seem to be cool with helping the ChiComs with everything else.



Oh for christ sake, I am so sick and tired of 'brilliant' people posting that, LOOK at the products in ANY big store chain, its all the same, yeah im sure wally world is diverting all its ammo to ChiComs What a fuggin' asshat, try and come up w/ something original for once

Its beacuse the .mil is eating up ammo and LC cannot keep up with demand PERIOD!
Link Posted: 1/3/2007 6:41:24 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Kylaer_:
No, it isn't true. The military uses 5.56, higher pressure than .223, and they don't get it from Winchester.


Not technically true, Winchester was contracted by the .GOV recently (last couple years) to provide several million (not much really) rounds of 5.56 M855 ammo for military operations because LC cannot keep up with demand.  the military cases with WCC on them are from Win.
Link Posted: 1/3/2007 6:42:51 PM EDT
I can almost garuntee you that Walmart is not out of ammo due to the war.
Link Posted: 1/3/2007 6:45:44 PM EDT

Originally Posted By just-mike:

Most large companies give you the automated response about your "concerns". Just like what happens when you write to your senator.


Not when you send death threats.  




j/k
Link Posted: 1/3/2007 6:46:12 PM EDT

Originally Posted By opti12206:
I can almost garuntee you that Walmart is not out of ammo due to the war.



There not out of ammo, just WWB .223
Link Posted: 1/3/2007 6:57:34 PM EDT
This may be considered small scale but think of it multilied by 1000's of Law Enforcement agencies around the Country.

My Department has about 400+ Deputies along with about 500 Detention Officers.
Approximately 150 Deputies are rifle trained and qualified.  We shoot 4 times a year.
The Rangemaster orders around 30,000- 50,000 rounds of Winchester .556 Q3131A 55 grain FMJ at a time.

We practice with and carry the same ammo on duty.  A little over a year ago he was told by a big distributor that it was unavailable,  It is part of his job to keep us in ammo so he ordered what he could.  We trained and qualified with .223 Q3131 for a couple range go rounds and were not impressed with the quality or accuracy.

The Rangemaster had wanted to go to TAP or something else for awhile and secured a source for Winchester Supreme Ballistic SilverTips in 55 grain.  That is now our official issue ammo and is really good stuff.  Apprently there is not a problem getting the BST ammo.

Now I am not a big believer of "the sky is falling" we can't make enough ammo stuff.
However I do believe that companies like Winchester are having some difficulty keeping up with ammo production because of the wars going on and the need to keep certain groups well stocked with ammo.  Whether it is the U.S. Military or other groups they need to be well supplied.

Now if you have 1000's of L.E. agencies trying to keep thier Officers shooting you can see where there might be a slight problem.

There could also be some people trying to make everyone think there is a shortage so they can up the prices and make more money.
Link Posted: 1/3/2007 7:45:56 PM EDT

Originally Posted By 21BoomCBTENGR:

Originally Posted By Kylaer_:
No, it isn't true. The military uses 5.56, higher pressure than .223, and they don't get it from Winchester.


Not technically true, Winchester was contracted by the .GOV recently (last couple years) to provide several million (not much really) rounds of 5.56 M855 ammo for military operations because LC cannot keep up with demand.  the military cases with WCC on them are from Win.


Ah, didn't know that. I thought it was all Federal/Lake City. I stand corrected.
Link Posted: 1/3/2007 8:49:26 PM EDT
We are paying the price for the 1990s when Clinton closed 4 of the 5 ammo plants and cut the stocks of small arms ammo to the bone.  We started out the war on terror way in the hole for ammo stocks.

GunLvr
Link Posted: 1/3/2007 8:52:18 PM EDT
My local Wally World is going to discontinue all sales of firearms and ammo come March/April.
Link Posted: 1/3/2007 9:09:52 PM EDT
Link Posted: 1/4/2007 5:28:20 AM EDT

Originally Posted By GunLvrPHD:
We are paying the price for the 1990s when Clinton closed 4 of the 5 ammo plants and cut the stocks of small arms ammo to the bone.  We started out the war on terror way in the hole for ammo stocks.

GunLvr



I knew about the plants he closed but didnt know he cut our supply of ammo as well.

One more reason top hate him even more
Link Posted: 1/4/2007 5:38:13 AM EDT
Why would they lie to you about it, and why else would they stop carrying it?

There are guys here from all over the country that go apeshit buying WWB .223 at Walmart when it is available.

I cleared the .223 shelf at my local Walmart a couple of times.

If their answer is bullshit, I'd like to hear another logical explanation.
Link Posted: 1/4/2007 5:41:35 AM EDT

Originally Posted By 21BoomCBTENGR:

Originally Posted By Kylaer_:
No, it isn't true. The military uses 5.56, higher pressure than .223, and they don't get it from Winchester.


Not technically true, Winchester was contracted by the .GOV recently (last couple years) to provide several million (not much really) rounds of 5.56 M855 ammo for military operations because LC cannot keep up with demand.  the military cases with WCC on them are from Win.


Yep. I recall that Winchester and IMI were contracted a couple years ago to provide the military ammo.

It was a big stink back then because there was a controversy of killing muslims with "Jewish Ammo".


Link Posted: 1/4/2007 5:46:03 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/4/2007 5:47:33 AM EDT by VoodooChile]
I've been to 2 Academy Sports in the past week and they are completely out of Winchester .223 as well..not one box..Maybe I'll give them a call and see what their explanation is.
Link Posted: 1/4/2007 6:21:38 AM EDT
When I was on vacation last week I saw some .223WWB on the shelf at Walmart in pella Iowa, for those who want it in the area
Link Posted: 1/4/2007 6:29:51 AM EDT
I've always been confused by the difference between .223 and 5.56mm. I know the 5.56mm is higher pressure and you can shoot .223 in a 5.56mm gun, but (supposedly) not the other way around.

But what's the point? Why have a higher pressure in what is essentially the exact same cartridge? What does it accomplish? If it's an improvement over stock .223, why not just make all .223 guns capable of handling 5.56mm pressures and leave it at that?
Link Posted: 1/4/2007 8:40:10 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/4/2007 9:23:44 AM EDT by BillTheButcher]
the prices on ammo at the gun show will be higher this weekend, and the dealers will say it's because of the war in Iraq
Link Posted: 1/4/2007 8:44:14 AM EDT

Originally Posted By opti12206:
I can almost garuntee you that Walmart is not out of ammo due to the war.


Oh, you can ALMOST guarantee this, huh.  How about backing it up.
Link Posted: 1/4/2007 8:47:32 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Screechjet1:
With WalMart, why are you assuming its our government and war effort and not the Chinese one?  They seem to be cool with helping the ChiComs with everything else.
    So . WalMart is sending ammo to the Chinese ?  Put a lot of thought into that one , eh ?
Link Posted: 1/4/2007 8:49:00 AM EDT
It is good to be a Ammo whore




Just opinion
Link Posted: 1/4/2007 9:05:12 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/4/2007 9:06:15 AM EDT by sixgunsblazing]

Originally Posted By Hiwathl:
It is good to be a Ammo whore

img.photobucket.com/albums/v465/Hiwathl/DSC00633.jpg


Just opinion

You call yourself an ammo whore?


Link Posted: 1/4/2007 9:19:12 AM EDT

Originally Posted By sixgunsblazing:

Originally Posted By Hiwathl:
It is good to be a Ammo whore

img.photobucket.com/albums/v465/Hiwathl/DSC00633.jpg


Just opinion

You call yourself an ammo whore?


www.nwequipshow.com/cell/pic23.jpg


Way to go go Dude! the last time I took stock was down to around 13,000+ rds. of various calibers.

I guess my Ammo whore Fu is weak
Link Posted: 1/4/2007 9:29:22 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Hiwathl:

Originally Posted By sixgunsblazing:

Originally Posted By Hiwathl:
It is good to be a Ammo whore

img.photobucket.com/albums/v465/Hiwathl/DSC00633.jpg


Just opinion

You call yourself an ammo whore?


www.nwequipshow.com/cell/pic23.jpg


Way to go go Dude! the last time I took stock was down to around 13,000+ rds. of various calibers.

I guess my Ammo whore Fu is weak


Including the 40 rounds I got for Christmas, I have 110 rounds of 7.62x39mm.
Link Posted: 1/4/2007 10:12:43 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Swindle1984:
I've always been confused by the difference between .223 and 5.56mm. I know the 5.56mm is higher pressure and you can shoot .223 in a 5.56mm gun, but (supposedly) not the other way around.

But what's the point? Why have a higher pressure in what is essentially the exact same cartridge? What does it accomplish? If it's an improvement over stock .223, why not just make all .223 guns capable of handling 5.56mm pressures and leave it at that?



One is loaded to military specification(5.56 higher pressure=higher velocity=better stopping of haji/commie) The ar round is supposed to be at a certain velocity to be 'effective'.

I have NO idead however what purpose .223 has, it should all be 5.56 IMO
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