It hit me yesterday. Apart from the fact that at least one federal appellate court has recognized the President's authority to order wiretaps of communications involving US citizens for national security purposes, the alarm is just plain nuts.

It's 1942. The OSS and Naval Intelligence believe that you are telephoning a Japanese Imperial Navy intelligence officer on Okinawa to inform him of ship movements at a naval base near your home. The people who are up in arms over the NSA intercepts believe that it would be improper for the OSS to tap your phone without court approval.

Some people are idiots.

I'm staying out of any threads marked "NSA"

Quoted: It hit me yesterday. Apart from the fact that at least one federal appellate court has recognized the President's authority to order wiretaps of communications involving US citizens for national security purposes, the alarm is just plain nuts. It's 1942. The OSS and Naval Intelligence believe that you are telephoning a Japanese Imperial Navy intelligence officer on Okinawa to inform him of ship movements at a naval base near your home. The people who are up in arms over the NSA intercepts believe that it would be improper for the OSS to tap your phone without court approval. Some people are idiots.

Actually . . . everyone who has been paying attention knows that the NSA has been listening in on domestic calls and such for a very long time.  It only makes the news when they feel like trying to stick it to Bush.

The difference is that today's technology makes it easier to monitor a larger volume of communication than in the past. Large Databases and Data Mining make it easier for people to collect, retrieve and organize information on a larger group of people than would have been possible during WWII.

As for Terrorism, well, the world (including the United States) has always had it. Plenty of incidents of bombings and assassinations.

The main difference (for terrorists) is that with today's technology, it is easier to come up with a serious biological agent than in the past, as well as producing Binary Chemical Weapons.

Over time, the balance of power has clearly shifted in favor of various Government's and their agencies.

Survelliance isn't necessarily a bad thing, unless the people who have access to data misuse it. And start preying upon innocent people.

Which is the case as described in George Orwell's Fictional piece: 1984.

Quoted: Some people Most liberals are idiots.

Fixed it for ya!

Quoted: The difference is that today's technology makes it easier to monitor a larger volume of communication than in the past. Large Databases and Data Mining make it easier for people to collect, retrieve and organize information on a larger group of people than would have been possible during WWII. ... Over time, the balance of power has clearly shifted in favor of various Government's and their agencies. Survelliance isn't necessarily a bad thing, unless the people who have access to data misuse it. And start preying upon innocent people. Which is the case as described in George Orwell's Fictional piece: 1984.

However, anyone who wants privacy can get it nowadays -- IIRC, Skype uses encryption so that your "internet phone calls" are untappable, and if they don't (or if you don't trust them, which I don't), there definitely are others which will do that for you.  The genie has been out of the bottle since Phil Zimmerman put PGP together.  Of course, there's always the risk that the feds have better mathematicians than the rest of us. . . .

What need is there to encrypt your phone calls anyway? That alone would make you a person of interest.

Quoted: What need is there to encrypt your phone calls anyway? That alone would make you a person of interest.

privacy, ever heard of it?
here are some reasons:
#1 protect sensitive information (like SSN, birthdate, etc)
#2 protect secrets (prevent industrrial espionage)
#3 I do not need a fucking reason, we are supposed to be free, this is the USA

Echelon AND the black magic lantern



You are being watched, no matter who you are. And every bit of information you produce is captured. Which is UnConstitutional, but it's happening. There ARE vans that DO drive around large cities that listen in on phone calls, so they may capture a terrorist at work, hopefully. It happens everyday.

If you DON'T think this kind of thing is happening, you have your head buried in the sand. Now comes the reality, if you aren't "doing" anything wrong, all that data they collect on you, just sits. Some people will say, "I don't have anything to worry about if I'm not doing anything wrong." Oh yeah, right! What happens when you are listed as a Republican and the administration and congress are all democratic? Huh?

The government CAN do what they are doing and DO IT RIGHT. And STILL protect our liberties. But they DON'T want to do that. The Constitution is just a piece of paper to them...like it is to some here.

What the NSA is doing is wrong, but they could make it right if there was some oversight and they had a full time judge to oversee it and swear a warrant out for people they have cause or suspiscion as terrorists.


How hard is that?

Quoted: #3 I do not need a fucking reason, we are supposed to be free, this is the USA

This point is lost on most of the posters here.

We should all be concerned when then NSA is tapping our phones and monitoring the internet. My only problem with the whole thing is the lack of oversight.

Quoted: Echelon AND the black magic lantern You are being watched, no matter who you are. And every bit of information you produce is captured. Which is UnConstitutional, but it's happening. There ARE vans that DO drive around large cities that listen in on phone calls, so they may capture a terrorist at work, hopefully. It happens everyday. If you DON'T think this kind of thing is happening, you have your head buried in the sand. Now comes the reality, if you aren't "doing" anything wrong, all that data they collect on you, just sits. Some people will say, "I don't have anything to worry about if I'm not doing anything wrong." Oh yeah, right! What happens when you are listed as a Republican and the administration and congress are all democratic? Huh? The government CAN do what they are doing and DO IT RIGHT. And STILL protect our liberties. But they DON'T want to do that. The Constitution is just a piece of paper to them...like it is to some here. What the NSA is doing is wrong, but they could make it right if there was some oversight and they had a full time judge to oversee it and swear a warrant out for people they have cause or suspiscion as terrorists. How hard is that?

It really isn't very hard, but for whatever reason "they" don't want to do it right.  

And this reminds me of the motto I made up for the maintenance crew at work. "If it ain't broke, fix it until it is." Seconded by "If it's broke, put it off until somebody else fixes it." Sometimes I really love those guys.

Quoted: #3 I do not need a fucking reason, we are supposed to be free, this is the USA

Yeah, and I'm supposed to live my life while terrorists get killed. So if the NSA wants to listen in on US citizens that communicate with terrorists, then I say "tap dat azz".

Quoted: Quoted: #3 I do not need a fucking reason, we are supposed to be free, this is the USA Yeah, and I'm supposed to live my life while terrorists get killed. So if the NSA wants to listen in on US citizens that communicate with terrorists, then I say "tap dat azz".

I don't think too many people have a problem with listening in on people that communicate with terrorists, but they should do it the right way. Or we all suffer because of it.