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Posted: 5/4/2004 3:22:51 PM EST
[Last Edit: 5/4/2004 3:26:59 PM EST by SCAR]
First let me start off by saying I am not a FTO, But have been considering becoming one. I work for the Gary Indiana Police Department (pretty rough city) and for the past 3 weeks they have hed me trying to train a new Aux. Officer, everyone they had put him with agrees he is a little slow, Not a bad guy but I do not know how he has survived for 40 years in life, This guy can not take a report figure out where he is, thinks he has to run Hot to alarms but not to GSWs, and can NOT talk on the radio he will tell you exactly what he is going say before hand but as soon as he keys up he freezes and messes it up, after 3 weeks it is getting old. You explain the same thing to him everyday and the next day it is back to the same thing. And has NO idea what you are talking about when you say officer saftey.

Today we did a Arrest for domestic battery, criminal confinment, and Intimadation, I cuff they guy and search him and tell him to search him and put him in the car, I am talking with someone 5 feet from th car and he walks over to us, I think OK its done, finish the conversation and go to the car about a block into the transport (PO is driving) I see lot a movement in the back seat, I turn to check and see our prisoner trying to unlock his cuffs the PO left our bags (with cuff keys hanging off them) and my AR15 and shotgun along with a handgun in my bag in the backseat. This PO has done probley 25 arrests with me over the past 3 weeks and knows put the guns and bags in the trunk when we do a arrest. I yell to stop the car jump out pull the prisoner out (he had the key in one of cuffs already) I lost it and strarted Mother FN the PO then realized we were in a parking lot with people, so I stop yelling at him not wanting to embarass him in front of people. Searched the prisoner again then I checked all the guns and put them in the trunk myself. PO looks at me (knows Im pissed because I am not saying a word to him) and says Im sorry I told him dont say it to me tell my wife your sorry for killing me and to save it for the station we would talk then. After we booked him in, I asked what was he thinking and his responce was "You always tell me to put the bags and guns in the trunk you didnt tell me to so I thought you didnt want me to" I went off again with alot of curse words and what I would do to him if he ever put my life at risk again and told him we are done for the day and we have the next 2 off so go home and think about if this is the job for him bcause I dont feel it is. I went and had a talk with my SGT. and told him NO MORE with guy I cant do it anymore.

I know this guy is not a Sworn officer and our Aux. dont get anywhere near the training we do, so I have been trying to work with him but this is the third time he almost got me hurt first 2 were from blowing stop signs by not paying attention, so I refuse to work with him ever again.

FTOs am I overeacting or are all rookies this dumb (I never did anything this bad) FTOs any words of wisdom would help me as I finish my 5th beer of the night (never been someone that drinks after work).
Link Posted: 5/4/2004 3:51:15 PM EST

I know this guy is not a Sworn officer and our Aux. dont get anywhere near the training we do, so I have been trying to work with him but this is the third time he almost got me hurt first 2 were from blowing stop signs by not paying attention, so I refuse to work with him ever again.


all the training in the world wouldn't help this guy. he obviously lacks basic common sense. i had a reserve ride with me last night. he kicked ass.

but DAMN!!! didn't put the gear away?!? that's grounds for a boot to the ass.

P.S. gary indiana being "pretty rough" is putting it mildly. they're fucking animals. be safe out there!
Link Posted: 5/4/2004 4:52:25 PM EST
I found that it is best to close my eyes and let them tell me when anything that they think might be important is about to happen. Preferably prior to them getting me sued.
Link Posted: 5/4/2004 5:30:23 PM EST
[Last Edit: 5/4/2004 5:31:25 PM EST by Cellblock_CQB]
We have a box for that on our evaluation forms NRT, NOT RESPONDING TO TRAINING!!!

This guy is a danger and needs to be handed a pink slip and an application to a fastfood job in another town.

I'm an FTO for a County Sheriffs Office in Detention Services and this kinda thing happens from time to time. Everyone is allowed a brain fart now and than but that is not acceptable. Find a way to let him go quickly.

Cellblock_CQB
Link Posted: 5/4/2004 5:35:25 PM EST
Link Posted: 5/4/2004 5:48:34 PM EST

Originally Posted By SCAR:

......I know this guy is not a Sworn officer and our Aux. dont get anywhere near the training we do, ....



Right there is the problem.

I don't know broad (or narrow) your auxiliaries duties and functions are, but I am a FIRM believer that the only way to run a successful auxiliary (or reserve) program is to require them to adhere to the same standards of training that's required of the regular officers.

Our auxiliary officers have to go through the same hiring process (written test, phy agility test, oral boards. polygraph, psychological and medical exams) and have to complete the same academy (~750 hours - can do full time acad for ~19 weeks or the part time acad for ~10 1/2 months), go through the same FTO program(450 hours) and maintain their qualifications (DT, firearms, etc...). All told, it usually takes about two years before they are where they can patrol by themselves......and that is the ultimate goal. If they can't hack solo patrol, they are given the boot.
They get dispatched just like any other officer and have to be able to appropriately handle any call they are given. Unles they are told, the citizens of our city never know whether they are dealing with a regular or auxiliary officer.

The down side is that we have a hard time getting people to undertake the committment. Many who do, end up getting hired on as full time officers, usually within our department. We have been struggling to keep our auxiliary manpower within 50% of it's authorized strength of 35. Part of this is because we don't advertise the program (I don't know why.....ask the chief) but it's mostly because for the academy requirement.

Still, I would much rather it be this way than to risk having untrained or undertrained people. It's an accident waiting to happen.
Of course that's just my opinion.......
Link Posted: 5/5/2004 3:54:18 AM EST
Be nice to that dude. he may be your CO one day.
Link Posted: 5/5/2004 5:11:34 AM EST
Scar,

Does your department have a specified training program for these auxiliaries?

We pretty much conduct our training in four phases...

First (after they have passed the poly but are still waiting for the background to finish and before they are sworn in) they have to do 40 hours of ride-alongs. They ride with any available officer and are issued a "check-off sheet" that lists specific training topics that must be signed off buy the officer that conducted the training.

Once they are sworn in they are issued their uniforms and gear and go through pistol, shotgum, OC, exp baton and handcuffing and use of force training. They are also given a 60 hour sign-off sheet that they need to complete before they start the academy. The go out, in full uniform, and can only act as a cover officer. The officer must keep them in sight at all times.

After they start the academy they are issued the FTO book. It is two parts. The first part (part A) can be signed off by any officer that they go out with and it is 230 hours. Again, they can only act as a cover officer.

Once they finish the academy and complete the 230 hours of part A they start part B. It is 220 hours and can only be signed off by a certified FTO. It is here that they are expected to start displaying initiative and participate actively on vehicle stops and other calls for service.

At the end of the FTO process they have to ride with the FTO supervisor who then gives them a couple of written tests and then tests them with some scenarios designed to demonstrate officer safety skills (i.e. felony vehicle stop, building search, contact with suspicious person, prisoner search, etc...). If they do well, the FTO supervisor writes a memo to the patrol division commander, recommending them for "independent patrol".

I should add that the academy uses role playing extensively. By the time they graduate, they will have each had about 25 vehicle stops, 5 felony stops, numerous domestics and other calls and about 3 to 5 DUI arrests (with real drunks....funny how we never have a problem getting role players for this one). Also, during officer safety they get to spend a few days at the FBI academy's "Hogans Alley" using simunitions...in addition to the shoot/don't shoot scanarios thet we do at our academy.

Link Posted: 5/5/2004 5:31:28 AM EST
Thankfully, we don't have a reserve or Aux. program, We FTO cadets out of the academy.

However, I dropped out of the FTO program, not because of the cadets, but because of the amount of paperwork that has evolved over the past few years. In a 40 hour training week I'd spend AT LEAST 10 of it on FTO related tree killing, and not on training. I reached the point where I kept cadet files in copier paper boxes. It's not worth the extra pay.
Link Posted: 5/5/2004 5:47:33 PM EST

Originally Posted By Johninaustin:
Thankfully, we don't have a reserve or Aux. program, We FTO cadets out of the academy.

However, I dropped out of the FTO program, not because of the cadets, but because of the amount of paperwork that has evolved over the past few years. In a 40 hour training week I'd spend AT LEAST 10 of it on FTO related tree killing, and not on training. I reached the point where I kept cadet files in copier paper boxes. hock.gif It's not worth the extra pay.



Being an FTO is not about the extra pay. Being an FTO is about shaping a newbie so that he is better at the job then you were when you started. I took a position as an FTO because I wanted to train the next generation of Detnetion Officers in a manner that garners respect for the job. Let's face it none of us are going to get rich doing this job. We do this job to make a difference. That is what being an FTO is about. Just an observaton not a flame.
Link Posted: 5/5/2004 6:07:04 PM EST
[Last Edit: 5/5/2004 6:16:40 PM EST by Johninaustin]
sorry, really screwed that up. where's the delete?
Link Posted: 5/5/2004 6:13:55 PM EST

Originally Posted By Johninaustin:

Originally Posted By Cellblock_CQB:
Originally Posted By Johninaustin:
Thankfully, we don't have a reserve or Aux. program, We FTO cadets out of the academy.

However, I dropped out of the FTO program, not because of the cadets, but because of the amount of paperwork that has evolved over the past few years. In a 40 hour training week I'd spend AT LEAST 10 of it on FTO related tree killing, and not on training. I reached the point where I kept cadet files in copier paper boxes. It's not worth the extra pay.



Being an FTO is not about the extra pay. Being an FTO is about shaping a newbie so that he is better at the job then you were when you started. I took a position as an FTO because I wanted to train the next generation of Detnetion Officers in a manner that garners respect for the job. Let's face it none of us are going to get rich doing this job. We do this job to make a difference. That is what being an FTO is about. Just an observaton not a flame.



Yes, it is about the pay. I don't have to be an FTO to interact/train with a rookie, but if I have to spend such a large amount of precious training time sitting in front of a computer doing the most asinine documentation you have ever seen, somebody's going to pay me a lot more than they currently do.
I still teach, I just won't do FTO work anymore. For years I did it for free back when the program actually took training seriously. But now our program is being papered to death with liability concerns. Our training program has some serious faults, and with the local political climate, it's not going to get better anytime soon.
Link Posted: 5/5/2004 9:29:02 PM EST
[Last Edit: 5/5/2004 9:32:15 PM EST by GackMan]

Originally Posted By SCAR:
I know this guy is not a Sworn officer and our Aux. dont get anywhere near the training we do, so I have been trying to work with him but this is the third time he almost got me hurt first 2 were from blowing stop signs by not paying attention, so I refuse to work with him ever again.



That is no excuse. Cut him loose if you can; let him volunteer w/ no arrest power or weapon if he wants to be active in the community and stuff... leaving a prisoner alone with weapons and handcuff keys? that isn't a problem that more training can address. They just let a guy go from the reserve program here. Nice guy, just didn't have the right mind set.

how long is the training for the Aux in Gary?

I'm a reserve and we have a full academy and then an FTEP program and then probation time. We have to take the same tests and attend the same in-service training with the full timers.

Hell, us part timers are supposed to HELP, not cause you to do more work and place you in danger.

letting him 'get by' because he is an Aux will just get someone hurt some day. Don't lower standards when safety is at stake.

Link Posted: 5/11/2004 7:24:45 PM EST
FTOs am I overeacting or are all rookies this dumb

Mine Aren't. I've had pretty good luck so far (he says, jinksing himself to the next 5 boots being dumbasses). We don't have a Reserve Program (thank God), but any Trainee in our program would have been bounced that day, if not before. Three NRT's equal a pink slip in our program.

Sorry you have to deal with a shitbird in a busy city. FTO can be rewarding, but is indeed becoming a draining paperwork evolution.

Be safe
Link Posted: 5/11/2004 8:58:19 PM EST
Well this guy is still on the Dept. but has not been able to work nobody will let him ride with them. As far as Aux. training they do a 40 hour class on cuffing, shooting, DTs and traffic stops, then they have to ride a total of 500 hours with a sworn Ofc. before being cut loose. I have always had BAD experance with Aux. but thought about it and said they get no training and take the same risks as we do so Ill give it a shot and try to train a Aux. first to see if I even want to be a FTO and this just makes me dislike our Aux even more seems like all of ours just want to pin on th badge 1 time a week and they go out there and act like a hard a$$ to everyone and screw eveything up (its so bad our prosecoter (sp?) wont take a case from a Aux.) These guys ar something else every time I see one in public they have something on that says police evrything they wear has to Aux. Police but they always walk around with badge and gun showing claiming the Police.
I am waiting for one of them to pi$$ off a sworn Ofc. and be arrested for impersanating a police officer sense they have no powers except in the city, and when they are working for the city.

Sorry about he spelling started vacation today and have been kicking thm back pretty hard.
Link Posted: 5/12/2004 12:06:06 AM EST

Originally Posted By nofolkinway:
Be nice to that dude. he may be your CO one day.


this is hysterical
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