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Posted: 10/2/2005 8:04:53 PM EDT
I have received one invoice so far, for the outpatient center. I was there less then 3 hours. I had my ACL scoped, trimmed up, the miniscus repaired, and thats it. The surgery was about 1.5 hours. The invoice is for

1,383 other implants
3,800 ambulatory surgical care
180 EKG/ECG

Total bill of $5,363. Thats $1,788 an hour.

Damn.

At least I only have to pay 20% of it. But still, I feel my insurance company is getting raped.

I cant wait to see what my actual surgeon is going to charge me if this was just the outpatient bill.
Link Posted: 10/2/2005 8:07:13 PM EDT
Sucks. I had my hand stitched up in the ER a couple years ago, to the tune of $1700.00 in all. Only $113.00 a stitch.
Link Posted: 10/2/2005 8:09:30 PM EDT
Surgeon's fee is seperate. If you had xrays, the radiologist fee will also be seperate.
Link Posted: 10/2/2005 8:09:37 PM EDT
If it will make you feel better my wife had brain surgery a few years ago and it cost and arm and a leg but at least she still has her brain.
Link Posted: 10/2/2005 8:10:43 PM EDT

Originally Posted By spm681:
If it will make you feel better my wife had brain surgery a few years ago and it cost and arm and a leg but at least she still has her brain.



Shoulda picked a girl like me.
She didnt have a brain to begin with.
Link Posted: 10/2/2005 8:12:13 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 10/2/2005 8:15:56 PM EDT by Defcon]
Link Posted: 10/2/2005 8:12:25 PM EDT
my last surgery was 30K, thanks major medical. only $1,500 out of pocket
Link Posted: 10/2/2005 8:12:28 PM EDT
Now you know why insurance is so high
Link Posted: 10/2/2005 8:13:20 PM EDT
I had two surgeries on my hand to the tune of $24,000.00 EACH. Lucky I didn't have to pay the bill.
Link Posted: 10/2/2005 8:14:16 PM EDT
Actually, insurance companies probably don't pay much more than 10 or 15 percent of the actual fee, part of the reason the hospital 'charges' so much in the first place.
Link Posted: 10/2/2005 8:14:46 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Defcon:
I tore my ACL and lost 90% of the cartlidge in my knee.

Just to give you an idea of what mine cost, $25,000 in 1994. That's the surgery alone.

Good luck. How's the knee feeling?



Its awesome and feeling good. I am four weeks out and putting weight on it with the crutches. 4 straight weeks of getting aorund on crutches and no weight wasnt fun. Although I am sad to announce that my calf and thigh muscle are now AWOL and cannot be found.
Link Posted: 10/2/2005 8:15:26 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 10/2/2005 8:16:24 PM EDT by jasondcrum]
If it will make you feel better my wife had brain surgery a few years ago and it cost and arm and a leg but at least she still has her brain.

Sometimes I would like to look into getting a brain for my wife. How much are they?

<­BR>





Dammit she is going to read this. lol. Trouble looms ahead and I am just running through the gears to get there.
Link Posted: 10/2/2005 8:15:46 PM EDT
It's outrageous. For doing an ORIF of my fibula and inserting a syndesmosis screw it cost me almost 9 grand, and I still have to have the screw removed at the end of this month. That's not including the ER visit when the injury happened or the other doctor visits before the procedure. Luckily all I have had to cover is about $500 in deductibles, from what I see everything is totally covered by my insurance. I would much rather have had an M-16 for that 9k rather than some stainless steel hardware that will be in my leg forever. I still have another $250 deductible coming up for the second surgery, then hopefully that's it.
Link Posted: 10/2/2005 8:16:07 PM EDT

Originally Posted By lokt:
Actually, insurance companies probably don't pay much more than 10 or 15 percent of the actual fee, part of the reason the hospital 'charges' so much in the first place.



Is it one of those things where they negotiate with the hospital for a lower fee.
Link Posted: 10/2/2005 8:16:42 PM EDT
amazingly, YOU can't sell a kidney that you own, but the doctors can make a mint to put that "free" kidney in.




$1788 is some peoples monthly income, and that's per hour for the doc. unreal.
Link Posted: 10/2/2005 8:17:09 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Dace:

Originally Posted By lokt:
Actually, insurance companies probably don't pay much more than 10 or 15 percent of the actual fee, part of the reason the hospital 'charges' so much in the first place.



Is it one of those things where they negotiate with the hospital for a lower fee.



That's my guess. and that's also why patients with no insurance get the shaft - they have to pay the entire bill out of pocket.
Link Posted: 10/2/2005 8:18:30 PM EDT

Originally Posted By RRTX:
It's outrageous. For doing an ORIF of my fibula and inserting a syndesmosis screw it cost me almost 9 grand, and I still have to have the screw removed at the end of this month. That's not including the ER visit when the injury happened or the other doctor visits before the procedure. Luckily all I have had to cover is about $500 in deductibles, from what I see everything is totally covered by my insurance. I would much rather have had an M-16 for that 9k rather than some stainless steel hardware that will be in my leg forever. I still have another $250 deductible coming up for the second surgery, then hopefully that's it.



Even with big accounting my insurance sucks, but thats okay. I have to pay a $750 deductible and 20% of the remaining bill. There are plenty of people out there without any health insurance at all so I am not complaining.

I just cant believe how much the bill actually is.
Link Posted: 10/2/2005 8:25:29 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 10/2/2005 8:26:14 PM EDT by ARDOC]
Thats actually low. You have to figure in some stuff you didnt even consider. There is:

Malpractice insurance
Anesthesia and CRNA costs
OR room costs
Surgical supplies, some of the sutures they used probably cost $100 more a pack
-you just cant use string, you need surgical sutures that dont react with the body and is sterile etc.
Nursing
Monitoring
Doc fees
Surgical scrub tech

ORs typically run $400-500 an hour, that doesnt include anything but the room

The center probably made less then $250-500 on you.

The bill that the insurance got is not what they paid. That will never be revealed to you. But depending on the deal they cut, its 50-60 cents on the dollar. The insurance will do this so you have to pay a higher deductible.

Link Posted: 10/2/2005 8:26:17 PM EDT
Link Posted: 10/2/2005 8:29:34 PM EDT

Originally Posted By lokt:

Originally Posted By Dace:

Originally Posted By lokt:
Actually, insurance companies probably don't pay much more than 10 or 15 percent of the actual fee, part of the reason the hospital 'charges' so much in the first place.



Is it one of those things where they negotiate with the hospital for a lower fee.



That's my guess. and that's also why patients with no insurance get the shaft - they have to pay the entire bill out of pocket.



Actually if you don't have insurance and unless you are very wealthy you go bankrupt and/or you don't get treatment.

Medical costs to those that do not have insurance are inflated by a factor of 5 to 10 times over what insurance companies pay. This is what happen when you don have any market controls in a system.

The system is broken and I see no way to fix it. Only those on welfare or with insurance can afford medical treatment anymore... if you have a preexisting condition or are over 40 forget getting insurance without having a exceptional income.
Link Posted: 10/2/2005 8:31:57 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 10/2/2005 8:32:34 PM EDT by Max_Mike]

Originally Posted By David_Hineline:
Hospitals that accept any form of government payment, must provide care to anyone who can not pay. So the uninsured, the Illegal alien, the drunks and deadbeats, never pay and the hospitals can not collect. This amounts to around 30% non collection for services I believe. That means people with insurance and who do pay, get to pay more.




Nope... in theroy that is what is supposed to happen. Try and get any decent treatment outside the ER without medical insurance... you will not get it unless you know someone.
Link Posted: 10/2/2005 8:32:08 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Max_Mike:

Originally Posted By lokt:

Originally Posted By Dace:

Originally Posted By lokt:
Actually, insurance companies probably don't pay much more than 10 or 15 percent of the actual fee, part of the reason the hospital 'charges' so much in the first place.



Is it one of those things where they negotiate with the hospital for a lower fee.



That's my guess. and that's also why patients with no insurance get the shaft - they have to pay the entire bill out of pocket.



Actually if you don't have insurance and unless you are very wealthy you go bankrupt and/or you don't get treatment.

Medical costs to those that do not have insurance are inflated by a factor of 5 to 10 times over what insurance companies pay. This is what happen when you don have any market controls in a system.

The system is broken and I see no way to fix it. Only those on welfare or with insurance can afford medical treatment anymore... if you have a preexisting condition or are over 40 forget getting insurance without having a exceptional income.



The hospital is the largest reason for bankrupcy in frederick county virginia.
Link Posted: 10/2/2005 8:32:21 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Dace:
I have received one invoice so far, for the outpatient center. I was there less then 3 hours. I had my ACL scoped, trimmed up, the miniscus repaired, and thats it. The surgery was about 1.5 hours. The invoice is for

1,383 other implants
3,800 ambulatory surgical care
180 EKG/ECG

Total bill of $5,363. Thats $1,788 an hour.

Damn.

At least I only have to pay 20% of it. But still, I feel my insurance company is getting raped.

I cant wait to see what my actual surgeon is going to charge me if this was just the outpatient bill.



There is a calculated formula of how they come up with the prices that they do.

Was there a girl at the reception desk? who pays her?
You had a nurse or two? Their pay?
You wanted the doctor to work in the dark? Electric bill has to be paid.
and THE BEST liability the doc has on his side? Mal Practice Insurance.

Its not an hourly rate they come up with... it is now a "per Job" rate. Accountants get all kinds of good money to figure this shit out. Thats what most companies do now. You have pros that figure this stuff out.

Once my accountant told me that I had to raise my rates $5.00 just to BREAK EVEN... I was losing money and didnt even know it.

Dace, its an ugly vicious cycle. "you" the patient doesnt like your scar (this is just a scenario) so you sue the doctor for mal practice or negligence... insurance company awards you $$$... they now raise his rates... He in turn raises HIS rates to the "Blue Cross" and Blue Cross now raises their rates to you.

Medicine is now BIG business... The doctors do the same thing I do, only they have a few more zero's on their bill than do I and they go to school a lot longer than I do.

Same lousy shit.
Link Posted: 10/2/2005 8:32:34 PM EDT
It adds up and that's probably not all the charges. Just my ER visit netted 3 seperate bills, the ER, the ER doctor, and X-ray. The damn ER doc was $358 and all he did was look at my x-ray and write me a referral to an orthopedic surgeon, I saw him for less than 5 minutes. I just now looked at my insurance website and noticed more charges from the surgery lol. The hospital invoice for 9k must have just been from them, now there is a 3k charge from my doc and 1k from the anesthesiologist. Thank God it shows all those claims as complete
Link Posted: 10/2/2005 8:33:17 PM EDT

Originally Posted By David_Hineline:
Hospitals that accept any form of government payment, must provide care to anyone who can not pay. So the uninsured, the Illegal alien, the drunks and deadbeats, never pay and the hospitals can not collect. This amounts to around 30% non collection for services I believe. That means people with insurance and who do pay, get to pay more.




Yup to some degree this is true. The ER is not allowed to charge anyone. So the leeches of the world will come to the ER instead of going to a family doctor. You would not believe the amount of shit the ER docs have to see. Oh I have a cold, my blood pressure is low, I dont want to go to work tomorrow, I dont want to go to court tomorrow, I have this pain for the last 3 years now.

So they take advantage of the system. If the ER was allowed just to charge $25 for nonemergency visits, this would take a lot of pressure of the ERs.

You would not believe the amount of ER billing the gets rejected by the insurance companies because it wasnt an emergency. So it goes to collection but they leeches can still go to the ER because they cant turn anyone away.

Link Posted: 10/2/2005 8:35:15 PM EDT

Originally Posted By DrFrige:

Originally Posted By Dace:
I have received one invoice so far, for the outpatient center. I was there less then 3 hours. I had my ACL scoped, trimmed up, the miniscus repaired, and thats it. The surgery was about 1.5 hours. The invoice is for

1,383 other implants
3,800 ambulatory surgical care
180 EKG/ECG

Total bill of $5,363. Thats $1,788 an hour.

Damn.

At least I only have to pay 20% of it. But still, I feel my insurance company is getting raped.

I cant wait to see what my actual surgeon is going to charge me if this was just the outpatient bill.



There is a calculated formula of how they come up with the prices that they do.

Was there a girl at the reception desk? who pays her?
You had a nurse or two? Their pay?
You wanted the doctor to work in the dark? Electric bill has to be paid.
and THE BEST liability the doc has on his side? Mal Practice Insurance.

Its not an hourly rate they come up with... it is now a "per Job" rate. Accountants get all kinds of good money to figure this shit out. Thats what most companies do now. You have pros that figure this stuff out.

Once my accountant told me that I had to raise my rates $5.00 just to BREAK EVEN... I was losing money and didnt even know it.

Dace, its an ugly vicious cycle. "you" the patient doesnt like your scar (this is just a scenario) so you sue the doctor for mal practice or negligence... insurance company awards you $$$... they now raise his rates... He in turn raises HIS rates to the "Blue Cross" and Blue Cross now raises their rates to you.

Medicine is now BIG business... The doctors do the same thing I do, only they have a few more zero's on their bill than do I and they go to school a lot longer than I do.

Same lousy shit.



Hit it square on the head.
Link Posted: 10/2/2005 8:36:54 PM EDT
It's not all profit, Surgeons have a huge cost of performing a surgery, they don't just pull out the old garage tools and go to work, also I am willing to bet more than just a surgeon was in the surgery at the time, the surgeon may more likely $300-$400 hr at max.
Link Posted: 10/2/2005 8:37:03 PM EDT

The system is broken and I see no way to fix it. Only those on welfare or with insurance can afford medical treatment anymore... if you have a preexisting condition or are over 40 forget getting insurance without having a exceptional income.


Amen, the system is broken because of the third party payer (insurance companies). The way to fix it is reduce their influence as much as possible. If people pay for medical care like other goods/services the costs will become more sane and the insurance companies will make less money.

Health insurance should be just that, insurance against highly unusual situations. Your car insurance doesn't pay for oil changes, so why should health insurance pay if you go to the doctor for your cold? Make insurance involved only for the unusual situations and the system will get better.
Link Posted: 10/2/2005 8:37:49 PM EDT

Originally Posted By RRTX:
It adds up and that's probably not all the charges. Just my ER visit netted 3 seperate bills, the ER, the ER doctor, and X-ray. The damn ER doc was $358 and all he did was look at my x-ray and write me a referral to an orthopedic surgeon, I saw him for less than 5 minutes. I just now looked at my insurance website and noticed more charges from the surgery lol. The hospital invoice for 9k must have just been from them, now there is a 3k charge from my doc and 1k from the anesthesiologist. Thank God it shows all those claims as complete

'

But the real question is how much did the doc really recieve of the $358. You are talking 50-60 cents on the dollar. Next you have to deduct malpractice insurance costs. Typically about $50000 a year depending on specialty. Much more in some states like CA or FL. Next licensure and government fees are cut out, taxes of course. He will take home about $20-40 from your case.
Link Posted: 10/2/2005 8:39:48 PM EDT

Originally Posted By ARDOC:

Originally Posted By David_Hineline:
Hospitals that accept any form of government payment, must provide care to anyone who can not pay. So the uninsured, the Illegal alien, the drunks and deadbeats, never pay and the hospitals can not collect. This amounts to around 30% non collection for services I believe. That means people with insurance and who do pay, get to pay more.




Yup to some degree this is true. The ER is not allowed to charge anyone. So the leeches of the world will come to the ER instead of going to a family doctor. You would not believe the amount of shit the ER docs have to see. Oh I have a cold, my blood pressure is low, I dont want to go to work tomorrow, I dont want to go to court tomorrow, I have this pain for the last 3 years now.

So they take advantage of the system. If the ER was allowed just to charge $25 for nonemergency visits, this would take a lot of pressure of the ERs.

You would not believe the amount of ER billing the gets rejected by the insurance companies because it wasnt an emergency. So it goes to collection but they leeches can still go to the ER because they cant turn anyone away.




that situation isn't helped by "urgent care" places that refuse service for lack of ins or cash to pay then send them to the ER.

amazingly both owned by the same hospital.

Been there and done that.
Link Posted: 10/2/2005 8:39:51 PM EDT

Originally Posted By rtr:

The system is broken and I see no way to fix it. Only those on welfare or with insurance can afford medical treatment anymore... if you have a preexisting condition or are over 40 forget getting insurance without having a exceptional income.


Amen, the system is broken because of the third party payer (insurance companies). The way to fix it is reduce their influence as much as possible. If people pay for medical care like other goods/services the costs will become more sane and the insurance companies will make less money.

Health insurance should be just that, insurance against highly unusual situations. Your car insurance doesn't pay for oil changes, so why should health insurance pay if you go to the doctor for your cold? Make insurance involved only for the unusual situations and the system will get better.



But the problem is that not all people are responsible and take care of themselves like you. The NO thing brings that into clarity. There is a certain segment of society that thinks we owe them something and they deserve something. Why I dont know but they blame others and take without giving.

Link Posted: 10/2/2005 8:41:09 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 10/2/2005 8:43:40 PM EDT by ARDOC]

Originally Posted By unkempt1:

Originally Posted By ARDOC:

Originally Posted By David_Hineline:
Hospitals that accept any form of government payment, must provide care to anyone who can not pay. So the uninsured, the Illegal alien, the drunks and deadbeats, never pay and the hospitals can not collect. This amounts to around 30% non collection for services I believe. That means people with insurance and who do pay, get to pay more.




Yup to some degree this is true. The ER is not allowed to charge anyone. So the leeches of the world will come to the ER instead of going to a family doctor. You would not believe the amount of shit the ER docs have to see. Oh I have a cold, my blood pressure is low, I dont want to go to work tomorrow, I dont want to go to court tomorrow, I have this pain for the last 3 years now.

So they take advantage of the system. If the ER was allowed just to charge $25 for nonemergency visits, this would take a lot of pressure of the ERs.

You would not believe the amount of ER billing the gets rejected by the insurance companies because it wasnt an emergency. So it goes to collection but they leeches can still go to the ER because they cant turn anyone away.




that situation isn't helped by "urgent care" places that refuse service for lack of ins or cash to pay then send them to the ER.

amazingly both owned by the same hospital.

Been there and done that.



Aint this the truth. Very much so, the difference is the Urgent care is there for people with insurance so they can get in and out faster. The abusers know this and will not go to an Urgent Care center because they will have to pay or not get seen. Its a loophole for hospitals. Many places are closing their ERs and only having UC centers. Then they only have to see people with insurance of cash payers.
Link Posted: 10/2/2005 8:44:40 PM EDT
That sounds pretty cheap. Looks like you got a good deal.

You'll be getting a lot of other bills. Wait until you get the anesthesiologist's bill.

Like everyone is saying there are a lot more people involved in the surgery other than your doctor. Everyone from the CEO of the hospital down to the guy that mopped up the floor after they wheeled you out of the OR.

True, most of it will be written off by the hospital as part of their agreements with major insurance companies but you are also paying for all of the leeches in our society that didn't bother to be as responsible as you and get medical insurance.
Link Posted: 10/2/2005 8:45:07 PM EDT
We had a lady from France of all places. She obviously didnt have insurance here. She was pregnant and delivered a baby while she was here. She whipped out her GOLD VISA and Chaching, $3000 later she had her baby. It was the first time I got paid what I billed.
Link Posted: 10/2/2005 8:45:36 PM EDT

Originally Posted By unkempt1:
amazingly, YOU can't sell a kidney that you own, but the doctors can make a mint to put that "free" kidney in.




$1788 is some peoples monthly income, and that's per hour for the doc. unreal.



No, that is the HOSPITAL fees. Doctors bill is another invoice. You are paying for the overhead from those that cannot afford emergency care. Like illegal aliens.

Economics. What we have when we let politicians tell doctors who they MUST treat.

What is more fundamental, health care or legal aid? Why should lawyers make millions?
Link Posted: 10/2/2005 8:47:09 PM EDT

Originally Posted By ARDOC:

Originally Posted By unkempt1:

Originally Posted By ARDOC:

Originally Posted By David_Hineline:
Hospitals that accept any form of government payment, must provide care to anyone who can not pay. So the uninsured, the Illegal alien, the drunks and deadbeats, never pay and the hospitals can not collect. This amounts to around 30% non collection for services I believe. That means people with insurance and who do pay, get to pay more.




Yup to some degree this is true. The ER is not allowed to charge anyone. So the leeches of the world will come to the ER instead of going to a family doctor. You would not believe the amount of shit the ER docs have to see. Oh I have a cold, my blood pressure is low, I dont want to go to work tomorrow, I dont want to go to court tomorrow, I have this pain for the last 3 years now.

So they take advantage of the system. If the ER was allowed just to charge $25 for nonemergency visits, this would take a lot of pressure of the ERs.

You would not believe the amount of ER billing the gets rejected by the insurance companies because it wasnt an emergency. So it goes to collection but they leeches can still go to the ER because they cant turn anyone away.




that situation isn't helped by "urgent care" places that refuse service for lack of ins or cash to pay then send them to the ER.

amazingly both owned by the same hospital.

Been there and done that.



Aint this the truth. Very much so, the difference is the Urgent care is there for people with insurance so they can get in and out faster. The abusers know this and will not go to an Urgent Care center for this very reason.



if they aren't going to be seen and know it at the UC, there isn't much choice on where they can go.

Link Posted: 10/2/2005 8:48:05 PM EDT

Originally Posted By ARDOC:

Originally Posted By RRTX:
It adds up and that's probably not all the charges. Just my ER visit netted 3 seperate bills, the ER, the ER doctor, and X-ray. The damn ER doc was $358 and all he did was look at my x-ray and write me a referral to an orthopedic surgeon, I saw him for less than 5 minutes. I just now looked at my insurance website and noticed more charges from the surgery lol. The hospital invoice for 9k must have just been from them, now there is a 3k charge from my doc and 1k from the anesthesiologist. Thank God it shows all those claims as complete

'

But the real question is how much did the doc really recieve of the $358. You are talking 50-60 cents on the dollar. Next you have to deduct malpractice insurance costs. Typically about $50000 a year depending on specialty. Much more in some states like CA or FL. Next licensure and government fees are cut out, taxes of course. He will take home about $20-40 from your case.



I was suprised when I saw that my insurance company actually shows how much they paid out. You are not kidding when you talk about cutting a deal, on that one he charged $358 and they paid out $124. On the bill from the hospital for the surgery they billed $ 8,909.38 and insurance paid out $4467
Link Posted: 10/2/2005 8:50:27 PM EDT

Originally Posted By RRTX:

Originally Posted By ARDOC:

Originally Posted By RRTX:
It adds up and that's probably not all the charges. Just my ER visit netted 3 seperate bills, the ER, the ER doctor, and X-ray. The damn ER doc was $358 and all he did was look at my x-ray and write me a referral to an orthopedic surgeon, I saw him for less than 5 minutes. I just now looked at my insurance website and noticed more charges from the surgery lol. The hospital invoice for 9k must have just been from them, now there is a 3k charge from my doc and 1k from the anesthesiologist. Thank God it shows all those claims as complete

'

But the real question is how much did the doc really recieve of the $358. You are talking 50-60 cents on the dollar. Next you have to deduct malpractice insurance costs. Typically about $50000 a year depending on specialty. Much more in some states like CA or FL. Next licensure and government fees are cut out, taxes of course. He will take home about $20-40 from your case.



I was suprised when I saw that my insurance company actually shows how much they paid out. You are not kidding when you talk about cutting a deal, on that one he charged $358 and they paid out $124. On the bill from the hospital for the surgery they billed $ 8,909.38 and insurance paid out $4467



Exactly so the doc got $124 thats less then 50 cents on the dollar. After his expenses he made less $20-40 on seeing you. So the truth is hidden, docs dont make that much. Not like they used to in the old days.
Link Posted: 10/2/2005 8:53:28 PM EDT
Ha! My latest doctor bill for the little incident I had Friday was a whopping $78. Took all of 45 minutes from my busy life and included the tetnus shot. Sure enough, the wound gets infected and per instructions, call him up and he fills the 'script from his professional samples....total cost, $78. No wait, a real (native English speaking)doctor with his own radiology and lab...

Now mind you, this is total cash. I deal with the doctor with cash rendered for services. I deal with my insurance for the compensation.
Link Posted: 10/2/2005 8:53:42 PM EDT

Originally Posted By ARDOC:
The ER is not allowed to charge anyone.



Where are you?

In public/tax funded hospitals here in FL they cannot turn people away for having no money but they still get charged.

Link Posted: 10/2/2005 8:58:10 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 10/2/2005 9:04:13 PM EDT by ARDOC]

Originally Posted By FLGreg:

Originally Posted By ARDOC:
The ER is not allowed to charge anyone.



Where are you?

In public/tax funded hospitals here in FL they cannot turn people away for having no money but they still get charged.




There is a difference being charged and paying. ER visits are never free. But they cannot turn people away for not being able to pay or being a deadbeat.

Of course they are going to send you a bill, how do you expect them to stay in business? As stated there is a BIG difference in charging and paying the bill. The leeches dont pay and they know it. How many illegals in FL do you think pay for their care? Even liberal CA is enacting laws to protect hospitals from the abusers and illegals.

ETA: It doesnt matter what state you are in. Its a federal mandate that you CANNOT turn anyone away from medical care regardless of ability to pay or what is already owed.
Link Posted: 10/2/2005 9:05:10 PM EDT
All I can say is the BEST care I have ever gotten was from a "cash only" minor emergency clinic. It was at the height of flu season and I had strep throat. It was holiday time, New Year's Eve and I was miserable. All the ER's had a 6 hour wait but the clinic had a 30 minute wait...it wasn't covered under my insurance plan but there are times...

Turned out to be a 15 minute wait, including the paperwork. ~$70 later and two perscriptions that WERE covered under my plan and I was on my way to recovery. Darvocet quelled the pain and the antibiotics wiped out the infection.

Since they are open 24 hours, I made them my general care...they like that too. Imagine that? Money for services rendered? No insurance BS for them? I modified my health care savings plan, opting out of all but major medical and have come out ahead in the past 3 years.
Link Posted: 10/2/2005 9:07:21 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Keith_J:
All I can say is the BEST care I have ever gotten was from a "cash only" minor emergency clinic. It was at the height of flu season and I had strep throat. It was holiday time, New Year's Eve and I was miserable. All the ER's had a 6 hour wait but the clinic had a 30 minute wait...it wasn't covered under my insurance plan but there are times...

Turned out to be a 15 minute wait, including the paperwork. ~$70 later and two perscriptions that WERE covered under my plan and I was on my way to recovery. Darvocet quelled the pain and the antibiotics wiped out the infection.

Since they are open 24 hours, I made them my general care...they like that too. Imagine that? Money for services rendered? No insurance BS for them? I modified my health care savings plan, opting out of all but major medical and have come out ahead in the past 3 years.



Hallejuah! Fee for service was trashed LONG LONG ago. Only if you have a platinum BLUE CROSS TRADITIONAL can you have this. They are rarer then the dodo bird.
Link Posted: 10/2/2005 9:22:37 PM EDT

Originally Posted By ARDOC:
We had a lady from France of all places. She obviously didnt have insurance here. She was pregnant and delivered a baby while she was here. She whipped out her GOLD VISA and Chaching, $3000 later she had her baby. It was the first time I got paid what I billed.



If everyone paid cash would your rate still be $3000?

Seems like it may be heading that way. The place I work is going to a high deductible plan (2K/family) and then 90/10 with about an 11K max out of pocket per year. Lot of people at work are saying they are not going to the doctor unless there is a bone sticking out through the skin.
Link Posted: 10/2/2005 9:27:21 PM EDT

Originally Posted By MissouriBob:

Originally Posted By ARDOC:
We had a lady from France of all places. She obviously didnt have insurance here. She was pregnant and delivered a baby while she was here. She whipped out her GOLD VISA and Chaching, $3000 later she had her baby. It was the first time I got paid what I billed.



If everyone paid cash would your rate still be $3000?

Seems like it may be heading that way. The place I work is going to a high deductible plan (2K/family) and then 90/10 with about an 11K max out of pocket per year. Lot of people at work are saying they are not going to the doctor unless there is a bone sticking out through the skin.



Heck no, thats what the insurance people have established as what it costs to deliver a baby. Its standardized. Then they will cut a deal with the provider and dictate what they will pay. So I would get like $700 or less of that $3000. But the government of France paid the $3000! Socialized medicine over there. Only if everyone paid cash. I would be finally out of debt.
Link Posted: 10/2/2005 9:31:24 PM EDT
My last surgery cost $70,000, and that is just for the surgery. Everything else is expected to raise the total over $130,000.
Link Posted: 10/2/2005 9:38:11 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 10/2/2005 9:38:51 PM EDT by AROptics]

Originally Posted By ARDOC:
We had a lady from France of all places. She obviously didnt have insurance here. She was pregnant and delivered a baby while she was here. She whipped out her GOLD VISA and Chaching, $3000 later she had her baby. It was the first time I got paid what I billed.



and now that Frenchie can move here, care of Junior, (an American Citizen) and be covered by Medicare when she is a little old Frenchie. Chaching! is right...having a baby here is the cheapest ticket into the USA around. South of the Border folks do it every day of the week, they even have tours to have their "anchor baby" so the entire family can move here.
Link Posted: 10/2/2005 9:38:20 PM EDT

Originally Posted By ARDOC:

Originally Posted By MissouriBob:

Originally Posted By ARDOC:
We had a lady from France of all places. She obviously didnt have insurance here. She was pregnant and delivered a baby while she was here. She whipped out her GOLD VISA and Chaching, $3000 later she had her baby. It was the first time I got paid what I billed.



If everyone paid cash would your rate still be $3000?

Seems like it may be heading that way. The place I work is going to a high deductible plan (2K/family) and then 90/10 with about an 11K max out of pocket per year. Lot of people at work are saying they are not going to the doctor unless there is a bone sticking out through the skin.



Heck no, thats what the insurance people have established as what it costs to deliver a baby. Its standardized. Then they will cut a deal with the provider and dictate what they will pay. So I would get like $700 or less of that $3000. But the government of France paid the $3000! Socialized medicine over there. Only if everyone paid cash. I would be finally out of debt.



If I was taxed on more then 50% of my income I would demand free medical insurance as well.
Link Posted: 10/2/2005 10:18:19 PM EDT
I just had a similar surgery on my Ankle for a work related injury.


I woudl love to see an invoice of what it woudl have cost, but it is of course covereed by WCB.


I pay half of my insurance cost a month (work gets the other half) and I have no idea how I survived before without it. Prescriptions, Oral surgery, regular surgery (sinus surgery in two weeks)


I am glad you are covered, keep off that joint with full weight if you can for a bit, if you ignore the docs it adds mucho time to your healing, trust me I know
Link Posted: 10/2/2005 11:24:05 PM EDT
My wife had a broken ankle repaired last year -- $79,000.
Link Posted: 10/3/2005 12:22:12 AM EDT

That's my guess. and that's also why patients with no insurance get the shaft - they have to pay the entire bill out of pocket.

That's the law. The poor pay the most for health care in this country. If doctors were allowed to give a cash discount, then health care would change for the better. The doctors could charge less, collect more, and the people that aren't wealthy enough to have health insurance would pay the same or less that the rich do. Instead we have a system, like in RRTX's example, where the poor pay full price and the rich pay half or less what the poor do.z
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