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Posted: 1/19/2013 11:30:01 PM EDT
Over the last couple days I have been engaged in a number of debates on FaceBook regarding new "reports" that NBC has corrected its initial reporting regarding what gun(s) Lanza used and they are "now reporting" that he did not use an AR-15 type rifle... but what's kicking my ass here is that these "new reports" are citing two NBC videos from 12/15(ish) along with a quote from NBC's chief justice correspondent made only a day or so after the shootings.

So, here's the thing... I know that the question of what gun(s) Lanza used has been asked and answered both here, and elsewhere, but it's the elsewhere that I'm having trouble supporting. The only sources I've been able to find for an official statement are from CNN's interview of a CT State Trooper (Lt. Paul Vance)... and the statement on the CT State Police's website.

I'm getting hammered with all kinds of "you're gonna' trust CNN...?! and the CT State Police...!?!" And if the truth be told, I don't want to get anywhere near trying to defend CNN, or for that matter the CT Staties given I have no idea if they're on the level or not.

I think these new "NBC reports" are a bunch of conflated bullshit strung together to make a "new" story out of old news... and I really, really want to beat the shit out of it... but I can't get any traction sounding like an apologist (if you will) for CNN...

Here's a link to one of the new "reports" (with a byline dated 5 days ago, showing video and citing quotes that are a month old )

IJ Review" NBC Now Admits...

And the only retort that I can find that, unfortunately cites the same CNN interview and CT Statie that I've been using as my "proof" that Lanza used an AR

RedState: Setting the Record Straight...

Help a brother out and give me some strategies / tactics for beating this horse until it's dead...

Believe me... I don't want to believe that Lanza used an AR, but unfortunately I do, believe that he did... and I want to support that belief.

Thanks fellas...!!!



Link Posted: 1/19/2013 11:38:44 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/19/2013 11:39:37 PM EDT by corpseknight]
The gun in the trunk was definitely a shotty. People have said Saiga 12- which I think is downright odd for a woman such as his mother to own. Perhaps it was a media prop/plant gun that some dumbfck thought was an AR due to aftermarket AR stock? There is no solid evidence either way so far other than what the news reports. We all know the news doesn't know an AR from the hole in their ass.

/tinfoilhat off
Link Posted: 1/19/2013 11:41:37 PM EDT
I'm not sure we will ever know. I think if one were to wade through coroners report you could guess at what guns were used where by caliber.
Link Posted: 1/19/2013 11:42:14 PM EDT
Originally Posted By corpseknight:
People have said Saiga 12- which I think is downright odd for a woman such as his mother to own.


Really???






Link Posted: 1/19/2013 11:50:49 PM EDT
I was also perplexed as to what gun was in the trunk. I looked and looked and couldn't find anything legit. So I started my own thread putting my money where my mouth is. So I titled my thread something like " Free PMag to whomever can find me a good newslink on trunk gun".

The thread promptly got locked down, but one ARFcommer was nice enough to send me a link via IM.
This is a mobile link but try it anyway
Link Posted: 1/20/2013 12:05:09 AM EDT
Originally Posted By corpseknight:
People have said Saiga 12-


When I seen the video, the first thing I said was "Saiga 12". Its what it looked like to me. I looked like a black rifle to me, then I seen the shot shell eject out of it.
Link Posted: 1/20/2013 12:06:26 AM EDT
just going down the line ignoring everyone that thinks this is a conspiracy. anyone that clicks on here and reads this should do the same
Link Posted: 1/20/2013 12:07:14 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/20/2013 12:11:52 AM EDT by KarlSG1]
Originally Posted By slowkota1:
Originally Posted By corpseknight:
People have said Saiga 12- which I think is downright odd for a woman such as his mother to own.

Really???
http://client.madpixohio.com/Other/Guns-Across-America/i-gsZHrZS/0/XL/IMG_9548-XL.jpg


A redheaded female with a Saiga 12 is both exciting and terrifying at the same time!
Link Posted: 1/20/2013 12:12:30 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/20/2013 12:13:13 AM EDT by 0612Devil]
http://www.ct.gov/despp/cwp/view.asp?Q=517284&A=4226

** UPDATE **

STATE POLICE IDENTIFY WEAPONS USED IN SANDY HOOK INVESTIGATION;
INVESTIGATION CONTINUES

In previous press conferences, the Connecticut State Police clearly identified all of the weapons seized from the crime scene at Sandy Hook Elementary School.

To eliminate any confusion or misinformation, we will again describe and identify the weapons seized at the school crime scene.

Seized inside the school:

#1. Bushmaster .223 caliber-- model XM15-E2S rifle with high capacity 30 round clips
#2. Glock 10 mm handgun
#3. Sig-Sauer P226 9mm handgun

Seized from suspect’s car in parking lot:

#4. Izhmash Canta-12 12 gauge Shotgun (seized from car in parking lot)

This case remains under investigation.

Lt. J. Paul Vance
Link Posted: 1/20/2013 12:15:03 AM EDT
Originally Posted By KarlSG1:

A redheaded female with a Saiga 12 is both exciting and terrifying at the same time!


hahaha!!!

Link Posted: 1/20/2013 12:17:34 AM EDT
Link Posted: 1/20/2013 12:31:46 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/20/2013 12:48:02 AM EDT by Potter_Sherman_T]
Originally Posted By RabidMonkeyPox:
just going down the line ignoring everyone that thinks this is a conspiracy. anyone that clicks on here and reads this should do the same


Dude... I think you've missed my point. I don't think there is a question about what guns were used (no conspiracy)... and I'm looking for a way to argue successfully with the tinfoilers who are rehashing old news stories to try and support their conspiracy theory about the guns that were, or were not used...



ETA: Spelcheck...
Link Posted: 1/20/2013 12:34:31 AM EDT
Originally Posted By DieselEngineer:
http://www.ct.gov/despp/cwp/view.asp?Q=517284&A=4226


Thanks for this link guys... but this is the info I mentioned in my OP that I've already been citing. Given that the info is provided by the CT State Police, the FB types I'm arguing with are discounting it as being part of the conspiracy...
Link Posted: 1/20/2013 12:53:28 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/20/2013 12:54:12 AM EDT by RabidMonkeyPox]
Originally Posted By Potter_Sherman_T:
Originally Posted By RabidMonkeyPox:
just going down the line ignoring everyone that thinks this is a conspiracy. anyone that clicks on here and reads this should do the same


Dude... I think you've missed my point. I don't think there is a question about what guns were used (no conspiracy)... and I'm looking for a way to argue successfully with the tinfoilers who are rehashing old news stories to try and support their conspiracy theory about the guns that were, or were not used...



ETA: Spelcheck...


not pointing at you specifically, some of the others that have posted in this thread
I know your searching for an answer against the tinfiol people but some tinfoil people showed up, my post was directed at them, not you, sorry if it seemed that way.
Link Posted: 1/20/2013 12:57:56 AM EDT
I havent paid attention to this at all. Was it true that there were 4 handguns used and not and AR? All the threads get locked as dupes?
Link Posted: 1/20/2013 12:59:43 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/20/2013 1:19:42 AM EDT by Dunkelzahn]

Originally Posted By InfiniteGrim:
I havent paid attention to this at all. Was it true that there were 4 handguns used and not and AR? All the threads get locked as dupes?
Not true. An AR was used to kill everyone. The only shot that came from a pistol was the one from the shooter that he used on himself.

Link Posted: 1/20/2013 1:30:32 AM EDT
The medical examiner says the kids were killed with a rifle.

This conspiracy shit is retarded.

I watched the info wars video earlier... It's retarded.

Name something that info wars doesn't try to spin into a conspiracy.

Link Posted: 1/20/2013 6:25:17 AM EDT
Link Posted: 1/20/2013 6:28:14 AM EDT
Why does it matter?

If you can't make a case for your rights independent of the actions of a deranged individual, you've already lost.
Link Posted: 1/20/2013 6:36:55 AM EDT
Originally Posted By NoVaGator:
Why does it matter?

If you can't make a case for your rights independent of the actions of a deranged individual, you've already lost.


I was composing this, but you said it better.

...and it was an AR. Any attempt to distort that fact is simply weak minded.
Link Posted: 1/20/2013 6:39:45 AM EDT
Two reasons it doesnt matter what type of firearm. Its still an atrocity, and the left would still stand on top of the corpses of 20 children to enact as much anti-gun legislation possible.


Other than shit like Honey Boo on television, 24hour newschannels cause more trouble than theyre worth. They misinform the shit out of everything trying to be the first to break something. Rememeber 9-11? CNN was reporting a full wave terrorist attack, dozens of missing airplanes, car bombs going off in the street.
Link Posted: 1/20/2013 6:41:47 AM EDT
Link Posted: 1/20/2013 6:43:04 AM EDT
ATTENTION:

THE "NBC now admits..." VIDEO IS FROM DECEMBER 15TH AND IS NOT NEW.



Link Posted: 1/20/2013 6:43:42 AM EDT
Not into the truther view of this at all.
Link Posted: 1/20/2013 6:46:08 AM EDT
Originally Posted By Potter_Sherman_T:
Originally Posted By DieselEngineer:
http://www.ct.gov/despp/cwp/view.asp?Q=517284&A=4226


Thanks for this link guys... but this is the info I mentioned in my OP that I've already been citing. Given that the info is provided by the CT State Police, the FB types I'm arguing with are discounting it as being part of the conspiracy...


Do yourself a favor...stop...just stop. Arguing with truthers is like teaching pigs to whistle..all you do is frustrate yourself and annoy the Pigs. They could show footage of lanza using the Bushmaster, and the truther asswipes would STILL insist it was just a "Part of the Conspiracy"
Link Posted: 1/20/2013 6:56:47 AM EDT
Originally Posted By AJK07734:
Originally Posted By Potter_Sherman_T:
Originally Posted By DieselEngineer:
http://www.ct.gov/despp/cwp/view.asp?Q=517284&A=4226


Thanks for this link guys... but this is the info I mentioned in my OP that I've already been citing. Given that the info is provided by the CT State Police, the FB types I'm arguing with are discounting it as being part of the conspiracy...


Do yourself a favor...stop...just stop. Arguing with truthers is like teaching pigs to whistle..all you do is frustrate yourself and annoy the Pigs. They could show footage of lanza using the Bushmaster, and the truther asswipes would STILL insist it was just a "Part of the Conspiracy"


yep, they will make you try and prove a negative, its impossible to argue with these people
Link Posted: 1/20/2013 6:59:13 AM EDT
I dont know why people think it is a saiga 12; it was a TUBE FED semi auto shotgun. hence why the police was racking the bolt to empty it.
Link Posted: 1/20/2013 7:01:27 AM EDT
Not really buying the conspiracy angle, but I do buy the shotty reporting and idiots taking advantage of the situation to get their 15 minutes of fame, reporters desperate for the scoop they don't bother the check facts before throwing it on the air.
Link Posted: 1/20/2013 7:06:26 AM EDT

Originally Posted By ttman:
I dont know why people think it is a saiga 12; it was a TUBE FED semi auto shotgun. hence why the police was racking the bolt to empty it.

From the CT gov report above:

#4. Izhmash Canta-12 12 gauge Shotgun (seized from car in parking lot)

I'm pretty sure thats a Saiga seeing how its manufactured by Izhmash
Link Posted: 1/20/2013 7:08:49 AM EDT
Originally Posted By ttman:
I dont know why people think it is a saiga 12; it was a TUBE FED semi auto shotgun. hence why the police was racking the bolt to empty it.


Idiots probably couldn't figure out how to remove the magazine.
Link Posted: 1/20/2013 7:16:52 AM EDT
Why was his brother outside behind the grassy knoll?
Link Posted: 1/20/2013 7:20:24 AM EDT
He used the gun that Al Pacino used in Heat. The gun of Rambo was found in the trunk.
Link Posted: 1/20/2013 8:09:28 AM EDT
Originally Posted By ttman:
I dont know why people think it is a saiga 12; it was a TUBE FED semi auto shotgun. hence why the police was racking the bolt to empty it.


this

video of him unloading it in the trunk shows that

so much for maintaining the evidence of a crime scene
Link Posted: 1/20/2013 9:24:41 AM EDT

Originally Posted By pighelmet:
Why was his brother outside behind the grassy knoll?

He wasn't.
Link Posted: 1/20/2013 9:31:06 AM EDT
Originally Posted By YukonBoy03:
Originally Posted By ttman:
I dont know why people think it is a saiga 12; it was a TUBE FED semi auto shotgun. hence why the police was racking the bolt to empty it.


this

video of him unloading it in the trunk shows that

so much for maintaining the evidence of a crime scene


It is such a crappy video that it is hard to tell but it looks like a saiga to me. Not really like a tube fed gun to me.
Link Posted: 1/20/2013 9:35:32 AM EDT
Originally Posted By ALASKANFIRE:
Originally Posted By YukonBoy03:
Originally Posted By ttman:
I dont know why people think it is a saiga 12; it was a TUBE FED semi auto shotgun. hence why the police was racking the bolt to empty it.


this

video of him unloading it in the trunk shows that

so much for maintaining the evidence of a crime scene


It is such a crappy video that it is hard to tell but it looks like a saiga to me. Not really like a tube fed gun to me.


Correct. It was a Saiga. Racking the bolt is a common procedure to clear any weapon, not just tube fed shotguns. Magazine was removed [not seen on video] bolt was racked 2 or three times, 1 shell comes out. Nothing to suggest tube fed there. The report cited above identifies the shotgun as a "canta 12" which is a Saiga. Read about canta 12 markings here.
Link Posted: 1/21/2013 12:19:52 AM EDT
Originally Posted By AJK07734:
Originally Posted By Potter_Sherman_T:
Originally Posted By DieselEngineer:
http://www.ct.gov/despp/cwp/view.asp?Q=517284&A=4226


Thanks for this link guys... but this is the info I mentioned in my OP that I've already been citing. Given that the info is provided by the CT State Police, the FB types I'm arguing with are discounting it as being part of the conspiracy...


Do yourself a favor...stop...just stop. Arguing with truthers is like teaching pigs to whistle..all you do is frustrate yourself and annoy the Pigs. They could show footage of lanza using the Bushmaster, and the truther asswipes would STILL insist it was just a "Part of the Conspiracy"


Thanks guys... lots of you basically saying the same thing, and I think it's the best advice. The pigs are plenty annoyed... and I'm done wasting my time.

Appreciate the input...!
Link Posted: 1/21/2013 6:43:32 AM EDT
Originally Posted By polloi:
Originally Posted By ALASKANFIRE:
Originally Posted By YukonBoy03:
Originally Posted By ttman:
I dont know why people think it is a saiga 12; it was a TUBE FED semi auto shotgun. hence why the police was racking the bolt to empty it.


this

video of him unloading it in the trunk shows that

so much for maintaining the evidence of a crime scene


It is such a crappy video that it is hard to tell but it looks like a saiga to me. Not really like a tube fed gun to me.


Correct. It was a Saiga. Racking the bolt is a common procedure to clear any weapon, not just tube fed shotguns. Magazine was removed [not seen on video] bolt was racked 2 or three times, 1 shell comes out. Nothing to suggest tube fed there. The report cited above identifies the shotgun as a "canta 12" which is a Saiga. Read about canta 12 markings here.


yeah, after watching the video again, only one shell comes out. and though there is no mag attached, it could have already been taken off
Link Posted: 1/21/2013 6:53:59 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/21/2013 6:58:52 AM EDT by GunMonkwy666]
The real issue is what perscribed drugs was this Killer taking!!!!


The real issue:



http://www.naturalnews.com/038353_gun_control_psychiatric_drugs_Adam_Lanza.html



Link Posted: 1/21/2013 7:11:45 AM EDT
Originally Posted By Lootie23:
Originally Posted By ttman:
I dont know why people think it is a saiga 12; it was a TUBE FED semi auto shotgun. hence why the police was racking the bolt to empty it.


Idiots probably couldn't figure out how to remove the magazine.


Wrong....the video shows the officer remove the magazine first and then racking the slide.
Link Posted: 1/21/2013 7:19:28 AM EDT
I don't think you can win this argument with people who will refuse all information and wish to believe there is a conspiracy. I will just note that it does not really matter. They were going to try a new AWB and magazine capacity restriction regardless of what he used. Even if it WERE a conspiracy, it's not going to change the fact that CT is claiming a bushmaster was used. Casting doubt upon its use doesn't matter, because it's a full on fact that long guns are used in murders less than handguns and we have known for years that the majority of murders by firearm are from criminals that use handguns, often with capacities of 10 or less. They were going to pursue and try to justify an AWB with a magazine capacity restriction no matter what.
Link Posted: 1/21/2013 7:19:55 AM EDT
Didn't the Lt. retract/change his statement about the guns used during one of his "interviews"?
Link Posted: 1/21/2013 7:21:11 AM EDT
Originally Posted By odfox:
I don't think you can win this argument with people who will refuse all information and wish to believe there is a conspiracy. I will just note that it does not really matter. They were going to try a new AWB and magazine capacity restriction regardless of what he used. Even if it WERE a conspiracy, it's not going to change the fact that CT is claiming a bushmaster was used. Casting doubt upon its use doesn't matter, because it's a full on fact that long guns are used in murders less than handguns and we have known for years that the majority of murders by firearm are from criminals that use handguns, often with capacities of 10 or less. They were going to pursue and try to justify an AWB with a magazine capacity restriction no matter what.


Good point
Link Posted: 1/21/2013 7:25:27 AM EDT
Originally Posted By THR-Thumper:
Originally Posted By NoVaGator:
Why does it matter?

If you can't make a case for your rights independent of the actions of a deranged individual, you've already lost.


I was composing this, but you said it better.

...and it was an AR. Any attempt to distort that fact is simply weak minded.


This.

Our argument should be that it doesn't matter what type of rifle he used.

There is no "Shall not be infringed (unless utilized by a mad man to kill people)" clause in the BOR.
Link Posted: 1/21/2013 7:25:55 AM EDT
Originally Posted By RabidMonkeyPox:
just going down the line ignoring everyone that thinks this is a conspiracy. anyone that clicks on here and reads this should do the same


I think you ARE the conspiracy. You are making money off all the tinfoil you sell to help the grassy knoll foundation. I heard JFK liked monkies and where the moon landings were filmed was called "The Pox". My god it all makes sense now. Time to fo! Man the directed free energy weapons this thread must be stopped.
Link Posted: 1/21/2013 7:27:21 AM EDT

Originally Posted By corpseknight:
The gun in the trunk was definitely a shotty. People have said Saiga 12- which I think is downright odd for a woman such as his mother to own. Perhaps it was a media prop/plant gun that some dumbfck thought was an AR due to aftermarket AR stock? There is no solid evidence either way so far other than what the news reports. We all know the news doesn't know an AR from the hole in their ass.

/tinfoilhat off


Slanted stock, charge handle on right side. Most definitely not an AR. Probably a saiga since they charge it like an AK.
Link Posted: 1/21/2013 7:30:09 AM EDT
Originally Posted By Potter_Sherman_T:
Originally Posted By DieselEngineer:
http://www.ct.gov/despp/cwp/view.asp?Q=517284&A=4226


Thanks for this link guys... but this is the info I mentioned in my OP that I've already been citing. Given that the info is provided by the CT State Police, the FB types I'm arguing with are discounting it as being part of the conspiracy...


You can't argue with conspiracy tinfoilers. It's like arguing with creationists. Any source that contradicts their position are either discounted as being "in on it" or is simply ignored. You will not convince them with evidence, because their position is held emotionally, not rationally. They WANT to believe it is a conspiracy.
Link Posted: 1/21/2013 7:50:43 AM EDT
Some of these Lanza Truther nuts are as bad as the Brevik sycophants.

The Special Ed kid of a Doomer couldn't have been a mass murderer! It had to be a conspiracy!
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