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Posted: 6/22/2016 6:54:22 PM EDT
As I see it, this is a very, very dangerous time. I am not so worried about the gun rights angle as I am about the precedent this would set.

The Second Amendment protects a right to keep and bear arms. The Seventh Amendment ensures, amongst other things, that no one shall be deprived of Liberty without due process of the law.

Conversely, the No Fly List is a secret list of people who the government fears may have ties to terrorism. No one, other than the Federal Government knows who is on this list or why the people on this list are on the list. No one knows what evidence the government used to label them, and there is no process to appeal to any authority if you feel that your name is on this list. If you're on the list, then you are on the list until (if) the government decides that you are not a threat.

Now many people in government and in general want to deprive people of a constitutionally protected Liberty based only on a secret determination by the government that you may be a terrorist. This, in my opinion is horrifyingly dangerous. This is how the Nazis, Commies and dictators all over the world operate...and in most countries, in most cases, people on these lists wound up getting a bullet.

But why stop at guns?

We have a huge problem with radicalization in this country un try. Why should we allow people who we don't trust to get on an airplane or buy a gun go into a mosque and preach their radical ideas to other susceptible minds? Why should we allow them to spread their radical ideas to young people on the Internet through social media, videos or blogs? Why should we allow them the privacy in their homes, vehicles or communications to build bombs, transport weapons and plot attacks? In fact, why should these people be allowed to move around at all without direct government supervision? Why should we risk lives by not taking care of the threats? And it's not just Muslims, what about anti-abortion radicals, environmental radicals, homophobes, racists and political radicals?

This is very dangerous. I see this as nothing short of insidious and tyrannical, and I do not think for one second that the Nazi or Communist comparisons are at all off base. This must be rejected completely and without compromise.
Link Posted: 6/22/2016 7:04:21 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 6/22/2016 7:05:06 PM EDT by PSI]
Its a great idea if you're the guy putting the names on the list.
Link Posted: 6/22/2016 7:05:35 PM EDT

Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By PSI:
Its a great idea if you're the guy putting the names on the list,
View Quote


You just have to be the one to determine what a terrorist is. Once you determine that, bureaucracy takes over.
Link Posted: 6/22/2016 7:06:05 PM EDT
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By PSI:

Its a great idea if you're the guy putting the names on the list.
View Quote


It doesn't have to be a guy, or even a person.

Link Posted: 6/22/2016 7:08:03 PM EDT
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By efpeter:



You just have to be the one to determine what a terrorist is. Once you determine that, bureaucracy takes over.
View Quote View All Quotes
View All Quotes
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By efpeter:

Originally Posted By PSI:
Its a great idea if you're the guy putting the names on the list,


You just have to be the one to determine what a terrorist is. Once you determine that, bureaucracy takes over.



Very scary thought, I'm sure NObama considers us all terrists.
Link Posted: 6/22/2016 7:09:23 PM EDT
there's been a constant loud assault on the second amendment for the 60+ years I've been walking around..we won some ground but they
are chipping away at it with jack hammers rather than chisels.

there's been growing Assault on Christians for the last 10 years getting bolder and bolder.

the last 3 or 4 years, the attack on your 1st amendment rights of Free Speech has nearly been destroyed by political correctness..and they will shut it down
given 4 more years of a Hillary presidency...with safe spaces, hate speech, trigger warnings and other collective mind fuckery.
Constitution, that dusty old thing drawn up by a bunch of sexist, homophobic, white slave owning misogynists.? throw that away that whole fluidity thing
has made it obsolete....

we're tits up and the dirts hitting our face.


But I'm an old cranky fuck that no one listens to..
Link Posted: 6/22/2016 7:09:55 PM EDT
Since the DHS dyke put veterans on the terrorist watch list..

Fuck it, lets get this revolutionary bonfire going already.
Link Posted: 6/22/2016 7:10:22 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 6/22/2016 7:10:37 PM EDT by Furthermore]
It's total BS and should be thrown out immediately based on that annoying little thing called "due process". It's a no brainer to any rational person and would likely end ultimately in a supreme court opinion being handed down. It holds no actual weight against the constitution.
Link Posted: 6/22/2016 7:12:01 PM EDT
The lists have already been scripted. They just have acted upon them yet. You know that anybody on this website is already on a list.
Link Posted: 6/22/2016 7:13:19 PM EDT
Yeah, how people get on the list is apparently some sort of subjective ministerial function, which they seem to consider carte blanche to suspend due process.
Link Posted: 6/22/2016 7:14:04 PM EDT
Agree 100%

And the left used to bitch nonstop about the blacklists in Hollywood for suspected communists back in the day.

I guess when you're in charge of the list, it's not so bad.
Link Posted: 6/22/2016 7:17:44 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 6/22/2016 7:18:34 PM EDT by Kent]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Furthermore:
It's total BS and should be thrown out immediately based on that annoying little thing called "due process". It's a no brainer to any rational person and would likely end ultimately in a supreme court opinion being handed down. It holds no actual weight against the constitution.
View Quote


+1
Let's just start calling it the "Enemies" list and get it over with already.
Link Posted: 6/22/2016 7:18:46 PM EDT
Two birds , one stone. Take away guns AND restrict travel,

Communist cornerstones.
Link Posted: 6/22/2016 7:20:39 PM EDT
You're paranoid, Democrats wouldn't never use federal laws, regulations or agencies to go after their political opponents.
Link Posted: 6/22/2016 7:21:15 PM EDT
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By douglasmorris99:
there's been a constant loud assault on the second amendment for the 60+ years I've been walking around..we won some ground but they
are chipping away at it with jack hammers rather than chisels.

there's been growing Assault on Christians for the last 10 years getting bolder and bolder..
View Quote


At least there is evidence the 2nd amendment exists.

There is no evidence that one or more of those god-thingies exist.
Link Posted: 6/22/2016 7:22:44 PM EDT
Ryan said "no laws without Due Process" to the kiddies playing on the House floor.

I believe him.

http://www.washingtonexaminer.com/paul-ryan-no-vote-on-gun-bills-that-ignore-due-process/article/2594655
Link Posted: 6/22/2016 7:22:44 PM EDT
Originally Posted By motown_steve:
As I see it, this is a very, very dangerous time. I am not so worried about the gun rights angle as I am about the precedent this would set.

The Second Amendment protects a right to keep and bear arms. The Seventh Amendment ensures, amongst other things, that no one shall be deprived of Liberty without due process of the law.

View Quote
I think you mean the 5th Amendment. 7th is right to trial by jury in civil cases. 14th extends the 5th's due process requirement to states in addition to the federal govt.

Link Posted: 6/22/2016 7:25:56 PM EDT
Wasn't there some senator(?) or congressman or a high up govt. official that got put on the list(by mistake?)?






Roy
Link Posted: 6/22/2016 7:29:00 PM EDT
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By douglasmorris99:
there's been a constant loud assault on the second amendment for the 60+ years I've been walking around..we won some ground but they
are chipping away at it with jack hammers rather than chisels.

there's been growing Assault on Christians for the last 10 years getting bolder and bolder.

the last 3 or 4 years, the attack on your 1st amendment rights of Free Speech has nearly been destroyed by political correctness..and they will shut it down
given 4 more years of a Hillary presidency...with safe spaces, hate speech, trigger warnings and other collective mind fuckery.
Constitution, that dusty old thing drawn up by a bunch of sexist, homophobic, white slave owning misogynists.? throw that away that whole fluidity thing
has made it obsolete....

we're tits up and the dirts hitting our face.


But I'm an old cranky fuck that no one listens to..
View Quote
60 years? Before the ink was even dry on the Constitution, the Government (Local, State, and Fed) was violating folks rights.
Link Posted: 6/22/2016 7:30:39 PM EDT
Democrats Tanked Gun Control To Up Their Election Chances

All four gun control proposals were voted down because of the Democrats. The Republicans in the Senate voted in favor of the bills. Rather than agree to the incremental gun control measures Republicans proposed, the Democrats chose to pass no gun control legislation at all. At some point after loudly demanding legislation for more than a week, Senate Democrats decided it would be better for their reelection prospects that no gun control bills pass the Senate during the election season. Senate Democrats rejected two incremental gun control bills for no other reason than that Republicans were voting for them.

This is why we will eventually lose. The GOP compromised and voted for incremental gun control while the Democrats played the game. The GOP will either sell us out or just out of sheer ignorance will fuck us over because they can't play politics.
Link Posted: 6/22/2016 7:32:30 PM EDT
There have been children, Fox News Reporter that had to go all the way to Congress to get off of it. The late Ted Kennedy was on it and many more. You can't challenge it because the info that got you put on it is classified and cannot be released. So how do you get off of it without an act of Congress
Link Posted: 6/22/2016 7:33:07 PM EDT
Don't worry you will only wind up on the list if you are a terrorist.

Examples:
Gun owners
Global warming deniers
NRA members
Pro life
Member of a church (not mosque)
Oppose open borders
Have ever expressed any anti government sentiment
Have anything to do with Glenn Beck
Republicans
Libertarians
LGBT (NEW)
Link Posted: 6/22/2016 7:33:12 PM EDT
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Jeepsnguns81:
You're paranoid, Democrats wouldn't never use federal laws, regulations or agencies to go after their political opponents.
View Quote
Worse, the GOP would never go create the agencies and bureaucracies that have the tools, authority, and ability to go after people. I mean.... it wasn't Republicans that created agencies like the DEA or DHS now.
Link Posted: 6/22/2016 7:34:14 PM EDT
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By rdsr:
Wasn't there some senator(?) or congressman or a high up govt. official that got put on the list(by mistake?)?

Roy
View Quote
Ted Kennedy
Link Posted: 6/22/2016 7:34:27 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 6/22/2016 7:37:32 PM EDT by brasidas]
I read today that John Lewis was on the no fly list at one point. He knows what a clusterf**k those lists are.

It just goes to show, the civil rights movement had nothing to do with civil rights.
Link Posted: 6/22/2016 7:35:37 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 6/22/2016 7:36:54 PM EDT by firemedic2000]
There have been children, Fox News Reporter that had to go all the way to Congress to get off of it. The late Ted Kennedy was on it and many more. You can't challenge it because the info that got you put on it is classified and cannot be released. So how do you get off of it without an act of Congress. That list will become one big gun control measure with no recourse to prove your innocence. That's the problem and these fools wonder why we dont trust them. They have far exceeded the 10th Amendment already

Sorry dlb tap
Link Posted: 6/22/2016 7:37:25 PM EDT
The "pro-Second Amendment" community has been doing this to itself for decades.

There are MANY people on this very website who support creating subclasses of citizenship when it comes to 2A.

Link Posted: 6/22/2016 7:38:52 PM EDT
Due Process
Link Posted: 6/22/2016 7:39:29 PM EDT
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By GovtThug:
The "pro-Second Amendment" community has been doing this to itself for decades.

There are MANY people on this very website who support creating subclasses of citizenship when it comes to 2A.

View Quote



we can't even play the long game and get behind an imperfect candidate. The left has no problem doing so and wins every time they do.
Link Posted: 6/22/2016 7:42:19 PM EDT
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By phatmax:
Two birds , one stone. Take away guns AND restrict travel,

Communist cornerstones.
View Quote


You're not wrong.
Link Posted: 6/22/2016 7:53:54 PM EDT
"Theres a man, going round,taking names"
Link Posted: 6/22/2016 7:57:21 PM EDT
The level of rhetoric and the willingness of the left to say plainly that they want our rights to be restricted concerns me. These people are pushing closer and closer to a conflict they don't seem to understand.
Link Posted: 6/22/2016 7:59:26 PM EDT
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By douglasmorris99:
there's been a constant loud assault on the second amendment for the 60+ years I've been walking around..we won some ground but they
are chipping away at it with jack hammers rather than chisels.

there's been growing Assault on Christians for the last 10 years getting bolder and bolder.

the last 3 or 4 years, the attack on your 1st amendment rights of Free Speech has nearly been destroyed by political correctness..and they will shut it down
given 4 more years of a Hillary presidency...with safe spaces, hate speech, trigger warnings and other collective mind fuckery.
Constitution, that dusty old thing drawn up by a bunch of sexist, homophobic, white slave owning misogynists.? throw that away that whole fluidity thing
has made it obsolete....

we're tits up and the dirts hitting our face.


But I'm an old cranky fuck that no one listens to..
View Quote


Link Posted: 6/22/2016 8:15:03 PM EDT
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By dorobuta:



we can't even play the long game and get behind an imperfect candidate. The left has no problem doing so and wins every time they do.
View Quote View All Quotes
View All Quotes
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By dorobuta:
Originally Posted By GovtThug:
The "pro-Second Amendment" community has been doing this to itself for decades.

There are MANY people on this very website who support creating subclasses of citizenship when it comes to 2A.




we can't even play the long game and get behind an imperfect candidate. The left has no problem doing so and wins every time they do.


There are so many candidates who are not just imperfect, they're detrimental to the 2A. And republicans still turn out to vote for them.

I have no doubt that McCain, as President, would have closed the "gun show loophole". That's not an imperfect candidate, that's an unacceptable candidate. Look how many votes he got. Look how many here supported him and voted for him. Then again, many here support universal background checks.
Link Posted: 6/22/2016 9:07:05 PM EDT
Link Posted: 6/22/2016 9:09:38 PM EDT

922o repeal as poison pill.

Link Posted: 6/22/2016 9:10:42 PM EDT
Link Posted: 6/22/2016 9:14:28 PM EDT
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By RocketmanOU:
The level of rhetoric and the willingness of the left to say plainly that they want our rights to be restricted concerns me. These people are pushing closer and closer to a conflict they don't seem to understand.
View Quote


They understand perfectly that there will be no conflict.

Oh, maybe after 80 plus years we can start having some lawyers feel around the edges of it, but that's about the totality of the fight our side is willing to put up.
Link Posted: 6/22/2016 9:16:15 PM EDT
If you post in GD regularly, you probably are on "The List".
Link Posted: 6/22/2016 9:25:25 PM EDT
Oh yeah, it's all good right up to the moment the guy in the next cubicle inserts your name on the list ...for boinkin' his hot wife while he was getting software training outta town.

Just ask some of the old East German Stasi guys about the lists they used to make.

It was never good to have your name on a list ...a bad word from someone, wrong turn on the street, wrong bar at night, a walk down the wrong alley taking a short cut home, looking at the wrong magazine or reading the wrong newspaper ...that all could get you on a list.

And then they had the lists for who was fuckin' who. Now, that was a list. Who was fuckin' who. And who was fuckin' who someone else was fuckin' too. That was another list.

And we all remember what happened when the wall crumbled ...they went for the lists to find out who was fuckin' who and there was some hell to pay if you were putting' names on those lists.

Yep. Snitches & Stitches & Ditches all over the country side. Very bad times for the list makers. Bad days for Stasi's ...

Link Posted: 6/22/2016 9:30:15 PM EDT
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Furthermore:
It's total BS and should be thrown out immediately based on that annoying little thing called "due process". It's a no brainer to any rational person and would likely end ultimately in a supreme court opinion being handed down. It holds no actual weight against the constitution.
View Quote


Ah Ha! "due process" ...ain't she a tricky little bitch to saddle up with.

I shall not repeat myself about this.

But it's the "due process" that's killing us at this time ...heh Joe?
Link Posted: 6/22/2016 9:39:45 PM EDT
Republican congress and president came up with it so it has to be good.
Link Posted: 6/22/2016 9:43:23 PM EDT
Is that how Ted Kennedy got on the list? Put a big lib on the list and watch them convulse.
Link Posted: 6/22/2016 9:43:49 PM EDT
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Dieselman:
The lists have already been scripted. They just have acted upon them yet. You know that anybody on this website is already on a list.
View Quote


I am on several vendor mailing lists. I am no longer on PSA's email list and cannot fix that problem.
Link Posted: 6/22/2016 9:47:09 PM EDT
We fucked up by tolerating the No Fly list in the first place.
Link Posted: 6/22/2016 9:49:19 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 6/22/2016 9:50:09 PM EDT by Cucumbermonkey]
If they weaponized the IRS to target political enemies, why wouldnt they use this against them too? If we ever get single payer health care, they will use that to gain leverage over political enemies too.
Link Posted: 6/22/2016 10:09:13 PM EDT
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By 1Andy2:
We fucked up by tolerating the No Fly list in the first place.
View Quote

You're not wrong.

I was against the USA Patriot Act because at the time I was afraid of what those tools would be used for if Hillary was President. Well, we might be fixin' to find out!
Link Posted: 6/22/2016 10:12:33 PM EDT
... Contact your Congressional and NRA representatives tonight and tell them to vote against it tomorrow
Link Posted: 6/22/2016 10:13:02 PM EDT

It would not stop at guns...

Ideas are more powerful than guns. We would not let our enemies have guns, why should we let them have ideas. Joseph Stalin
Link Posted: 6/22/2016 11:04:37 PM EDT
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By MitchAlsup:


At least there is evidence the 2nd amendment exists.

There is no evidence that one or more of those god-thingies exist.
View Quote View All Quotes
View All Quotes
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By MitchAlsup:
Originally Posted By douglasmorris99:
there's been a constant loud assault on the second amendment for the 60+ years I've been walking around..we won some ground but they
are chipping away at it with jack hammers rather than chisels.

there's been growing Assault on Christians for the last 10 years getting bolder and bolder..


At least there is evidence the 2nd amendment exists.

There is no evidence that one or more of those god-thingies exist.

and who the fuk are you to question anothers belief? Ive seen more than enough to believe in intelligent design...so, I will pray for you that you are right..
Link Posted: 6/23/2016 7:15:08 AM EDT
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Dieselman:
The lists have already been scripted. They just have acted upon them yet. You know that anybody on this website is already on a list.
View Quote


Those who want to enslave us forget that the people can keep lists too. In this age of near-universal surveillance, anyone who is the smallest potential threat to the regime is on a list of some kind. Might as well accept it and live your life. But be vigilant as well.
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