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Posted: 3/21/2005 7:25:43 PM EDT
I try to be sure I drop an IM to folks here when they say something exceptional in a thread or something cool in an IM... (if I don't coment IN the thread, anyway). And I have RECEIVED several cool IMs too, but TONIGHTS just... just blows me away.

He just wanted to get back to me. It had been a month or so since I IMed HIM (about the benefits of flax seed oil), I THINK he had comented in a thread he was experiencing some pain/discomfort/weirdness.

He's experiencing less fatigue.

He was having some "absentminded" stuff going on, THAT has decreased.

He was experiencing some "odd" things, the first stopped the first week, the second, last week.

He's been under a TON of stress, so he can't imagine WHY he'd be having less problems, he "can only presume that (my) flax oil research was right on the money." (Which I knew, but it's still cool to help someone!)

Its only been a month, so he can't say that everything is perfect, but he NOTICES a DIFFERENCE! Can't wait for the 3 or 6 month update! ;)

I am SO Psyched!

He may have been headed for one of the MANY (all pretty terrible) auto-immune diseases...MS, RA, Lupus, Sleroderma, Sarcadosis, Pulmonary fibrosis, Diabetes, granted, probably not for several YEARS, as he noticed a DIFFERENCE after only 1 month. Still.... it just feels amazing knowing you did good.

Man... this will probably put me in a good mood for a month! ;)
Link Posted: 3/21/2005 7:38:07 PM EDT
Link Posted: 3/21/2005 8:57:12 PM EDT
Thanks for sharing Kacer. Not only the bennifits of flax seed oil [they have me on this for my b.c.] but also your highlight here! Awesome!!

Patty
Link Posted: 3/22/2005 7:41:08 AM EDT

Originally Posted By pattymcn:
Thanks for sharing Kacer. Not only the bennifits of flax seed oil [they have me on this for my b.c.] but also your highlight here! Awesome!!

Patty



Umm... <wracking brain> b.c.?

The flax(seed) oil is 90% of what "recovered" me from my M.S., the more I dug, the more diseases/symptoms I saw could be positively impacted by it.

The "medical professionals" seem to be sold on the "fish oils" but my experiences and the results in others (including men, who have a lower conversion rate of ALA (found in flax) to DHA and EPA (found in fish) than women) make me wonder if this is simply a supposition.

Most of the studies are REALLY short (like 6 months in MANY cases...) so I wonder if the "benies" they perceive are maybe largely due to that?

I chose to go w/the flax, because the potential for heavy metals/other contaminants in the fish oils, plus the flax has omega 9's (oleic acid) as well as the omega 3's (ALA - Alpha-Linolenic Acid). Plus some omega 6's (Lenoleic Acid or maybe it's Gamma-lenoleic Acid...) Anyway... the 9's are what I THINK the "Lorenzo's Oil (the stuff that reverses some of the adrenoleukodystrophy (ALD)) is made from, though I'm not certain about that tidbit. I'm trying to recall what I saw/heard during the movie. (From like 2-4 years ago.)

Had the guy on ARFCOM have positive benefits, another woman w/MS benefit, 3 people w/diabetes, 1 guy w/collitis, a woman w/herpes 2, a woman w/ a thyroid problem (VERY likely one of the auto-immune diseases that actually EFFECT the pineal gland, not the thyroid [directly]). One woman w/fibromyligia.... others I'm pretty sure, but those are the biggies ;)

Link Posted: 3/22/2005 7:55:52 AM EDT
Thanks for the info and the IM.

You ROCK!!

Doc
Link Posted: 3/22/2005 12:18:59 PM EDT

Originally Posted By JarheadChiro:
Thanks for the info and the IM.

You ROCK!!

Doc



Anytime. When I finish the book, I'm gonna have it writen into my contract that part of my "payment" is "X" # of copies. (Whatever the agent can "wrangle" minimum 100.)

I can send you one, but I am FAR from completion... which would NOT be the case, if for every 1 "question" I find the answer to, didn't lead to 10 more Q's and at LEAST 3 more diseases! ;)
Link Posted: 3/22/2005 1:33:11 PM EDT
i have always heard good things about flax seed oil. i take it along with echinacea and a daily vitamin. they are definetly a big help whenever i remember to take them. which it hasnt been much recently but its time to get back on schedule.
Link Posted: 3/22/2005 2:24:21 PM EDT

Originally Posted By afplayboy18:
i have always heard good things about flax seed oil. i take it along with echinacea and a daily vitamin. they are definetly a big help whenever i remember to take them. which it hasnt been much recently but its time to get back on schedule.



Isn't Echinacea the one that you need to take time off for... like on 2 weeks, off 2 weks, so it doesn't build up in your system? I mean I DO (on occasion) take some (if I have a bacterial, fungal or viral infection) along w/ Goldenseal, and if it's a virus, I also make it a point to take shiitake mushrooms via diet (it stimulates your body to produce interferons which interfere w/the viral reproduction cycle) and the studies I read says that the anti-viral activity supercedes amantadine, one of the "big" anti-flu pills. (Via prescription). I just have to watch I don't take too much, as I have MS and along w/the "good" (for MS) interferons, it also stimulates the production of GAMMA interferons, which is a no-no w/MS. I can do a can every other day for a week though w/o ill effects.

Flaxseed is great, be CAREFUL what brand(s) you do though, as omega 's (which flaxseed oil is 50-60% composed of) are VERY vulnerable to heat, light and oxygen, so that's why MY preference is Nature's Bounty brand. They process the oil under a nitrogen blanket, in a cold room under YELLOW light (it's the white light that's a problem). Plus they start w/an organic seed, which seems to yiels a larger QTY of the omega 3's than say Nature Made, not AFAIK, form organic seed, which has 15mg LESS omega 3's than NB, and it also has more omega 9 (oleic Acid) though not a LOT more.

I just seem better on either Nature's Bounty or Puritan's Pride Brands.
Link Posted: 3/22/2005 9:01:17 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/22/2005 9:05:20 PM EDT by Hessian-1]
I'm intregued. Will this help with "stress related problems?"
Hessian-1out!

(edited to add: How about short term memory loss Is this a supplement taken daily? Where does one get it? etc. etc.)
Link Posted: 3/22/2005 9:16:36 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Kacer:

Originally Posted By pattymcn:
Thanks for sharing Kacer. Not only the bennifits of flax seed oil [they have me on this for my b.c.] but also your highlight here! Awesome!!

Patty



Umm... <wracking brain> b.c.?



Breast Cancer.


She is a hell of a great girl too.
Link Posted: 3/23/2005 7:22:26 AM EDT
Hessian-1,

Yes. Actually, when it comes to ASTRESS, omega 3 deficiency is a VICIOUS cycle. The FEWER omega 3's you have "available" in your system, the WORSE you "deal" with stress, and the more "stressed out" you get. The worse you DEAL with stress, and the more stress you are IN, the MORE omega 3's your body "uses up".

Next year the FDA is going to "do" an RDA for omega 3's. Bush signed it back in... I think 2001. Last I heard, it was to be 2G/day. Though TECHNICALLY, I only get about 1.175G of omega 3's a day, and I have MS (except NOW, during "allergy season", I take 3X that to keep the disease "in check") so 2g/day seems a bit "high" to me. There are no SIGNIFICANT contraindications to taking the omega 3's, some people reported some minor "gastric disturbances" I have found that decreasing the intake of less-natural carbohydrates (the ones in tomatoes okay, those in potato chips not as "okay" ;)

I would TEND to say if you are a "healthy" individual w/no symptoms to speak of of omega 3 deficiency, 1G (1000mg) of flax oil should "sustain" you, and keep you OUT of "trouble". If you DO have problems indicative of omega 3 deficiency, 2G of flax oil a day should be sufficient, BUT if you have allergies, take more like 2-6G/day during that allergy season.

I obtain my omega 3's by taking 2G of flax(seed) oil/day. _I_ prefer either Nature's Bounty Brand (found HERE (OH) at K-Mart, Kroger, CVS, Rite-Aid, Walgreens) or Puritan's Pride (Mail-order).

And I and MANY others have seen improvement in short-term memory loss, yes. The guy on here who prompted me to start this thread said that just after a month of suplimentation, he saw a difference. It took me 6 months to see a difference, but then, I can be a bit "thickheaded" Plus my MS was BAD, and I believe that the omega 3's had "more important" things to do.

I'd avoid Swanson, and Sundown w/regard to the omega 3's... if you have NO LUCK finding the NB or the PP, next best, IME is Nature made, but it is a SOLID C- compared to the NB & PP's A+

Also, an aside, Harvard did a study on omega 3's and bi-polar there was a "control" group that was getting a placebo, the other group was getting 6G/day of pharmaceutical grade omega 3's. It was supposed to last, I BELIVE either 8 or 12 months. Some of the people in BOTH groups were on meds for the bipolar, some were NOT. The results were SO pronounced after just 4 months, the study was STOPPED as they did not believe it would be ethical to continue to WITHHOLD the omega 3's from the placebo group.

Not "stress" per se, but certainly "related".


Originally Posted By Hessian-1:
I'm intregued. Will this help with "stress related problems?"
Hessian-1out!

(edited to add: How about short term memory loss Is this a supplement taken daily? Where does one get it? etc. etc.)



Duh...Breast Cancer... time for another IM ;)

There is a LOT of research with regard to the omega 3's and cancer in GENERAL, but another important component that is actually found in GREAT quantities in the HULLS of flax seeds is a phytochemical called a "lignan" that has significant "anti-tumor" effects.


Puritan's Pride Catalog may be obtained by calling 1-800-730-5310 OR 1-800-652-0671. This is their "Annual" 70% off catalog. I BELIEVE it is only good (the prices) through 4-30-05. After that, it's less expensive FOR ME to wait for one or more of the stores to do a "Buy 1 get one free" sale on the NB brand and stock up then. Thogh I am only able to obtain the "High Lignan" oil sporadically....in STORES, so I tend to "stock up" a years supply at the beginning of each year and I store it in the freezer.

High Lignan Flaxseed Oil
Link Posted: 3/23/2005 8:27:34 AM EDT
Tagged for more study.
Link Posted: 3/24/2005 7:10:37 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Green_Ammo_223:

Originally Posted By Kacer:

Originally Posted By pattymcn:
Thanks for sharing Kacer. Not only the bennifits of flax seed oil [they have me on this for my b.c.] but also your highlight here! Awesome!!

Patty



Umm... <wracking brain> b.c.?



Breast Cancer.


She is a hell of a great girl too.



Takes one to know one! Thanks Green_Ammo_223! And thank you Kacer for the private links and help, You're right on and it makes me feel good my oncologist is too!

Patty
Link Posted: 3/24/2005 7:19:44 PM EDT
Two absolutely stunning and out of place remarks here.....
Kacer.....keep doing whatever it is that makes you better. Ok?
Patty may I curse for a minute....damn desease to the ninth pit of hell. This is like saying the mona lisa has mildew....a damn work of art is infected? Do whatever you need to also and know that we got you r back....or your front.......!!!!
Link Posted: 3/24/2005 7:26:59 PM EDT
thank you hound! Patty
Link Posted: 3/25/2005 10:18:31 AM EDT
Thanks Kacer for the info
Link Posted: 3/25/2005 11:19:08 AM EDT

Originally Posted By pattymcn:
And thank you Kacer for the private links and help, You're right on and it makes me feel good my oncologist is too!

Patty



I'm glad your oncologist is bright enough, and detective enough to have put you ON it... Long story short good docs EXIST, they are just far apart and few between. My Grandmother's cousin has Sjogen's (Dry eyes) it was bad enough that it was affecting her sight badly. I did some quick research, gave her a list of things she needed to be on. Omega 3's being the MAIN one, she went to her doc, he commentented he didn't think that had anything to do with it. BUT Next time she saw him he was like, "Do you remember when you asked me about the omega 3's... well, I've been doing some scientific research, and apparently she was right." and gabve her a list that LARGELY matched my own, with the exception he put in more "pharmaceutical" brand name stuff (understandable) while I have largely consulted comsumerlabs.com and experimented on myself to get the best / most effective brands that are still AFFORDABLE.

So she's getting better, for about 3X the cost... but her mind is at ease and they can mostly "afford" the extra expense.... plus she doesn't have to take as many pills as she would otherwise, even though she's getting the same basic components.... because they "combine" pills 1,2 & 3....into 1... etc...


Originally Posted By hound:
Two absolutely stunning and out of place remarks here.....
Kacer.....keep doing whatever it is that makes you better. Ok?
Patty may I curse for a minute....damn desease to the ninth pit of hell. This is like saying the mona lisa has mildew....a damn work of art is infected? Do whatever you need to also and know that we got you r back....or your front.......!!!!



hound, absolutely. 99% of it NOW is avoiding milk during allergy season and taking my flax seed oil regularly.


Originally Posted By Gamma762:
Thanks Kacer for the info



Anytime.


BTW, I heard back from the gent who prompted me to start this thread.

Aparently, the other "odd" things that were occuring (prior to our on-line discussion) had prompted him to see a doc. The doc aparently told him that it could be ALS, MS or Parkinson'd in the VERY early stages, but to determine that, it would take about 20 grand in tests... he said "no thanks".

So NOW I'm even MORE "pumped", as I likely saved him from having to deal w/a VERY serious illness like I had to, but it got serious ENOUGH that I think he'll stay on the omega 3's so he won't ever HAVE to. Feels good. Even though I wouldn't trade my experiences w/the MS, I also wouldn't wish them on anyone. Okay... well, I'm no there area a few politicians....... Most in Ohio... one in S.C. or is it N.C.?

Link Posted: 3/25/2005 3:15:38 PM EDT
FWIW,,,I've been studying the effects of Omega 3/6 ratio in chicken feed, since I raise chickens....

Time to add flax seed oil to my diet too.

Gwen, the old hen :)
Link Posted: 3/25/2005 6:42:18 PM EDT
Kacer thank you for the private IMs - I'm going to studying them. Now that you've taken care of me and my autistic son, have any ideas for my daughter who has suffered from Migraines and PMS and my husband with no sex drive?

Patty
Link Posted: 3/25/2005 7:24:55 PM EDT

Originally Posted By GwenInLA1:
FWIW,,,I've been studying the effects of Omega 3/6 ratio in chicken feed, since I raise chickens....

Time to add flax seed oil to my diet too.

Gwen, the old hen :)



Yep. Also if you study the egg production, you will ALSO see that the eggs that those hens being fed omega 3 produce are 12X more nutritious (per the omega 3's) than eggs produced by the standard "corn" diets. (More or less). Which is where we get the omega 3 rich eggs, and ALL of this is going to TRUELY "hit the fan" and be a BIG deal, as more and more consumers are going to DEMAND omega 3 rich foods.

I mean I cannot FIND a disease/disorder that could NOT be eliminated or helped DRASTICALLY by the omega 3's. I mean there's a topic over in "general" about an autistic 17y.o. who was brutalized by police who believed he was a prowler, and he was the "non-verbal" type of autistic, so they took THAT the wrong way, and it was just a huge mess. AUTISM is one of the disorders that could likely (VERY VERY likely) be positively impacted by omega 3's. Frankly _I_ think it would 100% reverse it in 7 years or less.

I KNOW ADD it can/has, bi-polar, Parkinson's, all of the "auto-immune" diseases (and, IMO this is an incorrect term - but that's getting REAL "deep" ;) Sjogren's, Psoriasis, Lupus, Heart disease, it's even pretty well been "proven" to aid women in carrying a baby TO TERM. (Who have experienced "premies" in the past), I'm convinced that BOTH "low sperm count" and women miscarrying are tied into the deficiency of omega 3's...

It's REALLY just insane how MUCH this has negatively affected us all. And it's because the omega 3's are used in SO many ways in SO many "systems" (eyes, brain, kidneys, intestines, immune system, bladder, EVERY CELL IN THE BODY is surrounded by DHA (one of the omega 3's).

And 7 years ago, there were MAYBE a dozen articles - well, LINKS on Google, I believe there were like 4 or 5 "articles" they were just listed on a dozen sites. (in scientific journals) investigating Omega 3's and MS, now there are around 700 when one does a google search (using the word "abstract" to try to eliminate the BS "buy my shit" sites. ;)

So I figure another 5-15 years before the SHTF in the medical community in such a way that it will actually IMPACT REAL people. I figure, let's beat them to the punch. ;)
Link Posted: 3/25/2005 9:11:38 PM EDT

Originally Posted By pattymcn:
Kacer thank you for the private IMs - I'm going to studying them. Now that you've taken care of me and my autistic son, have any ideas for my daughter who has suffered from Migraines and PMS and my husband with no sex drive?

Patty



Yeah... I KNOW it's gonna "get old" but the PMS and MIGRAINES - both... wait for it... Omega 3 deficiencies! The "food companies" have REALLY (unknowingly) screwed us but GOOD. (processed the omega 3's OUT of food because it goes rancid so easilly.) HOWEVER I do think that they are catching on a BIT faster than the docs, as I see more and more foods w/omega 3's.

The hubby problem depends. is it a "lift" problem? Or an "interest" problem? Either way, the omega 3 supplimentation ain't gonna _HURT_. As this is SO not something I'm actually concerned with... ;) I'll have to look into it, but it won't take me long... just give me a bit "more" to go on (Unless you were just kidding ;)
Link Posted: 3/26/2005 9:01:51 PM EDT
Thanks Kacer...

I make sure my chickens have the proper feed, including omega-3 sources...so the family has healthier eggs. Just bought flaxseed oil gelcaps for the family today. Every bit of nutritional info helps, methinks.

Thanks for your prompt reply to my IM, found info I needed.

Blessings, and good health to you!

Gwen

Link Posted: 3/27/2005 6:00:44 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/30/2005 11:34:34 AM EDT by Kacer]

Originally Posted By GwenInLA1:
Thanks Kacer...

I make sure my chickens have the proper feed, including omega-3 sources...so the family has healthier eggs. Just bought flaxseed oil gelcaps for the family today. Every bit of nutritional info helps, methinks.

Thanks for your prompt reply to my IM, found info I needed.

Blessings, and good health to you!

Gwen




Gwen,

Absolutely! And same to you and yours Gwen :) And any Q's - ask ANYTIME. Though I DO sometimes not "drop in" here for a week or so at a time (just not so much lately.)
Link Posted: 3/30/2005 10:21:33 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Kacer:

Originally Posted By JarheadChiro:
Thanks for the info and the IM.

You ROCK!!

Doc



Anytime. When I finish the book, I'm gonna have it writen into my contract that part of my "payment" is "X" # of copies. (Whatever the agent can "wrangle" minimum 100.)

I can send you one, but I am FAR from completion... which would NOT be the case, if for every 1 "question" I find the answer to, didn't lead to 10 more Q's and at LEAST 3 more diseases! ;)



You're writing a book Kacer?

Let us know when it's published!!

Oh btw - I've been taking omega 3's for a while and I am convinced they also have a beneficial effect on mood. Good stuff!
Link Posted: 3/30/2005 10:58:55 AM EDT
Kacer,

You posted this at a perfect time. I am researching methods to lower my cholesterol and read yesterday that taking 500mg of flax seed oil will help. I had been taking Zocor but have been experiencing a lot of muscle pain the past few months. I tend to think it may be the medicine although I had blood work done last week that says otherwise. Do you know anything about this (cholesterol and flax seed oil)?
Link Posted: 3/30/2005 11:30:51 AM EDT

Originally Posted By livefreeordieNH:

Originally Posted By Kacer:

Originally Posted By JarheadChiro:
Thanks for the info and the IM.

You ROCK!!

Doc



Anytime. When I finish the book, I'm gonna have it writen into my contract that part of my "payment" is "X" # of copies. (Whatever the agent can "wrangle" minimum 100.)

I can send you one, but I am FAR from completion... which would NOT be the case, if for every 1 "question" I find the answer to, didn't lead to 10 more Q's and at LEAST 3 more diseases! ;)



You're writing a book Kacer?

Let us know when it's published!!

Oh btw - I've been taking omega 3's for a while and I am convinced they also have a beneficial effect on mood. Good stuff!



Yeah, it (right now, anyway) is called: "The Human Body:An Owner's Manual"... will probably HAVE to make it "Volume I" as I have gleaned SO MUCH info! And it just started out as "Shit, I have MS, I'm going blind, I have ZERO energy, and the docs tell me they have NO idea what causes it, nor do they REALLY have effective means of treatment, and I can expect to worsen, NOT "get better". Great." Did some research, kinda in my "bass ackwards" thinking no where NEAR the box sort of way, and EVERYTHING pointed to omega 3 fatty acid deficiency. - a CRITICAL deficiency. Logically, it even "explained" why a FEW promising treatments worked with SOME, and not with others. But if it were THIS SIMPLE, why hadn't the medical profession figured it out?

It made NO sense to me, but, I was 33, and for all tense and purposes, my life was OVER, done, nada, kaput. My Wednesady "chore" was to change the kitty litter boxes, because I could only change ONE, then I'd have to lay down for 30-90 minutes before I had the strengthy/energy to change the OTHER one, my mother was picking up my laundry, because if _I_ tried to do it, I'd pass out, bending over to get things out of the dryer. I pretty much figured that I had MAYBE another year before we'd HAVE to go with a nursing home, that was if I was fortunate to last that long. So, having NOTHING to loose, I started on the omega 3's and some other suppliments that seemed "probable" to contribute in a positive way. About 6 moths later, I was walking (not crawling, so, improvement) down the hall when it occurred to me it was 8 in the morning, and I (for the past couple years) NEVER had the "umph" to get up before 10am. Being thick-headed, it took THAT "revelation" for it to occur to me that I actually didn't feel TOO bad, comparatively speaking.

About 2 weeks later I woke at sometime in the 3am hour and remembered a phone number I had not called in well over 8 years. I went back to sleep and in the morning, it was still "there". Prior to this my long and short term memory were BOTH very poor, so THAT was improving. My eyesight (that I was told by a "doctor" - specialist, even) would NEVER be better than 20/1000 EVER again (It was 20/40) had been improving and was now 20/40 to 20/100 when I'd "flare" (get overheated, overtired, etc...) eventually the "flares" would come, but the sight remained 20/40 even during them. THAT was when I knew I had AT LEAST figured out 90-95% of the disease.

A LOT of my info came from studying OTHER diseases, with the same, or similar symptoms (just in different "clusters"/configurastions.

And they (medicos) have pretty much PROVEN that the omega 3's DO aid in many "Mood" related disorders including ADD, ADHD, Bi-polar, Schitzophrenia, Clinical depression, etc.... just do the following Google search:

(disease/disorder name, in " " if more than 1 word) "Omega 3" abstract

Link Posted: 3/30/2005 1:00:04 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/30/2005 1:14:35 PM EDT by Kacer]

Originally Posted By Ogre_4070:
Kacer,

You posted this at a perfect time. I am researching methods to lower my cholesterol and read yesterday that taking 500mg of flax seed oil will help. I had been taking Zocor but have been experiencing a lot of muscle pain the past few months. I tend to think it may be the medicine although I had blood work done last week that says otherwise. Do you know anything about this (cholesterol and flax seed oil)?



Ogre_4070,

YES! Flaxseed oil, WILL help w/your cholesterol. It depends upon various factors, but EVERYONE sees a drop in triglycerides (which, IMO, is the worst of the 3), and a RAISE in HDLs (the "good" cholesterol) however, it will depend upon OTHER factors whether or not yu see a significant DROP in your LDLs ("bad" artery-clogging cholesterol). Go for 6 months, though I would strongly suggest 1000mg of Flaxseed oil, and I would suggest VERY strongly to get Nature's Bounty Brand, or Puritan's Pride Brand, as, IMO these are the BEST QUALITY for the BEST Cost. Around here, K-Mart, Krogers, CVS, Rite Aid and Walgreen's carry the NB brand. AND, at least around HERE, every 1-4 months these stores do a Buy 1 get 1 free" sale on NBB. PP is only per mail-order. I would highly suggest you NOT get Swanson nor Sundown brands. As I have reason to believe they are inferrior in quality.

IF you see no lowering in your LDLs and your doc sees a problem w/it's levels, IM me in 6 months or so (if it's STILL a problem by then) and let me know, I probably have some suggestions, but you should, IME only impliment 1 change for every 6 months at FIRST then every 2 months, just to be CERTAIN what IS and is NOT "making a difference".

I know that the elasticity of the arterial system is improved w/flax(seed) oil suplimentation. IMO, that is one of the larger reasons why it aids w/heart health.

Take a look at:

Nutrotion Journal

There's also a few papers I cannot find even the abstracts for: but the titles are pretty self-explanatory:

Whole flaxseed consumption lowers serum LDL-cholesterol and lipoprotein(a) concentrations in postmenopausal women,

Reduction of serum cholesterol and hypercholesterolemic atherosclerosis by secoisolariciresinol diglucoside isolated from flaxseed. (Translation: Reduction of serum cholesterol and high colesterol

Now, there was THIS study, which, IMO was done VERY, VERY POORLY. I would NEVER (in any instance I can THINK of, anyway) EVER suggest 30G/day of Flax oil! 2G/day "cured" (85-90%) MY MS! The most I EVER do is 6G/day, and that is in exceptional circumstances! But, FWIW:

Kaminskas, A., Levachev, M. M., Lupinovich, V. L., & Kuchinskene, Z. (1992). Effect of linseed oil on fatty acid composition of low- and verylow-density lipoproteins and cholesterol in plasma of patients withdiabetes mellitus. Voprosy Pitaniya, (5-6), 13-14.
(c) 1996 CAB International. All rts. reserv.

For 2 months, 20 patients with compensated diabetes for 10 to 15 years were given flax oil 30 g daily with their normal diet. Flax oil caused a slight decrease in plasma total cholesterol but produced a significant increase in the concentrations of high density lipoproteins and of omega -3 polyunsaturated fatty acids of lipoproteins, only in 6 of the patients. The effect of flax oil was attributed to low alpha -6-desaturase activity in most of the patients. The necessity to use other sources of omega -3 acids (fish oil in particular) in the dietary treatment of diabetes is indicated.
Blood Lipids/ Polyenoic Fatty Acids/ Flax/ Diabetes/ Lipoproteins/ Cholesterol/ Blood/ Linseed Oil/ Intake/ Low Density Lipoprotein/ Very Low Density Lipoprotein/ Composition/ Fatty Acids/ Man/ Linum Usitatissimum / safety.

Now comes the really "bizzarro" part of the equation. Do you get much sunlight? If "no", is it because (like used to be for me) it is largely due to sun "intollerance"? (You burn easy?) IF YES. The flax seed oil supplimentation will HELP raise your tollerance to sunlight, however, if you are ANYWHERE as "pasty" as _I_ was, it MAY take a while (I REALLY noticed the difference after 2 years of supplimentation) in my "sunlight tollerance".

Sunlight determines (largely) whether squalene, the precursor to both vitamin D and cholesterol, converts into vitamin D (in the presence of enough sunshine) or into excessive cholesterol (if sunlight is deficient.) [Grimes DS. Sunlight, cholesterol and coronary heart disease. Quarterly J Medicine 1996;89:579-589.]

SO, IF your LDL remains "uncomfortably" HIGH.... THIS COULD BE the reason why - or PART of the reason. Abnormal Liver function ALSO could be a contributing factor, and on and on. We can figure out (IF NECESSARY) what factor it is for YOU. So keep in touch ;) But flax oil (omega 3) and sunlight are the 2 most likely/easily fixed factors. Also the most easilly identifiable ones. I mean YOU know if you get much sunlight or not.... (I was likely to be mistaken for a vampire, I avoided it to such an extreme ;) NOW, I can be in FULL SUNLIGHT for like 2 hours with NO ill effects. I NO LONGER burrn and peel (15 minutes full direct sunlight was in years past, a problem).
Link Posted: 3/30/2005 4:54:21 PM EDT
Thank you for the info. My high cholesterol is a hereditary problem - the liver produces too much. My 'good' cholesterol is low and the 'bad' is way too high. I am 'high risk' because a sibling had a heart attack at 41. Diet and exercise is not enough to keep it down. I am almost positive that the Nature's Bounty Brand is sold in the area so I will try that.

I have no problems tanning and I try to get as much sun as I can because I have 'seasonal depression'. If I stay inside for a few days or it's rainy, my mood gets pretty bad. A few hours in the sun works better than a bottle of anti-depressants. I spent most of the day outside today and it was great! Well, except for my allergies.

Anyway, thanks again and I will let you know how things go.

Link Posted: 3/30/2005 5:58:15 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Ogre_4070:
Thank you for the info. My high cholesterol is a hereditary problem - the liver produces too much. My 'good' cholesterol is low and the 'bad' is way too high. I am 'high risk' because a sibling had a heart attack at 41. Diet and exercise is not enough to keep it down. I am almost positive that the Nature's Bounty Brand is sold in the area so I will try that.

I have no problems tanning and I try to get as much sun as I can because I have 'seasonal depression'. If I stay inside for a few days or it's rainy, my mood gets pretty bad. A few hours in the sun works better than a bottle of anti-depressants. I spent most of the day outside today and it was great! Well, except for my allergies.

Anyway, thanks again and I will let you know how things go.




Thanks.

I might have a couple other suggestions in a few days, but the SADD and general "depresive" tendencies SHOULD resolve at least somewhat, ad SADD IS a "sign" of an omega 3 fatty acid (best known source flax seed oil) deficiency. There are SEVERAL studys (most use fih oil, though I'm not as "sold" on the efficacy of fish oil OVER flax seed oil as the docs seem to be. Plus theres the contamination issue if one goes w/the fish, anecdotally I've seen/heard better results from the flax than the fish, but not any "scientific" studies, per se. PLUS, I think that the docs TEND to like the fish oil better mostly because their studies TEND to be so short? I'd rather do some thing CORRECTLY more than I'd like to do it RAPIDLY.

And, anytime. Good luck.
Link Posted: 4/13/2005 4:08:22 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 4/13/2005 4:10:32 PM EDT by Kacer]
Okay, I'm all pumped again! (I know, doesn't take much ;)

Long story shorter, I had to do shopping in "the big city" (I live in the Ohio sticks) yesterday, so I ran by Trader Joe's because it was on my way, and JT, StonerStudent's partner had brought me these Soybean and flaxseed (the whole seed) tortilla chips, and I had really liked them, and they were low(er) carb than reg. chips etc... my grandparents LOVED them, and my grandmother's BEST friend, (and a lady I adore as a long-time family friend) also liked them. (She and I also REALLY like the same hymns, which is just further "endearing" ;)

Well, they were only $1.99/bag, so I got 4 bags. I took one by her home, and she invited me in to visit a bit. Insisted on paying me for them, I kept protesting until I saw it was hopeless, and took the $2.

Anyway, she's been on the ground flax seeds for a wile now, (I'd have to look it up, but I'm thinking like 9 months, give or take. At 6 months, she asked me (when we were in between Sunday School and Church) if tnhe flaxseed could have affected her thyroid (hers under produces/releases whatever thyroids are supposed to release). _I_ initially thought she meant in a BAD way, and was freaking a bit, at the time, then I figured out she was meaning a positive way. (whew!) I didn't KNOW, as I had never run across anything, but told her I'd check it out and call her. Found out YES, although it REALLY "fixes" the Pineal gland, which is what TELLS the thyroid WHAT to release, and how much etc...

We decided that her doc needed to see if her thyroid meds needed adjusted DOWN. A week or 2 later, YEP! so she went from a .75 - dose to a .5 dose of (whatever med). I figure by around May or June it will likely need adjusted to .25.

During THIS visit, I find out that Carol, a woman about 10ish years older than I, who has been in a wheelchair for probably almost 20 years now (due to MS) had started on the flax(seed) oil, about 6 months ago as I had strongly suggested, and that HER thyroid meds (I didn't even KNOW she had thyroid problems) had been adjusted down TOO!

As if THAT wasn't enough (and it was - I've got shivers now, just typing this) Mary - my grandmother's best friend had THOUGHT her eyesigt was getting WORSE because she was having more and more trouble READING, last week, on a trip to the opthomologist, she found out that she couldn't see as well, because they were getting BETTER, and the prescription was TOO STRONG for her improved sight!!!

Now, I've gotta figure out how to circumvent Carol's daughter, Amy, so I can get Carol OFF of milk products (cream and butter are fine) AND get her ON octacosanol, so her body can repair the damaged myelin (the stuff damaged in MS) so maybe in 3-4 years she can begin getting OUT of that damn chair! And get her sight repaired, etc... so my brain is just bouncing about this, and there are SO many people who I've NO idea how to contact (met them at health food stores, or Meijer's or wherever and shared MY experiences, and how _I_ got better, they had friends/relatives etc.. who have MS...

I'm just...PSYCHED.... and SO grateful to God for guiding me to this, for blessing me with MS, so I could be properly motivated to figure this out, for providing assistance in the way of others, especially Roger McDougal (a man who cured himself of MS long ago, he's passed since, well into his 80's or early 90's) - he didn't know the "mechanics" of why what he did worked, only that it had. And Ashton F. Embry and Dave Q. who helped influence my research. I am just SO humbled that He would choose me to reveal all of this to, and feel so inadequate to see to it that this research reaches the people....that it could help... and I Know I HAVE helped MANY, and if I EVER get this book done, HOPEFULLY that will help many MORE... I'm just a bit on overload right now... but in a 90% positive way... and once I am able to "settle down", all of this WILL be a strong motivator.... it just... I've SO MUCH to do, in regard to firearm rights, and natural HEALTH... and I just SO learn from EBVERYTHING, and I thank God for that too... I just do NOT see ANYTHING as negative anymore (at least not for very long) because the WORST thing and the BEST thing that has EVER happened to me are one in the same...my MS. It JUST simply depends upon HOW one deals with alleged "negatives".

I mean, God also blessed me with a MEAN stubborn streak, and that is USUALLY seen as a very negative trait, and oftentimes, justifiably, but without it, I do NOT think that I would be 80-90% cured of the MS, nor would I have been able to help at least a dozen people on THIS board, a couple SCORE in my hometown area, nor (hopefully) the many strangers who I hope have benefitted from my experiences...

Anyway, I'm just a tad overwhelmed, but in case anyone here is dealing w/thyroid or vision problems, I wanted to share these.

And any here who are Christian, if you could also put in a good "word" in your prayers, for Him to help continue in guiding me, and using me as He sees fit...I'd appreciate it.

Thanks!

Kacer

Edited a couple typos ;)
Link Posted: 4/13/2005 4:39:25 PM EDT
I really appreciate the info you have provided, I'm giving the Omega3's a try. Course it's only been a couple weeks so far, but we'll see how it goes

The problems with milk products that you mention, is that mostly specific to MS? I drink a lot of milk...
Link Posted: 4/13/2005 5:17:31 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Gamma762:
I really appreciate the info you have provided, I'm giving the Omega3's a try. Course it's only been a couple weeks so far, but we'll see how it goes

The problems with milk products that you mention, is that mostly specific to MS? I drink a lot of milk...



Yes, the milk is specific to MS and Diabetes. But while it is an "irritant" to those w/diabetes, it can be VERY detrimental to those w/MS - some big researchers in the MS research arena have determined that milk CAN CAUSE an attack to occur in people w/MS, because of a substance IN MILK (but not really in cream or butter) called butyrophilin. They THINK it is due to a process called "molecular mimicry" (IOW, mistaken identity, immune system of a person w/MS "sees" the butyrophilin, THINKS it is "dangerous" the mast cells, T-cells etc.. "mobilize" against the butyrophilin to "kill" it before it "harms" the organism, once the butyrophilin is "gone" a t-cell "sees" the myelin" it looks "pretty much the same" and attacks IT - causing disability. Essentially).

Milk has it's problems, but it's a GOOD source of calcium, and NOW (really after about 2 years on flax) I started doing milk again, IN MODERATION. And just avoid (most of) it during allergy season (like now).

And Calcium and magnesium deficiency, (and I've not delved QUITE far enough to say this with a LOT of conviction) are the 2 most LIKEY "causes" of osteoporosis (sp?)... so I suggest a good cal/mag/zinc suppliment to folks who stop the milk.

And really, flax/omega 3 is NOT (typically) a "quick fix" BUT it IS fixing the underlying PROBLEM. I usually see results manifest STRONGEST 6 months in. That seems to be when it is TOTALLY OBVIOUS that something good is occuring. The guy who prompted this thread was just YOUNG enough and FORTUNATE enough that he saw sufficient results to "get it" in 1 month (give or take a few days).

A woman w/MS in Columbus saw a significant improvement in 2 months... enough to "get it"... I'm thick, took me 6 months ;) And EVEN THEN, I had to stop the flax for about a month on 4 seperate occasions (and suffer "attacks" in order to PROVE to myself WHAT was indeed doing "it" - and generally figure out more about the disease, myself and how to "fix" both.
Link Posted: 4/13/2005 7:28:20 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Gamma762:
I really appreciate the info you have provided, I'm giving the Omega3's a try. Course it's only been a couple weeks so far, but we'll see how it goes

The problems with milk products that you mention, is that mostly specific to MS? I drink a lot of milk...




Milk is an excellent source of calcium but, it's not readily ad/absorbed by adult humans!

The problem lies with the removal of the enzyme (Lactodehydrogenase) that we produe only while weening, hence the widespread knowledge of "lactose intolerane".
This enzyme is in limited supply in adults and because of this the body produes excess mucous to buffer from the effect.
The buffering effect is the body lowering the acidic enviroment which is needed for the catabloism of Ca.

Along with growth hormones and antibiotics, my advice is milk is a poor choice of anything beneficial.
YMMV.

How many other animals drink the milk from another animal, post weening stages?



Link Posted: 4/14/2005 3:03:55 AM EDT
JarheadChiro,

Yeah, I don't much like the info I HAVE seen on milk... but aside from the MS/Diabetes connection... I've not really delved into it enough to really have an informed opinion.

Besides, I LOVE cheese ;)

Thanks for the intel though! :)
Link Posted: 4/14/2005 2:40:05 PM EDT
Excellent news Kacer, you should share with everyone that website you sent me too. They're having a "buy one bottle, get two free" sell, which is pretty darn good!

Patty
Link Posted: 4/14/2005 8:48:42 PM EDT

Originally Posted By pattymcn:
Excellent news Kacer, you should share with everyone that website you sent me too. They're having a "buy one bottle, get two free" sell, which is pretty darn good!

Patty



Per Patty's suggestion:

Now this is Puritan's Pride Brand, it and Nature's Bounty are made by the same "parent" company. They use the same flax, same softgels, same process.

I just like THIS now, because the $$ is GREAT right now (and periodically their specials are the same, or similar.)

Also, he high lignan flax oil NB MAKES but I can never find it in the stores.

The lignans are important if you are AT ALL suceptible to cancer. (And, won't HURT anything if you're NOT) as they have a strong anti-tumor effect, in that they do NOT allow cancer cells to reproduce. They are a phytochemical that scientists have proven is a good, soild anticancer agent.

I have a BIT of cancer in my extended family, so I do 1 of the non-lignan and 1 of the high lignan/day But I'm VERY unlikely to ever have a problem as my grandmother and mother have NOT had problems (but my grandmother's 2 sisters had BC. but they caught it in time).

In 2006 the FDA will be announcing an RDA for Omega 3's (a Bush kudos - as he signed the order). Last I heard the RDA was going to be 2G/day. But if you eat a pretty diverse diet, and have NO discernable "ailments" I think 1G/day should be sufficient. But "play" w/it if 1 isn't helping w/energy, memory etc...I found that 2G/day works for me and I have MS. Though during allergy season I TYPICALLY do 4G/day, but this year is a BAD allergy year, so I'm taking 6G/day (they've done a 1 year study I'm aware of... keep looking for a longer one at 10G/day, and there was no problems aside from minor gastric disturbances. I don't notice that until 8G/day, YMMV. Or w/fish oil, which is why I "do" flax instead, plus there are just MORE omega 3's in flax, and the additional "bonuses" IMO of the omega 6's and 9's ;)

Here's the "normal" Flax oil. A years' supply at 1G/day is a WHOLE 2.78 cents a day! Or at 2, a BIT over 5-1/2 cents a day.... el-cheapo! (For the "good stuff!" ;)

Flax oil

And here's the high lignan Flax oil: A WHOLE 3.33 cents/day for 1G/day, and 6.67 cents a day for 2G/day!

High Lignan Flax Oil

Oh, ansd I'd suggest keeping it in either your freezer or at least your fridge. (I keep mine in the freezer).



Link Posted: 6/15/2005 7:30:36 PM EDT
Feedback :)

I started the Omega 3 (Trader Joe's brand) in late March....

Realized last night about midnight that my eye fatigue is gone...hadn't had symptoms since at least last week. The only change to my diet or lifestyle has been the Omega 3.

Considering my job and some hobbies involve computer work and close work (sewing, beading) this is a real boon--besides being *comfortable*.

Thanks again, Kacer

Link Posted: 6/19/2005 4:08:11 PM EDT

Originally Posted By GwenInLA1:
Feedback :)

I started the Omega 3 (Trader Joe's brand) in late March....

Realized last night about midnight that my eye fatigue is gone...hadn't had symptoms since at least last week. The only change to my diet or lifestyle has been the Omega 3.

Considering my job and some hobbies involve computer work and close work (sewing, beading) this is a real boon--besides being *comfortable*.

Thanks again, Kacer




Absolutely!

My ex has problems w/ eye fatigue and worse - PAIN. She noticed the pain relief first, and frankly, as she's nearly as stubborn as I am that's probably 90% of what made it easy to KEEP her on the omega 3's.... (I'm pretty sure it has to do w/flexibility and the blood thinning properties as well as the flexibility of the omega 3's verses the alternative fats for making the blood platelets.... making the movement of blood through the tiny capilaries easier that is both the fatigue and pain relief components.... at least for her... probably for others as well.

Anyway, certainly glad to hear it, and you MAY see even greater benefits if yougo w/ either Natuure's Bounty or Puritan's Pride brands of flax oil.

Why? Well, both start off w/organic flax seed. Which VERY SLIGHTLY seems to "boost" the omega 3 and 9 and decreases the omega 6. (like about 15mg...) BUT they also both process the seeds in such a way as to PROTECT the omega 3's from the 3 things that easilly DESTROYS them...heat, light (white) and oxygen. I know Sundown doesn't, Swanson CERTAINLY doesn't, Nature Made may tajke SOME precautions... but not ALL of them, IMO no clue on Trader Joe's... but it would be worth checking out the label... I DO recall reading their bottle and deciding to not even TRY it... might be I didn't care for the breakdowns of the various acids.. (ALA aka: Alpha-linolenic acid aka: omega 3/ oleic acid - aka:omega 9 and Lenoleic acid- aka:Omega 6) but I can't recall.

Check the label, here's the PP/NB breakdown on a gram of oil:
ALA:570-585mg
OA:180mg
LA:160
Other (Palmitic Oil??):75-90

If Trader Joes is CLOSE, might be okay... but I'd bet the NB is cheaper, as it tends to go on buy 1 get 1 free sales at LEAST every 3rd month.... they also have some pretty tasty soy/flax chips that are good.... pretty low carbs too (Trader Joes)
Link Posted: 6/19/2005 5:40:32 PM EDT
This is the first I have head of the flax oil? I noticed in your list that it helped someone with fybromyalgia. I wondered if by chance you had come across this being of any help to Sjogren's Syndrom? Sometimes it feels as if it has gone too far, but any hope at all would be appreciated. I have fibromyalgia and chronic pancreatitis secondary to it. Makes everyday unpredictable.
Link Posted: 6/19/2005 7:49:00 PM EDT

Originally Posted By pattymcn:
Kacer thank you for the private IMs - I'm going to studying them. Now that you've taken care of me and my autistic son, have any ideas for my daughter who has suffered from Migraines and PMS and my husband with no sex drive?

Patty



How YOU doing Patty??
Link Posted: 6/21/2005 10:33:25 AM EDT

Originally Posted By syntax:
This is the first I have head of the flax oil? I noticed in your list that it helped someone with fybromyalgia. I wondered if by chance you had come across this being of any help to Sjogren's Syndrom? Sometimes it feels as if it has gone too far, but any hope at all would be appreciated. I have fibromyalgia and chronic pancreatitis secondary to it. Makes everyday unpredictable.



Absolutely! My grandmothers...cousin? Has Sjogren's, I gave her the whole spiel, she asked her doc next time she went, he said "I've never heard of that!" (Fortunately he's one of the GOOD docs) and the NEXT time she went, he said, "You remember talking to me about omega 3's and flax oil? Well, I did some scientific research, and turns out she was right..." then proceeded to put her on almost EXACTLY the same studff _I_ wanted her on - except I didn't "have" to do "pharmaceutical" grade, I did "close enough for gov't work" - IMO NB/PP brands are just that - close enough to make no significant difference. And a LOT more economical.

I also have SOME of that (Sjogren's), but I'm fine as long as I stay ON the flax. If you'd like the details I can IM you about the glands, the inflamation etc... or not.

Link Posted: 6/21/2005 12:33:39 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Kacer:

If you'd like the details I can IM you about the glands, the inflamation etc... or not.




I definately want to know more about the way this can help.

Link Posted: 6/21/2005 5:06:09 PM EDT

Originally Posted By syntax:

Originally Posted By Kacer:

If you'd like the details I can IM you about the glands, the inflamation etc... or not.




I definately want to know more about the way this can help.




Well, I WAS gonna IM... but in case someone ELSE wants to know, figured I might as well post it HERE.
So, I have a "rough" here on disk somewhere, (for the chapter on Sjogren's/eyes in the book I'm writing) let me touch it up a bit then I'll post it. MIGHT be after Bulletfest... sorry... IF I can before BF I will :)
Link Posted: 6/27/2005 3:25:24 PM EDT
Got another one this weekend... someone who wanted to thank me in person for this thread.


I've been taking them since mid-april and while I can't tell with certainty, I know that I have been noticing less symptoms with the chronic fatigue and muscle pain that I was having, a little less problems with allergies this year, and fewer problems with blood sugar swings. And I haven't really changed anything else.


HE'S not positive it's the flax/omega 3's... I am... but only because I used myself as a guinnea pig a few years back and STOPPED the flax 4 times to see if the benefits went away... (all 4 times - they did) my fatigue returned, and MS symptoms returned etc... IMO, he'll know for SURE in about 3.5 months (6 months seems to be a "hallmark" type time period). Or at least be MORE convinced - then he'll probably post something. (If he's anything like ME he MAY have to STOP the flax and start back on it a few times to see the correlation).

Anyway, I was tickled to hear it... he THOUGHT about posting here, but, he wants to be SURE before doing so. And I can't say that I blame him. The first 2 times I "tested" my theory I didn't think that was "it" either... (couldn't be that simple...)

Anyway... I'm ALWAYS so pleased to hear good news like this... folk's lives improving just a WONDERFUL gift.

Thanks.
Link Posted: 7/13/2005 12:17:10 PM EDT
This is an update I received this week from the person who's IM to me STARTED this thread. I'm pumped all over again



Ok, just wanted to get back to you.

I'm on the tail end of a two week break from taking the flax seed oil. I dunno.... just wanted to test myself to see if there was really a noticible difference.

There is.

My eye started twitching this morning for the first time in forever. I'm sort of freaked out, but it, and will be restarting the flax soon. Thanks for all your help.



I told the individual that it was a good idea, just to "test" it and be certain INDIVIDUALLY that the flax is what was making the difference. I know I did... usued myself as a guinnea pig 4 times, just to make it pretty much irrefutable. Shoot, the first 2 times I DID "go off of it", I REALLY didn't think it COULD POSSIBLY be "that simple" so I REALLY didn't expect any difference. 28 days later the 1st time, and 30 days later the 2nd time, I found out it likely WAS "that simple" .

Anyway, I thought those following the thread might find this intel interesting, at least.
Link Posted: 7/13/2005 7:14:29 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 7/13/2005 7:29:45 PM EDT by Kacer]

Originally Posted By syntax:
This is the first I have head of the flax oil? I noticed in your list that it helped someone with fybromyalgia. I wondered if by chance you had come across this being of any help to Sjogren's Syndrom? Sometimes it feels as if it has gone too far, but any hope at all would be appreciated. I have fibromyalgia and chronic pancreatitis secondary to it. Makes everyday unpredictable.



Sorry, I blew the following up on this after all the events of Friday and Saturday (Bulletfest/Gay Pride Parade).

Do you know if your chronic pancreatitis is "autoimmune pancreatitis"? If yes, I'm SURE the flax will also help that eventually. (Some at least minor differences to the positive in like 6 months). EVERY "auto-immune" disease I've studied somewhat to extensivelly (diabetes, MS, RA, Lupus, Scleroderma, Sjogren's, Sarcidosis (sp?) Hashimoto's thyroid something, Fibromyligia, IBD, Crohn’s, Colitis plus others not coming to mind at this late hour) ALL had SIGNIFICANT correlations that linked and went in sync with the research I did on MS, and the "experiments" I did on myself with regard to the MS.

With ALL of THAT going on, if it were ME w/those problems, I'd start w roughly 2 grams/day... do that for a week or 2, go to 3G for another week or two, then 4 etc.. maybe as far as 6G/day (more or less). They've done studies where they gave folks up to 30G/omega 3's/day... w/o any significant contraindications. (Take them in the moring and at lunch, otherwise you may not sleep well, can cause insomnia-like symptoms.) I have taken as much as 8G/day. BUT I'm on NO other medications AT ALL (I take Alegra D for allergy symptoms, PRN).

Remember that the omega 3's are BLOOD THINNERS that prevent platelet aggrigation (stickiness)... so if you are on blood thinners etc... (including some blood pressure meds) or any meds that warn of excessive bleeding, be CERTAIN to work w/your doc if taking more than 1-2G/day. Don't want to potentially cause hemorragic type strokes. But I'm 39, other than the MS, in pretty good shape, and I may not be a "good" test case if someone is much older, or in poor health, overall.

IMO, it's always a good idea to tell your doc what you plan on taking, and how much and ask that IF your meds need to be adjusted top accomodate that, to please DO SO.

(See, if you ASK the doc IF you can take it, and they are stoopid [sic], lazy, or siimply ignorant, they will say NOT to take the omega 3's.... because OTHERWISE they will need to do some actual WORK, look up in their PDR possible drug interations w/the omega 3's, etc... AND possibly "adjust yor meds". MUCH easier to just say "no".

ASKING sets a BAD precident. TELL them. THEY work for YOU. YOU (and your insurance, if applicable) are PAYING THEM. NOT the other way 'round. If you were a manager, you wouldn't ask your employee if they would please DO their job, would you? Me, I'd just tell them what to do. IF they had suggestions how to do it better, etc... I'd LISTEN, but I might or might NOT take those suggestions, depending upon the voracity of those suggestions. Why should it be different w/my doc who is ALSO my employee? (kinda).

Adding the omega 3's fixes the UNDERLYING problems, on a MOLECULAR level. Unfortunately, this takes TIME. I've heard of progress occurring in AS LITTLE as 2 weeks. (I found that to probably be a TAD more "wishful thinking") BUT, actual PHYSICAL problems (when not TOO "advanced" HAVE resolved in about 1 month. Me, I was probably about 4-6 years from DEATH. I didn't "See" differences until 6 months (BUT, in RETROSPECT, I SHOULD have seen some at about 3 months, though they were FAR from "significant" The biggest differences occurred for ME at 2.5 years. But SIGNIFICANT differences at 1 year. See, we didn't get "this way" overnight, it's also not going to "resolve" overnight either.

I was pretty happy to hear Gwen talking about the rather quick improvement in her eye fatigue. That was cool.

So, pay attention, but don't "expect" anything significant for at least 3 months. MIGHT occur sooner, might be 6 months, MOST see something in 3 though.

I'll try to post that partial I have on the sjogren's tomorrow. And agin, sorry for zoning that
Link Posted: 7/13/2005 7:20:48 PM EDT
That's great!
Link Posted: 7/13/2005 7:21:41 PM EDT
Thanks Kacer. IM sent.
Link Posted: 7/13/2005 10:34:24 PM EDT
Just adding...the Eye Fatigue has vanished. A significant change...and one I'm extremely happy about.

After researching information on Omega 3, I added flax seed to our poultry feed. Better eggs :)
Custom feed suppliers will add a supplement of stabilized flax, but I decided to offer straight fresh flax seed. Most of the birds will eat it. The Marans, who are good foragers, have taught their chicks to seek it out when I sprinkle it on the grass.

http://www.feathersite.com/Poultry/CGK/Marans/BRKMarans.html for a photo of the dark brown shelled Marans eggs..

As far as being a guinea pig...I'm willing!

Gwen
Link Posted: 8/16/2005 11:37:02 AM EDT
First, syntax I haven't (totally) forgotten about you. I can't seem to locate the intel that I had specifically for Sjogen's, so I'll try "winging" it from memory.


The main cause of Sjogen's according to the medicos is that the salivary and tear duct glands "dry up".

Allegedly, Sjögren's syndrome is an autoimmune disease in which the body's immune system mistakenly attacks its own moisture producing glands. Nine out of ten patients are women. The average age of onset is late 40s although Sjögren's occurs in all age groups in both women and men.

My theory to the discrepancy of male to female sufferers is <sarcasm mode on> women tend to have MANY more babies than men <sarcasm mode off> The eyes, intestines, bladder, kidneys,brain, myelin, infact EVERY cell in the BODY is surrounded by DHA one of the omega 3 fatty acids. SO, let's SAY women and men get the SAME "allotment" of omega 3's at birth from "mom"... women "spend" WAY more of them than men do, because women have to "make" entire human beings from THEIR "reserves" (assuming they HAVE children) so this "giveawy" results in more women suffering from Omega 3 deficiency diseases/symptoms.

About 50% of the time Sjögren's syndrome occurs alone, and 50% of the time it occurs in the presence of another connective tissue disease. The four most common diagnoses that co-exsist with Sjögren's syndrome are Rheumatoid Arthritis, Systemic Lupus, Systemic Sclerosis (scleroderma) and Polymyositis/Dermatomyositis. Sometimes researchers refer to the first type as "Primary Sjögren's" and the second as "Secondary Sjögren's." All instances of Sjögren's syndrome are systemic, affecting the entire body. (Interesting that all the diseases mentioned are ALSO alegedly "auto-immune" diseases - IMO they are omega 3 deficiency diseases, hence my "allegedly".)

The hallmark symptoms are dry eyes and dry mouth. Sjögren's may also cause dryness of other organs, affecting the kidneys, GI tract, blood vessels, lung, liver, pancreas, and the central nervous system. Many patients experience debilitating fatigue and joint pain. Symptoms can plateau, worsen, or go into remission. While some people experience mild symptoms, others suffer debilitating symptoms that greatly impair their quality of life.

Fairly recent research has shown that oral therapy with polyunsaturated fatty acids reduces ocular surface inflammation and improves dry eye symptoms (Cornea 2003;22:97-101). In this study patients received tablets containing 28.5 mg linoleic (omega-6 fatty acid) and 15 mg gamma-linolenic acid (omega-3 fatty acid) twice daily for 45 days. Both of these are polyunsaturated fats.

IMO, this studty was NOT long enough (at all) though one can see (no pun intended) some differences in as little as 45 days, to REALLY get the idea I suggest minimum of 6 months. the AMOUNTS were also MINISCULE also I prefer the alph-lenolenic acid to the gamma... that can be gained in flax oil. I take 1,170 mg of Alpha Lenolenic acid/day MINIMUM... they say 15mg/day of GAMMA?

Omega-3s in the diet, once consumed, are elongated by enzymes to produce anti-inflammatory prostaglandin E3 (PGE3) and anti-inflammatory leukotriene B5 (LTB5)

Even more importantly, eicosapentaenoic acid (EPA)(which the liver can convert SOME of the ALA (alpha-lenolenic acid) to EPA), a long-chain omega-3 provided directly by fish oils, blocks the gene expression of the pro-inflammatory cytokines tumor necrosis factor alpha (TNF-a), interleukin-1 alpha (IL-1a), interleukin-1beta (IL-1b), proteoglycan degrading enzymes (aggrecanases) and cyclooxygenase (COX-2)

Suppressing TNF- a is also important because in Sjögren's syndrome and in lacrimal gland-based dry eye, increased TNF- a in the lacrimal glands increases lacrimal gland apoptosis (programmed cell death). Increased apoptosis contributes to the decrease in tear production, and increase in tear film osmolarity that drives dry-eye ocular surface disease.

In addition TNF- a induces apopotosis on the ocular surface in dry eye. Specifically, Luo and co-workers found that increasing tear film osmolarity in animal models increases the expression of TNF- a and the associated cell regulators that increase apoptosis on the ocular surface. 9 There has been a lot of interest recently in ocular surface inflammation in dry eye. 10 This important study shows that it is elevated tear film osmolarity that induces the increased expression of pro-inflammatory cytokines in dry eye, just as elevated tear film osmolarity has been shown to produce all the morphological ocular surface changes described in dry eye.

While EPA decreases the gene expression of TNF- a , DHA, a long-chain omega-3 provided directly by fish oils (but also can be "changed" from ALA to DHA in the liver), protects cells from TNF- a –induced apoptosis. Yano (researcher/scientist) and co-workers have demonstrated that vitamin E works synergistically with DHA to protect cells from TNF- a –induced apoptosis. 11 So EPA and DHA work together to protect the lacrimal gland and ocular surface from apoptosis.

While EPA decreases the gene expression of TNF- a , DHA, a long-chain omega-3 provided directly by fish oils, protects cells from TNF- a –induced apoptosis. Yano and co-workers have demonstrated that vitamin E works synergistically with DHA to protect cells from TNF- a –induced apoptosis. 11 So EPA and DHA work together to protect the lacrimal gland and ocular surface from apoptosis.

The effects of suppressing pro-inflammatory cytokines don't stop here. We now know that the pro-inflammatory cytokines TNF- a , IL-1 a , and IL-1 b , impair tear secretion in lacrimal gland disease-based dry eye by inhibiting the release of neurotransmitters from neural synapses, and interfering with the secretory response of lacrimal gland acinar cells to stimulation. This is probably the main mechanism by which tear secretion decreases in dry eye. (1,2)

The profound importance of this has been illustrated in recent work that shows that when TNF- a gene expression is blocked by gene therapy in an animal model, autoimmune lacrimal gland disease can be reversed, and tear secretion restored. (3) The relevance of this animal model is supported by epidemiological data that indicates that the risk for dry eye decreases with increased dietary intake of omega-3s, (4) as well as an additional study that finds that Sjögren's patients have a lower dietary intake of omega-3s, including EPA and DHA, than age-matched controls. (5)


1. Zoukhri D, Kublen CL: Impaired neurotransmitter release from lacrimal and salivary gland nerves of a murine model of Sjögren's syndrome. Invest Ophthalmol Vis Sci 42(5):925-932, 2001.

2. Zoukhri D, Hodges RR, Byon D, Kublin CL: Role of proinflammatory cytokines in the impaired lacrimation associated with autoimmune xerophthalmia. Invest Ophthalmol Vis Sci 43(5):1429-1436, 2002.

3. Zejin Z, Stevenson D, Schechter JE, Mircheff AK, Crow RW, Atkinson R, Ritter T, Bose S, Trousdale MD: Tumor necrosis factor inhibitor gene expression suppresses lacrimal gland immunopathology in a rabbit model of autoimmune dacryoadenitis. Cornea 22(4):343-351, 2003.

4. Trivedi KA, Dana MR, Gilbard JP, Buring JE, Schaumberg DA: Dietary omega-3 fatty acid intake and risk of clinically diagnosed dry eye syndrome in women. ARVO, 2003.

5. Ceramak JM, Papas AS, Sullivan RM, Dana MR, Sullivan DA: Nutrient intake in women with primary and secondary Sjögren's syndrome. Eur J Clin Nutr 57(2):328-34, 2003.




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Also I got another IM today (I just love these :)



I just thought I'd let you know I have been reading what you have written here about flax seed oil. I started taking it over a month ago,and figured I'd share this with you. I have high blood pressure and do take meds for it. I just had my 3 month check and my blood pressure was actually 140/80 which for me has not been that low for a real long time. That was with alot of stress going on in my life too,with (description of stress inducing events that might reveal who said this so I removed). I also feel alot better since before I constantly felt tired, now I don't. So I figured I'd share with you that this has actually helped me. At some point I am hoping that maybe I might be able to go off my blood pressure meds. I now just have to work on exercising more. Thanks for your advise.
Xxxxx (Name removed for anonimity purposes and yeah, I changed the amount of X's too )



So... and .
Link Posted: 8/25/2005 6:44:39 AM EDT
Well, I finally found the parts that I've written (in a tad more "plain" Engish regarding the Sjogren's (I had "filed" it wrong in the computer ) This is a very NOT "cleaned up" chapter in the book (still need to take it through 6 more "revisions") that deals w/Sjogren's. It's kinda heavy on the medicaleese, sorry - haven't really gotten to that revision yet , but I think MOST of it will help explain the mechanisims of Sjogren's and why the omega 3 supplimentation will very likely help.

If a part isn't clear, feel free to "quote" that part and ask for clarification (I have to do it sometime anyway )



Sjogren's
This particular autoimmune illness is caused by inflammation in the glands of the body. Specifically inflammation of the glands that produce tears (lacrimal glands) and inflammation of the glands that produce the saliva in the mouth (salivary glands, including the parotid glands) leading to leads to decreased water/oil production for tears and eye dryness as well as to mouth dryness. Omega 3's are ANTI-inflamatory.
A common disease that is occasionally associated with Sjogren's syndrome is autoimmune thyroiditis (Hashimoto's thyroiditis), which can lead to abnormal hormone levels detected by thyroid blood tests. I have at LEAST 2 women who have hypothyroidism who have seen a DECREASE in their thyroid gland medication (to replace what the thyroid isn't putting out). Oddly enough it is NOT due to any problems with the THYROID gland, but rather the PINEAL gland that is not TELLING the thyroid to put OUT sufficient levels which is causing the needed medication. I expect a complete reversal, given another year or two.
Increased tear evaporation may occur in one of two ways:
1. Long-standing posterior blepharitis causing meibomian gland dysfunction. When these glands function properly, they produce an oil layer that coats the tear film and retards evaporation. The oil layer is ideally, in part omega 3 fatty acids, in the absence of omega 3's - the body uses the next best substance... either omega 9's or omega 6's - possibly OTHER fats, such as the man-made trans fats or saturated fats.
2. A large palpebral fissure width, occurring either naturally, secondary to cosmetic surgery or with thyroid eye disease, places evaporative stress on the tear film. Evaporation is proportional to the palpebral-fissure surface area. Increased evaporation also explains why symptoms become worse with exposure to air conditioning, dry heat, low humidity or wind.
Aging tends to result in a gradual decline in tear secretion secondary to the associated decline in corneal sensation and meibomian gland function. In most patients, physiologic reserve, along with a bit of ptosis (drooping of the lids), is adequate to prevent the development of symptoms and disease.
New research, presented for the first time at the 2003 Annual meeting of the Association for Research in Vision and Ophthalmology has found that high dietary intake of omega-3 essential fatty acids decrease the risk of dry eye. Using the Women’s Health Database at the Harvard School of Public Health, the investigators examined the dietary intake of essential fatty acids in 32,470 female health professionals. They found that the higher the dietary ratio of omega-3 to omega-6 essential fatty acids, the lower the likelihood of dry eye, and the higher the dietary omega-3 intake, the lower the likelihood of dry eye. Conversely, they found that the lower the ratio of omega-3s to omega-6s the higher the likelihood of dry eye.
Omega-3s decrease inflammation
Omega-3s in the diet, once consumed, are elongated by enzymes to produce anti-inflammatory prostaglandin E3 (PGE3) and anti-inflammatory leukotriene B5 (LTB5). Even more importantly, eicosapentaenoic acid (EPA), a long-chain omega-3 provided directly by fish oils, (or converted from ALA in the liver) blocks the gene expression of the pro-inflammatory cytokines tumor necrosis factor alpha (TNF-a), interleukin-1 a (IL-1a), interleukin-1b (IL-1b), proteoglycan degrading enzymes (aggrecanases) and cyclooxygenase (COX-2).
These anti-inflammatory effects go a long way to explain why omega-3s have been useful in treating patients with posterior blepharitis (inflammation of the eyelids).or meibomitis (Inflammation of the little glands called Meibomian glands located in the eyelids ). The results are so positive that it is displacing the use of systemic tetracyclines as treatment for the eye irritation that many doctor's meibomitis patients experience upon awakening in the morning. But the effects of omega-3s only begin with their effects on meibomitis.
Omega-3s decrease apoptosis
Suppressing TNF-a is also important because in Sjögren’s syndrome and in lacrimal gland-based dry eye, increased TNF-a in the lacrimal glands increases lacrimal gland apoptosis (programmed cell death). Increased apoptosis contributes to the decrease in tear production, and increase in tear film osmolarity (the amount of necessary oil in the tear solution) that drives dry-eye ocular surface disease.
In addition TNF-a induces apopotosis on the ocular surface in dry eye. Specifically, Luo and co-workers found that increasing tear film osmolarity in animal models increases the expression of TNF-a and the associated cell regulators that increase apoptosis on the ocular surface. There has been a lot of interest recently in ocular surface inflammation in dry eye. This important study shows that it is elevated tear film osmolarity that induces the increased expression of pro-inflammatory cytokines in dry eye, just as elevated tear film osmolarity has been shown to produce all the morphological ocular surface changes described in dry eye.
Restasis, a very expensive drug administered topically because it is so toxic systemically, also inhibits TNF-a production by monocytes (One of three types of white blood cells. monocytes are precursors to macrophages). Applied topically it achieves good concentrations in the eye surface but is not thought to reach the orbital lacrimal gland in humans. TheraTears Nutrition, taken by mouth, reaches the lacrimal gland by the blood supply, and, as we shall see later, the ocular surface via meibum (another eye gland). Restasis and TheraTears Nutrition both appear to inhibit pro-inflammatory cytokines, but differ in their ability to reach relevant target tissues.
While EPA decreases the gene expression of TNF-a, DHA, another long-chain omega-3 provided directly by fish oils, protects cells from TNF-a –induced apoptosis. Yano and co-workers have demonstrated that vitamin E works synergistically with DHA to protect cells from TNF-a –induced apoptosis. So EPA and DHA work together to protect the lacrimal gland and ocular surface from apoptosis.
Omega-3’s stimulate tear secretion
The effects of suppressing pro-inflammatory cytokines don’t stop here. We now know that the pro-inflammatory cytokines TNF-a, IL-1a, and IL-1b, impair tear secretion in lacrimal gland disease-based dry eye by inhibiting the release of neurotransmitters from neural synapses. Also by interfering with the secretory response of lacrimal gland acinar cells to stimulation. This is likely the main mechanism by which tear secretion decreases in dry eye.
The importance of this has been illustrated in recent work that shows that when TNF-a gene expression is blocked by gene therapy in an animal model, autoimmune lacrimal gland disease can be reversed, and tear secretion restored. The relevance of this animal model is supported by the epidemiological data cited above, as well as an additional study that finds that Sjögren’s patients have a lower dietary intake of omega-3s, including EPA and DHA, than age-matched controls.
While EPA is central in blocking the gene expression of pro-inflammatory cytokines, DHA may help in a complementary way. Neural synapses contain among the highest concentration of DHA in the body and studies have shown that dietary supplementation with DHA restores neural DHA levels and improves age-related declines in synapse function. DHA likely reduce the ability of pro-inflammatory cytokines in the lacrimal gland to inhibit signal transduction at the synapse. Lending credence to this hypothesis is the finding that severity of dry eye in Sjögren’s patients has been found to be inversely proportional to membrane and serum levels of DHA.
Omega-3s affect the lacrimal gland in yet another way. EPA and DHA and alpha-linolenic acid (ALA) from flaxseed oil competitively inhibit the conversion of omega-6s to arachidonic acid (AA) thereby promoting the conversion of DGLA to prostaglandin E1 (PGE1). PGE1 also has anti-inflammatory properties and, in addition, acts on the E-prostanoid receptors EP2 and EP4 to activate adenylate cyclase, increasing cyclic AMP (cAMP). PGE1 and cAMP have been shown to stimulate aqueous tear secretion.
Omega 3’s, the meibomian gland oils
Meibomian glands use essential fatty acids to synthesize oil (meibum). Dietary intake of omega-3s in general, and EPA and DHA in particular, have recently been shown to affect the polar lipid profiles of meibum as observed by HPLC. Actually, Boerner observed the clearing and thinning of meibomian gland secretions with omega-3 supplementation. Further studies are needed to determine whether the effects are sufficient to bolster the oil layer and retard evaporation, but the results are promising.

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