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9/22/2017 12:11:25 AM
Posted: 2/15/2006 5:41:35 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/15/2006 5:42:23 PM EDT by DK-Prof]
So I was moving a FSB from one rifle to another (a YHM flip-up sight), which meant that I was working with two barrelled uppers side by side (and putting the original FSB back on the rifle I was removing the YHM flip-up FSB from).

When everything was done, I put handguards, optics and rear sights and stuff back on the uppers, and then reached for the first lower, and prepared to put on the upper.

Ooops - wrong lower. Problem was, one of the two uppers was my SBR, and I had grabbed the wrong lower (both have on similar collapsible stocks, both in OD green) for my SBR upper. Had I actually placed it on the lower, and pushed the pins in, I guess that would TECHNICALLY have been an unregistered SBR and an NFA violation. Fortuitously (for my paranoid and compulsively rule-following nature) I realized it in time, and grabbed the correct registered lower instead, and pushed the pins in.


It kind of illustrated to me how NFA laws, especially the SBR ones, are sorta idiotic. In my opinion, ONE STAMP should allow a person to own as many of whatever the stamp is for as they want.

Just my completely law-abiding opinion.
Link Posted: 2/15/2006 5:42:39 PM EDT
I agree.
Link Posted: 2/15/2006 5:43:23 PM EDT
good thing you noticed your mistake, im sure people have had their lives ruined for smaller violations than that
Link Posted: 2/15/2006 5:44:18 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/15/2006 5:45:52 PM EDT by Carhlr]
NEVER CONFESS
Link Posted: 2/15/2006 5:44:57 PM EDT

Originally Posted By DK-Prof:
I guess that would TECHNICALLY have been an unregistered SBR and an NFA violation.



Watch 'ur cornhole bud.
Link Posted: 2/15/2006 5:45:09 PM EDT
Your friends at the ATF will be along shortly to assist you.
Link Posted: 2/15/2006 5:45:18 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Carhlr:
NEVER CONFESS




To NOT comitting a crime?
Link Posted: 2/15/2006 5:45:34 PM EDT
Now all your dogs are belong to them.
Link Posted: 2/15/2006 5:46:15 PM EDT
You should write a letter to ATF about this!

J/K
Link Posted: 2/15/2006 5:46:20 PM EDT
You shouldn't even have to have the dang stamp, man! On that note, I wish we could own SBR's here in IL.
Link Posted: 2/15/2006 5:46:21 PM EDT
Sleep with one eye open tonight DK!
Link Posted: 2/15/2006 5:46:21 PM EDT
So....do you have any dogs?
Link Posted: 2/15/2006 5:46:48 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/15/2006 5:47:02 PM EDT by DK-Prof]

Originally Posted By nationwide:
You should write a letter to ATF about this!




Didn't I just do that?
Link Posted: 2/15/2006 5:52:16 PM EDT
You should have done it anyways... pushing those pins in would have felt soooooo good.

Use a proper amount of lubricant... slide them in s-l-o-w-l-e-y until the detents engage with that reassuring snap... you know you want to do it... what's stopping you?

Link Posted: 2/15/2006 5:53:32 PM EDT
The ATF should be kicking in your door right about......tick tock, tick tock, tick tock......NOW!!!
Link Posted: 2/15/2006 5:53:37 PM EDT
If you were to call the ATF, they would ask you to come to their office with your firearms. When you got there, they would ask you to demonstrate it for them. When you did, they would arrest you.
Link Posted: 2/15/2006 5:54:07 PM EDT

Originally Posted By DK-Prof:

Originally Posted By nationwide:
You should write a letter to ATF about this!




Didn't I just do that?



Tax stamps aren't my department, but I'll forward this thread to the guy down the hall who handles them.

Sorry, no wooden shoes allowed in federal prisons!
Link Posted: 2/15/2006 5:54:35 PM EDT
Of course, the ATF will just tell you to spring for an SBR stamp for your non-SBR rifle just to be sure.
Link Posted: 2/15/2006 5:55:01 PM EDT

Originally Posted By LoginName:
You should have done it anyways... pushing those pins in would have felt soooooo good.

Use a proper amount of lubricant... slide them in s-l-o-w-l-e-y until the detents engage with that reassuring snap... you know you want to do it... what's stopping you?




With Barry White in the background, and some nice candles. Oh yeah!!



Seriously, I am literally such a rule-following northern european, that not only does the idea of putting my SBR upper on an unregistered lower have no appeal to me, but it somehow seems "wrong"


Baaaaah baaah
Link Posted: 2/15/2006 5:55:23 PM EDT
But you have to wonder if WANTING to do it is just as sinful/illegal as ACTUALLY doing it.

Oh the possibilities!
Link Posted: 2/15/2006 5:56:34 PM EDT
The office of pre-crime is well aware of this violation...
Link Posted: 2/15/2006 5:56:39 PM EDT
I got dibs on his Garands........
Link Posted: 2/15/2006 5:58:31 PM EDT
har..

isnt possession of a drop in auto sear supposedly not illegal if you dont possess an AR and possession of an AR not illegal if you dont have the auto sear but have both at the same time is a violation.. therefore possession of an SBR part with a second AR not registered as an SBR you have the ability to create an illegal SBR and therefore are in violation similar to that of the drop in auto sear.....

inquring minds dont want to know....
Link Posted: 2/15/2006 6:00:55 PM EDT
Link Posted: 2/15/2006 6:01:42 PM EDT

Originally Posted By st0newall:
har..

isnt possession of a drop in auto sear supposedly not illegal if you dont possess an AR and possession of an AR not illegal if you dont have the auto sear but have both at the same time is a violation.. therefore possession of an SBR part with a second AR not registered as an SBR you have the ability to create an illegal SBR and therefore are in violation similar to that of the drop in auto sear.....

inquring minds dont want to know....




There was just a thread about this recently, related to owning an AR pistol and an AR rifles, since a person could easily (in a matter of seconds) obviously switch the uppers, and have an SBR.

I think it's not a big deal, since all my uppers are mated to lowers. However, I am not quite sure what a BATFE opinion would be if I had another SBR upper (say an 11.5" to go with my 10.5") and an extra complete lower lying around in the same safe.

I would THINK there is still no problem unless they would actually be joined, but I'm not 100% sure. If I ever get a second upper for my SBR, I am going to be sure that I don't have extra complete lowers lying around - or at least keep them at a different location or something like that.
Link Posted: 2/15/2006 6:02:12 PM EDT

Originally Posted By 1shott:
I got dibs on his Garands........



Bastard!!


Link Posted: 2/15/2006 6:07:39 PM EDT
Thoughtcrime.

They always come at night...
Link Posted: 2/15/2006 6:37:58 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/15/2006 6:39:06 PM EDT by JustinOK34]

Originally Posted By DK-Prof:

Originally Posted By st0newall:
har..

isnt possession of a drop in auto sear supposedly not illegal if you dont possess an AR and possession of an AR not illegal if you dont have the auto sear but have both at the same time is a violation.. therefore possession of an SBR part with a second AR not registered as an SBR you have the ability to create an illegal SBR and therefore are in violation similar to that of the drop in auto sear.....

inquring minds dont want to know....




There was just a thread about this recently, related to owning an AR pistol and an AR rifles, since a person could easily (in a matter of seconds) obviously switch the uppers, and have an SBR.

I think it's not a big deal, since all my uppers are mated to lowers. However, I am not quite sure what a BATFE opinion would be if I had another SBR upper (say an 11.5" to go with my 10.5") and an extra complete lower lying around in the same safe.

I would THINK there is still no problem unless they would actually be joined, but I'm not 100% sure. If I ever get a second upper for my SBR, I am going to be sure that I don't have extra complete lowers lying around - or at least keep them at a different location or something like that.



Here's my take on this (I'm not a legal expert, but I did stay at a Holiday Inn last night).

I think this falls under "constructive intent."

Example, having the means to do something illegal is just as bad as performing the illegal act.

DK you said it right in red. If you want an extra upper for your SBR, make sure there are no completed lowers (which aren't SBRed) lying around. Or just fork out another $200 and SBR another lower receiver.

Link Posted: 2/15/2006 6:40:21 PM EDT

Originally Posted By staraero:
Now all your dogs are belong to them.


and your rifles are belong to me
Link Posted: 2/15/2006 6:54:26 PM EDT

Originally Posted By bastiat:

Originally Posted By DK-Prof:

Originally Posted By nationwide:
You should write a letter to ATF about this!




Didn't I just do that?



Tax stamps aren't my department, but I'll forward this thread to the guy down the hall who handles them.

Sorry, no wooden shoes allowed in federal prisons!





Could be used as a weapon. Perhaps carved into a gun-like object, with which our Resident Dutchman could frighten the Mall-Ninja Guard into submission.

Hey Doc, you may try giving the Danegeld to the BATFinks - or go undercover to your next faculty meeting where your associates will be discussing an illegal still.
Link Posted: 2/15/2006 6:54:43 PM EDT

Originally Posted By JustinOK34:

Here's my take on this (I'm not a legal expert, but I did stay at a Holiday Inn last night).

I think this falls under "constructive intent."

Example, having the means to do something illegal is just as bad as performing the illegal act.

DK you said it right in red. If you want an extra upper for your SBR, make sure there are no completed lowers (which aren't SBRed) lying around. Or just fork out another $200 and SBR another lower receiver.




Constructive intent does not exist as long as everything you have has a legal purpose. Constructive Intent exists when you have an item that has no legal purpose i.e you have a short upper and a AR and the short upper is not attached to the AR, but you do not also have an SBR, Pistol AR, or AOW, then you have no legal purpose for the short upper and it would be considered constructive intent to put it on the rifle you have.

As long as you have a SBR lower, pistol lower or AOW lower you can have short uppers for them.

If you have a rifle lower you can of course have 16> uppers for them. The fact you own a SBR gives you legal reason to have extra parts and for the SBR and have a normal rifle without there being constructive intent.

Just for ease I keep my guns color coded. I also keep my registered stuff in a different safe from my normal stuff. No legal reason, just to make things obvious.

Link Posted: 2/15/2006 7:07:06 PM EDT

Originally Posted By _RAGNAR_:

Originally Posted By JustinOK34:

Here's my take on this (I'm not a legal expert, but I did stay at a Holiday Inn last night).

I think this falls under "constructive intent."

Example, having the means to do something illegal is just as bad as performing the illegal act.

DK you said it right in red. If you want an extra upper for your SBR, make sure there are no completed lowers (which aren't SBRed) lying around. Or just fork out another $200 and SBR another lower receiver.




Constructive intent does not exist as long as everything you have has a legal purpose. Constructive Intent exists when you have an item that has no legal purpose i.e you have a short upper and a AR and the short upper is not attached to the AR, but you do not also have an SBR, Pistol AR, or AOW, then you have no legal purpose for the short upper and it would be considered constructive intent to put it on the rifle you have.

As long as you have a SBR lower, pistol lower or AOW lower you can have short uppers for them.

If you have a rifle lower you can of course have 16> uppers for them. The fact you own a SBR gives you legal reason to have extra parts and for the SBR and have a normal rifle without there being constructive intent.

Just for ease I keep my guns color coded. I also keep my registered stuff in a different safe from my normal stuff. No legal reason, just to make things obvious.




Gotcha, thanks.
Link Posted: 2/15/2006 7:08:52 PM EDT
Maybe they will just burn your shoes, instead of your whole house
Link Posted: 2/15/2006 7:11:49 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/15/2006 7:12:42 PM EDT by captainpooby]
I put a collapsible stock on my post-ban ---------------- the ban was up.
Link Posted: 2/15/2006 7:24:01 PM EDT

Originally Posted By DK-Prof:

Originally Posted By LoginName:
You should have done it anyways... pushing those pins in would have felt soooooo good.

Use a proper amount of lubricant... slide them in s-l-o-w-l-e-y until the detents engage with that reassuring snap... you know you want to do it... what's stopping you?




With Barry White in the background, and some nice candles. Oh yeah!!





Way too damn funny!!!
Link Posted: 2/15/2006 7:29:37 PM EDT
this is only a problem because of unConstitutional gun laws that violate the 2A
Link Posted: 2/15/2006 7:34:27 PM EDT
SBR laws are idiotic
Link Posted: 2/15/2006 7:42:46 PM EDT
Sounds like constructive intent to accidentally violate the NFA.
I'm sure that's the way Chuckie would see it.

See ya in Club Fed big boy.

Link Posted: 2/15/2006 7:44:12 PM EDT
Dude I wouldn't even HINT at violating any firearms laws, let alone post it on the internet.
Link Posted: 2/15/2006 7:50:18 PM EDT

Originally Posted By DK-Prof:

Originally Posted By nationwide:
You should write a letter to ATF about this!




Didn't I just do that?



wow- if you only knew
Link Posted: 2/15/2006 7:52:13 PM EDT
You'll be needing this.
Link Posted: 2/15/2006 8:03:44 PM EDT

Originally Posted By drjarhead:
Sounds like constructive intent to accidentally violate the NFA.
I'm sure that's the way Chuckie would see it.

See ya in Club Fed big boy.



garandman is probably on the phone to the BATF right now.
Link Posted: 2/15/2006 8:06:58 PM EDT

Originally Posted By DK-Prof:

Originally Posted By Carhlr:
NEVER CONFESS




To NOT comitting a crime?




You were obviously subconsciously conspiring with yourself.
It would go a lot easier on you if you just turned yourself in.
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