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Posted: 11/26/2002 5:31:00 AM EST
[Last Edit: 11/26/2002 5:49:42 AM EST by Belfry_Express]
Ok folks, here's the deal. I am turning 21 in April. I am going to be buying a sidearm to continue to exercise my 2nd amendment rights. I am looking @ four calibers, .357 SIG, 9mm, .40 S&W, and .45 ACP. I am compiling a list of ALL full-sized weapons in these calibers for testing. No compact weapons will be considered. All constructive comments on caliber/weapons will be appreciated. Edited to Add: 10+1 is a plus as is the ability to find LEGAL pre-ban mags. Also, please make suggestions as specific as possible (specific models/brands) Fire away!
Link Posted: 11/26/2002 5:36:04 AM EST
I would go with a 1911 if you want to go full size. A little heavy compared to their polymer cousins, but they're great. I'm somewhat attracted to the berretta M9 too. Just out of curiosity, why are compacts out of the question?
Link Posted: 11/26/2002 5:37:24 AM EST
Sig, Sig and Sig. P226 in .357Sig, .40S&W and/or 9mm P220 in .45 -934
Link Posted: 11/26/2002 5:43:33 AM EST
[Last Edit: 11/26/2002 5:48:05 AM EST by Boom_Stick]
99.999999999999999999999999999999% of your time shooting will be spent shooting at targets, so keep that in mind. Don't pick a caliber based on what someone says is the best "man stopping" caliber. All the ones you mentioned will do the job. 9mm and .45 are the classics. 9mm is the least expensive of the two, therefore you'll get more ammo for your $$ and more practice with your firearm(very important).
Link Posted: 11/26/2002 5:43:38 AM EST
Link Posted: 11/26/2002 5:45:51 AM EST
First of all I wouldn't just write off all compact weapons - there's a lot of micro-1911's in .45 that look pretty attractive, not to mention the Glock 30 (an extremely accurate compact .45). It's really pretty hard to go wrong if you stick with these names(IMNSHO): [b]Beretta, CZ, SIG, Glock, H undt K, Kimber, or Kahr[/b]. Also, I think the Springfield XD is worth a look (the old HS2000), it takes SIG sights, Beretta mags-w/ slight modification- has a single action trigger, and is lightweight). Aw fuck it - just go get a Glock.
Link Posted: 11/26/2002 5:46:42 AM EST
...why are compacts out of the question?
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I have very large hands and small wrists. I need the added weight to help control recoil. Every compact I have fired, I came close to picking them out of my face/teeth I also want 10 +1 rounds.
Link Posted: 11/26/2002 5:49:07 AM EST
Link Posted: 11/26/2002 5:49:30 AM EST
Originally Posted By Dolomite: Aw fuck it - just go get a Glock.
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G32 .357Sig loaded with Speer GDHP. Of 2 dozen some firearms in my house, when my alarm went off one night, that's the one I instinctively grabbed.
Link Posted: 11/26/2002 5:56:45 AM EST
Originally Posted By Belfry_Express:
...why are compacts out of the question?
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I have very large hands and small wrists. I need the added weight to help control recoil. Every compact I have fired, I came close to picking them out of my face/teeth I also want 10 +1 rounds.
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This being the case, I would definitely go with a Hi-Power in 9mm. If you are mainly going to be doing target shooting, stay with 9mm. You will probably shoot it better, and even in a defensive situation, that's what really counts. See if you can get out there and try a 1911 in .45, a Hi-Power in 9mm, a Beretta 92FS, a Sig 226, and a Glock 17. All 9mm except the 1911. Oh yeah, and Springfield Armory makes a full size 1911 in 9mm too, but I don't know anything about it.
Link Posted: 11/26/2002 6:09:52 AM EST
All other handguns should be melted down so the steel can be used to make more [red][b]GLOCKS[/b][/red]! [;D]
Link Posted: 11/26/2002 6:33:54 AM EST
Originally Posted By cookie: All other handguns should be melted down so the steel can be used to make more [red][b]GLOCKS[/b][/red]! [;D]
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Please refrain from starting or taking part in a pissing contest.
Link Posted: 11/26/2002 6:38:19 AM EST
[Last Edit: 11/26/2002 6:39:40 AM EST by jrj397]
[b]Beretta 96FS INOX[/b] All the friggin way! .40, accurate, will NEVER jam, smooth as silk. Get one and never look back... Try it
Link Posted: 11/26/2002 6:42:44 AM EST
Originally Posted By COZ_cal_45acp: Why screw around with anything but the best? John Browning set the standard for tilt barrel semi-auto weapons that has been copied by many, but perfected by few. 1911 style .45 or Hi-Power in 9mm. Since you want a full size then, you'll love em both.
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I've got to agree with COZ_cal_45acp and a few others here. Start off with a classic. I have had a Browning Hi-Power for years, and it has been great. I spent my recreational time on other things for quite a few years, but am now back enjoying shooting as often as I can (may go to the range in a little while! Got the week off...). I do intend to get a .45 at some point, but I think that mastering the 9mm first is a better idea, because the ammo is SO much less expensive. I'd go bankrupt, if I shot .45 as much as I like to shoot 9mm. Just my $.02.
Link Posted: 11/26/2002 6:56:30 AM EST
Get yourself a Springfield XD .40 (formerly the HS2000). Great and inexpensive pistolas. Aviator
Link Posted: 11/26/2002 7:03:07 AM EST
You're not a Real American(TM) until you own at least one 1911 pistol. Get a 45. [50]
Link Posted: 11/26/2002 7:12:33 AM EST
Everybody has their favorites,shop around and find the one that fits you the best,lots of good pistols out there. Once you have did that you'll pick one of the Sig's. [peep] [pistol]
Link Posted: 11/26/2002 7:31:43 AM EST
Para Ordnance 14.45 LDA. 14+1 rounds of .45 and a light double action trigger that's SWEET. (warning: may not be suitable for those with small hands)...
Link Posted: 11/26/2002 7:43:21 AM EST
Dittos on what Slacko said. The grip on the Para P14-45 is only about 1/8" wider than that of the single stack .45ACP (Colt, Springfield, Kimber, etc.)
Link Posted: 11/26/2002 8:25:03 AM EST
Belfry... chill buddy. Can't you see the "smartass" smiley? On a serious note, I'm in a position to observe many handgun newbies learning to qualify with their sidearms. They always do well with Glocks, especially the 21.
Link Posted: 11/26/2002 8:29:53 AM EST
1911a1. Is there any other choice?
Link Posted: 11/26/2002 8:33:02 AM EST
[Last Edit: 11/26/2002 8:34:25 AM EST by schapman43]
Originally Posted By COZ_cal_45acp: If you want a carry weapon, then you don't want a full size.
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I carry a full size 1911 daily and have no problems. I can even do it just wearing a T-Shirt Edited to Add: I also wear pants when I'm using the T-Shirt
Link Posted: 11/26/2002 8:40:24 AM EST
1911A1. Or anything designed by John Browning.
Link Posted: 11/26/2002 8:46:25 AM EST
If you can test fire some rentals at a range, or try some friends guns, then do it. Everybody here has a pet make/model/caliber. I am partial to Glocks because I shoot really well with them. I have many others, but Glock 30 goes with me everywhere these days.
Link Posted: 11/26/2002 8:51:44 AM EST
The range I go to in Georgia has a HUGE selection of firearms. Moreover, they allow most of them to be rented. The kicker....Keep the receipts of the rental fees, buy a gun there, they will apply your accumulated fees to your purchase. With the amount of firepower I will be testing, it wouldn't surprise me if I don't have to shell out one dime for my weapon. I have talked to the owner several times and he has had several customers do just that.
Link Posted: 11/26/2002 8:53:55 AM EST
Originally Posted By racer934: Sig, Sig and Sig. P226 in .357Sig, .40S&W and/or 9mm P220 in .45 -934
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i concur with the SIG P220 .45
Link Posted: 11/26/2002 8:57:19 AM EST
I also gotta put in my vote for the 1911A1. I have two from Sprignfield Armory, a full size and a compact. I love my full size so much that I use it almost exclusively - even for CCW, I find very little difference in carry when it comes to the full size vs compact. I also agree on the Para Ordnance for a high-cap weapon - if you have large hands. I'm a hard core single action only kind of guy, but if I had to choose, my next favorite would be the Sig.
Link Posted: 11/26/2002 9:02:59 AM EST
Originally Posted By AZ_Sky: I also gotta put in my vote for the 1911A1. I have two from Sprignfield Armory, a full size and a compact. I love my full size so much that I use it almost exclusively - even for CCW, I find very little difference in carry when it comes to the full size vs compact. I also agree on the Para Ordnance for a high-cap weapon - if you have large hands. I'm a hard core single action only kind of guy, but if I had to choose, my next favorite would be the Sig.
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I agree with everything but the suggestion of the Para Ordnance. If you handle one of them next to a Springfield they just dont compare. Springfield beats them out hands down. Carrying a fullsize 1911 concealed is very common. I would even go as far as saying that more people carry a full size 1911 than any other firearm.
Link Posted: 11/26/2002 9:33:21 AM EST
Hard to beat a 1911. If money is no object, get a Wilson Combat or an Ed Brown Kobra. The Beretta FS92 is a great pistol, except it shoots that rinky-dink 9mm cartridge.
Link Posted: 11/26/2002 9:47:23 AM EST
The Beretta FS92 is a great pistol, except it shoots that rinky-dink 9mm cartridge.
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That's what I'm saying. 92FS is a great gun, but if you are a man get a [b]96[/b]FS, same design, better caliber! Go with the INOX also
Link Posted: 11/26/2002 10:12:44 AM EST
Belfry, With all the guns at your disposal to try there in Georgia, you are better equipped to answer that than us. All the guys have mentioned great choices but they are mostly a personal choice. (One man's junk is another man's treasure) Determine what your needs are and go from there. If money is an issue (ammo cost),go with a 9 mm. If you like playing gunsmith and tinkering, go with a 1911. If you like the having one gun that shoots two calibers, choose a Glock 40SW. With a simple barrel replacement, you can shoot .357Sig. ( I'm not aware if you can do that with 40SW by other manufacturers). There is no categorical best. Only what's best for you. That said, I've fired Sigs, Berettas, Glocks, Brownings, Rugers, S&W autos and 1911s. Peronally, I find nothing that feels better than a full size 1911 that has a tuned trigger and good sights. It seems to just "track and dance" as if by thought.
Link Posted: 11/26/2002 10:24:10 AM EST
I am just trying to compile a list of sidearms chambered in .357 sig, 9mm, 40 S&W and 45 to test. I don't want to miss one, that's why I turned to you guys. The opinions are fine but what I am looking for is model numbers.
Link Posted: 11/26/2002 10:30:56 AM EST
Ruger P90 - Very Dependable and .45ACP is a plus in double action.
Link Posted: 11/26/2002 10:59:37 AM EST
CZ97b or the EAA witness (steel) 45. 10+1 45. Milder recoil than a 1911, mostly cuz it's a bit fuller size than a 1911. The High Power is also a good choice. 13+1 or 17+1 with the KRD mags. Owning a 1911 is not a prerequisite for being a "Real American."
Link Posted: 11/26/2002 11:08:26 AM EST
Unless you are rich and it doesn't matter, you will practice a helluva lot more with a 9mm. Ammo costs money.
Link Posted: 11/26/2002 11:28:06 AM EST
Originally Posted By Belfry_Express: I am just trying to compile a list of sidearms chambered in .357 sig, 9mm, 40 S&W and 45 to test. I don't want to miss one, that's why I turned to you guys. The opinions are fine but what I am looking for is model numbers.
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Glock 9mm>> model 17 .357>> model 31 .40>> model 22 .45>> model 21 Sig 9mm>> model 226 .357>> model 226 .40>> model 226 .45>> model 220 Beretta 9mm>> model 92 FS and G .40>> model 96 Para .40>> model P16 .45>> model P14 ARH
Link Posted: 11/26/2002 11:33:27 AM EST
Get a Glock 20 in 10mm and start reloading!
Link Posted: 11/26/2002 11:59:17 AM EST
Originally Posted By akethan: Get a Glock 20 in 10mm and start reloading!
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Gotta love the G20. It is kind of hard to argue with the logic of having (Count 'em) EIGHTEEN, 165gr JHP Cor-bons(flying out at 1250 fps BTW) ready to go, on demand. But the $$$ for blammo - ouch!
Link Posted: 11/26/2002 12:07:55 PM EST
Originally Posted By Citabria7GCBC:
Originally Posted By racer934: Sig, Sig and Sig. P226 in .357Sig, .40S&W and/or 9mm P220 in .45 -934
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i concur with the SIG P220 .45
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I, also, concur with the Sig Sauer P220. Best handgun I've ever owned, IMHO.
Link Posted: 11/26/2002 12:18:36 PM EST
Originally Posted By Belfry_Express: I am just trying to compile a list of sidearms chambered in .357 sig, 9mm, 40 S&W and 45 to test. I don't want to miss one, that's why I turned to you guys. The opinions are fine but what I am looking for is model numbers.
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Well, Belfry_Express, at 21 you are really just starting off. This is a very exciting time to get into hand guns because there are so many excellent ones out there. You really won't go wrong with any of the suggestions that have been posted here. My suggestion is to see what fits your budget right now, both in gun price AND ammo price, because it may take you quite a bit more ammo than you think to get good with whatever you buy, and you'll want to shoot it enough to stay good with it. Think of this as merely your first handgun purchase, not your last. Over time, you will probably buy a number of them and find the virtues and shortcomings of each. In other words, don't "overthink" this; just go out and get one of the many fine suggestions that is in your price range and enjoy it.
Link Posted: 11/26/2002 12:27:39 PM EST
[Last Edit: 11/26/2002 12:41:25 PM EST by Zardoz]
If you want quality that won't break your wallet, don't overlook an EAA Witness (STEEL frame only); which can be had in either 9mm, .40 S&W, or .45 acp. It's a little heavy (which means recoil is a joke, even with .45s), but they'll feed anything, pretty accurate, and have a decent trigger straight from the box. The only thing I did to mine was put a Mec-Gar adjustable rear sight on it. The whole thing cost me $400, NIB. Factory 15-rd mags go for $30 at CDNN, too.
Link Posted: 11/26/2002 12:39:06 PM EST
Whoever said a Glcok 21 is a good beginners gun is wrong! The gun was unbelievable recoil. It almost hurts. Sig P220 handles .45 better. The mags are also cooler. In glcoks I prefer the 17. COmapct glocks have too much recoil. My recommendation for you would be a Glock 17 or if you are willing to spend some extra dough get the SIG P226 in 9mm and send it to the SIG head armorer to tweak it (it will be awesome!). All you fool with compact pistols are nuts! The recoil is more than with full size weapons! The only reason I would ever buy a compact would be if NJ allows CCW all of the sudden (not under Fagenberg). Doggonit
Link Posted: 11/26/2002 1:31:03 PM EST
I like the CZ-75b, it's the improved Czech version of the Hi-power, costs about $350. And extra 15 round mags are obtainable for $40. The 1911 will always have its legions of fans, but I'll never understand why. Seems like they need a lot of tweaking to get up to standard acceptable performance. But 1911 fans ignore that because of the design's heritage, or they dump hundreds of dollars into them to get them up to modern autoloader reliability. My 1911 owning friends always say "Naw! Mine shoots great right out of the box!" but then I watch their piece misfeed over and over again "It doesn't like this ammo, I'll have to polish the feed ramp again."
Link Posted: 11/26/2002 5:45:10 PM EST
Bump for evening crew
Link Posted: 11/26/2002 5:56:22 PM EST
Don't overlook the Walther P99 series. 9mm or 357sig or 40s&w or 45. Adjustable backstrap for your handsize. The 40 can be converted to 357sig with a barrel change. 9mm has 16+1 hicaps available, 40/357 is 10+1, 45 is 7+1. All for under U$500. Fritz
Link Posted: 11/26/2002 6:08:35 PM EST
Link Posted: 11/26/2002 8:58:07 PM EST
[Last Edit: 11/26/2002 9:08:20 PM EST by BillofRights]
I have a very accurate Kimber .45 and a Beretta 92 FS 9mm. Both are as reliable as you could ask for. It kills me to say this, but if money is a factor, and if you are getting just one: Get the Beretta. Outstanding quality. Alot of Hi cap mags available. Cheaper to shoot. Double action trigger is a real bonus. The vast majority of people are more accurate with the low recoil of the 9mm. cost $400-600 ($100 to $600)less than a quality.45) The Beretta 96 .40 cal is an excellent candidate with easy handling, yet good power. A good .45 is best in well trained hands, but it takes years of training, and serious $$$$$$$$ to get to that level. Really, I think it comes down to which one is the best fit for you. Try out every handgun, and pick the one that feels right. Or just buy them all, One by One.......................
Link Posted: 11/26/2002 10:19:17 PM EST
45 ACP Double Action: Sig P229 Single Action: Les Baer 1911 - expensive but awesome. If you buy a Glock replace the factory barrel, since the Factory Barrels tend to accumulate lead quickly and raise the pressure to the point where they go Kaboom! HK's are ok. Ruger actually makes a servicable 45 ACP CZ 97B
Link Posted: 12/9/2002 9:20:25 PM EST
Belfry: What range is that in GA? I don't get down there very often, but would like to add it to the "cool places to shoot at, even if only once" list [:D] FOTBR
Link Posted: 12/9/2002 10:04:11 PM EST
Many suggestions here with which I agree. You have an excellent idea to try them out. I haven't regretted my first purchase (a few days before my 21st b-day) of a Browning HiPower. I like it so much, I have more than one now. My most recent handgun purchase was a HK USP in .40 I sweated over the decision of .40 or .357 Sig when I was considering the want for a more powerful cartridge. I am happy with the .40 cal and the USP package. I particularly prefer the hammer drop. Glad I didn't get the .357 Sig chambering. One's I've tried are punishing. All this talk about CZ's. Sounds interesting.
Link Posted: 12/10/2002 12:55:01 PM EST
Originally Posted By Aimless:
Originally Posted By Doggonit: Whoever said a Glcok 21 is a good beginners gun is wrong! The gun was unbelievable recoil. It almost hurts. Sig P220 handles .45 better. The mags are also cooler. In glcoks I prefer the 17. COmapct glocks have too much recoil. My recommendation for you would be a Glock 17 or if you are willing to spend some extra dough get the SIG P226 in 9mm and send it to the SIG head armorer to tweak it (it will be awesome!). All you fool with compact pistols are nuts! The recoil is more than with full size weapons! The only reason I would ever buy a compact would be if NJ allows CCW all of the sudden (not under Fagenberg). Doggonit
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Yer kidding? The Glock 21 is one of the lightest recoiling .45s I've shot. I've got the little Glock 36 and that's a pretty good gun, recoil wise also. And I'm not nutz for recoil, I hate my buddy's Anaconda, I shot the ground 15 feet in front of me once because I was watching the hammer come down. G21 mags are a little pricey, though.
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Hahaha!!! The 21 has the least recoil? Whatcha shoot before? All compacts with 2 inch barrels or something? The SIG P220 and the SW 1945 both have less recoil than the Glock .45 Monster.
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