Warning

 

Close

Confirm Action

Are you sure you wish to do this?

Confirm Cancel
Member Login
Site Notices
9/22/2017 12:11:25 AM
Posted: 10/4/2005 12:15:28 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 10/4/2005 12:25:28 PM EDT by PeteCO]
So, I am in negotiations with an out-of state company for a CFO position. Things are going kind of slow, and I continue to look for work here, just in case things don't work out.

Today, I drove down to Denver for an appointment with yet another one of those headhunter/temp/placement agencies. First, I wait 50 FUCKING MINUTES, because my "profile" is being re-loaded into the computer. I finally told the front desk droid that they could either see me without the damn thing or I was leaving. "Uh, yeah, I guess we could do that". Sigh. Then I wait in a small conference room for an additional 10 minutes. At this point I am pissed, it is an hour past my appointment time.

Now, let me explain for a moment how these interactions go. You see a position online, which is the same position every other agency has listed because they are all whoring for the same hiring company. You call the place up, and they want you to "register". What this means is that you have to drive to see these asshats, fill out all kinds pf paperwork, summarize your employment (even though they already have your resume), and then spend about 2 minutes talking about the job you originally applied for. With someone who knows jack shit about your skillset. Then they tell you that you are now in their "database" and they can look for other positions for you too. Rinse, repeat. I have even had to suffer through a stupid fucking sexual harassment and "how to lift stuff" video. Not sure what lifting shit has to do with finance, but I suppose that's what I get for going to a place like Manpower. Now, no one really believes that they search their database when new positions pop up, first because it is cluttered with tons of bad data but also because all these agencies post the same damn job on the same day, when a prospective employer contacts them. Why post it if you have such a fine selection in your "database"?

Anyway, I digress. In comes the recruiter. She implies that I was late, because the moron at the front desk didn't tell her I was there on time. I straighten that out, and we begin to talk about my experience/resume. At this point she informs me that not only will I never get anything close to a CFO position (even though that's what I have been doing), but that a controller job is out of reach too. She suggests an assistant controller "goal" at about 1/3rd of the pay I am used to seeing. This is because, while I have several years of executive mangement, I don't have "10 years in the trenches doing accounting". Are you fucking kidding me? I have sat on a Board of Directors, I do finance every day, but since I wasn't a bookkeeper at Joe's Pizza for a decade I'm not cool enough for them. I asked if that then disqualified me for the position that I drove and hour and a half to talk to her about, and why I was even there since she has had my resume for a week. See above paragraph - they wanted to get me "registered" and meet me so they feel more "comfortable" sending my resume to companies.... When I informed her about the CFO position I am currently looking at, you could tell she thought I was BS-ing her. The meeting ended with her suggestion that I take a Quickbooks test, even though I would probably never run across it in a corporate environment....

I leave there at about 3:45, pissed because I know how traffic from Denver to Ft Collins will be. I get to my car and I have a parking ticket since I waited in their lobby longer than my whole visit should have been. Unbelievably, on top of that, I have a note on my windshield from someone who fucked up my rear bumper trying to parallel park. Oh well, at least she didn't hit and run.

The whole job-search business is pissing me off. These jackasses will create such a narrowly-defined job description that maybe one person on Earth will fit. Their lame-ass software requirements are the best: "Oh, you know Excel 2003? Well, we were really looking for someone with Excel 2000 experience. Sorry." You fucking bitch! Software is software, and takes about 5 seconds to learn. Also, some things are implied - I shouldn't have to list every version of Windows I can use on my damn resume, lest they assume that I used a IBM selectric to create my resume.

Did I mention that I hate these people?
Link Posted: 10/4/2005 12:55:15 AM EDT
I hear you.

I'm not in a position to get such a high caliber job as you, however the job I just started I got through a recruiting agency. I think I got lucky, something I said to them on the phone got me started on the right foot. So, come down at 1400 for an 'interview'.

Riiiight...interview...that meant coming down, filling out a too-many-times-copied 'application' and them losing the resume I sent them. The application had a bunch of lame math questions on it, and generally didn't impress me. (I got dressed up for THIS?)

Anyway, they hooked me up with an interview where I work now, at least, which was worth it. I'm happy where I'm at, and while I don't make as much as my top paying job yet, I do make more than my last job with lots more independance (which is a really good thing). Of course I'm just starting out in a new field, so I don't expect to make big bucks after only a real year or so of experience.

Hope everything works out for you.
Link Posted: 10/4/2005 4:44:08 AM EDT
Sorry for your pain. And I do know what you are talking about. I never give Manpower the time of day, what a bunch of scammers. They try to pay less than 25% of the billable rate, or try to hit the prospective employer for $65K for recruitment.

I have managed to pick up a couple of jobs using recruiters, including my current gig. This one was most unique, the recruiter is in VA, the job is in Lincoln, NE and I was in Greeley, CO.

I have still not met the recruiter FTF, and interviewed with the end user 3 days after answering the ad. Not the usual SOP.


good luck on the CFO position!
Link Posted: 10/4/2005 5:15:30 AM EDT
Yea I worked for them once. I got "fired" from a company I was assigned to under them for opening a DOS prompt. No shit! The manager had never seen one and assumed I was hacking! No questions. No mention or asking me what I was doing. I was informed 3 hours later by ManPower I would no longer be working that assignment!

-Foxxz
Link Posted: 10/4/2005 5:43:36 AM EDT
My wife is having a hell of a time changing jobs. She is trying to get into Pharma- sales and has lots of practical and real world experience. She has some sales experience doing contract work for my company but no Pharma- sales experience. She is super intelligent and will do well but can't get past the recruiters and HR departments. She has talked to and met other reps and Regional managers who she made a great impression on but even they can't seem to help her much.

Recruiters and HR people are paper pushers and can't make a real judgement about how successful someone will be in a position to save their life.

Link Posted: 10/4/2005 5:45:06 AM EDT
Sorry to hear that - I had a great experience a few months ago with a recruiter. Called her up (she's in TN, I'm in FL) and said I had just graduated from Rad Tech school. Within 5 days she had me 3 positions to apply for, did all the work (I just sent a resume), got a phone interview the next week and was hired at the end of the phone interview. Got a great salary, too.
Link Posted: 10/4/2005 6:27:20 AM EDT
The wife went through the same crap you did and never had a decent hit from the two Recruiters she was using.
They tried the same bait and switch jobs way below what she was looking for.
She was asked to go one interviews that were way below what she was looking for many times. She went on the first two and then told recruiters to narrow the search to what she requested and to not bother her with jobs that didnt meet her spec's. She never heard back from them.
She ended up finding her position on her own. After she was hired she found out one of the recruiters she was using had that job to fill and didnt even let her know.
Link Posted: 10/4/2005 6:57:53 AM EDT
That happens a lot baddog
Link Posted: 10/4/2005 7:17:06 AM EDT
I was let go from a temp position because I shipped 200 flyers to the wrong hotel. I was working there for 3 months, and didn't know they had 8 hotels in Miami (I only knew of the first 7 >.<).

I was the only one who knew how to work the shipping equipment, print labels, work the manifest, and send off The End of Day. Better yet, I took over the position from some one who wasn't going to be back for 4 months due to complications from child birth.

Link Posted: 10/4/2005 9:30:25 AM EDT
Keep in mind, to be a "recruiter" at these resume mills all you need to do is show up on time. Most recruiters last a few months. They don't have desks or even email addresses. It is a very common 'temp' job right out of college.

I DETEST recruiters as well. I'm hard of hearing, so I suck sometimes on the phone but I'm fine in person, as long as we aren't talking about a crazy accent.

But the moment the recruiter finds out you have a disability they come up with some gigantic horseshit excuse why you can't do the job. "oh this job requires talking on the phone". Well, what the fuck job doesn't?

If I saw a recruiter being stabbed to death in a dark alley, the only damn question in my mind is whether or not to take a photograph to hang on the mantle.

Link Posted: 10/4/2005 9:37:23 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 10/4/2005 9:42:01 AM EDT by shotar]
Link Posted: 10/4/2005 10:02:56 AM EDT
I dealt with those types too. The recruiter obviously was not qualified to recruit for that position. I found it best to politely excuse myself and leave. Add to your job search log that they are idiots, and then talk to different recruiter agencies.

Never pay any recruiter to find you a job, and always assume that these recruiter companies are not out to help you.

I used them as a resource. Key word "USE". If you don't like how they treat you. Leave.
Link Posted: 10/4/2005 10:58:15 AM EDT

Originally Posted By shotar:
Why are you talking to a temp firm about executive level jobs. The problem is not you, or recruiters, or her, its the combination. She is recruiting out of her league. My guess is that some HR type gave them the search assignment as a me too gimme. She does not know what a CFO does therefore she is looking at the HR generated job requirements. Here is a simple test for you. Ask the recruiter what level candidates they normally place. Ask if they have direct contact with the hiring manager. If its not your level and the second answer is NO, then you are talking to the wrong firm.

Another quick note. Unless it is a retained search, a real recruiter does not have time to meet you in person. A temp agency has to, because they want to make sure that anyone they send out does not have a third eyeball and knows how to dress properly as well as bathe. I do use a questionaire that goes beyond most resumes but it is all practical stuff that people sometimes forget to include but is helpful to know in order to sell your background. I email it out and expect it emailed back. If you have the track record to match the level my clients retain me to find, I likely don't have to look at you in person and honestly don't have time too.



Good points. What happens alot here is that a company will be hiring for a position, but instead of posting it themselves, they call every agency in town, who posts the same friggin job description all over the various job boards.

As a matter of fact, I figured out who the original posting was for (agencies don't give this info out) so I am going to walk my resume in directly to the employer tomorrow.
Link Posted: 10/4/2005 11:30:39 AM EDT

Originally Posted By PeteCO:

The whole job-search business is pissing me off. These jackasses will create such a narrowly-defined job description that maybe one person on Earth will fit. Their lame-ass software requirements are the best: "Oh, you know Excel 2003? Well, we were really looking for someone with Excel 2000 experience. Sorry." You fucking bitch! Software is software, and takes about 5 seconds to learn. Also, some things are implied - I shouldn't have to list every version of Windows I can use on my damn resume, lest they assume that I used a IBM selectric to create my resume.

Did I mention that I hate these people?



Human Resources is the worst thing to ever happen to hiring. I run into the same crap in my field. A person with an education in physics is perfectly well qualified for a variety of positions that have titles like "technician", "engineer" (not all, but some), "physical scientist", etc. However, the asshat human resources people assume that if you don't have a degree in engineering, you aren't qualified for any job that has "engineering" anywhere in the description.

In contemplating starting my own business (I have a couple of ideas I am working on), I feel much better knowing that I will be receiveing applications directly. Just because someone has a degree in English or education doesn't mean they wouldn't make a perfectly good employee in a scientific business.

Jim
Link Posted: 10/4/2005 11:43:36 AM EDT
Ahem.

<---

AsshattRY, not asshattery.



</hijack>

And yah...recruiters are lower than sinking whaleshit. Some are good and actually give a shit, realizing that they can make more with references and re-placing people when they get tired of gigs.

More than half are soul-sucking assclowns of the 7th order. They wouldn't even make good paperweights because they have too much hot air in them. Hampsters get fed up with their bullshit. Dogs cross the street when they come down the road. Cats don't care, but then again, they never did.

I've had a couple good headhunters...and a metric fuckton of bad ones.

Link Posted: 10/4/2005 11:58:51 AM EDT
Is the local prison hiring? Maybe you're qualified for that? But it probably won't pay what you're "used to seeing."
Link Posted: 10/4/2005 12:22:31 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 10/4/2005 12:27:57 PM EDT by PeteCO]

Originally Posted By RyanAR15:
I hear you.

I'm not in a position to get such a high caliber job as you, however the job I just started I got through a recruiting agency. I think I got lucky, something I said to them on the phone got me started on the right foot. So, come down at 1400 for an 'interview'.

Riiiight...interview...that meant coming down, filling out a too-many-times-copied 'application' and them losing the resume I sent them. The application had a bunch of lame math questions on it, and generally didn't impress me. (I got dressed up for THIS?)

Anyway, they hooked me up with an interview where I work now, at least, which was worth it. I'm happy where I'm at, and while I don't make as much as my top paying job yet, I do make more than my last job with lots more independance (which is a really good thing). Of course I'm just starting out in a new field, so I don't expect to make big bucks after only a real year or so of experience.

Hope everything works out for you.



Yep, that's the routine. I think it's because most of these agencies started out by specializing in mouth-breathers who really couldn't read a ruler or do basic arithmetic. So they test you for lame-ass crap. Since you are holding out hope that the position might be worth going through the bullshit for, you comply. Do you know how many Excel, bookkeeping, and Quickbooks tests I have taken this year? And it's not like the Excel tests are testing real skills - my grandma could pass one of those tests.

Blowing off steam, just blowing off steam.......
Link Posted: 10/4/2005 12:27:45 PM EDT
Link Posted: 10/4/2005 12:31:05 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 10/4/2005 12:32:01 PM EDT by PeteCO]

Originally Posted By shotar:
Just be aware that if you do choose to do this, and the agency presents your information first, they will get the right of referral. They will bill the company for hiring you. If however they didn't, you are certainly free to do so on your own. If you are qualified, and they didn't present you, then they are idiots. Good candidates are very hard to come by right now.



Thanks for the heads-up. The recruiter told me she would not be presenting my resume to them at all.

I'm just tired of applying for stuff and being told I'm overqualified, and then when a job comes along that I am VERY well qualified for, being told I am UNDER qualified. I mean, WTF?

Time to finish my book and then start my own business. In fact, if the position in MN doesn't work out, and I find nothing here in the next few weeks, I'll do just that. I hate sifting through the new job postings every morning, only to figure out that 100 postings really mean 3 jobs whored out by 30 different temp/placement agencies.
Link Posted: 10/4/2005 12:32:15 PM EDT
Link Posted: 10/4/2005 12:33:14 PM EDT
Oh. I thought you meant military recruiters. I used to be one.

I remember this one kid that I fed pizza and beer and then he couldn't even pass the damn ASVAB.

What a waste of my time. The little bastich.
Link Posted: 10/4/2005 12:33:41 PM EDT
Link Posted: 10/4/2005 12:34:25 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 10/4/2005 12:35:26 PM EDT by PeteCO]

Originally Posted By shotar:
Pete email your stuff to me. You can do it through the site if you like. I can make no promises but would be glad to talk to you.




Thanks Shotar. Will do. I am originally from Ohio so that area is fine by me.
Link Posted: 10/4/2005 7:44:47 PM EDT
A good in-house recruiter screens people out. That's the job you try and get the best 3-5 candidates in front of the hiring manager.

Most Agency recruiters rank right up there with used car salesman in ethics and skill. They don't give a shit about either the candidate or the receiving company they want their commission. Most companies won't deal with Agencies as a rule, see the above, most agencies send garbage.

A good agency recruiter, and there are some, will not only be able to technically qualify the candidate, but has developed a good enough rapport that they are trusted to only bring in qualified candidates.

Most agency recruiters work on a numbers game, make 100 calls a day, get 20 resumes, to submit and get 1 or 2 offers.

I went to work for Volt in a special program and my supervisor pulled the numbers game on me. I was hired to support certain operations of companies like Raytheon, Boeing, TRW, Northrop-Grumman, anyhow as you might guess they were very particular on what they wanted, and I worked closely with their rep to get a good understanding of what they wanted. My supe screamed about the numbers and I went back to him and showed him what I was doing and that they fit. "I don't care if they fit, just send more." It took me and his boss to convince him that wasting my time, the customers times by sending shit wasn't helping anybody. My Boss tried to embarass by asking How the hell I knew what they wanted and why did I think I was so good. Well maybe it's because I was on the proposal development team and I know all the managers and I'm not going to ruin MY credibility and the company credibility by sending bs resumes. Even when I was in Program Management I used to go in HR and explain to the HR folks where they could find some of the specialized people.

85-90% or more of Agency Recruiters and in-house HR types are not able to adequately screen higher level professional positions until they have had 10-15 years experience. Most have no Finance, or Technical or Professional expertise, (if they did they'ld work there). If you are looking for a higher level position, you ought to be able to determine who the right people at your target companies and send your resume direct to them.


Link Posted: 10/5/2005 5:13:51 PM EDT
Robert Half - Have you tried them?
Link Posted: 10/5/2005 5:23:32 PM EDT
Link Posted: 10/5/2005 5:25:39 PM EDT

Originally Posted By HIPPO:
Robert Half - Have you tried them?



They suck, like all the rest.
Link Posted: 10/5/2005 5:44:58 PM EDT
I can tell you exactly why you got treated like that. Nobody goes to manpower looking to fill a CFO position. You would have probably actually ended up as a temporary bank teller someplace or maybe a data entry clerk.
Top Top