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10/20/2017 1:01:18 AM
9/22/2017 12:11:25 AM
Posted: 8/15/2005 4:01:57 PM EDT
...bigger bitch than Magda Goebbels.





When it became obvious that Germany had lost the war and Hitler would kill himself she murdered all six of her kids by poison rather than let them grow up in a world without National Socialism and Hitler.

Some have tried to excuse her actions by saying the Soviets would have tortured and murdered her children and while the Russians did commit great acts of brutality and would most likely killed Magda and her jackass of a husband it is unlikely the children would have been killed or even harmed.

Several people survived who were in the bunker with Hitler.

Just sickening.
Link Posted: 8/15/2005 4:03:44 PM EDT
Don't know that bitch would apply to her, more like psychopath.
Link Posted: 8/15/2005 4:03:56 PM EDT
Feinstein, Sheehan, Hillary Clinton, and that bitch who drowned her children by rolling the car into a lake because her boyfriend didn't want kids come readily to mind, but I'm not sure about some of them.
Link Posted: 8/15/2005 4:05:35 PM EDT
Link Posted: 8/15/2005 4:06:18 PM EDT
Link Posted: 8/15/2005 4:06:20 PM EDT
what about that bitch who drowned her 4 or 5 kids, in the bathtub in texas I believe it was.........she certinely gets a honorable mention
Link Posted: 8/15/2005 4:07:32 PM EDT
Yeah, well, thats nazism for ya. I think though ( not that it really matters ) that is was he that poisoned her and the kids. At least taht was what I kept hearing on the history channel. Anyway those beautiful little girls are dead and it wasn't right what they did.
Anything that involved/involves kids being hurt/killed isn't part of what I want to think about. I have 3 kids myself and do not dwell on what could happen to them if I let down my guard. I do not do well when I hear of someone abusing thier kids or kids getting killed ot raped or whatever. It's awful.
Link Posted: 8/15/2005 4:07:49 PM EDT
Close, but no cigar:


Eric
Link Posted: 8/15/2005 4:08:30 PM EDT

Originally Posted By mobius:
what about that bitch who drowned her 4 or 5 kids, in the bathtub in texas I believe it was.........she certinely gets a honorable mention



He said "bitch", not "completely fucking batshit insane sociopath who hears voices".

I'd include her in the list, but unlike her, Magda and the bitch who drowned her kids were completely aware of what they were doing. What she did was insane; what they did was cold-blooded murder.
Link Posted: 8/15/2005 4:13:40 PM EDT
Well, as far as I have heard nobody to date knows the name of the mother, but a few weeks ago here in AZ an newly born female infant of hispanic origin was found dead in a Porta-Potty at a construction site.

Link Posted: 8/15/2005 4:18:07 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Swindle1984:
Feinstein, Sheehan, Hillary Clinton, Janet Reno and that bitch who drowned her children by rolling the car into a lake because her boyfriend didn't want kids come readily to mind, but I'm not sure about some of them.



See above and +1.

Danny
Link Posted: 8/15/2005 4:19:16 PM EDT

Originally Posted By The_Beer_Slayer:
actually she probably did her kids a favor. the soviets would have crucified them.



Oh yeah, I'll keep that in mind next time I need a favor.

Here are your options:

A. You can be poisoned by your mother.
B. Take your chances with the Russians.
Link Posted: 8/15/2005 4:23:12 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/15/2005 4:24:44 PM EDT by sysop]

Originally Posted By Swindle1984:

Originally Posted By mobius:
what about that bitch who drowned her 4 or 5 kids, in the bathtub in texas I believe it was.........she certinely gets a honorable mention



He said "bitch", not "completely fucking batshit insane sociopath who hears voices".

I'd include her in the list, but unlike her, Magda and the bitch who drowned her kids were completely aware of what they were doing. What she did was insane; what they did was cold-blooded murder.



Yeah what was it that she said? Something like Jesus told her to kill her children to prevent them from becoming corrupted by the sinful world.
Link Posted: 8/15/2005 4:25:14 PM EDT

Originally Posted By sysop:

Originally Posted By Swindle1984:

Originally Posted By mobius:
what about that bitch who drowned her 4 or 5 kids, in the bathtub in texas I believe it was.........she certinely gets a honorable mention



He said "bitch", not "completely fucking batshit insane sociopath who hears voices".

I'd include her in the list, but unlike her, Magda and the bitch who drowned her kids were completely aware of what they were doing. What she did was insane; what they did was cold-blooded murder.



Yeah what was it that said? Something like Jesus told her to kill her children to prevent them from becoming corrupted by the sinful world.



Like I said, fruitier than a convention of Richard Simmons clones on viagra.

Hrm. That analogy doesn't quite work. Uh... Nuttier than a Reeses factory.
Link Posted: 8/15/2005 4:27:11 PM EDT

Originally Posted By The_Beer_Slayer:
actually she probably did her kids a favor. the soviets would have crucified them.




+1
Link Posted: 8/15/2005 4:30:51 PM EDT
Link Posted: 8/15/2005 4:37:56 PM EDT

Originally Posted By The_Beer_Slayer:

Originally Posted By sysop:

Originally Posted By The_Beer_Slayer:
actually she probably did her kids a favor. the soviets would have crucified them.



Oh yeah, I'll keep that in mind next time I need a favor.

Here are your options:

A. You can be poisoned by your mother.
B. Take your chances with the Russians.





not saying she wasn't evil or a complete loon. just staing a fact. had the russian found out who those kids were when the took berlin, no amount of torture would have been spared. i never said it was a right choice, just that in the long run it was probably the best for those poor kids.



What would the Russians have hoped to gain by torturing children??
Link Posted: 8/15/2005 4:37:57 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Swindle1984:
Feinstein, Sheehan, Hillary Clinton, and that bitch who drowned her children by rolling the car into a lake because her boyfriend didn't want kids come readily to mind, but I'm not sure about some of them.



Please. I despise them all but they are hardly Magda Goebbeles. The last one is close.
Link Posted: 8/15/2005 4:38:29 PM EDT

Originally Posted By The_Beer_Slayer:
actually she probably did her kids a favor. the soviets would have crucified them.



I doubt it.
Link Posted: 8/15/2005 4:39:31 PM EDT

Originally Posted By coondog:
Yeah, well, thats nazism for ya. I think though ( not that it really matters ) that is was he that poisoned her and the kids. At least taht was what I kept hearing on the history channel. Anyway those beautiful little girls are dead and it wasn't right what they did.
Anything that involved/involves kids being hurt/killed isn't part of what I want to think about. I have 3 kids myself and do not dwell on what could happen to them if I let down my guard. I do not do well when I hear of someone abusing thier kids or kids getting killed ot raped or whatever. It's awful.



All reliable accounts state she did it. I don't think Joseph had the balls to do it or stand up to her.
Link Posted: 8/15/2005 4:40:39 PM EDT

Originally Posted By SteyrAUG:

Originally Posted By The_Beer_Slayer:
actually she probably did her kids a favor. the soviets would have crucified them.



I doubt it.



+1
Link Posted: 8/15/2005 4:40:58 PM EDT
Link Posted: 8/15/2005 4:41:39 PM EDT

Originally Posted By sysop:
Here are your options:

A. You can be poisoned by your mother.
B. Take your chances with the Russians.



I'll take "The Godless Russian Bastards" for $800.
Link Posted: 8/15/2005 4:42:33 PM EDT

Originally Posted By thelastgunslinger:

Originally Posted By The_Beer_Slayer:

Originally Posted By sysop:

Originally Posted By The_Beer_Slayer:
actually she probably did her kids a favor. the soviets would have crucified them.



Oh yeah, I'll keep that in mind next time I need a favor.

Here are your options:

A. You can be poisoned by your mother.
B. Take your chances with the Russians.





not saying she wasn't evil or a complete loon. just staing a fact. had the russian found out who those kids were when the took berlin, no amount of torture would have been spared. i never said it was a right choice, just that in the long run it was probably the best for those poor kids.



What would the Russians have hoped to gain by torturing children??




Little or nothing. Furthermore MANY high ranking nazis captured by the Russians from the bunker survived. The kids also would have been too high profile for the Russians to torture or murder.

Russians did kill kids. But mostly ones shooting at them and those who weren't related to anyone important.
Link Posted: 8/15/2005 4:45:32 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Gloftoe:

Originally Posted By sysop:
Here are your options:

A. You can be poisoned by your mother.
B. Take your chances with the Russians.



I'll take "The Godless Russian Bastards" for $800.



EXACTLY. I don't care if Hitlery was declared dictator of the Socialist States of America tommarow. I'd give my kids every fucking chance I could possibly give them.

Magda was just a self centered bitch ass whore who KNEW she was gonna die or be killed along with her neutered fuckstick of a husband and didn't want anyone to outlive her. Basically if "she" had to die, everyone has to die.

Thanks Mom, you fucking whore.
Link Posted: 8/15/2005 4:46:09 PM EDT
Knowing how Stalin is, I can't say I blame her for killing her kids. Her kids would have gone through hell for the rest of their natural lives and she would have been tortured too. Not that I sympathize with her either. She and her asshat hubby were nasty nazis and after what they perpetrated on the German people and Europe, they got their medicine.

We got some pretty nasty beotches here in the US too. There's the lady who said a black man car-jacked her with her two kids inside. Like one black female coworker told me, "Black men leave kids, they don't take them." Dang if that beotch who made that accusation didn't stir enough of the racial pot before she was proven to be a murderess.

But I digress. Biggest wicked witch beotch awards goes to Hitlery & Fineswine.
Link Posted: 8/15/2005 4:46:42 PM EDT

Originally Posted By The_Beer_Slayer:

Originally Posted By thelastgunslinger:

Originally Posted By The_Beer_Slayer:

Originally Posted By sysop:

Originally Posted By The_Beer_Slayer:
actually she probably did her kids a favor. the soviets would have crucified them.



Oh yeah, I'll keep that in mind next time I need a favor.

Here are your options:

A. You can be poisoned by your mother.
B. Take your chances with the Russians.





not saying she wasn't evil or a complete loon. just staing a fact. had the russian found out who those kids were when the took berlin, no amount of torture would have been spared. i never said it was a right choice, just that in the long run it was probably the best for those poor kids.



What would the Russians have hoped to gain by torturing children??




don't you remeber who was in charge then? Stalin was almost as bad as hitler. National vengence for a start.



So why weren't all the high ranking officials in the bunker who WERE captured by the Russians not tortured to death?
Link Posted: 8/15/2005 4:49:00 PM EDT

Originally Posted By 4v50:
Knowing how Stalin is, I can't say I blame her for killing her kids. Her kids would have gone through hell for the rest of their natural lives and she would have been tortured too. Not that I sympathize with her either. She and her asshat hubby were nasty nazis and after what they perpetrated on the German people and Europe, they got their medicine.

We got some pretty nasty beotches here in the US too. There's the lady who said a black man car-jacked her with her two kids inside. Like one black female coworker told me, "Black men leave kids, they don't take them." Dang if that beotch who made that accusation didn't stir enough of the racial pot before she was proven to be a murderess.

But I digress. Biggest wicked witch beotch awards goes to Hitlery & Fineswine.



Magda and her husband would most likely have been executed at Nuremburg.

Lotsa kids in Germany were the children of infamous nazis. They lived.

Link Posted: 8/15/2005 4:50:10 PM EDT
Link Posted: 8/15/2005 5:00:59 PM EDT
The Bitch of Buchenwald-Ilse Koch

www.auschwitz.dk/Women/Koch.htm
Link Posted: 8/15/2005 6:09:53 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/15/2005 6:13:22 PM EDT by FN-TPS]
Man AUG....you need to read up on what the Russian's did to eleven year old girls, in Berlin after the fall then, because it wasn't pretty....The Russians would have killed the whole lot of them, faster than you could say "Anastasia cried in vain.".

If there'd been anybody left worth killing, in the bunker. The Russian's would most likely have taken care of it, with flamethrower's.

I'm not one of the Germanophile's here, that try to find glory in the exploits of the German Leadership or the German Army, for that matter. Anybody who's ever read anything, I've written on the subject of the Germans in WWII, can clearly see, that I loath them and everything they stood for.

That being said though....I have to ask...Just where the hell do you think Magda Goebbles, was going to go? It wasn't like she could just pick up the kids and leave...She was standing there, as Hitler ordered a growing list of those he considered disloyal or traitorous to the Reich...shot.

Der Fuhrer, her husband and maybe even Magda herself, had been on a needle binge of Methamphetimine cocktailed with god knows what, for months. administered by Himmler's hand picked Doctor, Ludwig Stumpfegger ( Dr Morell, who'd been jacking Hitler up with Meth and extract of bulls testicles, was smart enough not to be anywhere around the bunker.)

They were all tweeking, waiting to die, listening to Bach and having people shot! Thats not really an environment conducive to a realistic assessment of your problems.

I think Magda Goebbles, had known for many months, that the top German leadership were dead men walking, when the Russian's got to Berlin. The German Government has been passing out those little boxes with the brass container, with the glass capsules inside for quite a while.

It was a whole society, that knew it had nowhere to hide.

Link Posted: 8/15/2005 6:31:00 PM EDT

Originally Posted By The_Beer_Slayer:
because they were military targets that would serve them better by being put on trial. there are worse things than death and i have NO doubt those kids would have been put through hell. no one would have known where they were, they were not high profile enough for anyone to care. goebells himself yes, his family no.



The fact that Traudl Junge made it out proves it was more than possible.
Link Posted: 8/15/2005 6:33:33 PM EDT

Originally Posted By hughjafj:
The Bitch of Buchenwald-Ilse Koch

www.auschwitz.dk/Women/Koch.htm



She initially only got 4 fucking years?
Link Posted: 8/15/2005 6:35:24 PM EDT

Originally Posted By FN-TPS:
Man AUG....you need to read up on what the Russian's did to eleven year old girls, in Berlin after the fall then, because it wasn't pretty....The Russians would have killed the whole lot of them, faster than you could say "Anastasia cried in vain.".



I'm pretty well read.

I also know who did and who did not make it out of the bunker. Those kids had a chance.

Furthermore had they taken any of the previous opportunties to escape offered to their parents their escape was almost 100% certain.

Those offers were declined.
Link Posted: 8/15/2005 6:42:03 PM EDT
Yeah...But Junge wasn't Goebbles or any of the "inner circle".

Look at the preperations Stalin made for spiriting Hitler and the Goebbles remains about after the fall, then imagine, what would have been done had they been taken alive....If they'd fallen into the Soviets hands, Hitler Goebbles, Goering, Himmler....None of them would have ever made it to Nurimburg.

Goebbles and his wife would have been stuffed and sitting in Stalin's den, While Goebbles children would have been stuffed and adorning the wall of Lavrenty Beria's office.
Link Posted: 8/15/2005 6:48:28 PM EDT

Originally Posted By FN-TPS:
Yeah...But Junge wasn't Goebbles or any of the "inner circle".

Look at the preperations Stalin made for spiriting Hitler and the Goebbles remains about after the fall, then imagine, what would have been done had they been taken alive....If they'd fallen into the Soviets hands, Hitler Goebbles, Goering, Himmler....None of them would have ever made it to Nurimburg.

Goebbles and his wife would have been stuffed and sitting in Stalin's den, While Goebbles children would have been stuffed and adorning the wall of Lavrenty Beria's office.



As I said...

Furthermore had they taken any of the previous opportunties to escape offered to their parents their escape was almost 100% certain.

Those offers were declined.
Link Posted: 8/15/2005 6:58:11 PM EDT
AUG

I'm pretty well read.


I don't doubt for a second, that you are. I enjoy contributing to your threads and usually find them quite insightful.

I was merely pointing out, mass rape of German civilian females, at the hands of the Soviet Army, was a fact of the closing days of WWII.

I do believe, that you are being somewhat idealistically nieve, in your assessment of the Soviets propensity for following the will of international law.

Like I said...If the Soviets had gotten ahold of the Goebbles's...I doubt very seriously, they'd have ever been heard from again, untill we dusted off some file in the basement of the Lubyanka, after the fall of Communism in the 90's.

They almost certainly, wouldn't have made it to Nurimburg.
Link Posted: 8/15/2005 7:05:40 PM EDT

Originally Posted By FN-TPS:
AUG

I'm pretty well read.


I don't doubt for a second, that you are. I enjoy contributing to your threads and usually find them quite insightful.

I was merely pointing out, mass rape of German civilian females, at the hands of the Soviet Army, was a fact of the closing days of WWII.

I do believe, that you are being somewhat idealistically nieve, in your assessment of the Soviets propensity for following the will of international law.

Like I said...If the Soviets had gotten ahold of the Goebbles's...I doubt very seriously, they'd have ever been heard from again, untill we dusted off some file in the basement of the Lubyanka, after the fall of Communism in the 90's.

They almost certainly, wouldn't have made it to Nurimburg.



I'm well aware of how bad it was, even privy too a handful of personal accounts.

But it remains more than "possible" that those kids could have gotten out.

Had they left before the Russians encircled Berlin (and many opportunities were presented) their escape unharmed in to western areas would have been a certainty.

As such I stand by my assessment that she was a bitch ass whore who killed her kids because "she" wasn't going to live. As such it is offensive to in any way defend her by saying she spared her kids the "Russian" experience.
Link Posted: 8/15/2005 7:11:40 PM EDT
AUG

Furthermore had they taken any of the previous opportunties to escape offered to their parents their escape was almost 100% certain.

Those offers were declined.



Could you list a couple of those opportunities for escape? Because all of the ones, I can think of, would have led directly to a firing squad of swinging by the neck at the end of a piano wire, If Hitler decided that that his closest followers were betrayers of the German People.

he fact that Himmler was not there, in the bunker at the end, had Hitler calling for his arrest and execution. Had the Goebbles's attempted to leave the Fuhrer's side, Hitler would have almost certainly ordered their arrest and execution as well...along with the children as well.
Link Posted: 8/15/2005 7:20:06 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/15/2005 7:21:41 PM EDT by SteyrAUG]

Originally Posted By FN-TPS:
AUG

Furthermore had they taken any of the previous opportunties to escape offered to their parents their escape was almost 100% certain.

Those offers were declined.



Could you list a couple of those opportunities for escape? Because all of the ones, I can think of, would have led directly to a firing squad of swinging by the neck at the end of a piano wire, If Hitler decided that that his closest followers were betrayers of the German People.

he fact that Himmler was not there, in the bunker at the end, had Hitler calling for his arrest and execution. Had the Goebbles's attempted to leave the Fuhrer's side, Hitler would have almost certainly ordered their arrest and execution as well...along with the children as well.



Sure.

All of the opportunties that existed prior to the Goebbels family arriving at the bunker. If Magda and Joseph arrived by themselves Hitler certainly would NOT have ordered their kids found and shot.

The opportunity to have them escorted to a safe area by the request of Joseph or Magda. Hitler would have approved either request.

The opportunities for others to take the children to safety by key individuals such as Albert Speer who specifically asked Magda to consider getting the children to safety and would have taken them personally if asked. Hitler would have approved this just as he allowed Albert Speer to leave the bunker.

They could have even left with Traudl Junge (if they handn't been killed already) who did manage to escape on her own without being raped.

Also keep in mind Magda killed her children AFTER Hitler was dead. At this point her husband could have simply issued a directive to have the children taken to safety. Any number of people would have offered to carry out such a directive.

What killed her children was Magda herself who stated she didn't want to see her children live in a world without National Socialism (this was related to Albert Speer when he suggested the children be taken to safety) and she probably didn't want to see her children (or anyone) live if she had to die.

Also Himmler was accussed of treason, not because he wasn't at the bunker, but because he initiated peace negotiations and declared himself "in authority" to do so.
Link Posted: 8/15/2005 7:22:37 PM EDT

I challenge Arfcom to find me a bigger bitch than Magda Goebbels.


Several on par with Magda, if not above, based on death counts and manners of murder employed:

Martha Beck
Ma Bender
Myra Hindley
Debra Brown
Amelia Dyer
Belle Gunness
Marybeth Tinning
Aileen Wuornos

(Gotta throw the FBI profilers here a bone once in awhile, 'ya know.)
Link Posted: 8/15/2005 8:24:46 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/15/2005 8:29:29 PM EDT by FN-TPS]
Aug in Black

TPS answers in red

Sure.

All of the opportunties that existed prior to the Goebbels family arriving at the bunker. If Magda and Joseph arrived by themselves Hitler certainly would NOT have ordered their kids found and shot.

We'er not talking about George Bush here, we'er talking about Adolf Hitler. You speak of Hitler as though he were a rational, modern western leader, Not the drug addled, vindictive, paranoid meglamanic, that he was. The slightest hint, that the Goebbles's had sent their children to safety, would have screamed to a paranoid Hitler, that the Gobbles's were plotting their own disloyal escape.

The opportunity to have them escorted to a safe area by the request of Joseph or Magda. Hitler would have approved either request.

I'm not so sure of that. Remenber that cult leader Jim Jones, held one of the children in his lap during the kool-aid drinking. Hitler adored the Goebbles children. To him, they may have represented his ideal of the perfect Germanic family, or even Germany itself and much like Jim Jones, Hitler really honestly thought, that all Germans should die with him. Fighting to the last man, woman and child. Hitler believed that the German people, had betrayed their destiny and thus did not deserve to survive as a race. Hitler wanted the children there at the end, in much the same way as Jones wanted that child sitting in his lap when he took the cyanide, because the children represented both of their perverted dreams of what might have been.

The opportunities for others to take the children to safety by key individuals such as Albert Speer who specifically asked Magda to consider getting the children to safety and would have taken them personally if asked. Hitler would have approved this just as he allowed Albert Speer to leave the bunker.

Speer was an architect of buildings...Goebbles was an architect of the whole Nazi ideal. They were not in the same strata.

They could have even left with Traudl Junge (if they handn't been killed already) who did manage to escape on her own without being raped.

Boreman and Stumpfegger tryed the same escape plan and got killed. Traudl Junge's escape was far from a sure thing. One should remember, that the whole area was under massive artillery bombardment and the area was being overun, by quarter of a million Russian troops, at the time. Those are not great odds, if your dragging along very young children.

Also keep in mind Magda killed her children AFTER Hitler was dead. At this point her husband could have simply issued a directive to have the children taken to safety. Any number of people would have offered to carry out such a directive.

After Hitler shot himself, I'm not at all sure whether anybody in that bunker, would have given much of a shit adout Goebbles directives anymore, and I think Gobbles suspected this. thats why his suicide, followed Hitlers so closely. Had he waited, it's quite possible that others in the bunker, would have arrested him and turned him over to the Russian's, to bargain for their lives. It's not like he was going to be the new Fuhrer. Goebbles generated propaganda, but I believe he was cynical enough not to believe it....He knew that the phantom divisions on the map were never coming to save them. He belived they were totaly surrounded and that escape was impossible and that this was the end.

What killed her children was Magda herself who stated she didn't want to see her children live in a world without National Socialism (this was related to Albert Speer when he suggested the children be taken to safety) and she probably didn't want to see her children (or anyone) live if she had to die.

I'm not saying she wasn't a stupid nazi brainwashed bitch. I'm just saying I doubt they could have escaped.

Also Himmler was accussed of treason, not because he wasn't at the bunker, but because he initiated peace negotiations and declared himself "in authority" to do so.


See Reference to Hitlers Paranoia Above:
Hitler would have assumed that any of the "inner circle", who left, were either in with Himmler's plot or trying to negotiate on their own. It wasn't like there would be a jury trial to determine if you were guilty of treason or not. Hitler simply decided that your motivations might be impure, and you were up against the wall with a blindfold an hour later
Link Posted: 8/15/2005 9:03:04 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/15/2005 9:06:38 PM EDT by SteyrAUG]

Originally Posted By FN-TPS:
Aug in Black

TPS answers in red

Sure.

All of the opportunties that existed prior to the Goebbels family arriving at the bunker. If Magda and Joseph arrived by themselves Hitler certainly would NOT have ordered their kids found and shot.

We'er not talking about George Bush here, we'er talking about Adolf Hitler. You speak of Hitler as though he were a rational, modern western leader, Not the drug addled, vindictive, paranoid meglamanic, that he was. The slightest hint, that the Goebbles's had sent their children to safety, would have screamed to a paranoid Hitler, that the Gobbles's were plotting their own disloyal escape.

The opportunity to have them escorted to a safe area by the request of Joseph or Magda. Hitler would have approved either request.

I'm not so sure of that. Remenber that cult leader Jim Jones, held one of the children in his lap during the kool-aid drinking. Hitler adored the Goebbles children. To him, they may have represented his ideal of the perfect Germanic family, or even Germany itself and much like Jim Jones, Hitler really honestly thought, that all Germans should die with him. Fighting to the last man, woman and child. Hitler believed that the German people, had betrayed their destiny and thus did not deserve to survive as a race. Hitler wanted the children there at the end, in much the same way as Jones wanted that child sitting in his lap when he took the cyanide, because the children represented both of their perverted dreams of what might have been.

The opportunities for others to take the children to safety by key individuals such as Albert Speer who specifically asked Magda to consider getting the children to safety and would have taken them personally if asked. Hitler would have approved this just as he allowed Albert Speer to leave the bunker.

Speer was an architect of buildings...Goebbles was an architect of the whole Nazi ideal. They were not in the same strata.

They could have even left with Traudl Junge (if they handn't been killed already) who did manage to escape on her own without being raped.

Boreman and Stumpfegger tryed the same escape plan and got killed. Traudl Junge's escape was far from a sure thing. One should remember, that the whole area was under massive artillery bombardment and the area was being overun, by quarter of a million Russian troops, at the time. Those are not great odds, if your dragging along very young children.

Also keep in mind Magda killed her children AFTER Hitler was dead. At this point her husband could have simply issued a directive to have the children taken to safety. Any number of people would have offered to carry out such a directive.

After Hitler shot himself, I'm not at all sure whether anybody in that bunker, would have given much of a shit adout Goebbles directives anymore, and I think Gobbles suspected this. thats why his suicide, followed Hitlers so closely. Had he waited, it's quite possible that others in the bunker, would have arrested him and turned him over to the Russian's, to bargain for their lives. It's not like he was going to be the new Fuhrer. Goebbles generated propaganda, but I believe he was cynical enough not to believe it....He knew that the phantom divisions on the map were never coming to save them. He belived they were totaly surrounded and that escape was impossible and that this was the end.

What killed her children was Magda herself who stated she didn't want to see her children live in a world without National Socialism (this was related to Albert Speer when he suggested the children be taken to safety) and she probably didn't want to see her children (or anyone) live if she had to die.

I'm not saying she wasn't a stupid nazi brainwashed bitch. I'm just saying I doubt they could have escaped.

Also Himmler was accussed of treason, not because he wasn't at the bunker, but because he initiated peace negotiations and declared himself "in authority" to do so.


See Reference to Hitlers Paranoia Above:
Hitler would have assumed that any of the "inner circle", who left, were either in with Himmler's plot or trying to negotiate on their own. It wasn't like there would be a jury trial to determine if you were guilty of treason or not. Hitler simply decided that your motivations might be impure, and you were up against the wall with a blindfold an hour later



All of this is negated by the fact that she killed them AFTER Hitler was dead.

Also SEVERAL people did not present themselves to the bunker...Himmler, Goering, etc. And had they not tried to assume power Hitler would have done NOTHING about them NOT being there. Just like if the Goebbels showed up WITHOUT their kids.

Also Hitler sent a few people away who specifically came to die WITH HIM at the bunker.

Also while it is true Hitler was paranoid and all that I seriously DOUBT he would have demanded the kids stay if ANY of the above made the request. If Magda or Joseph wanted to leave that would have been a different story.
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