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Posted: 1/13/2005 2:54:37 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/13/2005 2:56:36 AM EDT by sonofbp]
IZHMASHAK-100 SERIES: RUSSIAN EXPANSION OF MARKETS

The mere fact of appearance of the AK-100 series is a sure indication that IZHMASH makes a vigorous attempt to regain and expand its International markets. When caliber 5.45 x 39 mm weapons were introduced into mass production to replace the rifles in 7.62 x 39 mm, it was discovered that most of the Russian traditional foreign customers would think twice before placing firm purchase orders. They merely did not trust 5.45 so well as they trusted an old and proven caliber 7.62. In addition 5.45 x 39 mm ammunition was harder to get, while 7.62 x 39 mm was easy to come by. As a result, the volume of exportation shrank considerably. In order to enhance market competitiveness IZHMASH decided to put in line the guns in three calibers: 5.45, 7.62 and 5.56. The Kalashnikovs in 5.56 x 45 mm were created exclusively for export. As a matter of fact, firing the NATO ammunition, AK-101 and AK-102 showed the results noticeably better than 5.45 x 39 mm. First, the case of a 5.56 round is by 6 mm longer and provides propulsion about 20 % greater. Second, quality of cartridge components including propellant, primer and projectile is evidently superior. The geometry of the longer NATO case with least difference between the diameter of the case body and the bullet results in better fire accuracy. Hence, the hit probability as well as the accuracy potential of AK-101 is 22 - 23 % higher than those of the AK74M. Now having the Kalashnikovs in 5.56 x 45 mm IZHMASH seems to be ready to deal with those clients who were traditionally controlled by Western arms suppliers. Anyway, if there is a demand, there must be an offer.

VS


It is similar to what Mr. Kalashnikov has said all along, he hates the ak74.

What say you?
Link Posted: 1/13/2005 2:58:20 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/13/2005 3:00:11 AM EDT by motown_steve]
www.ammo-oracle.com

I like 5.56 and I like 7.62.

I've never had a 5.45
Link Posted: 1/13/2005 3:05:38 AM EDT
.223 good...............5.45 bad
Link Posted: 1/13/2005 3:09:30 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/13/2005 3:10:04 AM EDT by Kharn]
How in the world would you shoot either of those from the prone position?  The magazines are fricken huge.

Kharn
Link Posted: 1/13/2005 3:43:06 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Kharn:
How in the world would you shoot either of those from the prone position?  The magazines are fricken huge.

Kharn



Apparently you have never seen the average AK shooter in action.

There is no prone position involved.

They prefer the "thigh" position.  Whereabout they stop, spread their legs, place the receiver of the rifle against the side of their thigh, blast a multitude of rounds while waving the muzzle side to side, then run away.

For this position, the large magazines work just fine.
Link Posted: 1/13/2005 3:46:11 AM EDT
Link Posted: 1/13/2005 3:46:52 AM EDT

Originally Posted By VA-gunnut:



I was thinking that too, and tagged to read it all later.
Link Posted: 1/13/2005 3:53:48 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/13/2005 4:02:45 AM EDT by MonkeysUncle]
The only viable solution is to get...


One of Each!

Link Posted: 1/13/2005 4:31:37 AM EDT
I would'nt say the 5.45 is a 'bad' cartridge, I have the 7.62 because ammo is available almost everywhere, where as the 5.45 ammo is harder to find 'on the shelf'
Link Posted: 1/13/2005 4:37:00 AM EDT
My SAR2 is a fun little rifle.
Link Posted: 1/13/2005 4:48:01 AM EDT

Originally Posted By sonofbp:

It is similar to what Mr. Kalashnikov has said all along, he hates the ak74.

What say you?


You've really got to watch the translation of these things.  It's not that 5.45 isn't 'Trusted' in the specification sense.  It's that buyers have little faith that it's the right decision in a world awash in 5.56.

Besides, Kalashnikov would dislike the AK in 5.56*45 as well.  His main problem with it remains.
Link Posted: 1/13/2005 5:10:23 AM EDT
I have one in 5.45 and think is shoots great. The wolf ammo actually shoots worse than the ammo I got labeled for some "People's Machinery Plant" in some place I can't pronounce. That stuff shoots straight and is very consistent.
Link Posted: 1/13/2005 5:27:52 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/13/2005 5:35:06 AM EDT by thompsondd]


I got an AK in 7.62x39 as a 'plinker' so I could save my stash of XM193 for my ARs for the zoombie terrorists. Then I got an AK74 because it was supposed to be ballistically superior to the 7.62x39 AK out to 300m.  

Now, I have to get another AK variant in 5.56x45 because it is 'better' than the 5.45x39, which replaced the 7.62x39, that I bought originally to offset the 5.56x45.

Now I have stashes of 5.56.x45, 5.45x39, and 7.62x39.

Oh, and they ALL shoot great.





Link Posted: 1/13/2005 5:31:24 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Cypher214:

Originally Posted By Kharn:
How in the world would you shoot either of those from the prone position?  The magazines are fricken huge.

Kharn



Apparently you have never seen the average AK shooter in action.

There is no prone position involved.

They prefer the "thigh" position.  Whereabout they stop, spread their legs, place the receiver of the rifle against the side of their thigh, blast a multitude of rounds while waving the muzzle side to side, then run away.

For this position, the large magazines work just fine.


Nah just use a drum and rest it on the ground.
Link Posted: 1/13/2005 5:33:51 AM EDT

Originally Posted By DriftPunch:

Originally Posted By sonofbp:

It is similar to what Mr. Kalashnikov has said all along, he hates the ak74.

What say you?


You've really got to watch the translation of these things.  It's not that 5.45 isn't 'Trusted' in the specification sense.  It's that buyers have little faith that it's the right decision in a world awash in 5.56.

Besides, Kalashnikov would dislike the AK in 5.56*45 as well.  His main problem with it remains.


Translation?
I quoted the site!
I simply stated that Mr. K dislikes the 74 also.
Link Posted: 1/13/2005 5:34:56 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/13/2005 5:40:46 AM EDT by sonofbp]

Originally Posted By thompsondd:


I got an AK in 7.62x39 as a 'plinker' so I could save my stash of XM193 for my ARs for the zoombie terrorists. Then I got an AK74 because it was supposed to be ballistically superior to the 7.62x39 AK out to 300m.  

Now, I have to get another AK variant in 5.56x45 because it is 'better' than the 5.45x39, which replaced the 7.62x39, that I bought originally to offset the 5.56x45.

Oh, and they ALL shoot great.







I could not agree more with everything you said.
Whatever it was.j/k
Edit to add that:
A friend has a post dealer sample of one of these in 5.45.
It shoots like a dream with that break.
So controlable compared to the 7.62X39.
But have you shot a 7.62x51 in auto?
It will push you around a bit.
Which gives me great faith in what it does to the poor bastard on the recieving end.
Link Posted: 1/13/2005 5:36:10 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/13/2005 5:40:18 AM EDT by thompsondd]

Originally Posted By sonofbp:

Originally Posted By thompsondd:


I got an AK in 7.62x39 as a 'plinker' so I could save my stash of XM193 for my ARs for the zoombie terrorists. Then I got an AK74 because it was supposed to be ballistically superior to the 7.62x39 AK out to 300m.  

Now, it sounds like I need to get another AK variant in 5.56x45 because it is 'better' than the 5.45x39, which replaced the 7.62x39, that I bought originally to offset the 5.56x45?????

Oh, and they ALL shoot great.




I could not agree more with everything you said.
Whatever it was.j/k



Basically, I was saying I got an AK47 as a plinker to offset my AR as mil-spec ammo started to get harder to find.  Then, I got an AK74 because it was supposed to be better than the AK47. Now it sounds like I need to get another one in 5.56x45 which is the same ammo I was trying to scale back from shooting in the first place.

If I want to shoot 5.56x45, I'll stick to my AR. If I want to shoot an "AK", it will be in a traditonal East Bloc caliber. Otherwise, it would be like dropping a 350 V8 into a foriegn car. What's the point?
Link Posted: 1/13/2005 5:39:01 AM EDT

Originally Posted By DPeacher:
My SAR2 is a fun little rifle.



+1
Link Posted: 1/13/2005 5:40:09 AM EDT
So,for the clueless (me) what WAS Kalashnikov's problem with th ak74?  Please educate...
Link Posted: 1/13/2005 5:42:58 AM EDT
Link Posted: 1/13/2005 5:44:48 AM EDT

it would be like dropping a 350 V8 into a foriegn car. What's the point?


You sir offend me.
So your saying the 350-z with the 350 kit is no fun?
What about the 350 in a land-rover by toyota?
Didnt the british place a ford 260 into the mg as a special offering way back when?
Not starting shit just immitating the calibur vs. calibur argument you usually see.
Link Posted: 1/13/2005 5:50:05 AM EDT
Please God ......make it stop.
Link Posted: 1/13/2005 6:03:12 AM EDT
I have no dogs in this race. I just like saying the word Izhmash.

Izhmash Izhmash Izhmash.
Link Posted: 1/13/2005 6:10:47 AM EDT
still waiting to find out what Kalashnikovs complaint was...?  anybody?
Link Posted: 1/13/2005 6:14:06 AM EDT

Originally Posted By redpine:
still waiting to find out what Kalashnikovs complaint was...?  anybody?



He thinks it's a small, wimpy round.
Link Posted: 1/13/2005 6:20:11 AM EDT

Originally Posted By redpine:
still waiting to find out what Kalashnikovs complaint was...?  anybody?


I have been googling kalashnikov opinion ak74 and can not find anything!
I have a book at home where he goes into detail on why he thinks "they" FUBARed "his" rifle.
I'll attempt to find it on Amazon and get an excerpt.
Link Posted: 1/13/2005 6:38:10 AM EDT
I have had some down time so I have been reading "Kalashnikov the arms and the man".

It has a section on the 100 series AK's where they compair the AK-101 and AK-102 to the M-16.

Well they state that the New AK preformed better overall than the M-16. Except in standing position, shooting in semi-auto mode, this is where the M-16 squeeked ahead.

I would love to see a civilian release of this. Best of both worlds.
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