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10/30/2020 2:42:12 PM
Posted: 12/25/2003 4:12:56 AM EST
Doggonit, I swear every single toy that's made today is manufactured in Communist China.

What the heck are we doing, people?
Link Posted: 12/25/2003 4:15:50 AM EST
If the toys were made in the USA that $15 toy would cost you $50. The people in this country voted for cheap; with their credit cards.
Link Posted: 12/25/2003 4:19:00 AM EST
Originally Posted By Oslow:
If the toys were made in the USA that $15 toy would cost you $50. The people in this country voted for cheap; with their credit cards.
View Quote


ACtually the people voted to send their own jobs over seas with their Union Dues

Sgtar15
Link Posted: 12/25/2003 4:24:48 AM EST
Red Ryder made in Ark! But you could shoot your eye out!


Bob [:D]
Link Posted: 12/25/2003 4:32:48 AM EST
Originally Posted By Oslow:
If the toys were made in the USA that $15 toy would cost you $50. The people in this country voted for cheap; with their credit cards.
View Quote



Why does everyone think this way? A $15 toy made in the USA will still be a $15 toy if made in China! If made in China the Co. will make $10 per toy. If made in the USA the Co. will make $5 per toy. It's all about profit and has nothing to do with "Let's make something more affordable for consumers". If you think a corporation would move a plant 3k miles to save YOU $5 you are nuts.



Samuel
Link Posted: 12/25/2003 4:34:49 AM EST
Originally Posted By sgtar15:
ACtually the people voted to send their own jobs over seas with their Union Dues

Sgtar15
View Quote


That's true. That and various and assorted government regulations caused manufacturers to look for alternatives. Now no one in this country can compete.



Link Posted: 12/25/2003 4:37:49 AM EST
Originally Posted By Oslow:
Originally Posted By sgtar15:
ACtually the people voted to send their own jobs over seas with their Union Dues

Sgtar15
View Quote


That's true. That and various and assorted government regulations caused manufacturers to look for alternatives. Now no one in this country can compete.
View Quote
Where were you when mattja was stomping my ass over this very topic? [BD]
Link Posted: 12/25/2003 4:39:21 AM EST
Originally Posted By Oslow:
Originally Posted By sgtar15:
ACtually the people voted to send their own jobs over seas with their Union Dues

Sgtar15
View Quote


That's true. That and various and assorted government regulations caused manufacturers to look for alternatives. Now no one in this country can compete.
View Quote


Disagree. Actually its the union guys who are diehard buy American types (and can afford it too! [;)]).

Its the rest of the jealous ones who buy all that cheap ass import trash (including autos tyvm!)

Again, and they wonder why their kids cant get $30/hr jobs...Keep sending your money to China, Japan, etc...
Link Posted: 12/25/2003 4:40:04 AM EST
If you sold toys for a LIVING would, which situation would you like to be in buy toys for $5 and sell for $15, or buy the same exact toy for 50¢ and seell for $15? There you have it, you answered your own question. I think some of the Fisher-Price toys are still made in the USA though.

But, that don't mean like it, just the way mfg'r their rationale.
Link Posted: 12/25/2003 4:45:30 AM EST
Originally Posted By Samuel:
Why does everyone think this way? A $15 toy made in the USA will still be a $15 toy if made in China! If made in China the Co. will make $10 per toy. If made in the USA the Co. will make $5 per toy. It's all about profit and has nothing to do with "Let's make something more affordable for consumers". If you think a corporation would move a plant 3k miles to save YOU $5 you are nuts.
Samuel
View Quote


No, I'm saying that if there was a law that everything sold in the US had to be made in the US, the toy you just bought for $15 would have cost you $50.

I'm also saying that most people in the US would rather pay $15 than $50 for the same toy.

No, I'm not nuts. I actually tried for a time (years ago) to buy goods made in the USA. But most consumer goods are made elsewhere these days so that is just the way it is going to be.


Link Posted: 12/25/2003 4:54:19 AM EST
Originally Posted By DoubleFeed:

Where were you when mattja was stomping my ass over this very topic? [BD]
View Quote


Living in Illinois, I have seen what overly aggressive unions and commy-thinking public officials can do to private enterprise. I cannot explain why these people want to destroy their source of income, both public and private; it makes no sense to me.

As for arguing about it, that usually takes more effort and time than I am willing to waste.
I'm getting really lazy as I get older.
Link Posted: 12/25/2003 4:58:06 AM EST
Why does everyone think this way? A $15 toy made in the USA will still be a $15 toy if made in China! If made in China the Co. will make $10 per toy. If made in the USA the Co. will make $5 per toy. It's all about profit and has nothing to do with "Let's make something more affordable for consumers". If you think a corporation would move a plant 3k miles to save YOU $5 you are nuts.
Samuel
View Quote
You are correct, but you miss a detail.
Personnel costs.
The toys cost the same, buy the workers building the toys in the US get paid a whole lot more money than Chinese workers.  The cost of paying the workers is what makes the difference.
Companies looked at all the areas where they could lower costs.  Personnel costs were the last item they could find to cut back.  Moving the manufacturing to China came after they could not find anywhere else to trim costs.  Naturally, this does not apply in cases of actual exorbitant greed, where what happened in reality does not match what I stated above.

In any case, I consider the fact that our manufacturing base is moving to China nothing other than a screaming General Quarters horn.  Something is extremely wrong with the American business environment when companies move out of the States just so they can stay solvent.  It needs to receive priority attention, but it is not.
The question: What can be changed about the American business environment to make it more business friendly?
Chocking it all up to greed of evil CEOs is a  little too much of an easy way out from under the question.
Link Posted: 12/25/2003 4:59:54 AM EST
My AR's, M1A, M1, M1903, 1911A1 were all made here in America ... oh [i]those[/i] kind of toys [:)] never mind.
Link Posted: 12/25/2003 5:08:23 AM EST
Originally Posted By CavVet:
Disagree. Actually its the union guys who are diehard buy American types (and can afford it too! [;)]).

Its the rest of the jealous ones who buy all that cheap ass import trash (including autos tyvm!)

View Quote


Ah, but there will be fewer and fewer of the well paid union jobs and less and less "Made In the USA" stuff to buy.

This is not about union bashing, there are a lot of factors at work; but instead of addressing the problems the labor people point fingers at the "greedy companies" and the "big business politicians".

Again, I don't pretend to understand it. If you shoot yourself in the foot, shooting yourself in the other foot is not going to even things out.  
Link Posted: 12/25/2003 5:09:06 AM EST
This country makes no longer makes ANYTHING.  That includes rags.  I picked up a package of shop rags at Home Depot and each one had a "Made in Pakistan" label on it.  Sad.  [:(]
Link Posted: 12/25/2003 5:10:01 AM EST
AH HA! Then that explains the 'Wire Ties'....... Conspiracy by the Chinese to have our kids drive us crazy on Christmas morning and birthdays by welding toys to the packages with these stupid wire ties…. Knowing our kids are impatient and wanting to play with the toy as soon as the wrapper comes off!
Link Posted: 12/25/2003 5:19:08 AM EST
Originally Posted By Paul:
My AR's, M1A, M1, M1903, 1911A1 were all made here in America ... oh [i]those[/i] kind of toys [:)] never mind.
View Quote


Good point. I hope none of the "buy USA" people have any of those COMMIE guns.
Link Posted: 12/25/2003 5:19:59 AM EST
Let's not forget corprate greed either,Unions aren't the only reason they moved to China. .25cents an hour, and prison (free) labor are some of the better reasons to go there, If Wong-Ling and his friends start bitching about wages, all you gotta do is call down to Peking...and soon, Wong and his friends will dissapear....Bottom line is no matter what side of the argument you're on, we're all to blame...We want things cheap and right now! Ok, we're getting them, China is on it's way to being a industrial giant, and we're still kidding ourselves that a service-based economy works....it doesn't,Everyday those people over there are learning how to make things, and over time will get better at it. We'll buy them, and at the same time help fund a country that is still run by Commies, that want to destroy our way of life. That, is the bottom line..... I don't have the answer to this problem as it is complex, Management blames labor, Labor blames management the company moves to China for cheap labor and eventully, they all lose...As the company finds Chinese management as replacements too,...who also work cheap.... I try to buy as little chinese stuff as possiable but it's getting harder every day,I just wonder how long it'll be before Ford, GM, starts making cars there and selling them to us...for a nice tidy profit....You can explain the problem to death, blame labor, management, whatever,the fact still stands, we, as a country are in deep shit, and we're still showing our enemys how to make swords, and the day will come when they'll try to use them on us......and that day will come soon.....  
Link Posted: 12/25/2003 5:24:29 AM EST
Originally Posted By 1911Shootist:
This country makes no longer makes ANYTHING.  That includes rags.  I picked up a package of shop rags at Home Depot and each one had a "Made in Pakistan" label on it.  Sad.  [:(]
View Quote


Good grief! I have about quit looking to see where stuff is made. But if they are shipping in rags there isn't much left to save.
Link Posted: 12/25/2003 5:29:16 AM EST
Originally Posted By DoubleFeed:
Why does everyone think this way? A $15 toy made in the USA will still be a $15 toy if made in China! If made in China the Co. will make $10 per toy. If made in the USA the Co. will make $5 per toy. It's all about profit and has nothing to do with "Let's make something more affordable for consumers". If you think a corporation would move a plant 3k miles to save YOU $5 you are nuts.
Samuel
View Quote
You are correct, but you miss a detail.
Personnel costs.
The toys cost the same, buy the workers building the toys in the US get paid a whole lot more money than Chinese workers.  The cost of paying the workers is what makes the difference.
Companies looked at all the areas where they could lower costs.  Personnel costs were the last item they could find to cut back.  Moving the manufacturing to China came after they could not find anywhere else to trim costs.  Naturally, this does not apply in cases of actual exorbitant greed, where what happened in reality does not match what I stated above.

In any case, I consider the fact that our manufacturing base is moving to China nothing other than a screaming General Quarters horn.  Something is extremely wrong with the American business environment when companies move out of the States just so they can stay solvent.  It needs to receive priority attention, but it is not.
The question: What can be changed about the American business environment to make it more business friendly?
Chocking it all up to greed of evil CEOs is a  little too much of an easy way out from under the question.
View Quote



Personnel costs, have very very little to do with it. That is what the big companies what you to think. The benefits to moving are insurance, taxation, environmental issues/regulation, power, location/plant operating cost, material cost, and the list goes on. The Feds and local Gov. have dug us all a big hole and we will ALL fall in it sooner or later. The ones who won't fall in will be the big money guy's who could care less about the common folk. They will be our masters.
No way out. The economy would drop like a rock if something were done about overseas trade. And if something were to be done here to help, the sheeple would vote against it even if we were allowed to vote on the subject.
The big CEO's and the people in power are best buddies from Yale/Harvard and such. Do a search for "Skulls and Bones Society". Both Sr. and Jr. Bush are there, and Clinton just to start. The majority of the ones who call the shots are/were members of this secret society and have admitted to it. Everyone in this club has been elected or positioned into places of power. They are the reason.


Oslow,
Sorry for being nuts myself. I did not mean for it to come out that way.


Samuel
Link Posted: 12/25/2003 5:45:05 AM EST
Yes:

[img]http://photos.ar15.com/ImageGallery/Attachments/DownloadAttach.asp?iImageUnq=10315[/img]
Link Posted: 12/25/2003 5:48:38 AM EST
Originally Posted By CavVet:
Originally Posted By Oslow:
Originally Posted By sgtar15:
ACtually the people voted to send their own jobs over seas with their Union Dues

Sgtar15
View Quote


That's true. That and various and assorted government regulations caused manufacturers to look for alternatives. Now no one in this country can compete.
View Quote


Disagree. Actually its the union guys who are diehard buy American types (and can afford it too! [;)]).

Its the rest of the jealous ones who buy all that cheap ass import trash (including autos tyvm!)

Again, and they wonder why their kids cant get $30/hr jobs...Keep sending your money to China, Japan, etc...
View Quote


BS.

In the electricians union, ALL of the stuff we use (boxes, wire ties, shot guns and so on) are all made overseas, mostly in China.


Link Posted: 12/25/2003 5:55:33 AM EST
[Last Edit: 12/25/2003 5:56:36 AM EST by Oslow]
[b]Personnel costs, have very very little to do with it. [/b]

Social Security, Medicare, Health Insurance, Unemployment insurance, discrimination or retribution law suits if someone is fired, strikes, threatened strikes, work slowdowns, equipment sabotage, shakedowns by Jesse Jackson, etc.

The little things add up to big money and big frustration.
 
Link Posted: 12/25/2003 6:03:00 AM EST
[Last Edit: 12/25/2003 6:06:08 AM EST by Samuel]
To anyone who might be interested. This will really make you wonder. Believe it or not.

[url]http://www.parascope.com/articles/0997/skullbones.htm[url/]

Samuel
Link Posted: 12/25/2003 6:04:00 AM EST
Originally Posted By Balzac72:
Yes:
View Quote


The Armalite rifle (and ammo) I bought for my son is most likely the only thing under the tree that was made in the USA. I don't really know, it is kind of a non-issue these days.
Link Posted: 12/25/2003 6:14:45 AM EST
Originally Posted By DoubleFeed:
Why does everyone think this way? A $15 toy made in the USA will still be a $15 toy if made in China! If made in China the Co. will make $10 per toy. If made in the USA the Co. will make $5 per toy. It's all about profit and has nothing to do with "Let's make something more affordable for consumers". If you think a corporation would move a plant 3k miles to save YOU $5 you are nuts.
Samuel
View Quote
You are correct, but you miss a detail.
Personnel costs.
The toys cost the same, buy the workers building the toys in the US get paid a whole lot more money than Chinese workers.  The cost of paying the workers is what makes the difference.
Companies looked at all the areas where they could lower costs.  Personnel costs were the last item they could find to cut back.  Moving the manufacturing to China came after they could not find anywhere else to trim costs.  Naturally, this does not apply in cases of actual exorbitant greed, where what happened in reality does not match what I stated above.

In any case, I consider the fact that our manufacturing base is moving to China nothing other than a screaming General Quarters horn.  Something is extremely wrong with the American business environment when companies move out of the States just so they can stay solvent.  It needs to receive priority attention, but it is not.
The question: What can be changed about the American business environment to make it more business friendly?
Chocking it all up to greed of evil CEOs is a  little too much of an easy way out from under the question.
View Quote


Perfect response.  

Cav Vet, I have to disagree with you.  No matter what the product you make, there is a limit to what you can charge and still be able to sell it.  That sets your profit margin.  Unions pushing for $30 an hour for someone to sweep floors and going on strike all the time because they have it so rough destroys that profit margin.  If you don't like the job or the company, go some place else.  Do not hold a business hostage or that business will find some where else to do their business.  So, you can keep your union and keep driving prices up to where the product will not sell any more and unionize yourself right out of a job.  If the business can't make a profit, there is no reason to stay in business.  
Link Posted: 12/25/2003 8:27:17 AM EST
Originally Posted By Samuel:
Originally Posted By DoubleFeed:
Why does everyone think this way? A $15 toy made in the USA will still be a $15 toy if made in China! If made in China the Co. will make $10 per toy. If made in the USA the Co. will make $5 per toy. It's all about profit and has nothing to do with "Let's make something more affordable for consumers". If you think a corporation would move a plant 3k miles to save YOU $5 you are nuts.
Samuel
View Quote
You are correct, but you miss a detail.
Personnel costs.
The toys cost the same, buy the workers building the toys in the US get paid a whole lot more money than Chinese workers.  The cost of paying the workers is what makes the difference.
Companies looked at all the areas where they could lower costs.  Personnel costs were the last item they could find to cut back.  Moving the manufacturing to China came after they could not find anywhere else to trim costs.  Naturally, this does not apply in cases of actual exorbitant greed, where what happened in reality does not match what I stated above.

In any case, I consider the fact that our manufacturing base is moving to China nothing other than a screaming General Quarters horn.  Something is extremely wrong with the American business environment when companies move out of the States just so they can stay solvent.  It needs to receive priority attention, but it is not.
The question: What can be changed about the American business environment to make it more business friendly?
Chocking it all up to greed of evil CEOs is a  little too much of an easy way out from under the question.
View Quote



Personnel costs, have very very little to do with it. That is what the big companies what you to think. The benefits to moving are insurance, taxation, environmental issues/regulation, power, location/plant operating cost, material cost, and the list goes on. The Feds and local Gov. have dug us all a big hole and we will ALL fall in it sooner or later. The ones who won't fall in will be the big money guy's who could care less about the common folk. They will be our masters.
No way out. The economy would drop like a rock if something were done about overseas trade. And if something were to be done here to help, the sheeple would vote against it even if we were allowed to vote on the subject.
The big CEO's and the people in power are best buddies from Yale/Harvard and such. Do a search for "Skulls and Bones Society". Both Sr. and Jr. Bush are there, and Clinton just to start. The majority of the ones who call the shots are/were members of this secret society and have admitted to it. Everyone in this club has been elected or positioned into places of power. They are the reason.


Oslow,
Sorry for being nuts myself. I did not mean for it to come out that way.


Samuel
View Quote


DING-DING-DING!!!! We have a WINNER!!![:D]
Link Posted: 12/25/2003 10:54:26 AM EST
Originally Posted By DoubleFeed:
Originally Posted By Oslow:
Originally Posted By sgtar15:
ACtually the people voted to send their own jobs over seas with their Union Dues

Sgtar15
View Quote


That's true. That and various and assorted government regulations caused manufacturers to look for alternatives. Now no one in this country can compete.
View Quote
Where were you when mattja was stomping my ass over this very topic? [BD]
View Quote


This is the second time you've mentioned my name in a post. I certainly must have made an impression on you. I know, we tend not to forget the most painful lessons. [:D]

In any case, it's all about profit. Always was, always will be. Before China, it was Japan and Mexico.

Link Posted: 12/25/2003 11:07:03 AM EST
Originally Posted By Oslow:
[b]Personnel costs, have very very little to do with it. [/b]

Social Security, Medicare, Health Insurance, Unemployment insurance, discrimination or retribution law suits if someone is fired, strikes, threatened strikes, work slowdowns, equipment sabotage, shakedowns by Jesse Jackson, etc.

The little things add up to big money and big frustration.
 
View Quote


This is the price we pay to be part of a modern, civilized society. The other option is something along the lines of China. Eventually, the Chinese will insist on the same standard of living we have (like the Japanese eventually did), and the toy companies will move to India.

In the mean time, the American toy industry will die.
Link Posted: 12/25/2003 11:44:30 AM EST
Let's not forget the gubment's role in this.  By keeping the cost of goods down, they can squeeze us for more and more taxes.

90% of Americans have absolutely no idea how much in tax we really pay, but they don't much care as long as they can buy cheap junk at Wally World.

Since WW keeps prices low, the gov't can take more and more in income, FICA, gas, sales, property, excise, franchise and other taxes.

Unless you are dirt poor and all your expenses are paid by the welfare system, you are paying somewhere between 40-60% of your total income in tax.  Most people won't believe this.  If you don't, add it up:
1.  What did you pay in state/fed income tax this year?
2.  Property taxes - house, cars, boats, etc
3.  Gas tax - about 45 cents/gallon here, your state will vary
4.  Sales tax - 3-8.5% depending on your state, on nearly everything you buy
5.  Excise tax on guns/ammo/fishing/archery gear 11-20%
6.  Alcohol excise tax
7.  Cigarette taxes
8.  Payroll taxes (FICA)
9.  Goods cost 5-25% more than they should because corporate income taxes are passed through to you
10.  SEC transaction fee when you sell stocks
11. Use tax if you try to buy stuff out of state and avoid sales tax
12. If you are an employer, don't forget about unemployment tax (Fed & state), workers comp, matching FICA
13.  Taxes on utilities - water, gas, electricity, phone
14.  Cell phone taxes (mine average about 10%)

That's just what I can think of at the moment. There are more obscure taxes out there too.
Link Posted: 12/25/2003 12:04:17 PM EST
W88 warheads!  Oh. nevermind they make them now too[rolleyes]
Link Posted: 12/25/2003 2:02:14 PM EST
Originally Posted By mattja:
Originally Posted By Oslow:
[b]Personnel costs, have very very little to do with it. [/b]

Social Security, Medicare, Health Insurance, Unemployment insurance, discrimination or retribution law suits if someone is fired, strikes, threatened strikes, work slowdowns, equipment sabotage, shakedowns by Jesse Jackson, etc.

The little things add up to big money and big frustration.
 
View Quote


This is the price we pay to be part of a modern, civilized society. The other option is something along the lines of China. Eventually, the Chinese will insist on the same standard of living we have (like the Japanese eventually did), and the toy companies will move to India.

In the mean time, the American toy industry will die.
View Quote


My brother in-law sells promotional items for Disney and Universal among others. He used to do a lot of business in Hong Kong but found out contacts in Hong Kong were not producing the product but rather buying it in Mainland China. He bypassed Hong Kong and saves 60% by dealing with sources directly in mainland China.
Link Posted: 12/25/2003 2:16:41 PM EST
Originally Posted By Atencio:
Originally Posted By mattja:
Originally Posted By Oslow:
[b]Personnel costs, have very very little to do with it. [/b]

Social Security, Medicare, Health Insurance, Unemployment insurance, discrimination or retribution law suits if someone is fired, strikes, threatened strikes, work slowdowns, equipment sabotage, shakedowns by Jesse Jackson, etc.

The little things add up to big money and big frustration.
 
View Quote


This is the price we pay to be part of a modern, civilized society. The other option is something along the lines of China. Eventually, the Chinese will insist on the same standard of living we have (like the Japanese eventually did), and the toy companies will move to India.

In the mean time, the American toy industry will die.
View Quote


My brother in-law sells promotional items for Disney and Universal among others. He used to do a lot of business in Hong Kong but found out contacts in Hong Kong were not producing the product but rather buying it in Mainland China. He bypassed Hong Kong and saves 60% by dealing with sources directly in mainland China.
View Quote


No doubt. Up until the early 90's, a lot of toys were made in Hong Kong sweatshops using illegal Chinese labor. Now, the vast majority are made in China. There are something like 10,000 toy factories in China. However, the golden age of cheap toys may end. The International Council of Toy Industries is making waves in China, so if Chinese toy manufactures are forced to adopt modern worker safety and environmental regulations, Wally World could be in trouble.

[url]www.giftsandhome.globalsources.com/am/article_id/9000000047162/page/showarticle?action=GetArticle[/url]
[url]news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/programmes/from_our_own_correspondent/2139401.stm[/url]
Link Posted: 12/25/2003 3:19:47 PM EST
Hey, those skinnies in Bangladesh make nice shirts.
Link Posted: 12/25/2003 3:49:56 PM EST
Originally Posted By Dru:
AH HA! Then that explains the 'Wire Ties'. Conspiracy by the Chinese to have our kids drive us crazy on Christmas morning and birthdays by welding toys to the packages with these stupid wire ties.
View Quote


Holy crap... you hit [b]that[/b] nail on the head.  

Some of these toys I could have built in the time it took to separate them from their packaging!

DrMark
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