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Posted: 1/11/2005 3:56:27 PM EDT
So,
2018 is when inflows and outflows will pass like two ships in the night.

How bout in 2015 the age for receiving SS becomes 72 and the cap is raised today, from $85,000 to 200,000. ?

Wouldn't something this simple (or a thousand other simple adjustments ) address the "broken" fund?

Link Posted: 1/11/2005 3:59:32 PM EDT
How about the government get the hell out of the ponzi sceme business.

If it's illegal to sell insurance that way, why should uncle sugar get to take my money for 40 years and give it back at 1%?  
Link Posted: 1/11/2005 4:01:51 PM EDT

Originally Posted By CITADELGRAD87:
How about the government get the hell out of the ponzi sceme business.

If it's illegal to sell insurance that way, why should uncle sugar get to take my money for 40 years and give it back at 1%?  



Yea
there's that too.
What would the exit strategy be.
I'd give up all I put in for the program to end.

But back to reality.......
Link Posted: 1/11/2005 4:03:32 PM EDT
It should be abolished, too bad no one has the balls.
Link Posted: 1/11/2005 4:06:10 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/11/2005 4:07:35 PM EDT by XGunBunny]
How about for anyone under the age of 35 the program would go away completely.  Let me use my money to invest to take care of my own future.  I would even agree to continue to pay 2% until the last of the social security recipients die off.

Why should we be forced to pay into a welfare system that is illegal?  The Social Security program is one of many programs that the Gov came up with to make people dependent upon Big Brother.  Think of all the money paid into the SS program over the years and then take that total and invest it dollar for dollar into the stock market over the same number of years.  The difference would be astronomical.

let it be said again, "Let ME decide what I want to do with MY money!!!  

edited to change the percentage I would agree to continue to pay.
Link Posted: 1/11/2005 4:10:15 PM EDT

Originally Posted By CITADELGRAD87:
How about the government get the hell out of the ponzi sceme business.

If it's illegal to sell insurance that way, why should uncle sugar get to take my money for 40 years and give it back at 1%?  



And the lottery.  WTF are we trying to teach kids anyway?  Next thing you know they'll be state run brothels..

Link Posted: 1/11/2005 4:10:38 PM EDT
Im screwed no matter what happens.


When I get old, Im going out in a blaze of glory.


( Or, gasp, supporting myself from savings... is that even possible?)
Link Posted: 1/11/2005 4:13:33 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/11/2005 4:15:55 PM EDT by flashbat]

Originally Posted By bgcc11:
So,
2018 is when inflows and outflows will pass like two ships in the night.

How bout in 2015 the age for receiving SS becomes 72 and the cap is raised today, from $85,000 to 200,000. ?

Wouldn't something this simple (or a thousand other simple adjustments ) address the "broken" fund?




You don't like the plan to borrow a trillion dollars for the conversion (to privatization) and  give the money to stockbrokers?    

Put money into your 401K etc, you're gonna need it.
Link Posted: 1/11/2005 4:17:02 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/11/2005 4:18:16 PM EDT by Stove_Pipe]

Im screwed no matter what happens.


When I get old, Im going out in a blaze of glory.


( Or, gasp, supporting myself from savings... is that even possible?)



How are you screwed?  Are you unable to plan for your future and need to depend on Socialist Handouts from the government?  If given a chance I would opt out even if it meant I lose everything I have paid so far..
Link Posted: 1/11/2005 4:24:12 PM EDT

Originally Posted By flashbat:

Originally Posted By bgcc11:
So,
2018 is when inflows and outflows will pass like two ships in the night.

How bout in 2015 the age for receiving SS becomes 72 and the cap is raised today, from $85,000 to 200,000. ?

Wouldn't something this simple (or a thousand other simple adjustments ) address the "broken" fund?




You don't like the plan to borrow a trillion dollars for the conversion (to privatization) and  give the money to stockbrokers?    

.



The only thing I like about that plan is that in the next 15 years half the population will be cashin in their 401Ks, etc.
The massive oversupply of equities combined with foreign investorsbailing is gonna be devastating.
So
Looking forward
Dubya's crew seems to have come upwith a way to save the U.S. stock market (not a capitalism based way; but... )
Link Posted: 1/11/2005 4:28:14 PM EDT

Originally Posted By bgcc11:

Originally Posted By flashbat:

Originally Posted By bgcc11:
So,
2018 is when inflows and outflows will pass like two ships in the night.

How bout in 2015 the age for receiving SS becomes 72 and the cap is raised today, from $85,000 to 200,000. ?

Wouldn't something this simple (or a thousand other simple adjustments ) address the "broken" fund?




You don't like the plan to borrow a trillion dollars for the conversion (to privatization) and  give the money to stockbrokers?    

.



The only thing I like about that plan is that in the next 15 years half the population will be cashin in their 401Ks, etc.
The massive oversupply of equities combined with foreign investorsbailing is gonna be devastating.
So
Looking forward
Dubya's crew seems to have come upwith a way to save the U.S. stock market (not a capitalism based way; but... )



You mean it's all a brilliant plan to avoid a market correction?
Link Posted: 1/11/2005 4:35:01 PM EDT

Originally Posted By flashbat:

Originally Posted By bgcc11:

Originally Posted By flashbat:

Originally Posted By bgcc11:
So,
2018 is when inflows and outflows will pass like two ships in the night.

How bout in 2015 the age for receiving SS becomes 72 and the cap is raised today, from $85,000 to 200,000. ?

Wouldn't something this simple (or a thousand other simple adjustments ) address the "broken" fund?




You don't like the plan to borrow a trillion dollars for the conversion (to privatization) and  give the money to stockbrokers?    

.



The only thing I like about that plan is that in the next 15 years half the population will be cashin in their 401Ks, etc.
The massive oversupply of equities combined with foreign investorsbailing is gonna be devastating.
So
Looking forward
Dubya's crew seems to have come upwith a way to save the U.S. stock market (not a capitalism based way; but... )



You mean it's all a brilliant plan to avoid a market correction?


I'm tryin to give Dubya's crew the benifit of the doubt.
Although
Half the population and 65% of the investment population will be cashin in their chips in the next 15 years.
Scary
aint it?
Link Posted: 1/11/2005 4:49:17 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/11/2005 4:50:17 PM EDT by AssaultRifler]

Originally Posted By bgcc11:
How bout in 2015 the age for receiving SS becomes 72 and the cap is raised today, from $85,000 to 200,000. ?



what?!?!?!?!?!?! Screw me out of another 7 years of my involuntary "contributions"?  Would you tell everyone 65 to 71 years old NOW they have to wait another 7 years before they get any SS?  What's the difference?  Stealing 7 years of SS payments is stealing 7 years of payments, just because you say do it 10 years from now doesn't make any difference.  Why don't I come and clean out your bank account in 2015?  If they're going to not pay me for 7 years of SS payments, then they should stop taking "contributions" from my SS for the next 7 years.  Increase the amount of income subject to the Social Security Tax? Fine then increase my benefits too.

Privatization is the ONLY way to go.  It allows politicians from making feel good quick "fixes" like stealing 7 years of your money at the stroke of a pen.  Once it's in your own private account like a 401K the govt or feel gooder quick fixers won't be able to touch it (barring a "wealth tax" or some such other form of theivery).

Surely some jackass will propose "means testing".  Fine.  If you have a high enough income now so you can provide your own retirement accounts via Roth or 401K, then elminate those people from having Social Security taxes taken out of their income too.  Otherwise SS is just a welfare program.  If you want welfare, then raise income taxes and have the balls to call it as such.  The promise of social security since inception is you pay into it and you get stuff out of it, not you pay into it and get fucked when you get old by means testing or raising the age that benefits start to be paid back ever higher and higher.  I already got fucked out of 2 years of beneifts, mine will supposedly start at age 67 not 65.  The govt just sentenced me to be forced to work for 2 years.
Link Posted: 1/11/2005 4:49:34 PM EDT
You know i'd settle for half of what i put in so far, just to keep from putting any more in.
Link Posted: 1/11/2005 4:50:57 PM EDT

Originally Posted By bgcc11:
So,
2018 is when inflows and outflows will pass like two ships in the night.

How bout in 2015 the age for receiving SS becomes 72 and the cap is raised today, from $85,000 to 200,000. ?

Wouldn't something this simple (or a thousand other simple adjustments ) address the "broken" fund?




So you don't want black men to get Social Security, just say so (avg. life expectancey is 68.8 so they'd never get it.)  Avg life expectancy of white males is 75.2 so I guess you're OK with them just gettin' a little.

Every post here needs the age of the poster to evaluate it.  It's difficult to make a ponzi scheme return to something approximating fairness.  The only winners are dead, having gotten more from the system than they put in.  Those that followed will have to settle for less, one way or the other.  Raising the cap is not that bad an idea but it still should strike people as odd that they put any trust in politicians that have already "stolen" them blind.  We need to elect some people that will change this.
Link Posted: 1/11/2005 4:53:16 PM EDT
I would be happy with a exit out plan for those that want out, like me.
Link Posted: 1/11/2005 4:54:46 PM EDT
If in the beginning of Social Security when more people paid than were getting paid, the gov had invested that surplus conservatively, instead of embezzling it, the so called "trust fund" would be flush beyond imagination.  The gov can't leave a dollar unspent however.

Link Posted: 1/11/2005 4:56:04 PM EDT

Originally Posted By bgcc11:

Originally Posted By flashbat:

Originally Posted By bgcc11:

Originally Posted By flashbat:

Originally Posted By bgcc11:
So,
2018 is when inflows and outflows will pass like two ships in the night.

How bout in 2015 the age for receiving SS becomes 72 and the cap is raised today, from $85,000 to 200,000. ?

Wouldn't something this simple (or a thousand other simple adjustments ) address the "broken" fund?




You don't like the plan to borrow a trillion dollars for the conversion (to privatization) and  give the money to stockbrokers?    

.



The only thing I like about that plan is that in the next 15 years half the population will be cashin in their 401Ks, etc.
The massive oversupply of equities combined with foreign investorsbailing is gonna be devastating.
So
Looking forward
Dubya's crew seems to have come upwith a way to save the U.S. stock market (not a capitalism based way; but... )



You mean it's all a brilliant plan to avoid a market correction?


I'm tryin to give Dubya's crew the benifit of the doubt.
Although
Half the population and 65% of the investment population will be cashin in their chips in the next 15 years.
Scary
aint it?



The whole demographic of this is scary as hell.  As a fiscal conservative, the idea of deficit spending to make the conversion is equally scary.  If Japan and China call in their chips on our bonds we're equally screwed.
Link Posted: 1/11/2005 4:58:30 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Captain_Picard:
If in the beginning of Social Security when more people paid than were getting paid, the gov had invested that surplus conservatively, instead of embezzling it, the so called "trust fund" would be flush beyond imagination.  The gov can't leave a dollar unspent however.




Bingo!
Link Posted: 1/11/2005 5:07:02 PM EDT
I'll bet a lot of us here who are under 40 would gladly forgo ALL the $$$ they have put in to SS so far if they could be exempt from contributions to SS from now on...
Link Posted: 1/12/2005 3:41:02 PM EDT

Originally Posted By IamtheNRA:
I'll bet a lot of us here who are under 40 would gladly forgo ALL the $$$ they have put in to SS so far if they could be exempt from contributions to SS from now on...



I'd settle for a complete and total refund no less.  They've would have made 0% interest off me, I won't give up my previous "contributions" without a fight.
Link Posted: 1/12/2005 6:11:53 PM EDT
Just make the system voluntary.

We have know that the system was in acctuarial crisis for at least 30 years.  It is not hard to figure out that it's a Ponzi scheme.  We know birth rates and can predict with a 65 year lead how many people will retire.

GunLvr
Link Posted: 1/12/2005 6:26:36 PM EDT
I'm under 40.

Quit taxing me for no service rendered - if I'd put the money I've had taken for Social Security into my mattress, I would not only have a lumpy mattress, but have a considerably more secure retirement.  I paid quite a bit to get a degree with which to get a job that pays well enough to pay off the degree - that tax would have been very welcome.

What we have foreseen is more money going out than coming in - all that's left to change is how much goes out, and how much goes in.  I say scrap it entirely - I'll take my own choices over nothing.
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