Warning

 

Close

Confirm Action

Are you sure you wish to do this?

Confirm Cancel
Member Login
Site Notices
10/20/2017 1:01:18 AM
9/22/2017 12:11:25 AM
Posted: 9/11/2005 5:57:19 PM EDT
Is it a bmp-capture upgraded or just a merkava-turretless APC ?

Link Posted: 9/11/2005 5:59:50 PM EDT
Definitely not a BMP - not enough road wheels, for starters.
Link Posted: 9/11/2005 6:04:31 PM EDT
Israeli design, forget the name...
Link Posted: 9/11/2005 6:05:38 PM EDT
It starts with an "A" (thats all I can remember). Its an APC built from captured T-55s
Link Posted: 9/11/2005 6:05:43 PM EDT
Converted captured T55 maybe?
Link Posted: 9/11/2005 6:06:18 PM EDT

Originally Posted By chuck1:
Converted captured T55 maybe?



crap I was close - got the Soviet part at least!
Link Posted: 9/11/2005 6:06:53 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/11/2005 6:09:25 PM EDT by chapperjoe]
hot damn you guys are good! Achzarit...




and wow check out that rear hatch!






Link Posted: 9/11/2005 6:08:45 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/11/2005 6:09:06 PM EDT by 1Gunner]
Link Posted: 9/11/2005 6:10:24 PM EDT
Sweeeet!
Link Posted: 9/11/2005 6:15:29 PM EDT
I think I'm in love. I wonder if we'll be able to get them with a C&R if Israel starts surplussing them out.
Link Posted: 9/11/2005 6:16:19 PM EDT
it's not an israeli design. it's an old cheap russian t-55 that's been converted into a robust APC. they were fairly useless as tanks. heavy armor transport was really all they were good for.
Link Posted: 9/11/2005 6:30:31 PM EDT
Link Posted: 9/11/2005 6:33:22 PM EDT
yeah the T-55 roadwheels are super easy to spot.
Link Posted: 9/11/2005 6:58:29 PM EDT
It actually beat the maerkava APC and nakpadon M!13 in a recent trial for more upgrades.... must be a good carrier.
Link Posted: 9/11/2005 7:10:55 PM EDT
Look at the IDF, showing environmental sensitivity by recycling captured enemy tank hulls.
Link Posted: 9/11/2005 7:19:02 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/11/2005 7:19:32 PM EDT by NH_AR_Shooter]

Originally Posted By chapperjoe:
It actually beat the maerkava APC and nakpadon M!13 in a recent trial for more upgrades.... must be a good carrier.



They know the value of a heavy apc in urban fighting. There is (or was) a Merkava based apc planned, the front engine Merk makes a much better apc. It was going to be very pricey, don't know if they went ahead with it.
Link Posted: 9/11/2005 7:27:58 PM EDT
It is an Israeli design based on captured T-55s: at the time the Russians had nothing remotely like it. (Nowadays they have the BTR-T which is a similar concept, taken to the next stage). They also have a similar heavy APC (Nagmasho't) based on the Centurion chassis. Initially it was designed for open field warfare, but has its merits in the cities.

It wasn't so much that it beat the Merkava-based APC in the recent tests, more that they decided that conversions of existing chassis would be cheaper than building from scratch. The theory didn't necessarily pan out, however!

Personally, I can't see why a MerkPC wouldn't be better: You already have the rudiments of the engine at the front and hatch at the back, all you need to do is redistribute the weight of armour given that you no longer have a turret.

NTM
Link Posted: 9/12/2005 10:45:35 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Manic_Moran:
It is an Israeli design based on captured T-55s: at the time the Russians had nothing remotely like it. (Nowadays they have the BTR-T which is a similar concept, taken to the next stage). They also have a similar heavy APC (Nagmasho't) based on the Centurion chassis. Initially it was designed for open field warfare, but has its merits in the cities.

It wasn't so much that it beat the Merkava-based APC in the recent tests, more that they decided that conversions of existing chassis would be cheaper than building from scratch. The theory didn't necessarily pan out, however!

Personally, I can't see why a MerkPC wouldn't be better: You already have the rudiments of the engine at the front and hatch at the back, all you need to do is redistribute the weight of armour given that you no longer have a turret.

NTM



Close. The Israelis and the Russians independently came to about the same design at about the same time.

The Russians were rather perplexed when they lost the bulk of a Motorized Rifle Regiment in Grozny during early fighting in Chechnya. In the after-action, the Russians were very distressed by the fact that the a fairly small number of Chechens armed primarily with RPG variants were able to destroy something in the neighborhood of 100 or BMPs and MTLB support vehicles. The Russians decided that perhaps BMPs, BTRs and MTLBs weren't necessarily good choices for urban fights, and started adapting T55s (which they still have a bunch of, never throwing anything away) as armored vehicles for urban fighting, though the push was to provide something that was proof against many handheld AT rockets (like the RPG). Adapting T55s was relatively cheap and easy, and the Russians were offering some of these converted T55 variants for sale, within a few months, though strictly as a "battlefield taxi" type vehicle, with little in the way of defensive armaments, and entry/egress through top hatches

Israel was encountering similar problems, albeit on a far smaller scale, as their M113 variants were starting to get taken out at an increasing rate. The IDF also being a military that never really throws anything away, they had a fair number of T55s captured from their opponets over the years (I think there are still IDF reserve units pimarily equipped with "Westernized" Soviet hardware; the "T62" in the movie "the Beast" is a good example of those, with its Western matching units and rifled gun) The IDF decided to go a bit further than the Russian concept, and fielded a more thought-out design that actually had a rear access built in, through the narrow channel through the engine compartment on the right side. These have entered limited service for city fighting.

One side note is that the average AFV/APC does not have thick enough armor to support reactive armor, and that is another reason why using an older MBT chasis can be a good thing for founding the basis of an armored vehicle.
Link Posted: 9/12/2005 10:48:59 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/12/2005 10:49:43 AM EDT by raven]
Modified t-72's, converted to APCs. They used them in the assault on Arafat's HQ in Ramallah years ago.

Whoops, wrong Russian tank.
Link Posted: 9/12/2005 8:32:42 PM EDT
The Russians did take it a step further, however, with the BMP-T 'Urban Assault Tank'.

It has no infantry-carrying capability, instead is a T-72 chassis with extra armour, and a casemated turret with autocannons, grenade launchers and FAE missiles.

NTM
Link Posted: 9/13/2005 2:37:03 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Manic_Moran:
The Russians did take it a step further, however, with the BMP-T 'Urban Assault Tank'.

It has no infantry-carrying capability, instead is a T-72 chassis with extra armour, and a casemated turret with autocannons, grenade launchers and FAE missiles Kornet ATGMs.

NTM



fixed it for you
Top Top