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11/22/2017 10:05:29 PM
Posted: 8/23/2004 6:16:44 PM EST
This is a true story. Happened to me over a year ago.
You're gassing up at the Quickie-Mart. You are armed(when it happened I wasn't. Just a Spyderco folder and cell phone)A lot is on your mind. Some Algebra is on your mind cause your on your way to class. You're not really concentrating on your surroundings. It's raining and windy and cool for Kalifornia.

So, you're going through a problem in your head when you sense someone walking up behind you. You turn around quickly and it startles the hood as he is reaching for something in his waistband or pocket(happened too quick to see where he was pulling the gat from). I assume pocket because of the baggy pants.

The gun goes off and he shoots himself in the foot. He doesn't drop the gun. The perp is jumping up and down with pistol in hand but not pointing at you. You have made your way to the front right of your vehicle for CandC. He isn't pointing the gun at you. You can see the perp is struggling to maintain balance due to the injury from you cover.

Do you draw and blast him, or do you remain behind your cover with blaster in hand?

Please note that surveillence cameras were running.

And to add: As I was taking cover I instinctly reached for my right waist where I usually carry a pistol when I am at the range. All I could think of was my Colt Commander sitting at home in the safe.

Never again!
Link Posted: 8/23/2004 6:19:52 PM EST
I think draw and fire is covered by self defence in this situation. Man has pulled gun and fired once already.
Link Posted: 8/23/2004 6:19:53 PM EST
I'd have to shoot if he was swinging his gun in my direction.

How did this end?
Link Posted: 8/23/2004 6:24:11 PM EST
[Last Edit: 8/23/2004 6:25:37 PM EST by guns762]
Gun out, already fired, bad shot=miss? I sure as hell don't wait around for him to finally hit me. It isn't my job to wait there as a victim, for him to get his aim down. I down him. All it takes is one swing in the wrong direction and I'm dead. He already gave up his rights, when he fired his gun, while drawing it on me.
Link Posted: 8/23/2004 6:25:39 PM EST
why wasn't that spyderco in his neck?
Link Posted: 8/23/2004 7:23:17 PM EST
Run like a mo fo. Live to fight another day. But you've satisfied the legal principle of sufficiency of fear in CA. It's pretty clear he has agun and intends to use it, ergo he's shootable.
Link Posted: 8/23/2004 7:26:33 PM EST
Screw cover, draw and advance.
Link Posted: 8/23/2004 7:34:07 PM EST
[Last Edit: 8/23/2004 7:34:59 PM EST by PaDanby]
scew advancing, cover, draw and fire.

Closing the range helps a lousy shot a lot more than it helps a good shot.

And in your case, advancing still means bringing a knife to a gunfight.
Link Posted: 8/23/2004 8:26:18 PM EST
Stay covered if he doesn't drop the weapon. If armed with a weapon yourself shout orders to drop it.

Most likely he will, if not aim at his chest if he raises it one inch blast him.
Link Posted: 8/23/2004 8:30:42 PM EST
legally, IN Texas, you can use Deadly Force to protect yourself, IF; a reasonable person under the same circumstances would not have retreated AND; when and to the degree you reasonably believed it was IMMEDIATELY Necessary to use deadly force to protect yourself from the other use or attempted use of unlawful deadly force. against you.

Being in condition white at any time in pubic is a recipe to die. Glad you are OK.
Link Posted: 8/23/2004 8:31:12 PM EST

Originally Posted By AZ-K9:
Screw cover, draw and advance.



... Perhaps sarcasm? Fuck heroics, ain't getting kill't by some low-life

... +1 one for cover, draw, fire
Link Posted: 8/23/2004 8:33:24 PM EST
shoot him in the hands that way he cant shoot back
Link Posted: 8/23/2004 8:34:05 PM EST
This is a really good reason why you always have to be aware of your surroundings, especially at a gas station. I don't know about you, but discharging a firearm near gas pumps makes me a bit nervous. Gas stations are one of the places where I'm at my most alert, especially if I'm in an area I'm not familiar with.

Remember the Alamo, and God Bless Texas...
Link Posted: 8/23/2004 8:35:41 PM EST
if he has a gun in his hand and has fired a shot already that is a gift.

Fire 3 warning shots in the back of his head
Link Posted: 8/23/2004 8:37:32 PM EST

Originally Posted By peekay:
why wasn't that spyderco in his neck?



Exactly, yeah it isnt a gun but sometimes you have to work with what you got.

On my keychain I have this crappy made in china folding knife, it isnt much but a situation ever arose and I had the opportunity to use it I would most definately stick it in some fleshy part of the bad guy.

Nobody expects a crappy $1.99 knife in thier throat.
Link Posted: 8/23/2004 8:40:51 PM EST

Originally Posted By OFFascist:

Originally Posted By peekay:
why wasn't that spyderco in his neck?



Exactly, yeah it isnt a gun but sometimes you have to work with what you got.

On my keychain I have this crappy made in china folding knife, it isnt much but a situation ever arose and I had the opportunity to use it I would most definately stick it in some fleshy part of the bad guy.

Nobody expects a crappy $1.99 knife in thier throat.



Yer' still bringing a knife to a gunfight. You could also screw up and die. Perp could recover from his screw up and you die. Lots of ways for you to die in this situation.
Link Posted: 8/23/2004 8:45:26 PM EST

Originally Posted By peekay:
why wasn't that spyderco in his neck?


+1

THEN douse him with gasoline with the hose. He fires, he cooks.
Link Posted: 8/23/2004 8:46:31 PM EST
I would keep behind the car while aiming at him. I'd yell for him to drop it or get shot. Then if he did anything shady, take the shot. Otherwise restrain him for the cops. It's cheaper than fending off a wrongful death lawsuit.
Link Posted: 8/23/2004 8:48:44 PM EST
I would have drawn at fired at the sound of the shot. Even if he was momentarily stunned, he can still be less than one second from an aimed shot at me.
Link Posted: 8/23/2004 8:50:30 PM EST

Originally Posted By operatorerror:
Yer' still bringing a knife to a gunfight. You could also screw up and die. Perp could recover from his screw up and you die. Lots of ways for you to die in this situation.

Lame jingoistic crap.
As described, with a knife being all you had, and the opportunity to evade already lost, you seem to be imagining you can outrun a bullet. That's stupid. You have no choice but to take 2 steps and start rapidly punching that blade in and out of his diaphragm while fending off the his gun with your off-hand.
Link Posted: 8/23/2004 8:51:29 PM EST
[Last Edit: 8/23/2004 8:59:13 PM EST by DScott]
Seeing that he was jumping around like that, I'd assume he was on fire. Hard to tell with the baggy clothes, but I think it's a natural conclusion. Regardless, I'd surmise he was in need of a good dowsing with whatever liquid was immediately at hand, like from the gas hose you're holding.

You know, to cool him off.

Once he'd been cooled off sufficiently, I'm sure he would need to relax. We all know alot of people just love to relax with a good smoke. So, I'd thoughtfully give him a cigarette, and help him light it by tossing him the zippo.

Of course, the polite thing to do would be to light the zippo first.

Who says that in today's world the whole idea of a Good Samaritan is dead?



Link Posted: 8/23/2004 10:32:58 PM EST
I vote to smoke him.

You're in Riverside County, correct? What's the CCW situation there?
Link Posted: 8/23/2004 10:52:16 PM EST
If he still has a gun and he's still breathing air...I'd probably blast him. Depending on his proximity and whats at hand, I might also have just popped him in the head with a tire iron or something if I was in your shoes. That said, situational awareness is everything dude. That's going to get you out of a bad situation long before the gun in your hand.

I almost got carjacked a few years back in Memphis. Me and the wife were boxed in at light on a narrow street. Three cars back three young black "thugs" exited their vehicle and headed for the drivers side of our car. I quickly unholstered my weapon and told my wife if she saw me raise my weapon she should close her eyes so as not to be blinded/burned by muzzle flash. As quickly as I'd told her that, I knew that pointing a gun at an armed robber past her face was not an option. I decided the best course of action was to keep the firearm concealed at my side. My assumption was that they would tell me to get out and her to scoot over, so they could have fun with my car and wife. If they let my wife out, I was going to let them have the car. A car is replaceable and my wifes life is not. If they decided to scoot her over, my course would be to "act frightened" and quickly move to the back of the vehicle where I would place a shot to the back of the drivers head and engage his friends as they advanced. Just as the first guy reached the gas tank area of my car the light turned (probably a second or so before) and my wife made haste. I was never more glad to NOT shoot somebody in my life. I'm convinced my plan of action, had the situation progressed into something ugly, would have meant the difference between life and death for either my wife, myself or both of us. My situational awareness of activity several cars back is what gave me those crucial 7 or so seconds to make that plan. ALWAYS be aware of your surroundings.
Link Posted: 8/24/2004 1:27:53 AM EST

Originally Posted By rayra:

Originally Posted By operatorerror:
Yer' still bringing a knife to a gunfight. You could also screw up and die. Perp could recover from his screw up and you die. Lots of ways for you to die in this situation.

Lame jingoistic crap.
As described, with a knife being all you had, and the opportunity to evade already lost, you seem to be imagining you can outrun a bullet. That's stupid. You have no choice but to take 2 steps and start rapidly punching that blade in and out of his diaphragm while fending off the his gun with your off-hand.



Huh? So did T_J stab the perp then? No. And he's alive. What did he do? He didn't shoot him and he didn't stab him.

Do you know the definition of jingoistic?
Link Posted: 8/24/2004 1:31:49 AM EST
I'd run like a scared little bitch into the quickie-mart and hide out until the cops arrived.

Did you leave the keys in the car while you were fueling? I always lock every door but the driver's, then take the keys with me (leaving driver's door open) when I'm at the pump so I can just bolt and they're left with a useless car and someone cant just yank a door handle and get in from the othe side.

Kharn
Link Posted: 8/24/2004 1:41:13 AM EST
I would laugh my ass off at him for shooting himself. Then I would shoot him.
Link Posted: 8/24/2004 1:49:37 AM EST
TX Investigator can correct me on this, but IIRC in Texas, you are justified in shooting not only if you think you are in danger, but if you think others are in danger.

I received my CC permit from a retired DPS firearms instructor. He said that if you suddenly came on a situation in which a reasonable person would conclude that someone else is in mortal danger that you could shoot the guy anywhere you wanted to, including the back, without warning.

I believe we are morally obligated to protect others in this situation. If you see him threaten someone else with his gun, cap him. In Texas, you would be very hard-pressed to find a DA that would recommend indictment. If it went to trial, any good lawyer could get you off, IMHO.
Link Posted: 8/24/2004 2:09:09 AM EST
Answer 3 questions

Does he have intent?

Does he have a weapon?

Is that weapon capable of harming you?

If you line up with 3 yes's...............................
Link Posted: 8/24/2004 2:10:49 AM EST

Originally Posted By Tactical_Jew:
Do you draw and blast him, or do you remain behind your cover with blaster in hand?



Draw and cover. Same principle as would apply to anyone else who is faced with an armed assailant. Although he has a gun, it is not aimed at you. He had the intent to draw it certainly, but him shooting himself has introduced a factor that alters the immediate threat to you. Yes, he still has the gun, but it will be up to you to make the split second decision, if that barrel swings towards you ,to fire or not to fire. You just can't draw and shoot the guy down, as some people have suggested that you are somehow legally entitled to do.
Link Posted: 8/24/2004 4:07:48 AM EST
If I had a gun with me I wouldn't of have fired.

The ground was wet due to the rain. It was very slippery. If I had rushed him with my knife I may of slipped.

I kept my eye on him, but his back was turned to me 75% of the time. There were a bunch of cars behind him on the main street as this was on major corner. if I had missed, because he was moving so much, i might've hit a car behind him. He also moved in and out of range. I could've manuvered(if I had a gun) to get a shot, but I would've lost my cover. At the time I didn't know who else was with him.

The zippo trick would've been cool as the mini-van on the other side of the island took off when the shot was fired with fuel line still attached.

A car screeched into the station and he jumped in with 2 other perps inside. I was able to get the plate number and a clear view of the suspects.

The cavalry showed up a few minutes later.

He finally showed up at the county hospital with a rotting foot.

The bullet had bounced off his shin and entered the top of his foot.

Those who have CCW always percieve in our minds these perfect scenarios where we face off like in the old west with clean shots. It never happens like that. I really hope I never hope to get into another incident as these damn things evolve so quick and you have to think fast or die. But, I am glad I am armed with some wits.

Not that it matters, but the guy was not a minority. Some white guy hanging with a prominent street gang. The Detective told me I was probably his initiation.
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