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Posted: 10/30/2004 4:59:54 AM EST

If you are a hunter, take this as constructive advice. AND do your part in saving our firearms rights!

Yesterday, I got a post card in the mail from the Democratic party here in Michigan. It showed Kerry firing a shot gun on the front and on the back he was in a orange vest carrying a shotgun over his shoulder walking away from the photographer. I thought, how fitting, hunters will vote for him and he'll take away our rights, and walk away with their shotguns. On the back it also said:


John Kerry
Protecting Our Rights, Our Freedom, Our Way of Life

John Kerry Believes In Our Second Amendment Rights

John Kerry is a gun owner and hunter who blieves in our Constitutional right to bear arms. He learned to hunt as a boy and has been a champion of hunting rights in the U.S. Senate. As President, Kerry will stand up and defend common sense on guns.

A Leader In Preserving Land for Hunting and Fishing

In the Senate, Kerry led efforts to protect land and wetlands for hunting and fishing, and supported providing more forest acreage for sporting purposes. Kerry also voted for greater hunting opportunites on federal land. John Kerry understands that hunting is important to people in Michigan - as a sport, as a way of life, and for our economy. Kerry will fight to preserve our right to hunt.

John Kerry for President
A new direction for America




Being outraged, I called the Michigan Democratic party headquarters and laid into them about this. I talked at length with a volunteer who was a hunter. I told him how big of a lie this was and how pissed I was that the Democratic party (remember I work at a union shop, and I told him this) lied in this way and how Kerry supported every anti-gun law that has come up for a vote. The volunteer told me that he was sure Kerry was a hunter and that he wouldn't take away our guns. So I educated him on how Kerry voted to ban ammo, etc. The volunteer said that there is no way he would vote for Kerry if he as such an anti-gunner. I could tell he still didn't trust me, so I told him to check his voting record on gun legislation and to check his comments on the NRA website and what he said on the congressional record. I also told him, if you vote for him, you WILL LOSE your second amendment rights and do yourself a favor and check out the facts. My last comment was to say, I don't appreciate the MI democratic party lying like this and I want them to stop telling people Kerry is a hunter and will protect our firearms rights. He said, he'd relay my comments. I'm going down there on Monday and doing the same thing in person.

Hunters! don't know, won't check facts and believe the crap put out by the media and the lies from the Democratic party. So if you are a hunter, TELL your friends the truth. If you are not and know a hunter, TELL THEM THE TRUTH! If we don't, say good by to firearm rights!

Link Posted: 10/30/2004 5:02:22 AM EST
Link Posted: 10/30/2004 5:03:07 AM EST
yep, hunters and all the other "elitist" shooting disipline's... they're the ones with their heads burried in the sand..

sad..

the NRA needs to overhaul things and just be blunt and to the point with EVERYONE, that the anti's will stop at nothing to disarm EVERYONE.
Link Posted: 10/30/2004 5:17:12 AM EST

Originally Posted By RED_5:
yep, hunters and all the other "elitist" shooting disipline's... they're the ones with their heads burried in the sand..

sad..

the NRA needs to overhaul things and just be blunt and to the point with EVERYONE, that the anti's will stop at nothing to disarm EVERYONE.



The NRA's last American Rifleman magazine had a HUGE section on why Kerry will destroy the 2nd. But I haven't seen one thing relating to this in any "hunting" magazine. Someone correct me if I am wrong, but I have looked.

Get the word out, even if a hunter doen's want to hear it. When they get in the voting booth, they may have second thoughts.
Link Posted: 10/30/2004 5:20:27 AM EST
i agree, hunters working for unions will be the death of the 2nd
Link Posted: 10/30/2004 5:23:58 AM EST
[Last Edit: 10/30/2004 5:24:26 AM EST by Guns4Musenic]
Damn hunters always ruining it for those of us that want to defend our families and ourselves!
Link Posted: 10/30/2004 5:25:24 AM EST
Link Posted: 10/30/2004 5:28:00 AM EST

I've spent a great deal of time trying to let the 'hunters' here in Massachusetts North, er, I mean Michigan, know that sKerry is no friend of gun owners and hunters... I've had some success, but those damn 'Sportsmen for Kerry' signs are everywhere... stupid people...

The only thing dumber than the 'Sportsmen for Kerry' sign is the horrid 'Veterans for Kerry' signs... those two make my wanna go postal....

Link Posted: 10/30/2004 5:28:03 AM EST
I have a co-worker whose only reason to own firearms is sporting. He is a bird hunter. Has plenty of "gucci" gear to go along with his sport and the only semi-auto he owns is a Benelli.

After me, he is second in line to state the 2nd A has nothing to do with hunting.

He knows that after my EBRs are banned, his "sporting" firearms are next.

Sadly, our agreement on issues makes for pretty boring car rides, as we can't argue about politics.
Link Posted: 10/30/2004 5:29:06 AM EST
Link Posted: 10/30/2004 5:32:41 AM EST

Originally Posted By avengeusa:
i agree, hunters working for unions will be the death of the 2nd



It took me a minute to realize you were being sarcastic.

Link Posted: 10/30/2004 5:36:16 AM EST

Originally Posted By DarkStar:
I've spent a great deal of time trying to let the 'hunters' here in Massachusetts North, er, I mean Michigan, know that sKerry is no friend of gun owners and hunters... I've had some success, but those damn 'Sportsmen for Kerry' signs are everywhere... stupid people...

The only thing dumber than the 'Sportsmen for Kerry' sign is the horrid 'Veterans for Kerry' signs... those two make my wanna go postal....




+1

I know exactly what you mean.
Link Posted: 10/30/2004 5:36:53 AM EST
See sig line.
l
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V
Link Posted: 10/30/2004 5:37:17 AM EST

Originally Posted By Palo_Duro:

Originally Posted By avengeusa:
i agree, hunters working for unions will be the death of the 2nd



It took me a minute to realize you were being sarcastic.




I say that and worse about hunters and unions here in Michigan all the time, and I'm not being sarcastic...

Link Posted: 10/30/2004 5:39:04 AM EST

Originally Posted By DarkStar:...The only thing dumber than the 'Sportsmen for Kerry' sign is the horrid 'Veterans for Kerry' signs... those two make my wanna go postal....






+1


when I see these people, I match speed along side of them and just shake my head in discust... then pull away where they can see my Vet license plate, Bush sticker and CSSA sticker.
Link Posted: 10/30/2004 5:39:27 AM EST
Link Posted: 10/30/2004 5:43:48 AM EST
I can't tell you the number of times I have been told that you can't hunt deer with an AK-47.

Whoever let the 2nd Amendment hinge on hunting and sportsmen needs to be shot!
Link Posted: 10/30/2004 5:48:19 AM EST
[Last Edit: 10/30/2004 5:50:09 AM EST by Backstop]

Originally Posted By lippo:
I told him how big of a lie this was and how pissed I was that the Democratic party (remember I work at a union shop, and I told him this) lied in this way and how Kerry supported every anti-gun law that has come up for a vote.



I work in a Union shop also - Local 60 in SA. I'm waiting to get RIFed due to my big mouth regarding Hanoi Kerry and the 2nd - at least that is the rumor from last week.

There are three groups here:
1. Kerry would never take any of our guns. (largets group)
2. It's OK if Kerry takes the assault weapons -those are dangerous, dontcha know.
3. It doesn't matter if Kerry takes our guns; he will give us more work (jobs).

I've copied articles from America's First Freedom magazine, made copies of Kerry's voting record, copied the UN charter regarding guns in private ownership, etc - done almost everything I can think of to convince folks that Kerry is the most anti-gun Presidential candidate in history.

And people just won't believe it. And the folks I work with are all hunters. And I'm in Texas, for crying out loud!!!

There is one closet Bush voter, he's afraid to come out of the closet for fear of his job. Pussy!!


EDIT:
1. I was born and raised in Michigan - left in 76 when I joined the military
2. I am seriously considering leaving the Union.
Link Posted: 10/30/2004 5:49:31 AM EST
Link Posted: 10/30/2004 5:51:31 AM EST

Originally Posted By obershutze916:

Originally Posted By Palo_Duro:

Originally Posted By avengeusa:
i agree, hunters working for unions will be the death of the 2nd



It took me a minute to realize you were being sarcastic.




I don't think he was, and I agree with him.



I do too
Link Posted: 10/30/2004 5:51:43 AM EST
Far from allowing guns only for hunting; I'm of the opinion that a lot of hunters should not be allowed to own guns; or any sharp implement.
Link Posted: 10/30/2004 5:51:45 AM EST

Originally Posted By DarkStar:

Originally Posted By Palo_Duro:

Originally Posted By avengeusa:
i agree, hunters working for unions will be the death of the 2nd



It took me a minute to realize you were being sarcastic.




I say that and worse about hunters and unions here in Michigan all the time, and I'm not being sarcastic...




It's called selective perception. Lumping everyone into a category like that is blind ignorance. And I'm not trying to be insulting.

Link Posted: 10/30/2004 5:54:39 AM EST
The hunting crowd I hang with is extremely pro gun. For those that aren't, it might be more productive to to give them the facts. Prove to them that kerry is a liar with his voting record. While this is what lippo is trying to do, many here just bitch and get negative. Hunters are a progun bunch as a rule. The straglers are ripe for conversion with simple facts.
Link Posted: 10/30/2004 5:54:41 AM EST

Originally Posted By thebeekeeper1:

Originally Posted By Palo_Duro:

Originally Posted By avengeusa:
i agree, hunters working for unions will be the death of the 2nd



It took me a minute to realize you were being sarcastic.




He was? I agree with it wholeheartedly--though there aren't enough of them to truly cause the "death" of the Second (singlehandedly), though they contribute mightily. I live in a die-hard Union town--Decatur, Illinois--it made the national news several times with nasty strikes, so I am very familiar with the idiotic "Union mentality" regarding DemocRATS.



I would think you, of all people, would know better than to categorize everyone who hunts and is pro-union into one group. That would mean me, my father, my uncles, and many friends are all liars when we tell you that we're voting for Bush and know that the 2nd isn't about hunting.

Link Posted: 10/30/2004 5:55:18 AM EST

Originally Posted By obershutze916:

Originally Posted By Palo_Duro:

Originally Posted By avengeusa:
i agree, hunters working for unions will be the death of the 2nd



It took me a minute to realize you were being sarcastic.




I don't think he was, and I agree with him.



Another one.

Link Posted: 10/30/2004 5:55:58 AM EST

Originally Posted By Palo_Duro:

Originally Posted By DarkStar:

Originally Posted By Palo_Duro:

Originally Posted By avengeusa:
i agree, hunters working for unions will be the death of the 2nd



It took me a minute to realize you were being sarcastic.




I say that and worse about hunters and unions here in Michigan all the time, and I'm not being sarcastic...




It's called selective perception. Lumping everyone into a category like that is blind ignorance. And I'm not trying to be insulting.




When 99% of the people in the category fit the generalization, then it becomes ok.
Link Posted: 10/30/2004 5:56:21 AM EST
I don't believe Kerry "hunts" just because he poses for a camera with a gun, and I don't believe Geroge W. regularly does all this hard work on his "ranch" just because he poses for a camera while he is clearing brush.

It amazes me how fucking gullible people are when they see or hear things on tv.
Link Posted: 10/30/2004 5:56:26 AM EST
He he WAS being sarcastic, then he was being stupid as well.....


Hunters that are union members are a danger to the 2ndA !
Link Posted: 10/30/2004 5:56:30 AM EST
[Last Edit: 10/30/2004 6:02:59 AM EST by ScaryGuy]
The Mossy Oak Morons that I run into here make me ill..."Whayat in the Dad-gum Hayell do you need that thang fer? Gawd-Damn ma-sheen gun ain't good fer nuthin'...I don't thank them there AYY-ARRR thangs is legal, is they? I's heard that the Gubbmint banned them. No body need more'n a shotgun and a 30-30 anyhoo... You a goin' ta war or sumpin'????"

Explaining that it isn't a machine gun and it's perfectly legal to own and trying to expalin the 2nd is a lost point. Ignorant, and proud of it they are. It also makes me very aware that these fucktards are running around in the woods with loaded rifles, so I'm less inclined to hunt except on very private property.

Yeah, thanks for the social commentary there Larry the Cable Guy...Nice fucking WalMart camo. I didn't know that Chinese knock off MossyOak came in XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXL you fat fuck...

Ugh.

SG

Link Posted: 10/30/2004 6:00:49 AM EST

Originally Posted By ScaryGuy:
The Mossy Oak Morons that I run into here make me ill..."Whayat in the Dad-gum Hayell do you need that thang fer? Gawd-Damn ma-sheen gun ain't good fer nuthin'...No body need more'n a shotgun and a 30-30. You a goin' ta war or sumpin'????"



I see you've been talking to a guy I work with...

And everybody calls it a "banana clip."
Link Posted: 10/30/2004 6:01:19 AM EST
Link Posted: 10/30/2004 6:02:57 AM EST
[Last Edit: 10/30/2004 6:03:58 AM EST by ipschoser1]

Originally Posted By ScaryGuy:
The Mossy Oak Morons that I run into here make me ill..."Whayat in the Dad-gum Hayell do you need that thang fer? Gawd-Damn ma-sheen gun ain't good fer nuthin'...No body need more'n a shotgun and a 30-30. You a goin' ta war or sumpin'????"

Yeah, thanks for the social commentary there Larry the Cable Guy...Nice fucking WalMart camo. I didn't know that Chinese knock off MossyOak came in XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXL you fat fuck..






One more time... You live in a VERY progun state. The majority of hunters here are progun.

The hunting crowd I hang with is extremely pro gun. For those that aren't, it might be more productive to to give them the facts. Prove to them that kerry is a liar with his voting record. While this is what lippo is trying to do, many here just bitch and get negative. Hunters are a progun bunch as a rule. The straglers are ripe for conversion with simple facts.
Link Posted: 10/30/2004 6:03:48 AM EST
Ducks Unlimited can bet that they will never see a penny of my money after this Kerry crap.

If I lived around any of these Trap Ranges that allowed Kerry to pose with his borrowed dbl. barrel, I would really be a thorn in there side.
Link Posted: 10/30/2004 6:03:53 AM EST

Originally Posted By thebeekeeper1:

Originally Posted By Palo_Duro:

Originally Posted By thebeekeeper1:

Originally Posted By Palo_Duro:

Originally Posted By avengeusa:
i agree, hunters working for unions will be the death of the 2nd



It took me a minute to realize you were being sarcastic.




He was? I agree with it wholeheartedly--though there aren't enough of them to truly cause the "death" of the Second (singlehandedly), though they contribute mightily. I live in a die-hard Union town--Decatur, Illinois--it made the national news several times with nasty strikes, so I am very familiar with the idiotic "Union mentality" regarding DemocRATS.



I would think you, of all people, would know better than to categorize everyone who hunts and is pro-union into one group. That would mean me, my father, my uncles, and many friends are all liars when we tell you that we're voting for Bush and know that the 2nd isn't about hunting.




I did NOT say every single Union member has the "Union mentality"--but I have seen a (clear) majority who do. Would you say the majority of your "Union brothers" believe the same way you do? I thought not.



Would you say the majority of pro-dem, union members are hunters? I thought not.
Link Posted: 10/30/2004 6:05:34 AM EST
[Last Edit: 10/30/2004 6:09:30 AM EST by ScaryGuy]

Originally Posted By ipschoser1:

Originally Posted By ScaryGuy:
The Mossy Oak Morons that I run into here make me ill..."Whayat in the Dad-gum Hayell do you need that thang fer? Gawd-Damn ma-sheen gun ain't good fer nuthin'...No body need more'n a shotgun and a 30-30. You a goin' ta war or sumpin'????"

Yeah, thanks for the social commentary there Larry the Cable Guy...Nice fucking WalMart camo. I didn't know that Chinese knock off MossyOak came in XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXL you fat fuck..






One more time... You live in a VERY progun state. The majority of hunters here are progun.

The hunting crowd I hang with is extremely pro gun. For those that aren't, it might be more productive to to give them the facts. Prove to them that kerry is a liar with his voting record. While this is what lippo is trying to do, many here just bitch and get negative. Hunters are a progun bunch as a rule. The straglers are ripe for conversion with simple facts.




The ones I have the unfortunate pleasure of running into are proud of and happy in their ignorance. Attempts to explain facts have been met with the best drooling blank stare you can imagine. I might as well have been speaking to their truck or a random tree. Offers to let them shoot my toys are met with disdain as "Nobody need that kinda shit nohow..." Frankly, I find it disturbing that these mental giants are allowed to roam freely in the same woods with me with loaded rifles, which makes me VERY picky about where I hunt.

Thankfully, yes, I am aware that we are a very progun state, but I assure you, we have more than our fair share of the "Sportsmen for Kerry" crowd. I've converted a few, but the obvious lisping morons are beyond my efforts anymore. Sorry...

SG
Link Posted: 10/30/2004 6:06:21 AM EST
Now hold the phone, there are typical hunters and there are gun nuts who are hunters. Many of us around here are the second type. I hunt(no birds though) I hunt with bolt guns, I hunt with shotguns, I hunt with semi-autos, and none of the semi-autos I hunt with are PC guns.

I know some folk that fall into the other catagory of typical hunter, I even let them shoot my ARs and AK if they want to just so they can see that, while they may choose not to use one for hunting, it's still a helluva lot more fun to come out to the range and shoot the evil non-PC guns than it is to sit around shooting off a bench all damn day with yer bolt gun. Don't get me wrong I have fun shooting my bolt guns too, especially my presision rifle, but dumping a 30 rd mag is more fun. I have two guys that are typical hunters who are seriously considering getting ARs just so they can have a "fun gun" But even than I honestly don't think that they will still give two rats should another ban be preposed or something similar.

To bad too. That reminds me I got to go to that SKS owners for sKerry website and get an email addy, somone needs to get an edimication
Link Posted: 10/30/2004 6:06:25 AM EST

Originally Posted By thebeekeeper1:

Originally Posted By Palo_Duro:

Originally Posted By avengeusa:
i agree, hunters working for unions will be the death of the 2nd



It took me a minute to realize you were being sarcastic.




He was? I agree with it wholeheartedly--though there aren't enough of them to truly cause the "death" of the Second (singlehandedly), though they contribute mightily. I live in a die-hard Union town--Decatur, Illinois--it made the national news several times with nasty strikes, so I am very familiar with the idiotic "Union mentality" regarding DemocRATS.



I have to disagree on the Union part. I would rather work for a company that is unionized rather than not.

But, stupid Hunters will kill firearm rights, yes. I've been told time and time again by "Hunters" that you can't hunt with an SKS...

Well, jesus, I guess you can't hunt with a .30-30 either.
Link Posted: 10/30/2004 6:08:41 AM EST
This is so utterly true.

I am in a labor union in western Pennsylvania.

There is a Republican insurgency going on amidst the IBEW "Vote for Kerry" crowd. Most of the people I know are voting for Bush. We all have "Bush/Cheney 2004" stickers on our hardhats.

The one thing that kills me more than anythting else are all of the hunters who can't figure out that Kerry will betray them.

There are many hunters/NRA members in the unions but they are all duped because Kerry only wants to ban "those guns", i.e. "not my huntin' gun."

I think that we know the truth.

Link Posted: 10/30/2004 6:09:53 AM EST
Link Posted: 10/30/2004 6:14:31 AM EST

Originally Posted By thebeekeeper1:

Originally Posted By Palo_Duro:
Would you say the majority of pro-dem, union members are hunters? I thought not.



I was responding to a specific post--YOURS, and your quote of avengeusa. I have no clue whether a "majority of pro-dem, union members are hunters"--that's not the issue. The "Union mentality" stooges are pro-dem for sure, and my point is the hunters among them SHOULD (as you say you and your family do, to your HUGE credit) have enough sense to see through the BS of the DemocRATS and Union Socialists. That's all--certainly no insult to you and yours was intended. You are obviously NOT part of the group I hold in such disdain, which is HUNTERS who are also UNION MEMBERS, but buy the "Union mentality" line and run with it.



I gotcha. Understood. But it doesn't take much effort to convert a pro-union hunter. If someone truly values hunting, they will listen (in my experience, anyway). A few words and some hard facts and I usually get a, "...no kidding? Really? I didn't realize that..."

Those pro-dems who hunt but could care less if they made it out for opening day are a different story, however.

Link Posted: 10/30/2004 6:19:33 AM EST
Link Posted: 10/30/2004 6:21:01 AM EST

Originally Posted By Palo_Duro:
Would you say the majority of pro-dem, union members are hunters? I thought not.



The frustration here is that Michigan is a huge union state, and a huge hunting state. The perception quickly becomes that the hunting crowd here is and the Union crowd are one and the same. That's because "everyone" here hunts and "everyone" here is in the union.
Link Posted: 10/30/2004 6:22:59 AM EST

Originally Posted By Palo_Duro:
It's called selective perception. Lumping everyone into a category like that is blind ignorance. And I'm not trying to be insulting.



No it's not ignorance, it's discussing a theory in general terms. No more 'selective perception' than saying 'liberals want the US to be a socialist nation.' I can find many who claim not to want that.

I think he's got a point. Were I (still) an anti-gunner, and devising a strategy by which to fragment the gunowner vote, I'd hit hunters who belong to unions, specifically. A high perentage of union members trend left on economic views (by definition). If a far-left candidate like Kerry can claim them, despite his extreme anti-gun views, it's a huge win for him, and the broader anti-gun movement in general.

There's a reason he bothered with the hunting trip.

But we'll see how they do on Tuesday. It would be interesting to see the vote breakdown of 'union hunters.'
Link Posted: 10/30/2004 6:29:14 AM EST

Originally Posted By the:

There's a reason he bothered with the hunting trip.
It would be interesting to see the vote breakdown of 'union hunters.'



Good point. And yes, it would be especially interesting to me.
Link Posted: 10/30/2004 6:32:47 AM EST

Originally Posted By motown_steve:

Originally Posted By Palo_Duro:
Would you say the majority of pro-dem, union members are hunters? I thought not.



The frustration here is that Michigan is a huge union state, and a huge hunting state. The perception quickly becomes that the hunting crowd here is and the Union crowd are one and the same. That's because "everyone" here hunts and "everyone" here is in the union.



I'd say you've got your work cut out for you. Remember, liberals are that way for one of three reasons - lack of intelligence, apathy, or ignorance. You can convert the ignorant crowd.

Link Posted: 10/30/2004 7:50:23 AM EST
"Hunters Will Be The End Of Our Second Amendment Rights".

Geez, so you're saying that I should stop hunting and pick up underwater bump-firing so I won't be part of "the end of our second amemdnment rights?".

Link Posted: 10/30/2004 7:53:35 AM EST

Originally Posted By llanero:
"Hunters Will Be The End Of Our Second Amendment Rights".

Geez, so you're saying that I should stop hunting and pick up underwater bump-firing so I won't be part of "the end of our second amemdnment rights?".




I believe he said, "hunters working for unions." There might be some truth to that. We'll know on Tuesday.
Link Posted: 10/30/2004 7:54:59 AM EST
Link Posted: 10/30/2004 8:37:01 AM EST
Long before anyone said anything about AW's, clips and mags, folding stocks, and semi-autos hunters were telling us that we didn't need pistols for hunting.
Link Posted: 10/30/2004 8:42:18 AM EST

Originally Posted By Thekatar:
This is so utterly true.
I am in a labor union in western Pennsylvania.

There is a Republican insurgency going on amidst the IBEW "Vote for Kerry" crowd. Most of the people I know are voting for Bush. We all have "Bush/Cheney 2004" stickers on our hardhats.

The one thing that kills me more than anythting else are all of the hunters who can't figure out that Kerry will betray them.

There are many hunters/NRA members in the unions but they are all duped because Kerry only wants to ban "those guns", i.e. "not my huntin' gun."

I think that we know the truth.




Ask someone from CA about the "those guns" question
Link Posted: 10/30/2004 8:44:33 AM EST
[Last Edit: 10/30/2004 8:45:00 AM EST by Leisure_Shoot]
The Hunters Will Become The Hunted.
Once the "Evil Black Rifles" are gone.
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