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Posted: 10/4/2004 1:06:05 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 10/4/2004 1:13:18 PM EDT by Chimborazo]
I don't have time to respond to this guy right now, so I was hoping you could help me out (and I could plagerize).

Here is my original post:

Originally posted by *****
i dont know...i really dont think folks need assault weapons, but that's me. i'm opposed to handguns as well. rifles and shotguns, i think, are totally fine. and if i were to ever buy a guy, a shotgun it'd be....scattering buckshot across a room sounds kinda cool. plus, pump action is bad azz.

Define "assault weapon". I find that most anti-gunners who are the ones trying to make policy decisions have no idea what they're talking about when it comes to the mechanics and technical details of firearms (and ballistics). A fine example of that is your "scattering buckshot across a room sounds kinda cool" quotation. Do you know what the functional differences are between a civilian AR-15 manufactured before 9/13/2004 and one manufactured after?

and i dont think taking guns away from everyone is a good idea...especially with bush in the white house...never know when ashcroft's cronies might show up at your door.

So would you rather have a hunting rifle or an AR-15? The whole purpose of the Second Amendment was to address this issue. It is NOT about hunting or "sporting uses".

but this stupid effin congressman, from indiana i believe, is trying to push a bill through congress repealing the gun laws for DC. no big deal you say? consider that one of the laws he's trying to repeal is the one which penalizes people for carrying unregistered firearms.

now considering the penchant that dc residents have for shooting one another, AND the ease of which one can buy a gun right across the river in the old dominion, this aint exactly the smartest of bright ideas. its practically an invitation for killing. and now the possibility of carrying unregistered assault weapons with no penalty? well god damn! it, as they say, is on.

i wonder what the gun manufacturing lobby from indiana is like...

I cannot understand this "logic". I'll say this as plainly as possible: CRIMINALS DO NOT OBEY THE LAW.

Do you think that a gang banger who wants to rob and kill someone will think "you know, I better not do this because carrying an 'unregistered' gun is against the law". That's absurd. Murder and robbery are illegal, right?

Do you know what is involved in legally purchasing a firearm in Virginia? DC residents cannot buy handguns here. It is a Federal offense, and also happens to be a felony. Not just for the purchaser, but for the FFL as well. I believe it is also a violation of VA state law as well (also a felony). In order to buy a handgun in VA, you must be a legal resident of VA. Period. Further, you need two forms of ID, must pass an NCIC instant check, and fill out two forms (one BATF form and one VA State Police form). The State Police form is destroyed within thirty days of a passed check. The BATF form is retained by the dealer forever (as long as he is an FFL). If he dies or retires, he is required to hand over the all of those forms to ATF, which are held in a warehouse. They are accessible to the governement only by court order, or with certain permissions (I get my gun stolen, and give permission to check the records because I did not write down the gun's serial number).

Oh, even attempting to buy a firearm (handgun or longgun) if you are a person disqualified from possessing one (convicted felon, misdemeanor domestic assault, etc.), it is also a felony. That's right, you can be locked up for even trying. I see it happen at every gun show.

Anyway, there is more to it, but I'm sick of typing.

His follow-up:

Chimborazo wrote:
I find that most anti-gunners...

ok...i'll gladly admit i know fuck all about guns; the ins, outs, and etc. however, i would not consider myself an anti-gunner....
and frankly i could care less about the functional differences on an AR-15 pre or post 09/13/2004.

personally, i dont see the need for a massive, rapid firing gun. or a handgun. now that's personal. for me. those are my feelings.

So would you rather have a hunting rifle or an AR-15? The whole purpose of the Second Amendment was to address this issue. It is NOT about hunting or "sporting uses".

well...i'd rather have a nice, dirty bomb that way i can take out my irritating neighbor as well any criminal or gestapo element.

but seriously, i'd rather have neither. i would prefer not to have a gun in my house. if i were to ever buy a gun, it would be a shotgun. my gun knowledge is mighty feeble, but if i were in bed and someone came into my room i'd rather have something that cast a wide berth as opposed to something more pinpoint. again, my gun knowledge is mighty, mighty weak.

i worked with a girl some years ago in richmond who had a boyfriend from the new york/new jersey area. he set her up with an apartment down here, which he'd come down and use from time to time. now i know,I KNOW, that this boyfriend came down here because he had himself a nice little gun and drug running business between here and there. and one morning, when she was supposed to show up to relieve me, she made the front page of the RTD for the raid the police conducted at her (boyfriend supplied) pad.

my point was more on the subject of the availability of guns in virginia. as you may or may not know, virginia is a bit infamous on the east coast for obtaining guns which are then taken to other states.

"In 1996, the ten states with the weakest gun control laws supplied 54.2% of guns seized in out of state crimes."

"More than half of all guns recovered in crimes committed in the District were purchased from gun dealers in Virginia and Maryland, according to a study released yesterday by the federal Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms."

"Al-Fuqra Members of Al-Fuqra, a US-based organization linked to numerous terrorist attacks, exploited gun-law loopholes in Virginia to acquire a small arsenal of weapons. As a convicted felon, Vincente Pierre couldn't legally purchase a firearm, so he had his wife, Traci Upshur, buy guns for him. The "straw purchase" was videotaped in 1998 by ATF agents, who were gathering evidence against members of Al-Fuqra as part of a wide-scale investigation. It wasn't until after September 11, however, that the two were finally arrested, in what US Attorney John Brownlee characterized as a new policy of "prevent first and prosecute second." Another Al-Fuqra member, Bilal Abdullah ben Benu, lied about his criminal past when purchasing firearms in 1999. Like Pierre and Upshur, Benu had been under surveillance by ATF long before September 11, and was quickly arrested afterward"

"...a 1992 BATF study revealing that 26% of guns recovered from crime scenes in New York City were purchased in Virginia..."

"Information is out there. In his research, for example, Andrews found that, from 1996 to 2000, a shop called Virginia Police Equipment in Richmond sold 152 guns that turned up in New York City police investigations. R&B Guns of Hampton, Va., sold 121 guns used in crimes here. If the NYPD told the world - how about posting the info on the Internet? - there'd be a growing public record that could be used to get tough on these death shops and the willfully ignorant gun manufacturers who supply them."

Do you know what is involved in legally purchasing a firearm in Virginia?

um...to quote you:

I'll say this as plainly as possible: CRIMINALS DO NOT OBEY THE LAW.

i'm not anti-gun. i'm anti- certain kinds of guns. i used to be anti-gun, but my views have become a bit more libertarian with age. i will say that spending a year living in a country where there are no guns felt mighty, mighty safe. it took a good month or two to overcome american paranoia when walking around at night, hearing footsteps behind me, only to turn and see some little old korean ahjumma toting her groceries. and when korean folks would tell me how they were scared of gangsters with knives i could only laugh.
Link Posted: 10/4/2004 1:10:31 PM EDT
Direct this person to: www.guncite.com

Tell them that after they done some reading, DO SOME RESEARCH.

They'll find out that most of what they know and believe about guns is a lie and that they've been GULLIBLE.
Link Posted: 10/5/2004 5:10:52 AM EDT
Thanks for the link. I'll send it to him, but I somehow doubt that he'll go through the site.
Link Posted: 10/5/2004 5:24:58 AM EDT
Sounds to me like he is just lazy. He would rather have a gun where he can pull the trigger once and "scatter buckshot" across the room instead of one where you have to pull the trigger multiply time to get the same effect. Lazy, I tell ya.
Link Posted: 10/5/2004 5:37:51 AM EDT
He's an intellectual midget. Not worth your time. His dad wasted his money shot.
Link Posted: 10/5/2004 5:45:57 AM EDT
That sounds like a certain dude I've argued with before.... Ask him if certain kinds of music should be banned if it could be proven that it has a negative impact on society. Some music is good and is a viable art form, wheras other types are nothing more than instruction manuals for the criminal lifestyle.
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