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11/24/2017 4:44:23 PM
11/22/2017 10:05:29 PM
Posted: 10/22/2004 1:02:28 PM EST
[Last Edit: 10/22/2004 1:04:35 PM EST by TheAvatar9265ft]
Duds are very rare in this instance, but here's a scenario a friend was telling me about:

So you are dealing with an unexploded 2.25lbs PETN hand charge (grenade) or airpressure launched projectile that is unexploded on an unstable slope (these charges are used to set off avalanches on unstable snow slopes above highways and ski areas).

The round *could* go off spontaneously or not. If not the slope will eventually avalanche and the location o the ordinance will be unknown (somewhere in the debris pile).

A hand charge has probably sunk into the snow (you can see the hole) and has a rope tied to it (the thrower has the other end). The projectile may or may not be buried.

Current method: Walk up to the projectile or hole (on the unstable snow) and drop another hand charge down the hole (so they are touching and destruction is assured) and run like hell (hoping the slope doesn't go while you are on it).

Better ideas (pull on rope until round is visible and shoot at it (WHAT ROUND TO USE?))

Any better ideas?
Link Posted: 10/22/2004 1:03:23 PM EST
Toss a liberal on it and have a Kerry supporter stomp on his back.


Link Posted: 10/22/2004 1:03:43 PM EST
Hammers are cheap!
Link Posted: 10/22/2004 1:04:07 PM EST
Set a new charge and back off.
Link Posted: 10/22/2004 1:05:38 PM EST
Third option: contact your nearest EOD Tech and let the experts take care of the problem. I'll run into a burning building, but I'm not that stupid.

E-95
Link Posted: 10/22/2004 1:08:10 PM EST
tannerite.

Discussion closed.
Link Posted: 10/22/2004 1:12:21 PM EST

Originally Posted By E-95:
Third option: contact your nearest EOD Tech and let the experts take care of the problem. I'll run into a burning building, but I'm not that stupid.

E-95



All the people involved all have blaster licenses and EOD techs (75 miles away for nearest team) don't have avalanche safety training or skiing skills often.

It's SOP for a highway control crew or ski patrol avalanche control crew to deal with it themselves AFAIK.

So what about shooting the charge from a distance? Would that set it off? (I dont know about explosives) It's PETN
Link Posted: 10/22/2004 4:53:17 PM EST
Well, what weapons do you have to reach out and touch the charge from a safe distance? If the charge is buried (i.e. you can't see it), is this really an option? What is the activating device on the charge? If you dropped another charge in the hole and detonated it, how would you confirm that your original charge had blown?

Is this a hypothetical scenario?

Wow, I seem to be full of questions for someone who has no idea what the fuck he's talking about.

E-95
Link Posted: 10/22/2004 4:58:58 PM EST
Unstable Slope???

Don't talk about my wife like that!
Link Posted: 10/22/2004 5:04:57 PM EST

Originally Posted By Takakuraken:
Unstable Slope???

Don't talk about my wife like that!




Link Posted: 10/22/2004 5:05:51 PM EST
Drop a 2nd charge in and detonate in place, BUT use a charge that's remotely detonated (eg with a blasting cap), not a grenade.
Link Posted: 10/22/2004 5:06:13 PM EST
Shooting at it would not set it off, unless you somehow hit the detonator. imho
Link Posted: 10/22/2004 6:36:31 PM EST
If you were to drop a fresh charge and detonate it, it would seem that if the first charge were not set off by the 2nd one, it was reallyand truly a dud.
Link Posted: 10/22/2004 6:48:53 PM EST
[Last Edit: 10/22/2004 6:51:14 PM EST by TheRedHorseman]
I'd definitely go for a stick of C-4 placed next to it with a remote detonator. if no remote detonator is to be had, make sure you use about 30 mins worth of timer fuze OVER what it will take for you to get away from the unstable area just for a good safety margin.

either that or use TWO sticks of C-4, man I love using that stuff.

ETA: this is for the launched projectile

for a hand emplaced device, I'd just get a much longer rope and pull on the biotch, get it away from the unstable area, and then after letting it sit for at least an hour, place a stick of C-4 next to it in the regular "pop& drop" fashion used for land mines.
Link Posted: 10/22/2004 6:50:44 PM EST
Command detonation.

Kharn
Link Posted: 10/22/2004 6:51:38 PM EST
Might I reccomend that you post this over on the EOD tech forum at lightfighter forums? Lots of EOD folks that go over there.

John
Link Posted: 10/22/2004 6:57:28 PM EST
PETN will go off if struck by a projectile, it is shock sensitive, provided this piece of ordnance is thin skinned. If the fuzing is a powder train time fuze(think of it just like cannon fuse but internal in a fuze), we used the 30 minute wait rule to approach said item.

As far as throwing another charge in the hole, unless you can garuntee that the second charge will fall with in about an inch or be touching the Dud, you make not get the dud to sympathetically detonate.

My recommendation is to leave it especially if approaching it is putting one's life at risk. Your friend can have a clearance run in the spring to look for the item. I know WA state Avalanche control teams get EOD to help clear areas every couple of years in certain areas.
Link Posted: 10/22/2004 6:57:40 PM EST
[Last Edit: 10/22/2004 7:05:32 PM EST by bmick325]

Originally Posted By TheAvatar9265ft:
Duds are very rare in this instance, but here's a scenario a friend was telling me about:

So you are dealing with an unexploded 2.25lbs PETN hand charge (grenade) or airpressure launched projectile that is unexploded on an unstable slope (these charges are used to set off avalanches on unstable snow slopes above highways and ski areas).

The round *could* go off spontaneously or not. If not the slope will eventually avalanche and the location o the ordinance will be unknown (somewhere in the debris pile).

A hand charge has probably sunk into the snow (you can see the hole) and has a rope tied to it (the thrower has the other end). The projectile may or may not be buried.

Current method: Walk up to the projectile or hole (on the unstable snow) and drop another hand charge down the hole (so they are touching and destruction is assured) and run like hell (hoping the slope doesn't go while you are on it).

Better ideas (pull on rope until round is visible and shoot at it (WHAT ROUND TO USE?))

Any better ideas?



I would be more worried about avalanches and I wouldn't approach the area after the misfire. Sounds like screwing around in an avalanche prone area would be more likely to kill you than the misfired charge.

IF the charge is still attached to the rope and IF there is enough rope you might try to pull it to the surface. The trick is to use a pulley system so the rope pulls the charge out, but not toward you in the process. This will require lots of rope to stay a safe distance away from the charge and pull it off of the unstable slope. After you get the charge to an area you can approach, you could handle it the same way you handle any other blasting misfire.

Disruption by gunfire looks good in movies but does not always cause a high order detonation. It might just cause a low order detonation or mechanical breakup. Then you have to worry about what you are going to do to all the chunks of HE you just scattered all over the place and the fact that they may be more sensitive in this condition.

FYI, Avalanche control charges are not always unexploded ordnance in the military sense and it might be hard to get a military EOD unit out to take care of them for a variety of reasons.

Link Posted: 10/22/2004 7:02:19 PM EST
Find a really deep lake or body of water that there is no chance of anyone recovering it from and sink it?
Link Posted: 10/22/2004 7:24:05 PM EST
Fire an RPG at it from a couple hundred yards away.
Link Posted: 10/22/2004 7:57:13 PM EST
Pull out and nuke it from orbit, it's the only way to be sure!

WOW! I can't believe I was the first one to post that!


Tall Shadow
Link Posted: 10/22/2004 8:21:55 PM EST
Link Posted: 10/22/2004 8:27:50 PM EST
I'd drink a six pack of beer. After that i'd say what might turn out to be my last words "hey guys check this out" and shoot at it.
Link Posted: 10/22/2004 8:36:42 PM EST

Originally Posted By Sin_Bin:
Toss a liberal on it and have a Kerry supporter stomp on his back.





Link Posted: 10/22/2004 8:39:46 PM EST
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