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9/22/2017 12:11:25 AM
Posted: 7/11/2001 11:28:23 PM EDT
It never ceases to amaze me how fast one moment of anger can end up costing at this time a young man's right to carry a firearm. Several days ago a young couple were returning from a visit in the heartland of Idaho. On the way south to Utah, a nutball was driving stupid, and this young man allowed his anger at the other fools actions to prompt him to point a loaded weapon at the other driver. One of my officers chased him for miles, and eventually stopped him in Utah. By this time he had unloaded the weapon, and stashed it under the seat. When questioned, he admitted to ignoring the lights while he was busy unloading the Kimber. He had his wife and two little children in the car. Now he faces aggravated assault (felony), the loss of the weapon to evidence, and has screwed his chances to go into the service since he is facing charges. Our rights are being attacked enough without resorting to rash irresponsible actions while driving. I know that there are some drivers out there that can piss you off in a heartbeat when driving. If you were educating someone on how to handle road rage, what would you say? (Especially gun owners) The weapon he no longer has was a brand new Kimber stainless.
Link Posted: 7/11/2001 11:44:12 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 7/11/2001 11:45:02 PM EDT by HANGFIRE]
Good Job. You guys got him before he used it. You keep pulling it out and you will use it. I keep one and I will never pull it out except to use it, never. I have had some bad road rage experiences but never thought about pulling a gun. I am reaching for the cell phone to call them in. As far as education I like the wall of shame. Their picture, their crime, their punishment, and what it has cost them in Rights lost.
Link Posted: 7/12/2001 12:11:03 AM EDT
t rex: If you were educating someone on how to handle road rage, what would you say? (Especially gun owners) The weapon he no longer has was a brand new Kimber stainless.
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It doesn't matter what kind of pistol it was, that asshole should loose any RKBA until he grows up. [i]I know - Odds are he'll never grow up (But now, the odds are he'll never regain the right anyway).[/i] Glad you got him, [b]his[/b] education begins [b]now[/b]. BTW, was he sober?
Link Posted: 7/12/2001 12:27:29 AM EDT
In a road rage situation, I think it would be easier to just run the guy off the road... "Oops, I'm sorry, I wasn't paying attention" I was involved in an incident many years ago, and I still chuckle when I think about it... I was coming home from work late one night (about 2AM) in my Chevy P/U truck, and some guy comes screaming up behind me, and won't pass.(We're on a 4-lane highway) After he tailgated me for a few miles, I slowed a little, hoping he would just pass me. He slowed too, and stayed on my ass. I tried speeding up, he also sped up. This went on for a few miles, til I didn't think it was funny anymore... I got off at my exit, and this guy still followed me, tailgating the whole time.So close, I couldn't see his headlights in my mirrors. I was only about 4 miles from my home, and I didn't want this guy to follow me to my driveway... So I sped up again, and when he got good and close... A cat happens to run in front of me...[:)] SCREEEEEEECH!!!! I slammed on my brakes... My truck came to a complete stop, (allowing the cat to safely cross the road) and a split second later.... WHAAAAM!!! The guy smashes into the back of my truck... I mashed the throttle and sped away... End of problem.... As I drove away, I looked into the rearview mirror and saw he had only one headlight remaining, and it was pointed into the trees...[:)] Luckily, I had a Class III frame mounted hitch on the truck, with a 2-5/16" ball in it... Not even a scratch on my bumper... More effective than pulling a gun... No crime committed either...
Link Posted: 7/12/2001 1:45:45 AM EDT
Road rage..... Another test of character. He lost.
Link Posted: 7/12/2001 2:54:53 AM EDT
I used to get angry and flip the "bird" at drivers that have irratated me, but finally realized, this is not worth my life. To many idiot's are willing to do what the above mentioned guy did and pull a gun.
Link Posted: 7/12/2001 3:48:04 AM EDT
QUESTION: Who coined the term "ROAD RAGE" and how does it fit into making everything you can, or will do criminal? Considering the use of the word terrorism to label anyone form any walk of life a terrorist, like paper terrorist, fax terrorist, computer terrorist, potential terrorist threat, terrorist threat, do any of you know how these terms appeared out of thin air, and into everyday use here in America? Consider that the mainstream media has focused on doing a documentry on, "THE LAST REVOLUTIONARY", Castro they claim! Prior to this now common use of the word terrorist! Yes, a freedom fighter, revolutionary, or anyone seeking to free themselves from tyranny, is now a terrorist! How were these terms used to eradicate millions of innocent people from all walks of life! Now, do not get me wrong, if some scumbag like the one discribed herein pointed a weapon at me, I would take them down, right there, during their felony act!
Link Posted: 7/12/2001 4:52:57 AM EDT
Calling the police hotlines is definetly a better idea than pulling a gun. It isn't very effective though. I've called the hot line many times telling them I'm an off duty police officer and there is some idiot trying to kill people heading such and such direction on such and such highway. They say they'll send somebody. I happen to have an eye on the guy for over an hour since I'm going the same way, and guess what, no one stops him. Troopers pass from the opposite direction and never attempt to stop the guy. The police hotlines are pretty much a citizen feel good device.
Link Posted: 7/12/2001 5:18:21 AM EDT
The liberals in Hollywood show pulling a gun as the answer to every little aggravation in life. How many times have you seen a cop pull a gun on his partner or someone else to get them to shut up? How many times did Mel Gibson pull a weapon in the Lethal Weapons movies when he had no reason to? This dodo was a total moron. Totally unjustified use of his weapon. He'll get what he deserves, but he makes us all look bad.
Link Posted: 7/12/2001 5:59:45 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 7/12/2001 5:59:06 AM EDT by Princeton]
I used to get angry and flip the "bird" at drivers that have irratated me, but finally realized, this is not worth my life.
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I learned the same lesson right after I got my carry permit. I had a Lincoln MarkVIII and while driving I would routinely put my Glock 40 S&W under the edge of my floor mat so it was in easy reach from the drivers seat. I didn't even have to lean forward to get to it. While driving a highway near my house I wanted to change lanes so I could take an off ramp to get to another highway. Plenty of room to merge but once I put on my turn signal the guy behind me in that lane decides to speed up so I couldn't get in. Well I merged in anyhow and he had to brake hard to keep from hitting me. I looked in my rear view mirror and he's making a jerking motion with a fist so I gave him "the Bird". When we were finally on the new highway I see he's not alone in the car and both people in the car are pointing at me to pull over. I tried to ignore them but they suddenly start trying to force me off the road. No matter what I did, slow down, speed up, change lanes they continued to try to get me to pull over. I picked up my pistol and put it on my lap and then picked up my cell phone and faked dialing so they would see and they suddenly wanted no part of me and sped off. Thinking about it afterwards I realised I was partly responsible for letting the situation get out of hand. I antagonised them into a confrontation. The whole situation could have ended very bad had they managed to force me off the road. Could have at the very least cost them their lives and me my freedom.
Link Posted: 7/12/2001 6:07:38 AM EDT
Originally Posted By sf46: Calling the police hotlines is definetly a better idea than pulling a gun. It isn't very effective though. I've called the hot line many times telling them I'm an off duty police officer and there is some idiot trying to kill people heading such and such direction on such and such highway. They say they'll send somebody. I happen to have an eye on the guy for over an hour since I'm going the same way, and guess what, no one stops him. Troopers pass from the opposite direction and never attempt to stop the guy. The police hotlines are pretty much a citizen feel good device.
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Sorry. We have "Mobile Eyes", a program founded and run by a Cell phone business owner that was almost killed by a drunk driver. He donates money from sales and fundraisers to offer rewards for every cell phone caller that gives info that leads to a DWI or Reckless Driving conviction. It works really good when there are officers available....
Link Posted: 7/12/2001 6:17:24 AM EDT
Originally Posted By fight4yourrights: The liberals in Hollywood show pulling a gun as the answer to every little aggravation in life. How many times have you seen a cop pull a gun on his partner or someone else to get them to shut up? How many times did Mel Gibson pull a weapon in the Lethal Weapons movies when he had no reason to? This dodo was a total moron. Totally unjustified use of his weapon. He'll get what he deserves, but he makes us all look bad.
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Isn't the guy who directed the Lethal Weapon movies a rabid anti? Funny because those movies depict some of the most inept firearms handling I've ever seen. My favorite is when Mel Gibson is chasing the BG through a traffic jam, holds his MP5 above his head and fires blindly with innocents all over the place. Odd how those Hollywood antis have no problem making a living off of depicting the misuse of firearms. Back to the subject; glad you guys got this idiot because frankly he was a loose cannon and the kind of person who should NOT have a gun. Lucky all he lost was his right to carry. When one arms himself, one takes on a whole new set of responsibilities. The use of deadly force is one not to be taken lightly. But as already pointed out, Hollywood has made it the answer for everything. Add to that society's loss of respect for human life and the "how dare you" mentality that has become common and you've got a whole lot of people out there that care about no one but themselves and can't just leave things be. Too bad jerks like this give all gun owners a bad name.
Link Posted: 7/12/2001 7:32:34 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 7/12/2001 7:31:29 AM EDT by erickm]
Originally Posted By andreusan: Now, do not get me wrong, if some scumbag like the one discribed herein pointed a weapon at me, I would take them down, right there, during their felony act!
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you would be able to aim and fire through 2 panes (one on your car and one on his) of [i]angled[/i] glass, possibly safety glass if windshields or rear windows are in the path, at a driver of a moving vehicle, from a moving vehicle and be able to retain control of your vehicle and weapon all while going down the highway? Is your name Mel or Arnold? Not to mention you could still be charged with a crime, even though it would have been you who was initially threatened. At an intermediate level CCW class I went too (optional 2nd course) our assist. DA was there and told us that if you are in a vehicle and the motor is running (and in the case we're talking about especially so since forward speed is already established) [b]you, 99% of the time have an escape route without having to escalate/match the show or use of force[/b] and once again especially here since the vehicle is already moving. He said a running vehicle of the CCW holder would definitely be discussed by him and his staff if a shot had to be fired.
Link Posted: 7/12/2001 8:10:05 AM EDT
Link Posted: 7/12/2001 8:22:53 AM EDT
QUESTION: Who coined the term "ROAD RAGE" and how does it fit into making everything you can, or will do criminal?
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I know what you mean. What if you stick your tongue out at someone who is gay, or a different race? Would you be guilty of a hate crime?
Link Posted: 7/12/2001 8:50:51 AM EDT
I don't need a gun when I'm driving. If someone gets in my way I just run them over and kill them.
Link Posted: 7/12/2001 10:02:14 AM EDT
The main reason for the post was that we fight hard to protect our rights from those that will take them. When we have someone who can go out and buy a brand new weapon, then allow his stupid antics to provide more ammunition for the enemy, it simply pisses me off. This guy had a cell phone, and on numerous occasions we have stopped nut balls who use their vehicles to endanger others, and they go to jail for reckless driving. As far as the term road rage, it does fit those who allow someone else to control their lives even for a brief time. Hell, they do something to you, and if you get angry it stays with you all day, the other guy just goes his way and has no feelings whatsoever since he is oblivious to what he has done. We talk about what is needed for gun Control and it's a combination of mental and physical skills. When all of our mental skills are at their peak, then we can truly control our future. Those who drive stupid will be seen as just what they are Stupid ass drivers.
Link Posted: 7/12/2001 1:16:07 PM EDT
Originally Posted By erickm:
Originally Posted By andreusan: Now, do not get me wrong, if some scumbag like the one discribed herein pointed a weapon at me, I would take them down, right there, during their felony act!
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you would be able to aim and fire through 2 panes (one on your car and one on his) of [i]angled[/i] glass, possibly safety glass if windshields or rear windows are in the path, at a driver of a moving vehicle, from a moving vehicle and be able to retain control of your vehicle and weapon all while going down the highway? Is your name Mel or Arnold? Not to mention you could still be charged with a crime, even though it would have been you who was initially threatened. At an intermediate level CCW class I went too (optional 2nd course) our assist. DA was there and told us that if you are in a vehicle and the motor is running (and in the case we're talking about especially so since forward speed is already established) [b]you, 99% of the time have an escape route without having to escalate/match the show or use of force[/b] and once again especially here since the vehicle is already moving. He said a running vehicle of the CCW holder would definitely be discussed by him and his staff if a shot had to be fired.
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not just the shooting thru glass u do maneg to hit him and he spins out hittng and killing someone guess whos at fault YOU!
Link Posted: 7/12/2001 6:39:08 PM EDT
Originally Posted By t rex: He had his wife and two little children in the car. I know that there are some drivers out there that can piss you off in a heartbeat when driving. If you were educating someone on how to handle road rage, what would you say? (Especially gun owners).
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That was pretty stupid to do such a thing with your family. Driving around in Los Angeles, I just try to signal, and not to make any sudden lane changes, be courteous. I find out that doing all of that "funny driving," and you get to your destination only 5-10 minutes sooner, if that much.
Link Posted: 7/13/2001 8:44:48 PM EDT
This guy was lucky, two people died in this incident. The link is gone because it is too old, but the story is true. ==================================================== LA Times http://www.latimes.com/news/state/20010527/t000044494.html Sunday, May 27, 2001 A Moment of Road Rage Changes Lives Forever By PETER H. KING SACRAMENTO--This one goes out to the hotheads of the highway, to the road warriors who approach driving as if it were competitive blood sport, who react with shouted obscenities and shaken fists to every brush and near-miss. Consider it a lesson in how rapidly stakes can escalate, how quickly a routine urban encounter can tumble out of control. It was three weeks ago today, the first Sunday of May, a little before noon. Headed east on U.S. 50 in a sedan were Timothy and Nancy Mann and their 28-year-old son, Michael. To celebrate her birthday, Nancy Mann had been taken out for crepes. Now the family was headed home. Donald R. Bell and his 15-year-old son also were on the road that day, looking for a hobby shop. Their plan was to repair the boy's motorized scooter and then go to a shooting range for some target practice. That, the attorney would say later, explained the pistol Bell was carrying in his pocket. Bell had been given faulty directions. He left U.S. 50, realized he was headed into heavy surface street traffic, decided to hop back on and drive east to the next exit. This was at Sunrise Boulevard, on the eastern side of metropolitan Sacramento, where the Sierra foothills begin to come into view. There's a big billboard near the onramp, advertising a cellular telephone service. "Decisions, Decisions, Decisions," the sign says. As Bell pulled his pickup into traffic on the six-lane highway, he apparently cut in front of the Mann vehicle. Later he would say he thought the sedan had revved up and closed in on him. Nancy Mann would offer a different account, maintaining that Bell had forced her husband to slam on the brakes. Of course, such particulars would make little difference in a saner society, in a society where soft words like "merge" and "yield" still carried meaning. After the near-miss, the motorists found themselves alongside each other. Apparently neither of them--Mann a 53-year-old lineman for the municipal power district, Bell a 52-year-old construction worker for the port--could let it go. There were harsh words shouted. There were hand gestures flashed. And then the Mann vehicle pulled away, and it all might have been over. Three miles later the Manns exited at Hazel Avenue. Bell did the same, still looking, he would explain later, for that hobby shop. He stopped his truck at the offramp signal about 20 feet behind the Manns. Both drivers got out. Nancy Mann heard Bell taunting, "Come on, come on." Other witnesses heard him telling Mann: "Get back in your car. Get back in your car." The pistol came out. Mann approached Bell. The gun now was aimed at Mann's chest. Accounts vary, but Mann either took a roundhouse swing at Bell or made a grab for the gun. Bell was struck. The gun went off. Mann fell to the ground, shot in the head. "You killed him!" Nancy Mann heard Bell's 15-year-old boy shout from the truck. She watched her own son try to clear the blood out of his father's mouth. "My husband really looked blue," she would tell an officer moments
Link Posted: 7/13/2001 8:45:34 PM EDT
later. By now an ambulance crew was carrying away her husband. "Is he dead? Oh, please God. Is he all right? Where are they taking him? I can't believe this is happening. We were just out today to celebrate my birthday. We were just having a nice Sunday brunch. Is my husband dead?" He was. The story, though, does not end there. Bell, who insisted he never meant to shoot Mann, was arrested for investigation of manslaughter. He spent a night in the County Jail and then posted bail. He was worried by reports that prosecutors had not ruled out bumping up the charges to murder. A Vietnam veteran, Bell had been exposed to Agent Orange. He told his attorney that he had developed lymphoma. He said he did not want to die in prison. Last Sunday, a few minutes after 10 a.m., a 911 dispatcher took a call from a cellular telephone user, which by routine was recorded on tape. An abridged transcript follows. Dispatcher: 911. Caller: Uh. My name is Donald R. Bell. I was involved in that Hazel incident that happened two weeks ago. Dispatcher: Uh, which Hazel incident, sir? Bell: The fatality, the shooting. Dispatcher: Uh-huh. Bell: I am heading out there right now. And I am going to serve justice on myself. Dispatcher, excitedly: What are you going to do? Bell, softly: I am going to kill myself. Bell spoke mostly in a dull, flat monotone, his voice breaking only once or twice. He gave the female dispatcher telephone numbers where his wife and a stepson could be reached. She tried to talk him down and, at the same time, coax out his whereabouts. Bell: I'm one mile from Hazel. Dispatcher: OK, hold on, hold on, hold on. Are you eastbound or westbound? Bell: I'm going east. Dispatcher: OK, you are eastbound. But why? Why? Why? Bell: I just want to say. . . . Dispatcher: OK-- Bell: I am so sorry for everything that has happened. Dispatcher: And everybody understands that. Everybody understands that. Everybody understands that. But that's no reason to go do this. Bell: Yes, it is. Dispatcher: What kind of vehicle are you in? Bell: I have brought such terrible misery. Dispatcher: Right, right. Donald-- Bell: I acted in self-defense. . . . Dispatcher: OK. Now. OK, Donald. I understand everything that you are saying. But I really don't think that that's a good idea, because it is just going to add to everything. You don't want your wife to have to go through more, right? Bell: It's killing us right now. Dispatcher: Right, but just, you know, it can all be taken care of. Bell: I just ask God for his forgiveness. Dispatcher: He will. He will. Bell: He won't. Dispatcher: He will. Bell, audibly exhaling: I am here. The telephone signal went to dial tone. Bell had hung up. The dispatcher dialed back Bell's cell number. The telephone rang four times
Link Posted: 7/13/2001 8:46:28 PM EDT
before a computerized voice answered: Hello. The PCS subscriber . . . is currently unavailable. Please record your message after the tone. . . . Bell had parked his truck at the top of the Hazel Avenue offramp. Shortly after Mann had been killed, somebody had placed a small pile of river stones and paper flowers at the exit ramp. Now witnesses saw Bell walk over to the makeshift memorial and sit down. It was there he took his life with a single shot to the head. Copyright 2001 Los Angeles Times
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