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Posted: 6/29/2001 8:07:40 AM EST
I am not a lawyer, so please don't take my opinion as gospel. Yesterday's ruling in the California Supreme Court appears to me to do only one thing - It prevents the Attorney General from adding vague items like "AK-47 series" and "AR-15 series" to the list of arms defined as "assault weapons" under the Roberti-Roos Assault Weapons Control Act of 1989. That means (IMHO) a stripped AR lower receiver that is not of a banned make and model should be legal, much as they were during the first several months of 2000. Again, I am not a lawyer but it appears that the door is now open to obtain an AR-15 legally in California. Here's how it could happen: - Buy a stripped lower receiver of a non-listed brand. I won't give any examples because Mr. Lockyer can do his own homework. - Put it in storage and wait for it to be listed as an assault weapon. - Register it. The state will have to grant a grace period for people to register newly-listed items. - Assemble to your heart's content. This is exactly what I did to obtain an on-book AR during the year 2000. The only way this method could fail would be if the AG never lists your lower receiver. An alternative method would be to buy a non-listed model and assemble it (post-ban of course) all the way except for the pistol grip. Use a sawed-off pistol grip until the make and model get listed, then register per above.
Link Posted: 6/29/2001 9:17:47 AM EST
As I posted on another thread, I wonder what will happen with the AR/AKs bought after 1999 but before Aug 16th and registered. Will the registration still be honored? Unless the AG decides to add more rifles by name to the list I would be worried about my Y2K bought AR being recognized as an assault weapon. Seems like a SKS senario in the making all over again.
Link Posted: 6/29/2001 9:27:39 AM EST
Originally Posted By California Kid: I am not a lawyer, so please don't take my opinion as gospel.
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I think you have a pretty good handle on it. I came to the same conclusions.
Link Posted: 6/29/2001 9:31:49 AM EST
I would welcome a confrontation with them over my Y2K AR-15. There is no f***ing way I will sell it "back" to them or turn it in.
Link Posted: 6/29/2001 9:43:49 AM EST
Originally Posted By Atencio: As I posted on another thread, I wonder what will happen with the AR/AKs bought after 1999 but before Aug 16th and registered. Will the registration still be honored? Unless the AG decides to add more rifles by name to the list I would be worried about my Y2K bought AR being recognized as an assault weapon. Seems like a SKS senario in the making all over again.
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Woo hoo! Yo sends in yo registration, yo takes yo chances!
Link Posted: 6/29/2001 9:58:38 AM EST
How to...? Simple: Don't even try...just MOVE! I live in Virginia, a freedom-loving Commonwealth and I speak from one who has been there...done that, having lived in LaLa Land for most of my life. Never again. I don't have ANY problems owning, toting around, modifying (Within federal guidlines...of course!) my Little Black Rifle. You shouldn't either but the Libs took control out there and you're stuck. Too bad...but good luck anyway. [uzi]
Link Posted: 6/29/2001 10:06:18 AM EST
[Last Edit: 6/29/2001 10:04:41 AM EST by CalGat]
Gee Wilde. very brave suggestion. Run Away? NEVER! Better to stand and fight than run like a coward. Besides if they can bend the laws around why shouldn't we? Are you an american?
Link Posted: 6/29/2001 10:15:01 AM EST
California Kid, That is exactly how to have a legal AR15 clone, just as in 2000. You know they will add a pile by name, and then they have to allow you to register it by law. At worst case, as long as it's not violating SB23, you can still have it if they do nothing. Time to stock-up.
Link Posted: 6/29/2001 10:20:04 AM EST
Does this mean we can purchase an AR15.com LEGP? The receiver name is unique.
Link Posted: 6/29/2001 10:28:47 AM EST
[Last Edit: 6/29/2001 10:27:31 AM EST by AR15fan]
Originally Posted By Chaingun: Does this mean we can purchase an AR15.com LEGP? The receiver name is unique.
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YES! As long as the pistol grip is removed to comply with SB23. Eagle Arms AR10 will be legal too if the pistol grip is removed.
Link Posted: 6/29/2001 10:34:09 AM EST
Originally Posted By AR15fan:
Originally Posted By Chaingun: Does this mean we can purchase an AR15.com LEGP? The receiver name is unique.
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YES! As long as the pistol grip is removed to comply with SB23. Eagle Arms AR10 will be legal too if the pistol grip is removed.
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2 please!
Link Posted: 6/29/2001 10:40:53 AM EST
I wonder how many California gun dealers are going to be willing to hand their asses out in the wind to sell you a gun in this manner. Do I see trips to Arizona, Nevada, and Oregon in our California contingent's future?
Link Posted: 6/29/2001 10:44:58 AM EST
Originally Posted By Boomer: I wonder how many California gun dealers are going to be willing to hand their asses out in the wind to sell you a gun in this manner.
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Entreprise is selling complete rifles minus the pistol grip out of their Proshop. Lots of places are selling FAL receivers.
Link Posted: 6/29/2001 10:47:56 AM EST
How much do stripped lowers go for these days? If I can legally buy one I definately will. I've been wanting an AR for years.
Link Posted: 6/29/2001 11:07:08 AM EST
wow...the chance to actually obtain an AR here in PRK was enough to make my lazy ass stop lurking and register for a user name. I too have been wanting an AR for years; I didn't turn 18 until 1996, but certain uncooperative elements in the family were completely against the idea of me owning firearms. I wasn't following legislation closely enough and therefore missed the deadline of last year. One of the more unfortunate mistakes I've made. I've only recently been trying to learn about the nuances of California AR restrictions (trying like many others to find a way to avail myself of my constitutional rights) so I don't know if I'm quite clear on the situation here. Let me see if I've got this straight: The recent ruling allows me to purchase an AR style rifle that wasn't specifically banned by the 1989 law. But, because of Satan'sBill 23 I'm still limited on how I go about that? I can buy an AR style rifle that's complete minus the pistol grip, because if it had a pistol grip it and the detachable magazine it's classified under sb23 as an Evil and Othewise Dangerous to Fascist/Totalitarians Assault Weapon illegal. So how does buying a stripped lower get around this? Because it's not a complete gun? And furthermore, where can I buy these?
Link Posted: 6/29/2001 11:16:30 AM EST
Originally Posted By LWilde: How to...? Simple: Don't even try...just MOVE! I live in Virginia, a freedom-loving Commonwealth and I speak from one who has been there...done that, having lived in LaLa Land for most of my life. Never again. I don't have ANY problems owning, toting around, modifying (Within federal guidlines...of course!) my Little Black Rifle. You shouldn't either but the Libs took control out there and you're stuck. Too bad...but good luck anyway. [uzi]
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What he said. Here in the Commonwealth of Virginia you stroll in, fill out DA PAPERS (1 State, 1 Federal), they call the State Police on instant check, you pays your money, and you stroll out with your AR-15 Rifle. Couldn't be easier...unless you are a felon, then you got REAL problems.
Link Posted: 6/29/2001 11:29:07 AM EST
Long Dong Silver, My understanding is yes, you can buy a complete rifle minus the pistol grip, as long as its not one of the models banned by name, such as the Colt SP-1. I want to get a stripped lower because I dont have $600+ to lay down right now for a whole rifle. The serialized receiver is considered the firearm under Federal law.
Link Posted: 6/29/2001 11:37:53 AM EST
[Last Edit: 6/29/2001 11:35:24 AM EST by California_Kid]
Long Dong Silver, Welcome to the group. I agree with w00dy, but would caution that the rifle sans pistol grip would have to be a POST-[federal]ban configuration. A flash hider would put you back in the AW category per SB-23. I don't know whether or not the R-R list of AR-15 type rifles includes all pre-bans. If there are any out there that aren't on the list, they are probably pretty scarce. I find this situation darkly amusing. The SC decision puts the Attorney General in an infinite game of "catch-up" with AK and AR manufacturers. It's only a matter of time before the Don Peratas up in Excremento start screaming about this "loophole" and what new laws we need to plug it.
Link Posted: 6/29/2001 11:53:13 AM EST
[url]http://caag.state.ca.us/firearms/infobuls/kaslist.pdf[/url] I found this list of AK & AR makes and models. Is there anything that isn't on this list? I was hoping to get a Bushmaster lower but they're on the list too. Or has this list been nullified?
Link Posted: 6/29/2001 12:00:06 PM EST
[Last Edit: 6/29/2001 11:58:15 AM EST by Imbroglio]
The list has been nullified, as roberti-roos relies solely upon make and models names, these were not legally added to the list.
Link Posted: 6/29/2001 12:42:25 PM EST
[Last Edit: 6/29/2001 12:41:52 PM EST by California_Kid]
The ruling, which is being spun in the LA times et al as Roberti-Roos being "upheld", means that the AG can add only specific makes and models to the list. The part of the law that was not upheld is the part that says a firearm that is substantially similar to a banned model is also banned. I haven't seen the text of any of this, but it sounds like a blow was dealt to PC Section: ------------- begin quote ----------- 12276. As used in this chapter, "assault weapon" shall mean the following designated semiautomatic firearms: (a) All of the following specified rifles: (1) All AK series including, but not limited to, the models identified as follows:... ...(5) Colt AR-15 series.... [...] (e) The term "series" includes all other models that are only variations, with minor differences, of those models listed in subdivision (a), regardless of the manufacturer.... ---------------- end quote ---------------- The key word is "series". I believe the court ruled that is too vague; that only specific makes and models need to be listed. The AG cannot simply wave his hand and declare a rifle to be an "AK series" weapon. He has to go through a formal filing process. I hope some real lawyers jump in here and clarify things for us.
Link Posted: 6/29/2001 12:59:30 PM EST
Me too. I have enough money to buy a stripped lower, all I need is to know if its legal and I'll have one ordered.
Link Posted: 6/29/2001 1:12:01 PM EST
Does this ruling apply only to brand new "clones"? What about Pre-ban stripped lowers that are from an AR clone manufacturer? I would buy a couple stripped clone lowers, although the official AR15.com LEGP M4gery is what I have in mind. Maybe I should email Lawrence over at Entreprise and see if they are willing to start selling gripless AR's too. :D
Link Posted: 6/29/2001 2:02:36 PM EST
[Last Edit: 6/29/2001 2:26:10 PM EST by Paul]
[url]http://www.theaskguys.com/%7Epics/bump.jpg[/url] (edited to change image to link to what looks to be a guy sticking something illegal up his nose - how this related to the topic is beyond me - Paul)
Link Posted: 6/29/2001 2:18:14 PM EST
man it's so hard to keep up with all the changes in the law. This is so BS. Get them while you can, if you can. Still not sure... confused in PRK.
Link Posted: 6/29/2001 3:17:20 PM EST
[Last Edit: 6/29/2001 3:16:18 PM EST by f1reverb]
The situation is essentialy the same as last year before the Kasler decision was made. Read my Calnra.org story from August 3, 2000, on how to take advantage of the AW loophole: [url]http://www.calnra.org/080300hector.htm[/url] The dealers who sold stripped-lowers last year are your best choice, such as Hector (no relation of course) at Cold War Relics in Pacific Grove. Also check the AR15.com archives and search for dealers who sold stripped-lowers last year until the August 16 Kasler decision.
Link Posted: 6/29/2001 11:39:28 PM EST
Originally Posted By Imbrog|io: The list has been nullified.
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Wrong! The Add On list was upheld and is intact. The only portion of the add on list eliminated was the portions that did not give a specific model number. Such as "AK Hunter" rather than the correct VEPR & SIAGA designations.
Link Posted: 6/30/2001 7:31:24 AM EST
btt
Link Posted: 6/30/2001 7:46:24 AM EST
Originally Posted By Long Dong Silver: I too have been wanting an AR for years; I didn't turn 18 until 1996, but certain uncooperative elements in the family were completely against the idea of me owning firearms.
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OT:These firearms laws are "aimed" squarely at the younger generation. The older folks already have ours(they would take ours too except there is the slight problem of consitituion standing in the liberal's way), it is people like yourself that Calif. Democrats are going after. It took me a long time to learn this, but you must stay up with all of the firearms laws and regs etc and fight them whenever you can, because when they affect you personally you are pretty much dead-meat. Unfortunately many young people learn about it too late.
Link Posted: 6/30/2001 10:07:45 AM EST
would a kind soul please message me w/ the names of some stripped ar lowers that aren't banned in Kali? alphabeta121
Link Posted: 6/30/2001 10:53:09 AM EST
[Last Edit: 6/30/2001 10:50:31 AM EST by Chaingun]
The LEGP uses the Rock River Arms lower, BUT I'm wondering what name markings are on it. It's possible the additional AR15.COM name is a new type of receiver not listed. Types of RRA: 1) Standard A2 2) CAR A2 3) Standard A4 flattop 4) CAR A4 flatttop 5) NM A2 - DCM legal (Kal-can DOJ idots) 6) LE tactical carbine I too would like to know what's available, we have time before the list is updated? (forgot doj)
Link Posted: 6/30/2001 3:30:30 PM EST
Originally Posted By Imbrog|io: The list has been nullified, as roberti-roos relies solely upon make and models names, these were not legally added to the list.
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That's how I interpret it. If this is correct, the market is practically wide open. They'll probably keep everything all f*****g confusing until the A.G. can issue a new list.
Link Posted: 6/30/2001 5:41:23 PM EST
Hey guys can anyone give me the phone number and address of the Cold War place with the stripped lowers?? This is the opportunity i've been waiting for, just like the guys before me, i'm only in my 20's also and we're the foundation of the next generation that will be fighting for Second Amendment Rights!
Link Posted: 6/30/2001 6:28:32 PM EST
Look at all the new posts from members in occupied kommiefornia!! If you REALY want to own ARs etc, I would suggest you work VERY hard to unelect the bastards in the state legislature and the governors throne who want to take your rights.Join NRA,SAF,CCRKBA,CRPA,etc. then become politicaly active. Oh!!, this thread is about AR purchases in PRK. Sorry wrong thread. Good Luck!![:D]
Link Posted: 7/1/2001 7:04:28 AM EST
Okay, I'll bite: If someone comes up with a model *not* on the list but soon to be, please email it to me. I'd like to build a .50 but not with my one and only DPMS lower. Thanks
Link Posted: 7/1/2001 7:08:21 AM EST
El Kabong, DPMS makes a CA legal single shot AR lower that would work for a .50 upper. It's got all the holes in the right places, but doesn't have a magazine well.
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