How safe are CCWers?

[ARCHIVED THREAD] - How safe are CCWers?

Posted: 4/18/2007 11:10:58 AM EDT

I'm having a discussion (argument) with the girlfriend, and I know I've seen the statistics somewhere that show that CCW holders are much safer than the rest of the population, but I need some hard evidence. Any help?

Posted: 4/18/2007 11:14:22 AM EDT

[#1]

http://www.gunowners.org/sk0802.htm

Posted: 4/18/2007 11:17:22 AM EDT

[#2]

I was reading that in NC, the crime rate amongst CCW holders is lower than the crime rates of NC police officers

Posted: 4/18/2007 11:25:19 AM EDT

[#3]

I am not aware of any credible study in which arrest records were compared to CCW records. We do not ask at the time of arrest or booking if the suspect currently holds a CCW permit. So i'm not even sure how the data would be gathered.

Does the mere possession of a CCW permit make you somehow less likely to drive drunk or beat your wife? I dont know.

Posted: 4/18/2007 11:29:48 AM EDT

[#4]

Quoted:
I am not aware of any credible study in which arrest records were compared to CCW records. We do not ask at the time of arrest or booking if the suspect currently holds a CCW permit. So i'm not even sure how the data would be gathered.

Does the mere possession of a CCW permit make you somehow less likely to drive drunk or beat your wife? I dont know.

If you love your toys, it does or at least it should

Posted: 4/18/2007 11:30:58 AM EDT

[#5]

Quoted:
I am not aware of any credible study in which arrest records were compared to CCW records. We do not ask at the time of arrest or booking if the suspect currently holds a CCW permit. So i'm not even sure how the data would be gathered.

Does the mere possession of a CCW permit make you somehow less likely to drive drunk or beat your wife? I dont know.

I'm speaking in terms of shootings, not of drunk driving or any other crime. She believes that putting more guns out there will increase the chances of an accident or heat-of-the-moment shooting.

Posted: 4/18/2007 11:33:36 AM EDT

[#6]

Quoted:

Quoted:
I am not aware of any credible study in which arrest records were compared to CCW records. We do not ask at the time of arrest or booking if the suspect currently holds a CCW permit. So i'm not even sure how the data would be gathered.

Does the mere possession of a CCW permit make you somehow less likely to drive drunk or beat your wife? I dont know.

I'm speaking in terms of shootings, not of drunk driving or any other crime. She believes that putting more guns out there will increase the chances of an accident or heat-of-the-moment shooting.

That is the argument always put forth by the antis- and it is always proven wrong.

In the debate before MI turned to a "shall-issue" state there were all kinds of whackjobs on TV claiming that there would be a bloodbath, road-rage shootings, all kinds of people dead...

What happened? Nothing. CCW allows you to defend yourself. While there are incidents of people with CCWs doing stupid things, it's rare...

Posted: 4/18/2007 11:34:15 AM EDT

[#7]

Quoted:

Quoted:
I am not aware of any credible study in which arrest records were compared to CCW records. We do not ask at the time of arrest or booking if the suspect currently holds a CCW permit. So i'm not even sure how the data would be gathered.

Does the mere possession of a CCW permit make you somehow less likely to drive drunk or beat your wife? I dont know.

I'm speaking in terms of shootings, not of drunk driving or any other crime. She believes that putting more guns out there will increase the chances of an accident or heat-of-the-moment shooting.

I wouldn't let her near your firearms if I were you. The folks who believe that are usually projecting their inability to control impulses onto others.

Posted: 4/18/2007 11:37:21 AM EDT

[#8]

tag

Posted: 4/18/2007 4:02:23 PM EDT

[#9]

Bump while the site is busy.

Posted: 4/18/2007 4:47:32 PM EDT

[#10]

Safer than cops, that's for damn sure.

Posted: 4/18/2007 4:53:12 PM EDT

[#11]

Ya know, there has been a few times where my ID wasn't in my wallet and I had to use my CCW for ID and I get denied everytime, Im told its not a valid ID.

I tell them, illegal aliens are allowed Oregon Drivers license and yet my CCW ID tells you the following over a standard drivers license ID:

a. I'm a US citizen
b. It has my actual address and not my PO BOX
c. I have no felonys or demestic volience charges
d. I pay my taxes

All I get is blank stares and a "sorry".

Carrying around a CCW card is basically telling whoever see's it that so far you've been a good citizen.

Posted: 4/19/2007 1:51:40 AM EDT

[#12]

Carrying around a CCW card is basically telling whoever see's it that so far you havent got caught.

Posted: 4/19/2007 1:59:23 AM EDT

[#13]

Quoted:
...CCW holders are much safer than the rest of the population...

How would you know how safe they are?

It is CONCEALED after all!

Posted: 4/19/2007 2:11:02 AM EDT

[#14]

Quoted:

Carrying around a CCW card is basically telling whoever see's it that so far you havent got caught.

cynical cop ?

nice "us -vs- them" mentality

way to be part of the community there champ.
yes I am LEO too.

Posted: 4/19/2007 2:11:54 AM EDT

[#15]

Quoted:

Quoted:
I am not aware of any credible study in which arrest records were compared to CCW records. We do not ask at the time of arrest or booking if the suspect currently holds a CCW permit. So i'm not even sure how the data would be gathered.

Does the mere possession of a CCW permit make you somehow less likely to drive drunk or beat your wife? I dont know.

I'm speaking in terms of shootings, not of drunk driving or any other crime. She believes that putting more guns out there will increase the chances of an accident or heat-of-the-moment shooting.

I wouldn't let her near your firearms if I were you. The folks who believe that are usually projecting their inability to control impulses onto others.

BINGO !

Posted: 4/19/2007 2:34:30 AM EDT

[#16]

Nothing credible to cite, but it seems to me that people who LEGALLY go through all the BS to carry concealed are far less likely to have intent of a detrimental nature. It's not only easier to buy an illegal firearm, it's cheaper.

So is she talking about CCW holders or just people who carry their weapons concealed versus out in the open?

Posted: 4/19/2007 5:05:45 AM EDT

[#17]

Quoted:
I'm having a discussion (argument) with the girlfriend, and I know I've seen the statistics somewhere that show that CCW holders are much safer than the rest of the population, but I need some hard evidence. Any help?

In Texas they carefully followed the records of CCW holders after shall-issue legislation was signed by George Bush.

After 5 or 6 years they abandoned the research because they found that CCW holders were less likely to commit crimes than the population at large...including stuff as small as speeding.

CCW holders in other studies have been shown to have a lower crime rate than police.

Posted: 4/19/2007 5:06:55 AM EDT

[#18]

Quoted:
Does the mere possession of a CCW permit make you somehow less likely to drive drunk or beat your wife? I dont know.

No.

Nevertheless, the data seems to show that people with CCW permits seem to be the diametric opposite of criminal types.

Posted: 4/19/2007 5:08:19 AM EDT

[#19]

Quoted:
I'm speaking in terms of shootings, not of drunk driving or any other crime.

The reason drunk driving and speeding is mentioned is because the various studies (like the Texas study) have found no likelihood for accidental or malicious shootings.

Posted: 4/19/2007 5:09:41 AM EDT

[#20]

Quoted:

Carrying around a CCW card is basically telling whoever see's it that so far you havent got caught.

Dude.....

Not cool.

Not cool AT ALL.

I haven't been "caught" because I have never done anything more criminal than speeding.

Posted: 4/19/2007 5:13:16 AM EDT

[#21]

In 1998 and again in 1999, the Violence Policy Center, a research organization opposed to concealed carry, released reports highlighting the numbers of Texas' concealed carry licensees who have been arrested since the law went into effect. Using Texas Department of Public Safety records, the center pointed out that Texas licensees had been arrested for nearly two crimes a day through 1998 - with more than one arrest each month for a violent crime.

In isolation these numbers paint a troubling picture. However, the reports are misleading for several reasons. First, they do not separate crimes that involve concealed weapons from those that don't. In addition, they ignore the fact that more than 55 percent of licensees arrested for violent crimes are cleared of the crimes for which they are arrested. Most tellingly, when the arrest rates of Texas' concealed carry holders are compared with those of the general population, licensees are found to be more law-abiding than the average person.

In an unpublished report, engineering statistician William Sturdevant found that concealed carry licensees had arrest rates far lower than the general population for every category of crime. For instance:

* Licensees were 5.7 times less likely to be arrested for violent offenses than the general public - 127 per 100,000 population versus 730 per 100,000.

* Licensees were 14 times less likely to be arrested for nonviolent offenses than the general public - 386 per 100,000 population versus 5,212 per 100,000.

* Further, the general public is 1.4 times more likely to be arrested for murder than licensees [see Figure I], and no licensee had been arrested for negligent manslaughter.

This is unsurprising, since the standards for getting a concealed carry license in Texas are the strictest in the nation. One must be at least 21 years of age, submit a photo and fingerprints for a background check, pay a $140 fee and take ten to fourteen hours of coursework. In addition, applicants must pass both a written test covering laws pertaining to deadly force and gun safety and a shooting accuracy test. Even with all of these hurdles, more than 200,000 Texans have received concealed carry permits.

Shootings involving licensees are rare. However, most permit holders who have wounded or killed purported assailants have not been arrested because the authorities have determined that the shootings were justified. For instance:

* Licensee Jim Eichelberg ended James Turner's brief crime spree when, in an exchange of gunfire, he shot Turner as Turner tried to carjack Eichelberg at gunpoint. Earlier, Turner had robbed another driver.

* In 1996, licensee Becky Shelton shot and killed a man who was attempting to rob and shoot her husband in their Richardson jewelry store.

Of the concealed carry licensees who have been arrested for a murder, several have been no-billed by grand juries that determined the killings were lawful. Gordon Hale III was the first Texas licensee to kill an assailant using his concealed firearm - and the first licensee arrested. Hale had been involved in a minor noninjury traffic accident that turned into an assault when the other driver, Kenny Tavai, punched Hale repeatedly in the face and then attempted to drag him out of his car through the window. Hale fired his weapon in response, killing Tavai. The Dallas district attorney's office charged Hale with murder for using what it considered excessive force in defending against Tavai. The grand jury believed that Hale justifiably feared for his life and refused to indict him.

Of the six licensees who were arrested for murder or nonnegligent manslaughter and brought to trial, twice as many (four) were found to have acted in self-defense as were found guilty of murder (two).

www.ncpa.org/ba/ba324/ba324.html

[ARCHIVED THREAD] - How safe are CCWers?

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