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Posted: 9/2/2005 5:27:29 AM EDT
I don't feel like dropping $50.00 or more on a vertical foregrip if it really only adds to the rifle. I would like to know if the grip actually has a purpose for the semi-auto M4orgery. Thanks.
Link Posted: 9/2/2005 5:28:17 AM EDT

Originally Posted By tpsh:
I don't feel like dropping $50.00 or more on a vertical foregrip if it really only adds to the rifle. I would like to know if the grip actually has a purpose for the semi-auto M4orgery. Thanks.



It isn't necessary at all.

Lots of fellows don't use them and do just fine.
Link Posted: 9/2/2005 5:28:19 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/2/2005 5:28:38 AM EDT by olyarms]
If you hold a rifle up often it is an arm saver.

It makes it very natural. And helps to control muzzle rise.
Link Posted: 9/2/2005 5:51:11 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/2/2005 5:58:51 AM EDT by mr_wilson]

Originally Posted By John_Wayne777:
It isn't necessary at all. Lots of fellows don't use them and do just fine.



This used to be me........

Then I got a KAC RAS II show show special, I have since changed my tune.

Biggest advantage became apparent the day I tested a Beta Mag, sure does make handling the M4 easier w/ the Beta installed.

While I haven't ran out and bought V-grips for my other two M4s, I do keep and use the one I got on my go-to M4.

IMO it makes handling the rifle easier, balances the rifle well for onehand on the V-grip handling, makes me steadier allowing more precise aiming, which places round more accurately on target, (especially from an off-hand standing stance).

Mike

ps - and no this is not on a FA weapon
Link Posted: 9/2/2005 5:53:14 AM EDT
I'm wrestling with that one myself. I will probably end up with one someday.

BTW How sturdy are the heat shield Picatinny rail mounts for grips, lights, etc.?
Link Posted: 9/2/2005 5:54:46 AM EDT
I have 2 of them, I do not know where they are...I used them before, didn't like. If I find them today I wil IM you and give you one.
Link Posted: 9/2/2005 5:56:49 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/2/2005 6:00:27 AM EDT by tpsh]
Thanks.
Link Posted: 9/2/2005 6:00:46 AM EDT
I will look today...Do not scramble off to buy one.

Chris

Link Posted: 9/2/2005 6:01:44 AM EDT
Link Posted: 9/2/2005 6:03:46 AM EDT
I tried one, and in the end I ended up with a set up the slim old school carbine handguards on my M-4. <ost of my use is vehicles and manuevering in and out of them, and the foregrip tended to be in the way.

YMMV
Link Posted: 9/2/2005 6:04:46 AM EDT

Originally Posted By macman37:
I'm wrestling with that one myself. I will probably end up with one someday.

BTW How sturdy are the heat shield Picatinny rail mounts for grips, lights, etc.?



I had one that I ordered from Lauer Custom for my Rock River midlength. While the rail itself was solid, I found that the handguards flexed if you put any torque on the vertical handguard. Not to say they wouldn't hold, but it was distracting.
Link Posted: 9/2/2005 6:06:11 AM EDT
Link Posted: 9/2/2005 6:07:22 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Garand_Shooter:
I tried one, and in the end I ended up with a set up the slim old school carbine handguards on my M-4. <ost of my use is vehicles and manuevering in and out of them, and the foregrip tended to be in the way.

YMMV


I do live the slim handguards over the big old m4 handguards, But I have girlie man hands.
Link Posted: 9/2/2005 6:09:01 AM EDT
It all depends on personal preference. Some like them. Some hate them. I personally prefer not having a vertical foregrip. I find that in many situations, they limit what you can do with the rifle and the number of ways you can hold it.
Link Posted: 9/2/2005 6:10:20 AM EDT
Link Posted: 9/2/2005 6:11:32 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Czexybeast:

Originally Posted By macman37:
I'm wrestling with that one myself. I will probably end up with one someday.

BTW How sturdy are the heat shield Picatinny rail mounts for grips, lights, etc.?



I had one that I ordered from Lauer Custom for my Rock River midlength. While the rail itself was solid, I found that the handguards flexed if you put any torque on the vertical handguard. Not to say they wouldn't hold, but it was distracting.



Hmmm... Good info. thanks.

I might go with a barrel mount for a Sure-Fire and put the tape switch on the handguard itself...
Link Posted: 9/2/2005 6:14:33 AM EDT
Try one out if possible.
I thought that I didn't need one, but I borrowed one for 6 days, then ended out buying 2 for myself.
I might get flamed for saying this, but I recomend an airsoft vertical foregrip for this.
The quality is the same as far as I can tell, and it is not a part which requires high precision.
And the best is that they are priced about $15 for the basic model.
Link Posted: 9/2/2005 6:15:11 AM EDT
I've been meaning to try one to see if I like it or not.

I just can't bring myself to hand over $50 for s simple piece of plastic that should cost less than $20.

Ed
Link Posted: 9/2/2005 6:17:02 AM EDT
I really like them. They increase control, comfort, and maneuverability.
Link Posted: 9/2/2005 6:19:47 AM EDT
I have been debating this myself.Came close to buying one the other day and using one of those bolt on rails on my m4 guards.The more I thought about it I got the feeling that the thing would move around to much and really bother me.Am I wrong,does anyone run this set up,if so how is it.
Link Posted: 9/2/2005 6:23:09 AM EDT
If you aren't shooting full auto or aren't holding your rifle up for extended periods of time, they are unnecessary.
Link Posted: 9/2/2005 6:23:19 AM EDT
You won't be tactical unless you have a foregrip, surefire, grenade launcher, laser, PEQ-4, bayonet, night-vision, pez-dispenser, toilet paper dispenser, and an ATM machine mounted on your fore-grip.

Link Posted: 9/2/2005 6:39:22 AM EDT
Link Posted: 9/2/2005 6:52:43 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Charging_Handle:
It all depends on personal preference. Some like them. Some hate them. I personally prefer not having a vertical foregrip. I find that in many situations, they limit what you can do with the rifle and the number of ways you can hold it.




Is the hand stuck to the grip?

Couldn't you just let go of it and put your hand somewhere else if you needed to?

just wonderin'
Link Posted: 9/2/2005 7:00:39 AM EDT
I have them on some of my rifles, I like them but watch mounting on non free floating hanguards my M4orgery will change point of impact if you get to he-manish on it.
Link Posted: 9/2/2005 7:01:44 AM EDT
They are not really necessary, but they is soooooooooooooooooooooo tactical.
Link Posted: 9/2/2005 7:02:51 AM EDT
I have been ok without one, Id like one though
Link Posted: 9/2/2005 7:04:31 AM EDT

Originally Posted By xxTAPxx:

Originally Posted By Charging_Handle:
It all depends on personal preference. Some like them. Some hate them. I personally prefer not having a vertical foregrip. I find that in many situations, they limit what you can do with the rifle and the number of ways you can hold it.




Is the hand stuck to the grip?

Couldn't you just let go of it and put your hand somewhere else if you needed to?

just wonderin'



Lots of times I like to take a rest with the forearm resting on something. I've found this to be easier without the handgrip. It's much less stable (especially on impromtu rests such as tree limbs, etc) than with the grip.

Link Posted: 9/2/2005 7:43:45 AM EDT
They are a great help with muzzle control when you are shooting from the hip and swivelling from side to side, with the selector set on "bullet hose".

Some of my rigs have them, some don't.
Link Posted: 9/2/2005 8:15:18 AM EDT
Link Posted: 9/2/2005 8:19:42 AM EDT
Link Posted: 9/2/2005 8:25:46 AM EDT
I guess it depends on what type of shooting you do.

I found that if you're doing the up close and personal stuff they help tremendously. I was using the magwell and was burning my hands on the delta ring. That's when I decided my current build will have one.
Link Posted: 9/2/2005 8:27:12 AM EDT
If you get the tan colored grip it will look marvelous with your khaki 5.11 tactical pants, and combined with a lovely coyote chest rig by a fashionable maker you will the fashionista hit of the range.
Link Posted: 9/2/2005 8:42:29 AM EDT
I had them on two of my rifles. I have since taken them both off. I prefer to hold the upper portion of the magwell if I decide to go vertical as it allows me bring my support arm closer to my body. I feel this gives me more control of the rifle then having my arm extended somewhat.

Funny thing is that all of the guys on our entry team that put them on their rifles, ended up taking them off. It was too easy for something to get hung up on it, such as your sling when you transition. I've also seen it get hung up on the user's Cover 6 vest or the vest (meaning radio wires, hydration system, flex cuffs, gas mask/mag pouches of the guy in front of the user in a stick.

For us, they looked cool, but when working in close proximity with other officers on a team, they did nothing but get in the way.
Link Posted: 9/2/2005 8:46:24 AM EDT
I've got a cheap but good quality vert grip at a gun show for $15.00 bux!!
Link Posted: 9/2/2005 9:00:25 AM EDT
Link Posted: 9/2/2005 9:06:16 AM EDT
I'm trying them on a few of my ARs now (I was a "late adopter" on this one ).

I'm not completely sold yet... but I'm coming around.
Link Posted: 9/2/2005 9:24:48 AM EDT
It all depends on what you want to do with your rifle. If you dont know what a muzzle strike is, and you have no plans to do one, you probably dont need a VFG.
Link Posted: 9/2/2005 10:22:32 AM EDT

Originally Posted By PSYWAR1-0:
It all depends on what you want to do with your rifle. If you dont know what a muzzle strike is, and you have no plans to do one, you probably dont need a VFG.



Nope, no muzzle strikes for me.
Link Posted: 9/2/2005 10:50:57 AM EDT

Originally Posted By dport:
I guess it depends on what type of shooting you do.

I found that if you're doing the up close and personal stuff they help tremendously. I was using the magwell and was burning my hands on the delta ring. That's when I decided my current build will have one.



Great answer!

The VFG's are GREAT if you shoot alot of ammo in a short period of time. They allow for a much cooler (temp wise) hold than the plastic forearm or grabbing at the magazine well.

They are also much easier on your arm muscles if you hold the rifle in low ready alot (typically done in 'urban rifle' type classes/CQB). There is far less stress on your support arm when you use a VFG than if you use the traditional 'marksman' type support hand. In fact a weeks before my first class I strained the muscles in my support arm. By lunch on the first day (of 3) my arm was in pain from having to twist the muscles I injured the week before using the standard hold. I put my VFG back on the carbine and had no more problems - it's stayed on since then.
Link Posted: 9/2/2005 11:03:35 AM EDT
I find that the VFG dramatically improves my hammers, NSRs, and pretty much all of my offhand shooting. When the targets get farther out or I take a knee or go to prone, I put my hand in front of the VFG.
Link Posted: 9/2/2005 11:07:53 AM EDT
The only use I can see for one is possibly better control of the weapon in terms of retention. Other than that and cool factor, they're tits on a bore hog.
Link Posted: 9/2/2005 11:09:40 AM EDT
So here's a question I've pondered from time to time:

Are there any VFGs that will stow in the buttstock trap (assuming anyone is so üntertactical as to still be using the A2 buttstock)?
Link Posted: 9/2/2005 11:14:23 AM EDT
I had to have one....decided I didn't like it and sold it. Since then I keep going back and forth and keep buying them to then again decide that I really don't like them. To me they seem to put the weight of the front end above my fist.....not in my hand. Does that make any sense? It seems more like I am balancing the upper on top of my had.

Anyway...I don't think I like them...even though I keep trying to make myself like them.
Link Posted: 9/2/2005 11:17:11 AM EDT
I put mine as far back on the RAS as I can. Leaves me with most of the forend length to support as normal, but if I ever need the extra bracing to fight muzzle climb for fast follow up shots, it's there. Don't grip the VFG like a pistol grip. use it like a brace.
Link Posted: 9/2/2005 11:21:30 AM EDT

Originally Posted By HK_DUDE:
I had to have one....decided I didn't like it and sold it. Since then I keep going back and forth and keep buying them to then again decide that I really don't like them. To me they seem to put the weight of the front end above my fist.....not in my hand. Does that make any sense? It seems more like I am balancing the upper on top of my had.

Anyway...I don't think I like them...even though I keep trying to make myself like them.



Grip it high and run your thumb up along the rail. It really makes a difference. Hell, the heel of my hand is on the left side rail when I use a VFG.
Link Posted: 9/2/2005 11:26:29 AM EDT
So you guys are using it more like a "Reverse handstop"...kinda, as apposed to actually holding it like you would a pistol grip...wrapping your hand around it......hmmmmm, maybe that is what I am missing.
Link Posted: 9/2/2005 11:30:45 AM EDT
I have a Tango Down VFG that I used on one rifle. I liked it but when I went to shoot the rifle from a bench it got in the way. Tango Down's are a bitch to get off!
Link Posted: 9/2/2005 11:33:20 AM EDT
Don't care for the myself.
Link Posted: 9/2/2005 11:34:20 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/2/2005 11:35:29 AM EDT by wildearp]
I thought them to be unnecessary until I got one. I likee!!

This from a pessimist, cynic, old fucker!

Same thing for the First Samco rear handgrip. A gimmick, I thought. Now I have 6 of them....
Link Posted: 9/2/2005 11:38:19 AM EDT

Originally Posted By HK_DUDE:
So you guys are using it more like a "Reverse handstop"...kinda, as apposed to actually holding it like you would a pistol grip...wrapping your hand around it......hmmmmm, maybe that is what I am missing.


Yep - with pressure pushing straight back (to get the best muzzle control and reduce muzzle rise).

Remember using the VFG isn't about X-ring type marksmanship. It's about putting the bullets into the target(s) quickly and under control.
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