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Posted: 10/1/2004 6:11:57 PM EST
Lets just assume you've had "the right type" of career in the military or LE, and you qualify for one of those $150,000 per year protective services jobs in Iraq. Should you take it?

$150,000/12 = $12,500. per month
$12,500/4 = $3,125. per week
$3,125/6 = $520.83 per day
$520.83/12 = $43.40 per hour.

Oh, and don't forget only the first $80,000 is tax free, and your dependants probably won't be covered by the company's benefit package--so your take-home will actually be lower. [Someone correct my tax free amount (with cite) if wrong. ]

I based these numbers, and the 6 day per week 12 hour per day schedule, on information from friends working there now, salary ranges posted on company sites, and other sources.

So, are you willing to spend your time, at less than $43/hr, in an austere environment, with extreme heat, in a land where US contractors can now be held liable for their actions (Bremer saw to that prior to his hasty departure). Sure, it would probably be really cool to wear adventure gear every day, carry a select-fire AR, and have a pistol on your thigh. The war stories your buddies there could tell you would be cool too. . . . .



. . . . . but in the end, you'd probably realize that statistically the biggest threat you'd face there--an IED of some type--is the kind of threat your adventure clothing, pistol, and AR would be no good against.
Link Posted: 10/1/2004 6:13:23 PM EST
[Last Edit: 10/1/2004 6:15:54 PM EST by fight4yourrights]
Pretty good change, but I hear from some SF friends that the teams are real CF's.


Look at the BlackWater guys that got waxed - drove the same route everyday for weeks? WTF?
Link Posted: 10/1/2004 6:14:21 PM EST
YES
Link Posted: 10/1/2004 6:16:28 PM EST
[Last Edit: 10/1/2004 6:16:46 PM EST by MT_Pockets]
The Social Security Administration says I am worth more dead than alive.

MT
Link Posted: 10/1/2004 6:20:31 PM EST
always wanted to travel
Link Posted: 10/1/2004 6:21:58 PM EST
The moeny is good enough for me, not like I have much going on or really much to lose.
Link Posted: 10/1/2004 6:25:01 PM EST
Hell, I'd do it thats like twice as much as I'm earning now
Link Posted: 10/1/2004 6:25:14 PM EST
Protector, yes.

Protectee, no.
Link Posted: 10/1/2004 6:26:47 PM EST
[Last Edit: 10/1/2004 6:27:31 PM EST by raven]
Maybe if I was a soldier and I was always armed and surrounded by other armed comrades.

Otherwise, NO FUCKING WAY. I'd rather be protected and get $1000/month serving my country than be a sitting duck for $45 a hour.
Link Posted: 10/1/2004 6:28:05 PM EST

Yes, I would in a second. Hell, if my wife would let me, I would join the Marine Corps right now and be paid a whole lot less...


Bigfeet
Link Posted: 10/1/2004 6:28:22 PM EST
[Last Edit: 10/1/2004 6:28:51 PM EST by MDC85]
id join regular army in a second.....god damn critical billet

and yes id take it, because i dont give a shit anymore
Link Posted: 10/1/2004 6:29:49 PM EST
I do the same shit for much less in the Army.

I'd do it. If its all still going on when I ETS in '07 I'll give it a shot. Do it for 6-12 months... get a bunch of money saved up, then use my GI bill for school... sounds good hey.
Link Posted: 10/1/2004 6:31:35 PM EST
[Last Edit: 10/1/2004 6:32:12 PM EST by stony275]
I've been here since late April and will be here til the end of May 2005. You raise some valid points, but for me, in the final analysis, this place at this time is where I want and need to be.
Link Posted: 10/1/2004 6:43:12 PM EST

Originally Posted By stony275:
I've been here since late April and will be here til the end of May 2005. You raise some valid points, but for me, in the final analysis, this place at this time is where I want and need to be.



Stony,
Stay safe brother. If you ever need anything let us know back here. We will help.


Bigfeet
Link Posted: 10/1/2004 6:44:11 PM EST
Hell I'd do it. If I lived thru it I'd be set for the rest of my life. Ops
Link Posted: 10/1/2004 7:58:04 PM EST
That would buy a lot of BLT's
Link Posted: 10/1/2004 8:02:25 PM EST
I sent the Army an email yesterday to ask if I could re-enlist at my age ... no reply yet.

Got a feeling they're still shitting their pants.
Link Posted: 10/1/2004 8:03:31 PM EST

Originally Posted By Ops:
Hell I'd do it. If I lived thru it I'd be set for the rest of my life. Ops


My sentiments exactly.
Link Posted: 10/1/2004 8:32:31 PM EST
I've thought seriously about taking a job with one of the various security firms over there. It would give me good money and it would put me "in the action". But this is not something you can go into lighthearted or flippantly. I would love to be "serving" over there. I'd be working with brothers and would have an enormous support base (the U. S. military). But working with those firms you do not get the same thing. They will sell you out. You will not have the same support. The people that are being beheaded never thought that it would to them. Just seriously and HONESTLY understand anything before you get into it.
Link Posted: 10/1/2004 8:53:16 PM EST
[Last Edit: 10/2/2004 2:25:11 AM EST by Jarhead_22]
Link Posted: 10/1/2004 8:54:03 PM EST
I can make that here in the states...
Link Posted: 10/2/2004 2:14:03 AM EST
Link Posted: 10/2/2004 2:18:34 AM EST
I wish I had a skill that was in demand there right now.
Link Posted: 10/2/2004 2:18:49 AM EST
Link Posted: 10/2/2004 2:19:17 AM EST
Hell, if they provide the training I'll go for six months at minimum wage. It would be a hell of an experience.
Link Posted: 10/2/2004 2:35:42 AM EST
If I was in shape (other than being quite round), and was offered the opportunity, I'd jump on it!

Being single, I don't have to worry about those little pesky things like health insurance for the family.....

Oh, and being a college student sucks as far as money is concerned, so yes, $43 / hour would be friggin great.
Link Posted: 10/2/2004 2:48:47 AM EST

Originally Posted By Wobblin-Goblin:

Originally Posted By Ops:
Hell I'd do it. If I lived thru it I'd be set for the rest of my life. Ops


My sentiments exactly.



+1 million.
Link Posted: 10/2/2004 3:40:48 AM EST
Cduarte, that is one kick-ass sigline you have there. Dayum.
Link Posted: 10/2/2004 3:43:47 AM EST
[Last Edit: 10/2/2004 3:47:45 AM EST by olyarms]

Originally Posted By JPPJ:
Lets just assume you've had "the right type" of career in the military or LE, and you qualify for one of those $150,000 per year protective services jobs in Iraq. Should you take it?

$150,000/12 = $12,500. per month
$12,500/4 = $3,125. per week
$3,125/6 = $520.83 per day
$520.83/12 = $43.40 per hour.

Oh, and don't forget only the first $80,000 is tax free, and your dependants probably won't be covered by the company's benefit package--so your take-home will actually be lower. [Someone correct my tax free amount (with cite) if wrong. ]

I based these numbers, and the 6 day per week 12 hour per day schedule, on information from friends working there now, salary ranges posted on company sites, and other sources.

So, are you willing to spend your time, at less than $43/hr, in an austere environment, with extreme heat, in a land where US contractors can now be held liable for their actions (Bremer saw to that prior to his hasty departure). Sure, it would probably be really cool to wear adventure gear every day, carry a select-fire AR, and have a pistol on your thigh. The war stories your buddies there could tell you would be cool too. . . . .



. . . . . but in the end, you'd probably realize that statistically the biggest threat you'd face there--an IED of some type--is the kind of threat your adventure clothing, pistol, and AR would be no good against.


Um, I am making more then $43hr as it is no thnx.

Edit:: Also I wouldn't like to die for so company making a killing as it is.
Now the military is another story.
Link Posted: 10/2/2004 6:05:32 AM EST

Originally Posted By Wobblin-Goblin:
Cduarte, that is one kick-ass sigline you have there. Dayum.



thanks man, but real credit should go to the author, Mahatma8Rice. I merely recognized the genius in what he wrote.
Link Posted: 10/2/2004 6:56:05 AM EST

Originally Posted By Jarhead_22:

Originally Posted By JPPJ:
Lets just assume you've had "the right type" of career in the military or LE, and you qualify for one of those $150,000 per year protective services jobs in Iraq. Should you take it?

$150,000/12 = $12,500. per month
$12,500/4 = $3,125. per week
$3,125/6 = $520.83 per day
$520.83/12 = $43.40 per hour.

Oh, and don't forget only the first $80,000 is tax free, and your dependants probably won't be covered by the company's benefit package--so your take-home will actually be lower. [Someone correct my tax free amount (with cite) if wrong. ]

I based these numbers, and the 6 day per week 12 hour per day schedule, on information from friends working there now, salary ranges posted on company sites, and other sources.

So, are you willing to spend your time, at less than $43/hr, in an austere environment, with extreme heat, in a land where US contractors can now be held liable for their actions (Bremer saw to that prior to his hasty departure). Sure, it would probably be really cool to wear adventure gear every day, carry a select-fire AR, and have a pistol on your thigh. The war stories your buddies there could tell you would be cool too. . . . .



. . . . . but in the end, you'd probably realize that statistically the biggest threat you'd face there--an IED of some type--is the kind of threat your adventure clothing, pistol, and AR would be no good against.


Let's just assume you know what you're talking about as far as the money I'm being paid. (You don't.)
Let's just assume I'm only in it for the money. (I'm not.)
Let's just assume the job isn't important. (It is.)
Let's just assume I ever assumed I wouldn't be held liable for my actions. (I never did.)
Let's just assume that I'm unprotected against IEDs. (I'm not.)

It looks like your ASSumptions are not holding up too well. Where do you come by the basis for your ASSumptions? An article you found in Soldier of Fortune or, even worse, on Salon.com? Or is a friend of a friend of a cousin of a friend of yours over here doing the do and giving you all the inside skinny fifth hand?





Jarhead_22, WTF is up with this flame? Don't be such a Jarhead! This post was not meant as a flame--against you, or anyone else doing what you are doing overthere. In fact, there is absolutely no reference to you--or anyone else--in my post at all.



My basis: 15+ years in the Army; a friend with Dyncorp, a friend with TripleD holdings; 1 guy in my unit hired, and set to go in Nov.; and my own resarch into companies doing business in Iraq.



I can appreciate that you may be under stress over there, but don't take it out on me. . . .
Link Posted: 10/2/2004 7:34:45 AM EST
Lets see ........ take a pay cut to go work in a dangerous 3rd world shit hole, or stay here with my family doing the job I love.

Its a no brainer for me.
Link Posted: 10/2/2004 7:39:47 AM EST
Link Posted: 10/2/2004 7:44:30 AM EST
Link Posted: 10/2/2004 7:54:40 AM EST
Link Posted: 10/2/2004 8:16:30 AM EST
Was actually offered a job doing just that a couple of months ago. Part of me was wanting to go for all the right reasons but the other part of me was taking care of my children and wife. If I was single with no dependants but myself? I would be over there already. My family is worth more to me than all the money in the world.
Link Posted: 10/2/2004 8:35:33 AM EST
[Last Edit: 10/2/2004 8:36:47 AM EST by PeteCO]
BFD, I made more than $50 per hour in my last job here in the states, before I quit and became self-employed.


And actually, there are 4.3 weeks in a month, so the actual pay rate is only just over $40 per hour.
Link Posted: 10/2/2004 8:48:40 AM EST
Link Posted: 10/2/2004 2:22:57 PM EST

Originally Posted By Jarhead_22:

Originally Posted By JPPJ:
Jarhead_22, WTF is up with this flame? Don't be such a Jarhead! This post was not meant as a flame--against you, or anyone else doing what you are doing overthere. In fact, there is absolutely no reference to you--or anyone else--in my post at all.


If it's a flame, it's because you make sweeping generalizations that don't apply in all cases to the situation you describe, but you talk down the situation based on those generalizations. Let's just say that I've flamed your assumptions and not you. How about that?


My basis: 15+ years in the Army; a friend with Dyncorp, a friend with TripleD holdings; 1 guy in my unit hired, and set to go in Nov.; and my own resarch into companies doing business in Iraq.

So, in other words, no direct experience with the situation regarding which you're making sweeping generalizations?


I can appreciate that you may be under stress over there, but don't take it out on me. . . .

Another faulty assumption. You know nothing more about me or my situation than I've posted in one thread here on AR15.com. You certainly know nothing at all about my level of stress.

Quit while you're behind.



I know a lot more about you than you may think. . . . .

I am really surprised at the level of acromony you are sending my way, especially since you are a moderator. I'm not behind, I'm not ahead, in fact, this ain't no competition.

I've got better things to do that continue this pissing contest with you.

JPPJ OUT.

Link Posted: 10/2/2004 3:06:12 PM EST
If I was 15 years younger and not disabled like I am now, I would be out there in a heartbeat!

I have the background so no problem… UK rates are Technical Contractors (oilfield maintenance) @ £2k per week (@ US3.8k per week), plus life Insurance (@£500K ~ US$900k) and benefits, and it's tax free as long as I stay out of the UK for more than 9 months in 12… I'd go tomorrow. Accident/Death rate is no worse than on an Oil Rig… in fact probably less.

And I would be sure to pick up a weapon… an AK47 costs @US$50 in the markets in Basra and can be bought openly…

Andy
Link Posted: 10/2/2004 3:06:50 PM EST
Didn't I start a similar thread a while back?
Link Posted: 10/2/2004 3:10:18 PM EST

Originally Posted By Taxman:
The moeny is good enough for me, not like I have much going on or really much to lose.




Yep. that about sums it up. HS right now, military next.... But I hope to GOD that Iraq is unfucked by the time I get out of the .mil (4yr ROTC/Academy+5-20 Service)= Much longer than I've been alive.
Link Posted: 10/2/2004 3:41:25 PM EST
[Last Edit: 10/2/2004 3:43:38 PM EST by bigsapper]
I'll concur with JH, I think the OP's figures and assumptions are out of line based on what I've seen regarding these kind of opportunities (I've researched it for my self) .

If you're going to look strictly at the money, don't try to boil it down to a per hour figure. The annual salaries offered are very impressive (if you actually do a full year/2x6 month contracts). Now add in the fact that a significant portion is tax-free. Your actual take home is equivalent to earning a salary in the top 10% of wage earnings in CONUS. Sure it's a lot of hard work and very risky. But you're trying to minimize the income and I think that's incorrect.

Now factor in personal motivations and I think the OP's assumptions are way out of line. To each his own.

Stay safe out there guys.

Link Posted: 10/2/2004 3:52:24 PM EST

Originally Posted By fight4yourrights:
Pretty good change, but I hear from some SF friends that the teams are real CF's.


Look at the BlackWater guys that got waxed - drove the same route everyday for weeks? WTF?



Do you have any more info about the Blackwater guys doing this stuff?
Link Posted: 10/2/2004 3:59:27 PM EST
I think a lot of you guys are missing the big picture. It's not a job, it's an ADVENTURE!
History is being made as we speak. I can't imagine sitting in front of my grandchildren
many years from now, and telling them yes, I was around when that happened, and no, I wasn't there making history. I'm 36, alittle too old to take shit from a twenty something year old drill instructor. I've got the military experience, and I'm getting more training before going. I've got a wife and two kids. This isn't a light decision. Sure, the money's great, But I refuse to stand at the sidelines with my hands in my pockets while history is being made.
What was that line from the movie " Gladiator"?
" What we do in life echoes in eternity"
My deeds too, shall echo for eternity.
Link Posted: 10/2/2004 4:12:37 PM EST
[Last Edit: 10/2/2004 4:14:20 PM EST by GrH_Revelation]
About the comment of "I've heard that the contractors are real CFs" or to that effect. Everyone loves to throw stones. But then again, you can, because your ass isn't on the line is it? Yea, people make dumb mistakes... but I would put my life in their hands long before I would put my security in yours. Everyone likes to start pissing contests about how fucking good they are, but not many people like to saunter up to the trough.

Don't act like you're a pro because your sitting at home, getting your rocks off to some fat bitch named "Loquanda" or "Regina Red" when they are dead becaues they were in the shit and you weren't. Is that to say that our armed forces are real "CFs" because they have been killed? War is not dictated by skill, although your chances of living are related to your skills. SEALs get waxed, are they "CFs". People die because of luck. Someone crosses the street and then the next person gets flattened by a truck: luck. One person walks infront of an IED and nothing happens but the next GI gets his ass zapped: luck. You miss a land-mine by 3 inches but your buddy behind you gets bookoo blew up: luck. So don't act like you are such an amazing ass kicker when you are alive and somebody who has a family, maybe a wife, kids, is dead.

Link Posted: 10/2/2004 4:13:38 PM EST
I resigned from a LE agency about 9 months ago and have been contemplating a 1yr security contractor gig for a while now. My wife says she doesn't want me to go, but will understand and stand by me if I choose to. We don't have kids so it's ral tempting because we could buy a real nice house and have it paid for in a years time. The question is, is it worth the risk and do I want to be away from my wife for a year?
Link Posted: 10/2/2004 4:20:25 PM EST

Originally Posted By NightWatchman:
Do you have any more info about the Blackwater guys doing this stuff?



www.socnetcentral.com/vb/forumdisplay.php?s=&forumid=202

A word of caution. The guys that run that site are all BTDTs and do *not* tolerate immaturity. Or even a lack of critical judgement. My advice is to lurk. If post you must, make sure you understand the rules.

Link Posted: 10/2/2004 4:39:52 PM EST
It's good money for sure,but I bet everybody posting here has at least one firearm at fingers reach!

The people in these high risk areas are captured because they have none,or get lackzed in there approch to everybody is a bad guy till proven differently!!

Most of us are paranoid enough with out being in an actual full time getto!

If you go then you had better be prepared for the worst!!

But if you are lucky enough,and full time aware and have a plan and a gun,then go for it!!

Bob
Link Posted: 10/2/2004 10:28:05 PM EST
[Last Edit: 10/2/2004 11:04:05 PM EST by Jarhead_22]
Link Posted: 10/2/2004 10:31:39 PM EST
[Last Edit: 10/2/2004 10:34:42 PM EST by kabal57]
No choice here.
I get to do it for less than 2k a month, X 16 months. You do the math.
Ahh, the joys of the Army...

I'm glad I'm serving my country, but I wish the pay was a lil' higher.


In other words, TAKE IT!
Just make sure to keep your head on a swivel and ensure you get some good intelligence on the area you're going to be in.
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