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Posted: 12/30/2003 11:09:48 AM EDT
Not whining like a little bitch but I do contract engineering work and make good money.
Doing you job and meeting deadlines means I will get more work and more deadlines I have to meet.
Never do I get a word of thanks or any token of appreciation.  It’s to be expected.  I do my job.  I get paid.  Simple as that, I don’t expect anymore than money but it would be nice if I got an atta’boy now and then.    It just bugs me around Christmas.

Just wondering how it is in the real world.
Link Posted: 12/30/2003 11:13:34 AM EDT
For the first time in my life, I have an appreciative boss.
Link Posted: 12/30/2003 11:17:29 AM EDT
My "boss" is the dean of the school.  

He couldn't tell you what my research was if his life depended on it, he mis-spells my name when he "recognizes" me for outstanding teaching, and he insists on believing I'm from the Netherlands [rolleyes]
Link Posted: 12/30/2003 11:19:56 AM EDT
I [b]am[/b] the boss. I appreciate my employees far more than the ingrates appreciate what I do for them, that's for damn sure.
Link Posted: 12/30/2003 11:22:49 AM EDT
Originally Posted By DzlBenz:
I [b]am[/b] the boss. I appreciate my employees far more than the ingrates appreciate what I do for them, that's for damn sure.
View Quote


Dean??  Is that you?

[:D]
Link Posted: 12/30/2003 11:24:22 AM EDT
My boss only talk to a select few in the office. I am not one of those people. You can say "Hi" to him, and with his head down, keeps walking, not saying a word.
I know I do a good job, I guess that is all that matters...
Link Posted: 12/30/2003 11:24:22 AM EDT
the manager i have with IBM is great. First one i have had that is really not afraid back up his technicians in the field. Also considering i am the guy that cleans up after other techs are stumped he pretty much lets me work how i want so long as the job gets done.

mike
Link Posted: 12/30/2003 11:25:28 AM EDT
... Sometimes it seems contractors, or "jobshoppers" are second class citizens in engineering firms. They're usually there to buffer layoffs from "hard-badgers". Problem is, you're hired and paid through your contract house; they seldom know anything about your performance.

... If you're good, most places will extend an offer to go direct after a years probation period.

... Many shoppers I know, won't take the offer. Even if it's $60/hr or so they can make considerably more with paid overtime and shoppers rates these days.

... I do agree, few managers have it in them to acknowledge and reward good performance. At this time in my career, I'm luck to have managers that appreciate my work (when I do some).
Link Posted: 12/30/2003 11:34:34 AM EDT
I get no real recognition except when I'm not around..then I get "Holy shit, when is QS coming back to work!?!"
Link Posted: 12/30/2003 11:42:01 AM EDT
Originally Posted By QuietShootr:
I get no real recognition except when I'm not around..then I get "Holy shit, when is QS coming back to work!?!"
View Quote


Isn't that the truth. When I get back from a vacation, someone always comes by and goes, pssst, they put two boneheads over here to do your job while you were gone.
Link Posted: 12/30/2003 11:45:59 AM EDT
Originally Posted By DK-Prof:
Originally Posted By DzlBenz:
I [b]am[/b] the boss. I appreciate my employees far more than the ingrates appreciate what I do for them, that's for damn sure.
View Quote


Dean??  Is that you?

[:D]
View Quote
Heh. Good one!
Link Posted: 12/30/2003 11:46:30 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/30/2003 11:47:21 AM EDT by AimSmall]
Appreciation?

[rolleyes]
Link Posted: 12/30/2003 11:48:08 AM EDT
Originally Posted By AimSmall:
Appreciation?

[rolleyes]
View Quote



What AimSmall said.
Link Posted: 12/30/2003 11:49:39 AM EDT
They pay me.


...and as of yet, I havent been invited to not show up.
Link Posted: 12/30/2003 12:09:17 PM EDT
Occasionally I don't get yelled at...
Link Posted: 12/30/2003 12:19:23 PM EDT
Originally Posted By 308wood:
Not whining like a little bitch but I do contract engineering work and make good money.
Doing you job and meeting deadlines means I will get more work and more deadlines I have to meet.
Never do I get a word of thanks or any token of appreciation.  It’s to be expected.  I do my job.  I get paid.  Simple as that, I don’t expect anymore than money but it would be nice if I got an atta’boy now and then.    It just bugs me around Christmas.

Just wondering how it is in the real world.
View Quote


Different line of work, same results. I guess I don't know how it is in the real world either. I'm expected to put in lots of hours spring through fall, holidays included, and take care of all problems. Then this winter they asked if anyone wanted to "volunteer" for a state job share program where you take Fridays "off" and get paid one day unemployment (of course for much less than regular salary). I think they were slightly surprised when they had no volunteers; not to mention slightly indignant that no one wanted to help save the company money. [%|]s
Link Posted: 12/30/2003 12:23:38 PM EDT
With few exceptions, nobody is shown appreciation for the work they do here.  It's a shame too, as we have many intelligent, hard working professionals who are merely biding their time until they can find something else.
Link Posted: 12/30/2003 12:26:42 PM EDT
I generally get ignored at work, but when I do take vacations, they know when no one is doing my job!!! [nana]
Link Posted: 12/30/2003 12:33:25 PM EDT
Boss told me today he is glad I am here.

They gave me an extra $25,000.00 today to get " stuff " for my crews to make their life better.
keep in mind this money is extra from my normal budget, it is over and above what I asked for. [:D] This means not just new tools and equipment but the little things that make life more comfortable when your in the field. This is the best way a boss can show he cares. Not just give you the tools to do your job but to give you tools that make your job better.

Link Posted: 12/30/2003 12:37:57 PM EDT
I'm self-employed. My boss (me) is a critical SOB and informs me regularly that I'm only as good as my last job.
Link Posted: 12/30/2003 1:25:26 PM EDT
Not one damn bit.

Never mind the fact that our facility lost one of the primary power feeds yesterday morning and nobody else (including 2 contract electricians) knew how to transfer the load to the remaining feed. They called me in on my day off to take care of it.

The she-beast who runs the place would love to replace us but so far it hasn't happened yet. I am always there when they need me but they don't appreciate it in the least.
Link Posted: 12/30/2003 2:04:38 PM EDT
.308Wood, you ARE in the real world, that is how most of us get treated, and I have been with a my Company for close to 32 years.
Also an Engineer. (Top Fortune 500 company , but sinking.)
The workplace is changing, and right now my goal is to deliver enough to be worth keeping for a couple of more years. Two gets me to a good place where I am, 8 total "somewhere" should get me out of the way of the youngsters trying to get going. I wish us all luck.

Unless something unexpected happens we are all going to be learing the ropes for the new world-wide workplace before long, and quite frankly it's going to be a bit nastier a place to be in than what we expected out of life.
Link Posted: 12/30/2003 2:08:21 PM EDT
< 0
Link Posted: 12/30/2003 2:10:32 PM EDT
No exaggeration....My supervisor and I could eat lunch side by side at the same counter and not know each other.
Link Posted: 12/30/2003 2:12:07 PM EDT
The guy I work for .uses the suction factor to grade us lowly mechanics.............The more you suck his ass the more he appreciates you...........I not appreciated at all....And I like it that way!!!
Link Posted: 12/30/2003 2:25:06 PM EDT
I am in 1 of only 2 depts. that don't generate revenue. But we are a necessary evil. Not much appreciation shown by management but everyone else always tells me how quick I respond when needed. They do miss me when I take a vacation.
Link Posted: 12/30/2003 2:28:18 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/30/2003 2:28:46 PM EDT by The_Macallan]

My immediate supervisor is a goofball. He's a 20yr vet of the 82nd Airborne, entered as a 2nd Second Lieutenant and left as a Major.

He's got an immature streak of pettiness, kisses everyone's ass in the Department and keeps an incompetent secretary around so he can blame her when he drops the ball, which is quite often.

In all likelihood I'll have his job by the summer.



Link Posted: 12/30/2003 2:28:44 PM EDT
My Boss must be slipping it to the H.R. lady, She does all of his work. She is a Fu
We have already been told....

"A monkey with a pencil could do your jobs!"
Link Posted: 12/30/2003 2:31:26 PM EDT
I supervise the electrical department at work. My boss could not hook two wires together and get them right, but everything my department does is criticized by him for not being finished soon enough.  He likes to micro-manage everything in maintenance, even when he has no idea what is going on.  My whole crew threatened to quit if he does not leave them alone while they do their work.
Link Posted: 12/30/2003 2:46:44 PM EDT
Not in the least. im leaving soon.
Link Posted: 12/30/2003 2:55:48 PM EDT
My boss appreciates me because I'm always there and he never has to do my job.  He's the only other person in the company that has a prayer of doing it.

The big bosses don't give a crap that's why ini two weeks time we will have finished laying off 40% of the staff.

We'd have more working capitol if the big bosses and their parents hadn't built a new house in Palm Springs and become partners in the Condos being put up across the street.
Link Posted: 12/30/2003 3:00:37 PM EDT
My boss does not understand what I do.  That is pretty common in engineering.
Link Posted: 12/30/2003 3:35:32 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/30/2003 6:15:56 PM EDT by chuckhammer]
I am a direct-hire employee for a small company that does design, engineering and manufacture of one-off turbomachinery compressor rigs for aerospace propulsion and power generation.  These rigs are for test only - not production machinery.

As has already been said, we use contractors (road whores [:)]) to fill in the gaps between layoffs to reduce the chance of a direct-hire getting the shaft.  Because of the risks taken by these guys, they make 1.5-2.5 times more than a similar direct would.

As a direct, I can honestly tell you they appreciate us no more than they do you, as a contractor.  The main differnces between us are the level of pay and the likelihood of getting fired when things slow down.

Only a couple more years experience and I will be able to hit the road for a contractor's rate.
Link Posted: 12/30/2003 3:47:03 PM EDT
The only thing the boss appreciates is the money you make them or how good you make them look.
Don't ever think you are anything more than a resource to your boss.  The instant it becomes cost effective, you will be replaced by a machine who works for nothing or a third world slave who works for next to nothing.
Regardless of their spin or bullshit, all any boss cares about is the bottom line ($$$$) and making themselves look good.
Remember, success is what your boss achieves through your hard work.
Link Posted: 12/30/2003 4:03:37 PM EDT
I took a vacation recently and got punished when I got back to work with a suprisingly heavy workload and no days off.  When things go right...its never because I got it done on time, or got it done at all.  Its because that fella over there is a hard worker.  Sometimes I feel like Peter Gibbons from Office Space...

"Is there some way you can hypnotize me to make me think I've been fishing all day?"
Link Posted: 12/30/2003 4:26:21 PM EDT
Originally Posted By 308wood:
Not whining like a little bitch but I do contract engineering work and make good money.
Doing you job and meeting deadlines means I will get more work and more deadlines I have to meet.
Never do I get a word of thanks or any token of appreciation.  It’s to be expected.  I do my job.  I get paid.  Simple as that, I don’t expect anymore than money but it would be nice if I got an atta’boy now and then.    It just bugs me around Christmas.

Just wondering how it is in the real world.
View Quote


It sounds like we have the same boss.

He would fire me except he would have $10 million in sales less.

Somebody has to be smart enough to figure it out.  All you get is the check that tells you.  Forget the atta boy it is not coming...

If you want atta boy and less money go somewhere else...

Link Posted: 12/30/2003 4:46:25 PM EDT
I'm sure he appreciates what I do and the quality and quantity of what I accomplish.

He just has trouble expressing it.

If something were to happen to me, he would be doing some of what I deal with everyday until the hiring freeze goes off.

They can fill my position, but no one can contribute like I can, right off the bat, no one.

Danny
Link Posted: 12/30/2003 5:26:55 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/30/2003 5:29:02 PM EDT by steady]
I used to be a supervisor over about 20 engineers.  I tried to praise people for good work and reward with raises for merited performace.  They did not tell me they appreciated the effort I put into their morale and pay.  It did not flow to the boss enough.

Now I work for an boss who has me leading a smaller office.  It is totally up to me to get the plans out, deal with clients, and schedule day to day activities.  I get paid fair as a professional.  That is my boss's appreciation.  He is polite and we get along great.  I have much freedom about the office.  It could be better.

If he stayed around the office or paid some attention to our work, he would be able to appreciate us all.  I think he is happy when he can put money in the bank or spend gobs of money on his kids.

I think when I go on vacation, that is his first question, When are you going to be back?  He gets the same answer, I would not leave you in a bind, things are stable.  That is good to know mentally, but a few free days or bonuses would be nice.  How about a one-on-one meeting with a verbal evaluation once and a while.

 
Link Posted: 12/30/2003 5:31:06 PM EDT
Originally Posted By steady:
 How about a one-on-one meeting with a verbal evaluation once and a while.

 
View Quote


Rather than once a year, I totally agree.

Let's fix things now before they really go south.

Danny
Link Posted: 12/30/2003 5:38:48 PM EDT
I had a Captain, he hated my guts, he would make me walk the line, if I wavered he would have fired me. But when the shit hit the fan, he called me, not one of the other SWAT team leaders to solve the situation. He would then try to rip the solution apart, and was never able to. How much did he appreciate me, I will never know, but  did he use me, a lot .

A funny thing because in the end I saved his life once as a SWAT member. And his response --- was to say  "you did your job, no more no less," and he was right.
Link Posted: 12/30/2003 5:53:27 PM EDT
Originally Posted By 308wood:

....Never do I get a word of thanks or any token of appreciation.  .... but it would be nice if I got an atta’boy now and then.    It just bugs me around Christmas.

Just wondering how it is in the real world.
View Quote



I am on the other side of that.  How often have you expressed thanks for your job?  I get bummed about this time of the year when I do a Christmas bonus, let more people than I should off at the same time,  pick up the tab for the Christmas party for the employees & spouses, and let them use a couple of  extra days of PTO that won't be earned until Feb or March.  All year, I buy lunch for all 1-2 times per month.  I pay going rates for all my folks as well.  All I get is "why isn't Christmas Eve and the day after a PAID holiday?  And why do we have to work the day after New Years??? "

The ol atta boy goes both ways.

But like you, I don't expect it.  

Merry Christmas and Happy New Year!!!
Link Posted: 12/30/2003 5:59:48 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/30/2003 6:01:13 PM EDT by sherrick13]
Originally Posted By DK-Prof:
My "boss" is the dean of the school.  

He couldn't tell you what my research was if his life depended on it, he mis-spells my name when he "recognizes" me for outstanding teaching, and he insists on believing I'm from the Netherlands [rolleyes]
View Quote



You mean you aren't from des Pays-bas?  [shock]
Link Posted: 12/30/2003 6:07:09 PM EDT
My boss showed his appreciation when he hired me for twice the salary I was making at my previous job (which was close to the lab director's salary...).

CW
Link Posted: 12/30/2003 6:07:42 PM EDT
I work for a government contractor.  It's hard to see the treasure for all of the trash.

In my line of work, when things go wrong, they go VERY wrong, and there's a lot at stake.  I always get the call; I guess that means management realizes that I'm good at what I do.
Link Posted: 12/30/2003 6:20:08 PM EDT
Work is best summed up thusly...

"The beatings will continue, until morale improves"

The guy I work for's idea of leadership is to threaten to fire anyone who does anything he doesn't like. He won't tell you in advance what he does and doesn't like.
Greetings from the minefield...  ==Bob
Link Posted: 12/30/2003 6:55:23 PM EDT
Not a slam to this thread nor to any of your individual cases as I do not know you but have you ever noticed that some of the biggest idiots/screw offs are the same guys crying that they are being overworked/under appreciated? This is not to say that there are not some crappy boss's or companies out there but read on:

There is a factory closing near my home, there was a guy a few days ago on TV doing an interview and was crying that he gave the company 20 years of his life, working his fingers to the bone and cant believe the company is paying him back by closing.  I have done work in that factory and know the guy, he's a screw off that hid in the back corner and slept instead of doing his job. He also was one of the first to cry to HR that his supervisor had it in for him and asked him to do more than he should have to. It is my opinion that if you can do X amount of work during your work day, you should. The factory here in town is closing because of lazy cry babies like the one I mentioned above. He was not alone, 2/3rds of the company felt/acted the same way he did. Now the whole company is gone.

What I am getting at is if you don't like your job quit. I don't know where you might be at but good jobs around here are getting hard to find and lazy whiners have half of them. If you do not work hard all day and put out as much as you can regardless of what "Joe Coworker" is doing you don't have a full days pay coming. The notion that you are owed appreciation for doing the job you was hired for is crazy. Sure appreciation is nice and most of us love to get it but to think its OWED to you is a problem you are going to have to deal with.

Reminds me of the new crop of kids that feel that their parents owe them the best clothes and goodies while they refuse to work and help out around the house or like the lazy (not injured) guys/gals feel that the Gov owes them a free ride as they are to lazy to go out and produce/work in the real world. Its the American way: What can I get from someone else for very little or no effort on my part.

If you don't like it start your own business and live the easy life. Its all fun and games just look at your bosses, the only time they do anything is when they leave the office to haul all the money they make to the bank.

[img]http://us.st5.yimg.com/store4.yimg.com/I/demotivators_1771_4428490[/img]

Something to consider next time that lazy coworker of yours is screwing off, HE is the reason you are not getting the appreciation that you might. HE is the one that is not doing his part to make production or solve the problems. HE is the reason your department did not makes its quota. HE is the reason your customer is pissed. HE is the reason your company is not making the profit that it should and therefore HE is the reason you are going to loose your job when you boss, or his boss has decided to close the doors or move the company over sea's and give both of your jobs to someone else. Even though the other countries labor force will probably have similar labor issues with lazy workers, he is doing it for half of your wages. Do the math, they have.

It is not OK to skimp on your work, hide and sleep or steal from the company. Companies are there to make money pure and simple. They hire and pay you to work so they can make money. You both make money this way. If you do not do everything that you can to make the company money, you are costing them money. Eventually you will be the one on TV crying about the 20 years you put in and this is how the company repays you...

Have you ever seen that picture of the two sailors standing near the rail of the ship in the middle of the Ocean, the load squawk box goes off and says ".. the ship is sinking..." the one sailor looks at the other and says "what do I care, its not my ship "
Link Posted: 12/30/2003 7:03:34 PM EDT
Originally Posted By JC_:
Not a slam to this thread nor to any of your individual cases as I do not know you but have you ever noticed that some of the biggest idiots/screw offs are the same guys crying that they are being overworked/under appreciated? This is not to say that there are not some crappy boss's or companies out there but read on:

There is a factory closing near my home, there was a guy a few days ago on TV doing an interview and was crying that he gave the company 20 years of his life, working his fingers to the bone and cant believe the company is paying him back by closing.  I have done work in that factory and know the guy, he's a screw off that hid in the back corner and slept instead of doing his job. He also was one of the first to cry to HR that his supervisor had it in for him and asked him to do more than he should have to. It is my opinion that if you can do X amount of work during your work day, you should. The factory here in town is closing because of lazy cry babies like the one I mentioned above. He was not alone, 2/3rds of the company felt/acted the same way he did. Now the whole company is gone.

What I am getting at is if you don't like your job quit. I don't know where you might be at but good jobs around here are getting hard to find and lazy whiners have half of them. If you do not work hard all day and put out as much as you can regardless of what "Joe Coworker" is doing you don't have a full days pay coming. The notion that you are owed appreciation for doing the job you was hired for is crazy. Sure appreciation is nice and most of us love to get it but to think its OWED to you is a problem you are going to have to deal with.

Reminds me of the new crop of kids that feel that their parents owe them the best clothes and goodies while they refuse to work and help out around the house or like the lazy (not injured) guys/gals feel that the Gov owes them a free ride as they are to lazy to go out and produce/work in the real world. Its the American way: What can I get from someone else for very little or no effort on my part.

If you don't like it start your own business and live the easy life. Its all fun and games just look at your bosses, the only time they do anything is when they leave the office to haul all the money they make to the bank.

[url]http://us.st5.yimg.com/store4.yimg.com/I/demotivators_1771_4428490[/url]

Something to consider next time that lazy coworker of yours is screwing off, HE is the reason you are not getting the appreciation that you might. HE is the one that is not doing his part to make production or solve the problems. HE is the reason your department did not makes its quota. HE is the reason your customer is pissed. HE is the reason your company is not making the profit that it should and therefore HE is the reason you are going to loose your job when you boss, or his boss has decided to close the doors or move the company over sea's and give both of your jobs to someone else. Even though the other countries labor force will probably have similar labor issues with lazy workers, he is doing it for half of your wages. Do the math, they have.

It is not OK to skimp on your work, hide and sleep or steal from the company. Companies are there to make money pure and simple. They hire and pay you to work so they can make money. You both make money this way. If you do not do everything that you can to make the company money, you are costing them money. Eventually you will be the one on TV crying about the 20 years you put in and this is how the company repays you...

Have you ever seen that picture of the two sailors standing near the rail of the ship in the middle of the Ocean, the load squawk box goes off and says ".. the ship is sinking..." the one sailor looks at the other and says "what do I care, its not my ship "
View Quote


The company in your town should have fired all the losers such as the guy you mentioned and hired productive people in their stead.  It is the fault of the management for not solving that problem in the beginning.  Of course, if the management is ALSO looking for the easy ride, there's your problem.  Doomed from the start.

Who keeps a loafer on the payroll for 20 years?  Must be one of those corrupt union labor situations.
Link Posted: 12/30/2003 7:13:15 PM EDT
Uncle Sam doesn't seem to care much.



[:|]




But should he?
Link Posted: 12/30/2003 7:38:55 PM EDT
Originally Posted By chuckhammer:

Who keeps a loafer on the payroll for 20 years?  Must be one of those corrupt union labor situations.
View Quote


That's exactly what the problems was. Typical factory style labor union. Management was pretty much at their mercy, most did not care anyhow.

At the time, I worked for a mechanical contractor that supplied labor to the plant to make up for their lack of labor output in the Maint. dept. as well as install the new machinery.

Not all union labor situations are currupt though. Well, who am I kidding sure they are but there are different types of unions. The non factory type unions (trade unions) are a lot better, if you don't produce, you don't work. That simple. These unions have three main purposes:

1. They act as a labor pool for companies that cannot afford to keep 100 guys on staff but do need that many from time to time. Kind of like a "manpower" of skilled (supposed to be anyhow) labor.

2. They manage the insurance a retirement funds for the workers and negotiate their wage package.

3. They have a 4/5 year apprenticeship school for training the men so that they are skilled (supposed to be anyhow) and can do the jobs that they are hired to do.

A company like mine could not make it without the labor pool. We use Millwrights, Ironworkers and Operators. There are several companies that use our people exclusively (they do not or no longer have a Maint. dept.) as our men are already trained and certified and know that they have to work or they will not have a job. Yes, I know this doesn't sound like the unions that you might have known or have been thinking about but there are some good ones out there. Just not enough of them, to many "factory type" that protect the lazy suckers that do not do their part and drive up the costs of the products we all buy.
Link Posted: 12/30/2003 7:56:34 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/30/2003 7:57:48 PM EDT by chuckhammer]
Originally Posted By JC_:
Originally Posted By chuckhammer:

Who keeps a loafer on the payroll for 20 years?  Must be one of those corrupt union labor situations.
View Quote


That's exactly what the problems was. Typical factory style labor union. Management was pretty much at their mercy, most did not care anyhow.

At the time, I worked for a mechanical contractor that supplied labor to the plant to make up for their lack of labor output in the Maint. dept. as well as install the new machinery.

Not all union labor situations are currupt though. Well, who am I kidding sure they are but there are different types of unions. The non factory type unions (trade unions) are a lot better, if you don't produce, you don't work. That simple. These unions have three main purposes:

1. They act as a labor pool for companies that cannot afford to keep 100 guys on staff but do need that many from time to time. Kind of like a "manpower" of skilled (supposed to be anyhow) labor.

2. They manage the insurance a retirement funds for the workers and negotiate their wage package.

3. They have a 4/5 year apprenticeship school for training the men so that they are skilled (supposed to be anyhow) and can do the jobs that they are hired to do.

A company like mine could not make it without the labor pool. We use Millwrights, Ironworkers and Operators. There are several companies that use our people exclusively (they do not or no longer have a Maint. dept.) as our men are already trained and certified and know that they have to work or they will not have a job. Yes, I know this doesn't sound like the unions that you might have known or have been thinking about but there are some good ones out there. Just not enough of them, to many "factory type" that protect the lazy suckers that do not do their part and drive up the costs of the products we all buy.
View Quote


Trade unions are of excellent value.  Particularly the apprenticeship training you mentioned.  There's nothing worse than going to an industrial construction site where a given "skilled" laborer is a structural welder one day and a pipefitter or electrician the next.  That is absolutely unacceptable but it's also reality in many cases.  I used to work for Bechtel doing power plant mechanical system design when I first got out of school.  I talked to the construction managers of a few different jobs and this kind of crap does happen - even in the construction of a power plant.

True skilled laborers are an immense value.

Unskilled labor unions only help perpetuate the cycle of relocation of manufacturing facilities from the US into places like China, Taiwan, and India.

Example - the UAW.  Ever wonder why Toyotas last longer than Pontiacs?  Two big reasons:
1) Labor unions.
2) Most skilled engineers gravitate towards the defense industry rather than automotive.  It offers higher technology challenges and - many times - better pay.
Link Posted: 12/30/2003 9:12:21 PM EDT
the person in charge where i work is a prick.

we do not talk to each other on a personal level only work , thats it!

fine with me i love it!

[chainsawkill]

[wave]
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