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Posted: 3/5/2009 11:14:13 AM EDT
With all of the threads regarding the desire to stock up on ammo, I was wondering what the maximum amount of rounds one can legally store in a home, apartment, townhouse, etc. without some sort of an ammo license?

Past threads that have addressed this seemed to lead nowhere. Usually half the posts are "it depends on your local county or city statutes" and that the Fire Marshall may have to be asked.

Does anyone have any information on somewhat of a ball park figure on how much a person can have? And would they base it on weight of ammunition considering 550 rounds of .22 is considerably less powder than 550 rounds of 45 ACP.

And if there is not a good source online for this info, who would you contact in your local government to ask?
Link Posted: 3/5/2009 11:19:09 AM EDT
I've always heard that 10,000 primers is the limit without permits and approved storage. I just don't remember if loaded ammo counts with it
Link Posted: 3/5/2009 11:19:15 AM EDT
If you do not hold a valid ammo license, please send all your ammo to me.



You are in violation of the ammo license law.
Link Posted: 3/5/2009 11:20:01 AM EDT
Generally, you can own as much as you can afford.


Link Posted: 3/5/2009 11:20:54 AM EDT
ummm.....all of it
Link Posted: 3/5/2009 11:20:55 AM EDT
I had a number of jokes ready but decided to take this seriously.

I spoke with a member of the local FD and was told that there are no city regulations on this. However, the FD does have a few. They are mostly concerned with fire hazards. Store lose powder in a, for lack of a better name, paint locker. (fire proof locker) Store ammo in a metalic locker. (much like a paint locker but it lays down)
Mind you, this is from the fire departments view. (at least this one guy)
Also, he said that storing a few hundred rounds under your work bench is fine. A few thousand scattered around the house is a no no.
Link Posted: 3/5/2009 11:22:06 AM EDT
When one becomes a hazard to the community  . It  has been  determined  that anything over 10,000 rounds is a  fire hazard.

friend told me that .
Link Posted: 3/5/2009 11:22:47 AM EDT
Never heard anything about ammo limits.  

HH
Link Posted: 3/5/2009 11:23:07 AM EDT
As much as you legally can pay for.


Link Posted: 3/5/2009 11:24:00 AM EDT
Some states (Minnesota?) have laws on smokeless propellant. Typically 20lbs or less in not a problem, up to 50lbs requires a wooden box with nominal 1-inch thick walls (to contain the potential fire?)

Primer limitations are maybe 10,000 in a  residence.

As to loaded ammunition, I've not seen anything, but it doesn't mean state, or local ordinances do not exist.
Link Posted: 3/5/2009 11:26:52 AM EDT
I just checked my reloading bench and I have 1800 primers next to my press. 10,000 primers is a shitton of primers
Link Posted: 3/5/2009 11:29:54 AM EDT
if its enough that a fire would cause danger to surrounding properties, its illegal.  Some guy got fined for having enough powder and ammo that it was determined that a fire woulve blow up a bit of surrounding area.
Link Posted: 3/5/2009 11:33:35 AM EDT
No law in my state about amounts permissible.

I suppose it all would be a matter of how much storage I had. Assuming I had a one acre lot with a solid foundation, and that it was a square, that would be 174 feet on a side.  standard issue NATO/US military .50 cal ammo can is 11Lx 5.5W x7 inches deep.  This would be 190 boxes long, and 380 wide, or 72,200 boxes per acre. Stacked to LEO at 62 miles, this would be 561,188 boxes high. 561,188 boxes high x 72,200 boxes per acre is  40,517,773,600 total boxes. That would be roughly 40.5 billion .50 cal ammo cans. Assuming each one had 5000 rounds of .22lr in it for maximum round count, that would be 202,588,868,000,000 rounds, or roughly 202.5 trillion rounds.

I am pretty sure that might start to violate certain laws once you got high enough though. The FAA might want a word. Also, I think the bottom boxes might start to crush at some point, so there might be a danger of tipping.
Link Posted: 3/5/2009 11:34:49 AM EDT
Link Posted: 3/5/2009 11:35:04 AM EDT
As far as 3/5/2009, as much as you can afford.  No telling beyond that.
Link Posted: 3/5/2009 11:35:17 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/5/2009 11:37:23 AM EDT by callgood]
Originally Posted By sslocal:
I had a number of jokes ready but decided to take this seriously.

I spoke with a member of the local FD and was told that there are no city regulations on this. However, the FD does have a few. They are mostly concerned with fire hazards. Store lose powder in a, for lack of a better name, paint locker. (fire proof locker) Store ammo in a metalic locker. (much like a paint locker but it lays down)
Mind you, this is from the fire departments view. (at least this one guy)
Also, he said that storing a few hundred rounds under your work bench is fine. A few thousand scattered around the house is a no no.


I had to create a map of my house to note the location of all the ammo cans and their contents. Nothing like trying to rely on a shaky memory when you need a box of .32-20 and all you can find is 7.62x51.

I really admire the people with dedicated closets and all their cans lined up and labled. If either of my daughters will marry I'm going to box up all their stuff we still store and join the ranks of the organized ammo whores.

Originally Posted By AeroE:
Originally Posted By Tacticalpancake:
I just checked my reloading bench and I have 1800 primers next to my press. 10,000 primers is a shitton of primers


10000 primers is a start on a decent near term supply for the shotguns.  Not nearly enough to feed everything, however.


I just nailed Powder Valley for 12k.

Wanted some Winchester small pistols, but the had Remingtons, so I pounced.

Link Posted: 3/5/2009 11:35:24 AM EDT
As much as you want, with OPSEC.
Link Posted: 3/5/2009 11:36:59 AM EDT
how much ammo can your backyard hold while still supporting plantlife...?



...errr can you dig deep enough
Link Posted: 3/5/2009 11:37:59 AM EDT
Originally Posted By burns117:
When one becomes a hazard to the community  . It  has been  determined  that anything over 10,000 rounds is a  fire hazard.

friend told me that .


Opps! Better convert some in to ammo fast!
This topic interests me.
Link Posted: 3/5/2009 11:39:07 AM EDT
Originally Posted By Poultryinspector:
No law in my state about amounts permissible.

I suppose it all would be a matter of how much storage I had. Assuming I had a one acre lot with a solid foundation, and that it was a square, that would be 174 feet on a side.  standard issue NATO/US military .50 cal ammo can is 11Lx 5.5W x7 inches deep.  This would be 190 boxes long, and 380 wide, or 72,200 boxes per acre. Stacked to LEO at 62 miles, this would be 561,188 boxes high. 561,188 boxes high x 72,200 boxes per acre is  40,517,773,600 total boxes. That would be roughly 40.5 billion .50 cal ammo cans. Assuming each one had 5000 rounds of .22lr in it for maximum round count, that would be 202,588,868,000,000 rounds, or roughly 202.5 trillion rounds.

I am pretty sure that might start to violate certain laws once you got high enough though. The FAA might want a word. Also, I think the bottom boxes might start to crush at some point, so there might be a danger of tipping.


That's just awesome.
Link Posted: 3/5/2009 11:41:06 AM EDT
Originally Posted By zack991:
As much as you want, with OPSEC.


So now the hoarders need to act like secret squirrel ? Somehow I think they already do .
Link Posted: 3/5/2009 11:43:05 AM EDT
Originally Posted By callgood:
If either of my daughters will marry I'm going to box up all their stuff we still store and join the ranks of the organized ammo whores.


Tell us more about these single daughters you're looking to get rid of.



Link Posted: 3/5/2009 11:44:40 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/5/2009 11:45:45 AM EDT by zack991]
Originally Posted By burns117:
Originally Posted By zack991:
As much as you want, with OPSEC.


So now the hoarders need to act like secret squirrel ? Somehow I think they already do .


Nope, simple don't advertise how much you have. People that take photos,video or run their gum's off about their ammo fort are just asking for it. Loose lips sink ship.
Link Posted: 3/5/2009 11:47:40 AM EDT
I don't recall the details, but I do remember the ATF busting a guy that had several hundred thousand rounds in his garage.  I can't remember the charge, but they knew that he had been sending it out of the country without saying please.
Link Posted: 3/5/2009 11:48:50 AM EDT
Couple years back, watching the news on a house fire.
This was central fl- during the fire rounds were going off.
They said he had 2000 rounds and were going to follow up with a investagation.
I never heard anything else, but it has always been in the back of my mind-how much is too much.
Link Posted: 3/5/2009 11:50:03 AM EDT
Constitutionally i you should be able to have much as you could buy or load since its a right that "shall not be infringed."

....Although, holding any makes you a terrorist.  

So..... somewhere between infinity and 0?
Link Posted: 3/5/2009 12:11:19 PM EDT
What I would do, if I was REALLY concerned about this, like you seem to be.

Check with PD, see what they say, seeing as they know the laws and such.

Check with the FD and see what if anything that the fire code says about it.

Find out who does code enforcement in your area, PD/FD/someone else and see what they say.

Get copies of the specific area's in the fire codes/building codes/ any other applicable codes.
Link Posted: 3/5/2009 12:12:37 PM EDT
No limit here.
Link Posted: 3/5/2009 12:16:39 PM EDT
probably like having a ton of cash.  as much as you want until you piss of the wrong person, then they will find some way to get you for it.
Link Posted: 3/5/2009 12:17:45 PM EDT
How thick is your slab?
Link Posted: 3/5/2009 12:19:12 PM EDT
how much can you afford?
Link Posted: 3/5/2009 12:20:10 PM EDT
Originally Posted By arowneragain:
Originally Posted By callgood:
If either of my daughters will marry I'm going to box up all their stuff we still store and join the ranks of the organized ammo whores.


Tell us more about these single daughters you're looking to get rid of.


One is serious.

The other one's available. The Sioux demanded 5 ponies, but I'm open to negotiation.

Link Posted: 3/5/2009 12:22:03 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Tacticalpancake:
I just checked my reloading bench and I have 1800 primers next to my press. 10,000 primers is a shitton of primers


Lightweight.
Link Posted: 3/5/2009 12:23:01 PM EDT
This is a great question.
I will look into this and possible write and try to get information for WI later.
I have enough put away in 5.56 and 9mm to get me through a few years, but I never thought about a law on how much I can have.

AP
Link Posted: 3/5/2009 12:23:19 PM EDT
All of it
Link Posted: 3/5/2009 12:29:40 PM EDT
Originally Posted By callgood:
Originally Posted By arowneragain:
Originally Posted By callgood:
If either of my daughters will marry I'm going to box up all their stuff we still store and join the ranks of the organized ammo whores.


Tell us more about these single daughters you're looking to get rid of.


One is serious.

The other one's available. The Sioux demanded 5 ponies, but I'm open to negotiation.



I'm not much of a horse trader - but I do own enough ARs and ammo to protect her from home invasions.

How many cases of XM193 does it take to equal 5 ponies?
Link Posted: 3/5/2009 12:37:35 PM EDT
No Federal limits, local ordinances or state laws might restrict the amount of ammo.  In Utah, the sky is the limit.  When I worked in California, I never heard of a law that restricts the amount of ammo you can possess.  I retired in 2004 from LE.
Link Posted: 3/5/2009 12:40:03 PM EDT
Around here whatever you can fit into your place without colapsing the floor boards.
Link Posted: 3/5/2009 12:40:23 PM EDT
Originally Posted By 1387Delta:
No Federal limits, local ordinances or state laws might restrict the amount of ammo.  In Utah, the sky is the limit.  When I worked in California, I never heard of a law that restricts the amount of ammo you can possess.  I retired in 2004 from LE.


Did you know all criminal, civil, and administrative laws ?
Link Posted: 3/5/2009 12:41:21 PM EDT
I don't know of any fire code that would prohibit a certain amount of powder/primers in ones private residence.  Most of the fire codes are for commercial buisnesses anyway.  There are certainly codes for construction of residences but after it's been turned over to the owner, he/she can do pretty much whatever they want, to a certain extent of course.  Even if we see a violation on at a private residence, we cannot knock on the door and demand that it be fixed.

Powder doesn't explode anyway, it burns very fast.  If it exploded, you all would see 1.x hazmat plackard stickers on the boxes powder/primers come in...  The 1.x (1.1, 1.2, 1.3) class is explosives if you don't know.  I just received 32 lb of powder and 10k of primers...  In the same box and the only plackard on the box was a "Dangerous" sticker...  Nothing about the 1.x catagory.  As a former ordnanceman and as a firefighter (we have to have IFSAC HazMat Ops) I know my crap about hazmat in general and especially when it comes to explosives.

Now, if you're storing 100lb in a sealed heavy metal container, and it was engulfed in a fire and it got hot enough to ignite the powder...  Now I can see a problem, but if it's stored in the garage, or on a shelf, I don't think it's going to be any greater hazard than the 10 gallons of gasoline everyone has in their garage.

Loaded ammo would be the same.  They are not explosives.  In fact, there isn't any kind of hazmat plackard on a box of ammo.  If it's not in the chamber of a firearm, and it gets hot enough to explode, there is very little hazard to them.

If you all want, I can try to find something in the internation fire codes, but I don't think I'll be able to find anything..  And if I do, I can almost guarentee that it'll be for a commercial buisness.
Link Posted: 3/5/2009 12:42:16 PM EDT
It is governed by LOCAL ordinance.  There is no one correct answer that applies.
Link Posted: 3/5/2009 12:44:02 PM EDT
Originally Posted By arowneragain:
Originally Posted By callgood:
Originally Posted By arowneragain:
Originally Posted By callgood:
If either of my daughters will marry I'm going to box up all their stuff we still store and join the ranks of the organized ammo whores.


Tell us more about these single daughters you're looking to get rid of.


One is serious.

The other one's available. The Sioux demanded 5 ponies, but I'm open to negotiation.



I'm not much of a horse trader - but I do own enough ARs and ammo to protect her from home invasions.

How many cases of XM193 does it take to equal 5 ponies?


That's like 500 rounds at today's prices.
Link Posted: 3/5/2009 12:45:46 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/5/2009 12:46:46 PM EDT by Sig_Fan]
Great responses guys. The reason I ask is that my cache of .22LR is quite large (and is all in sealed ammo cans). I shoot a good 1500-2000 rounds when I go out with the .22s though.

I am starting to think that is the guy who has a couple hundred pounds of powder and primers that would have to have a paint locker type cabinet to store it, but like the firefighter said a few posts up, that would most likely apply to a commercial entity.

I am not worried about having all of this .22 I am sitting on then.
Link Posted: 3/5/2009 12:47:59 PM EDT
Originally Posted By burns117:
Originally Posted By 1387Delta:
No Federal limits, local ordinances or state laws might restrict the amount of ammo.  In Utah, the sky is the limit.  When I worked in California, I never heard of a law that restricts the amount of ammo you can possess.  I retired in 2004 from LE.


Did you know all criminal, civil, and administrative laws ?


Nope..  I just was stating that there was no federal law.  You have to check your local and state laws.  Why?  Do you have a question?
Link Posted: 3/5/2009 12:48:51 PM EDT
To my knowledge, there are no laws in the US that limit the amount of ammo one may own.
Link Posted: 3/5/2009 12:49:48 PM EDT
Originally Posted By 1387Delta:
Originally Posted By burns117:
Originally Posted By 1387Delta:
No Federal limits, local ordinances or state laws might restrict the amount of ammo.  In Utah, the sky is the limit.  When I worked in California, I never heard of a law that restricts the amount of ammo you can possess.  I retired in 2004 from LE.


Did you know all criminal, civil, and administrative laws ?


Nope..  I just was stating that there was no federal law.  You have to check your local and state laws.  Why?  Do you have a question?


More of saying that there are too many laws for a person to say what you said. That is all.

Fire code
City Ordinances
on and on
Link Posted: 3/5/2009 12:52:11 PM EDT
Originally Posted By zack991:
Originally Posted By burns117:
Originally Posted By zack991:
As much as you want, with OPSEC.


So now the hoarders need to act like secret squirrel ? Somehow I think they already do .


Nope, simple don't advertise how much you have. People that take photos,video or run their gum's off about their ammo fort are just asking for it. Loose lips sink ship.


THIS!
Link Posted: 3/5/2009 12:52:33 PM EDT
Originally Posted By burns117:
Originally Posted By 1387Delta:
Originally Posted By burns117:
Originally Posted By 1387Delta:
No Federal limits, local ordinances or state laws might restrict the amount of ammo.  In Utah, the sky is the limit.  When I worked in California, I never heard of a law that restricts the amount of ammo you can possess.  I retired in 2004 from LE.


Did you know all criminal, civil, and administrative laws ?


Nope..  I just was stating that there was no federal law.  You have to check your local and state laws.  Why?  Do you have a question?


More of saying that there are too many laws for a person to say what you said. That is all.

Fire code
City Ordinances
on and on


How does "local ordinances or state laws might restrict the amount of ammo" translate into anything other than you need to check them?  The only law I commented on was a Federal restriction.  
Link Posted: 3/5/2009 12:53:08 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Tacticalpancake:
I just checked my reloading bench and I have 1800 primers next to my press. 10,000 primers is a shitton of primers


10,000 primers is a decent start
Link Posted: 3/5/2009 12:55:20 PM EDT
Originally Posted By LGK:
how much can you afford?


best answer IMHO
Link Posted: 3/5/2009 12:55:44 PM EDT
I stole this from another board regarding gunpowder.  

IIRC there is no limit on loaded ammuniton.

The short answer.... 20 LBS


The long answer.....
10-3 SMOKELESS PROPELLANTS. 10-3.1 Quantities of smokeless propellants not exceeding 25 LB (11.3kg), in shipping containers approved by the U.S. Department of Transportation, may be transported in a private vehicle.

10-3.2 Quantities of smokeless propellants exceeding 25 lb (11.3kg) but not exceeding 50 lb (22.7 kg), transported in a private vehicle, shall be transported in a portable magazine having wood walls of at least 1-inc. (25.4-mm) nominal thickness.

10-3.3 Transportation of more than 50 lb (22.7 kg) of smokeless propellants in a private vehicle is prohibited.

10-3.4 Commercial shipments of smokeless propellants in quantities not exceeding 100 lb. (45.4kg) are classified for transportation purposes as flammable solids when packaged according to U.S. Department of Transportation Hazardous Materials Regulations. (Title 49, Code of Federal Regulations, Park 173.197a), and shall be transported accordingly.

10-3.5 Commercial shipments of smokeless propellants exceeding 100 lb (45.4 kg) or not packaged in accordance with the regulations cited in 10-3.4 shall be transported according to the U. S. Department of Transportation regulations for Class B propellant explosives.

10-3.6 Smokeless propellants shall be stored in shipping containers specified by U. S. Department of Transportation Hazardous Materials Regulations.

10-3.7 Smokeless propellants intended for personal use in quantities not exceeding 20 lb (9.1 kg) may be stored in original containers in residences. Quantities exceeding 20 lb (9.1 kg), but not exceeding 50 lb (22.7 kg), may be stored in residences if kept in a wooden box or cabinet having walls or at least 1-inc. (25.4-mm) nominal thickness.

10-3.8 Not more than 20 lb (9.1 kg) of smokeless propellants, in containers of 1-lb (0.45-kg) maximum capacity, shall be displayed in commercial establishments.

10-3.9 Commercial stocks of smokeless propellants should be stored as follows:

(a) Quantities exceeding 20 lb (9.1 kg), but not exceeding 100 lb (45.4 kg), shall be stored in portable wooden boxes having walls of at least 1-in (25.4-mm) thickness.

(b) Quantities exceeding 100 lb (45.4 kg), but not exceeding 800 lb (363 kg), shall be stored in non portable storage cabinets having walls of at least 1-in (25.4-mm)thickness. Not more than 400 lb (181 kg) may be stored in any one cabinet and cabinets shall be separated by a distance of at least 25 ft (7.63 m) or by a fire partition having a fire resistance of at least 1 hour.

(c) Quantities exceeding 800 lb (363 kg), but not exceeding 5,000 lb (2268 kg), may be stored in a building if the following requirements are met:

1. The warehouse or storage room shall not be accessible to unauthorized personnel.
2. Smokeless propellant shall be stored in nonportable storage cabinets having wood walls at least 1 inc. (25.4 mm) thick and having shelves with no more than 3 ft (0.92 m) separation between shelves.
3. No more than 400 lb (181 kg) shall be stored in any one cabinet.
4. Cabinets shall be located against walls of the storage room or warehouse with at least 40 ft (12.2 m) between cabinets.
5. Separation between cabinets may be reduced to 250 ft (6.1m) if barricades twice the height of the cabinets are attached to the wall, midway between each cabinet. The barricades shall extend at least 10 ft (3m) outward, shall be firmly attached to the wall, and shall be constructed of 1/4-inc. (6.4-mm) boiler plate, 2-in. (51-mm) thick wood, brick, or concrete block.
6. Smokeless propellant shall be separated from materials classified by the U.S. Department of Transportation as flammable liquids, flammable solids, and oxidizing materials by a distance of 25 ft (7.63mm) or by a fire partition having a fire resistance of at least 1 hour.
7. The building shall be protected by an automatic sprinkler system installed accordingly to NFPA 13, Standard for the Installation of Sprinkler Systems..

(d) Smokeless propellants not stored according to (a), (b) and (c) above shall be stored in a Type 4 magazine constructed and located according to Chapter 6.
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